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Better Living Through Chemistry Discussions of any and all sorts of mind-warping chemicals, pills, booze, mind machines, trippy stuff, current street prices, importing pharmaceuticals, smart drugs, nutrients, herbs, and altered states. Please try to keep your conversations "theoretical" in nature, since this is an open conference.

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 #1 
Old 2008-12-25, 09:13
Regular
 
Hawaii
Default Thoughts on THC

After successfully attempting many different solvent and natural extractions from QWISO to BHO to ice water and everything in between throughout my marijuana-smoking career, I have always been in a constant quest and search to get as stoned as possible(isn't this logic for everyone?)

(No sources for the following opinions, no research done, this all seems theoretical at the moment, open for discussion, editing and feedback)

Although I am well aware that THC is not the only goodie in marijuana, I'm not sure which chemicals are pulled at which points. In this writeup, I'm assuming that THC is being isolated to purify.. There are many things I am clueless about.., Like I said, no research.

..but, I think It's safe to say that;

average purity of good buds = 40% THC
average purity of extractions = 60% THC

I don't live in the land of the free, but I know that "Budder"(no, not bud butter) claims to be the most potent THC solution possible, being roughly 90% pure.
First of all, I can't verify that. Second of all, I know factually that their Budder = High quality feedstock BHO extraction evaporated, then whipped on a low temperature causing oxidization to rid the butane residue(if any) and moreso, the leftover impurities after BHO.

average purity of "Budder" = 90% THC

Knowing these above(with personal experience) as basic background information, but with very little actual chemistry experience, I'm going to assume that one could perform a more efficient extraction to get highest possible purity.

Theoretically, I could see (any) product, from shake to bud to budder and even pipe resin(!) giving a highest purity yield.

I know that THC is soluble in ice water many different NP solutions.

I'd think that a simple process like this could yield better purity than "Budder".

-Ice water*(or cold denatured alcohol) soaked and stirred into product then filtered. Solution left in freezer till THC settles. Water(or d-alcohol) is decanted..

-Impure THC is covered in NP. Solution is heated, but not enough to fume NP or vaporize THC. Solution is stirred well. Filtered 3x..

-Put back on heat. Muriatic acid is added dropwise slowly and stirred, while boiling(just enough heat, but always under THC vaporization point) until basic..

-Once room temperature, twice the amount ice cold dh2o slush is added and stirred in. Two layers form. Aqueous layer seperated..

-THC solution filtered one last time, then set out to evaporate, while what was caught on the filter is cleaned up once again, and dried....

With a few changes or additions to this procedure, I am theoretically assuming that 99-99.9% THC will be remaining with little to no other contaminants. Chlorophyll completely gone, the resinous glues that give trichomes their looks should be dimished... Any use of solvents based away with murry boil.... dh2o was the only chem used after murry boil, so this THC extraction is not natural, but "natural".

-average purity of above extraction = 99% THC

Are my assumptions correct.., or am I completely off?

My dad always told me that making an assumption makes an ass out of... yeah, you know the deal.

I'm curious what the appearance of final evaporated solution would be... A white powder? THC hasn't specifically been isolated..., or has it?

...Just imagine doing above extraction with the oxidized BHO... :O
(if possible in the first place, of course)
 #2 
Old 2008-12-25, 10:00
Regular
 
Inside the green box
Default Re: Thoughts on THC

THC is a cool guy. He showed me a pack of Japanese Marlboros in irc the other night.
 #3 
Old 2008-12-25, 13:09
incorporated incorporated is offline
Regular
 
Default Re: Thoughts on THC

Why do you keep assuming THC is water soluble? It's not very water soluble at all, especially not in cold water. That's like high school chemistry right there, if it's dissolved easily by NP's, water is not what you want.

Also, good buds are not 40% THC/any other cannabinoid.

Also,
-Put back on heat. Muriatic acid is added dropwise slowly and stirred, while boiling(just enough heat, but always under THC vaporization point) until basic..

Schwot?

Also,
but with very little actual chemistry experience, I'm going to assume that one could perform a more efficient extraction to get highest possible purity.

No.
 #4 
Old 2008-12-25, 13:26
Regular
 
Default Re: Thoughts on THC

THC is fat soluble i think, so it will absorb into alcohol. Then evaporate the alcohol?
 #5 
Old 2008-12-25, 15:21
Von Bass Von Bass is offline
Regular
 
Default Re: Thoughts on THC

Now if THC were water / polar solvent soluble, how would a water cure work? Wikipedia quotes its solubility in water as being 2.8mg/l, at 23 degrees... THC is hard enough to get to dissolve into NPs, you want something really non polar; pentane, butane etc, or something like a fat or glycerin.

Alcohol is a fairly polar molecule, note OH on the end. It will therefore be difficult to get cannabinoids to dissolve into.

Having THC 'settle out' in a freezer wouldn't work. Especially seen as though the water would probably ... freeze.

Muriatic acid is an acid, and will therefore not make the pH, especially of a non polar solvent, basic. It would make it acidic, if it were water.

I recommend you run a couple of BHO extractions, then work on column chromatography from there.
 #6 
Old 2008-12-25, 20:06
fretbuzz fretbuzz is offline
Regular
 
Default Re: Thoughts on THC

your best buds are going to fall between 15 and 25%

isn't this what they do in butane extractions where they let the butane boil off?
 #7 
Old 2008-12-26, 13:03
36fuckin5 36fuckin5 is offline
Regular
 
Default Re: Thoughts on THC

Chloroform FTW.

LT would help you out a lot more here.
 #8 
Old 2008-12-26, 13:45
Regular
 
Scotland
Default Re: Thoughts on THC

I was thinking something like this:
get a nice big jar, put it in an ice bath to precool it and discharge a can or two of butane into it so it's pretty much full of liquid, put in some high-THC feedstock like hash or potent bud ground up as small as you can, put quite a bit in to get it from all of it, then put it in a decent freezer overnight (butane boils at -0.5C so a cold enough freezer should keep it liquid) to make sure it's all dissolved, then pour what's left through a very small filter of <100 µm to get out as much of what's not dissolved as you can .. discard the solids .. Keeping it as cannabinoids dissolved in butane (could use a small peltier etc to keep it liquid), pour into salted precooled water to get any crap that's soluble in water, then pour the butane/cannabinoid mix into a conical-bottomed container, evaporate butane .. once the butane's evaporated dissolve in ethanol and put into a flask for heating, boil off all ethanol/still dissolved butane ..

Should be reasonably pure, at least for further processing :P

But tbh, beyond a certain point it's not really worth the effort/money to purify it more, just use a little more ..
 #9 
Old 2008-12-26, 14:00
Von Bass Von Bass is offline
Regular
 
Default Re: Thoughts on THC

I was thinking something like this: snip

Good idea, but I imagine there wouldn't really be much of a difference in the quality or respective THC solubility if you used an alkane like heptane rather than butane.

Pure pentane will still evaporate off quickly and easily, trust me on that one, but I'd think hexane might be slightly better for solubility, its still only one CH2 longer. It also has the advantage of staying liquid at room temperature, thus meaning you can undergo your THC extraction at conditions other than below ~-2 degrees. It might well be an ideal extraction & experiment for a long soxhlet session, especially seen as though pentanes BP is well below the decomposition points of various cannabinoids that I can see.

As you say though, the difficulty of undertaking an extraction designed to extract pure a cannabinoid fraction would just not be worth it if all you want to do is get high. The standard BHO or oil/glycerin extraction is obviously your friend there :)
 
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