This is about bodies, not humanitarian issues

I opened February's Marie Claire today, and flicked to the editors page where they print some of the letters they've recieved about the previous issue and its articles. ( http://www.marieclaire.co.uk )

The first words to hit me were 'role model' and 'celebrity', amongst the rest of the others you can guess.

"I was so pleased to see America Ferrera on your December cover. I am a size 16, and America, who isn't your typical size-zero celebrity, gives hope to all of us real women with curves.
Hollywood and the media need to realise what they're doing to young people - five girls I went to school with are now battling with eating disorders. America is someone who I look to as a role model, and I hope that when I have children there will be more women like her in the media for them to admire."

- Becky Alchin, Croydon

( http://images.askmen.com/galleries/actress/america-ferrera/pictures/america-ferrera-picture-1.jpg this is America Ferrera, who plays Betty Suarez in 'Ugly Betty')

America Ferrera is just one of the dozens of female celebrities hailed as this 'new role model' for women. I hope they just mean sizewise. She hasn't done any great moral deed, she has merely let herself be photographed and interviewed in regards to her job as an actress. She wants this - she also is capable of making her own decisions regarding her diet and levels of exercise, and how much she wishes to acknowledge the 'skinny' hype.

http://guanabee.com/Ferrera_Glamour_09_04_07.jpg

Photoshopped. The fat has been taken out from under her arms, they've sculpted her a more defined waist, defined her collar bones, flattened her stomach out...and given her the 'lollipop head' so often styled by model Sophie Dahl after her breakneck voyage into size 8 from 12.
Having seen sites like this http://www.judgmentofparis.com , which look perfectly innocent and well meaning, actually unearth a deep discomfort inside. It's just weird. Have a look if you have time.

I think the problem I have with all of this is the absolute bitchiness of these 'empowered women', writing in about larger celebrities and slating anyone under a size 10. I take serious issue with this.

-

Two bodies are never the same - with the exception of identical twins, even then, they have their own minds on their shoulders. What gives these people the right to think they can say who is and who isn't a 'real woman'? What on earth are naturally slim girls, girls with health problems, other than women just like our villains? I do not think being 20lbs heavier than someone gives them any moral highground, whatsoever.

I think a common misconception is that women diet, dress, and groom 'for' men, I disagree with this, it is much more complicated than that. Women dress for women- it gives them a place in the female hierarchy that's been created, and it denotes who is 'queen bee'.
High fashion models and mens pin ups are rarely the same people. Jessica Alba, Alessandra Ambrosio, Angelina Jolie, Adriana Lima...compare those to Euginia Volodina, Julia Stegner, Alek Wek Gemma Ward, all models for their own unique look. It's much more about being able to carry it off with who you are rather than what size you are. Thats a whole different story however.

This is not a 'do you like fat girls' thread, at all. This is to hopefully give you a different slant on the issue.

What gets me is that these women would get so extremely offended if a 'skinny' girl started publicly dissing their weight or size, and it would be hailed as a 'horrific crime against your fellow woman' - but that is just what they are doing to the slimmer girls. They have no right to say this, they are acting like bitchy little girls. I always make a point of this when I hear someone wax lyrical about this in public. People make their own choices about their weight and size, even though this can be difficult for people in some stages of life, but not forever. We are all 'real' people. Size 6 or size 16. The size 16 consumer has her own natural weight inclination, just as the size 6 consumer does. They can change their weight up and down the scale all they like, and it should not be accepted as okay to knock anyone for it.

Personally, I have always been self conscious about my body. I developed early in contrast to my peers, who took another year or two for their hips and boobs to grow. I am now 5'1", UK size 6-8, US size 2-4. 32DD bra size, shoe size 5. People ask me if my breasts are 'real', am I wearing a padded bra, all this bollocks. No I'm not, yes by breasts are real, and I am not apologising for any of it! I am genetically inclined to look like I do, as is everyone. People should not be given a 'tag' in society based on their bodies, it is all sorts of wrong.

What are these people trying to achieve exactly? My inner bitch says that they are trying to make themselves feel better because they've been unhappy about their bodies in the past, or something. Alot of the press gets directed at mothers who have had drastic weight changes (either way) after giving birth. Where it might not be healthy at all to plummet down two dress sizes after pregnancy ( at all!), it is as much a 'valid' decision as eating to a few clothes sizes up. The general concensus is that suddenly being a mother means you have a right to be 10lbs overweight, that you've earnt it. If you think that, fine, so do alot of people. I personally think that being your healthy optimum weight is always more desirable than being under or over too much. This is what I strive for in my own life.

My own mother stayed the same size as she was when she was 18 after she had my sister and myself, and was just like all the other women in our family - small, slim, blonde, blue eyed. She was like that until she was 45 or so. She ate what she wanted, and exercised. She got alot of bitchiness from other mothers for being a toned size 10, and I think that the attitude towards it is sickening. She was not without her problems at all - she suffered from depression, and was ill with PND (Post Natal Depression) following the birth of my sister. In her case, she didn't gain weight as a result of this, but a lot of people do. I think sometimes people should just accept that it is unfortunate that they have yo-yo'ed in weight, but it is mainly dictated by our genetic makeup. We do have a choice, but we are a fully written program. You wouldn't slate someone for having black hair, or blonde hair, so why size, taking this into account?


I am so sick of reading these harsh judgements by 'real women'. We see it everywhere - on TV, in newspapers, on the train, everywhere. We, as people are so quick to judge -

"Oh isn't she skinny? She must be anorexic",

"Oh isn't she fat, she must have an overeating disorder"

- what? These hypothetical girls could be cousins, and it wouldn't make a difference. They might have lost a friend or family member, something else entirely might be going on in their lives, and their weight has taken a back seat. What if they heard them say this? It could be the grain of rice that tips the scale.
When my mother had cancer, I ended up very dangerously ill after not even thinking about eating. It was likely my mother was going to die, I wasn't really thinking about how I looked in 'those jeans' or whatever. My mother didn't die. I got better, and I look back at myself then and see how oblivious I was to how I looked.
Please, before you say anything about someone being too fat, too skinny, whatever - remember that 'real women' are PEOPLE. They're all real people. At the heart of every real person, there is a fragile soul. While we hope for the best circumstances in our lives, some things are predetermined ( genetics) and cannot be helped. We all hope that people will show us kindness in everyday life, but especially when we are in need. If that means one gossip keeping their mouth shut that day and saving some distress and shame, even though no one will ever know it, then it is a very positive thing.

You're more than a clothes size. You're a real woman, you're a real man - but at the heart of this you are a real person. Don't be so quick to judge! Fat or thin, average, struggling, critical...we're all people. We need to be kind to each other.

That's a lotta words about bitches who like to eat...

I suppose the major problem with this, is that impressionable girls are at the mercy of the media.

The only reason why such fanaticism is practised in regards to physical appearance is because it makes a statement about our position on the totem pole. The criteria for this has changed significantly over the last few centuries. For instance once upon a time being a larger woman was considered desirable, yet now it is the waif thin look. Ok, I think i was digressing a bit.

The point i'm making is that most people rather than bettering themselves they will attempt to take everyone else down a notch to make themselves feel better about themselves. It is one of the core facets of the human condition. In an ideal world everyone would be happy with their bodies as they are and if not work to better themselves not based on external influences but on their own initiative.

Great post Wires......PLUS MUTHA FUCKIN TEN THOUSAND! 10000+!!!!!

Just to add one other thing......moreso in regard to girls critiquing other girls. Also stop gossiping about what other girls are DOING with those bodies......and casting judgement on who/when/how often/how soon they are sleeping with guys. Females are incredibly catty in all of that too, and you all know damn well what I mean. Men generally don't dog other men about their sexual preferences or timetables, unless it gets in the way of something, kinda like......."Fuckin dude missed this ballgame just to date her......". Beyond that, we really don't care. Whereas females just rip each other to shreds casting judgement. Back to all of that "breaking down others to feel better about themselves" aspect that both Wires and Ronin discussed. If women made a better attempt at NURTURING each other instead of clawing and biting.....not as many of you would have such emotional problems.

Good thread, wires.

I dont care too much about the celebs and what they're throwing up this month. I dont care much for the likes of victoria beckham and her skeletal legs and ridiculously huge fake boobs.
What I do care about is the fact that people,women for the most part, can say things like "ew, look at her, she's so thin! It's disgusting!" but at the same time they're criticise how that woman may look,they're still lapping up every article about that woman, ever bit of 'celeb gossip' and frantically trying to immiatate that womans look.
Which kind of proves that being thin....works.

I am now US size 2-4. 32DD bra size


Bull fucking shit.

I suppose the major problem with this, is that impressionable girls are at the mercy of the media.

This. Too many girls see skinny celebrities and think that they need to look like them in order to be successful. By showing 'real' women that actually have curves, girls realize that it's ok to have a little fat and that they don't need to have a perfect body just to get a guy to like them.

Great post Wires......PLUS MUTHA FUCKIN TEN THOUSAND! 10000+!!!!!

Good thread, wires.

I agree. So much so I'm stickying it for a bit.

Bull fucking shit.

Lol, exactly.

I could care less whether people are insulting others or not, the only thing I dislike about all of these shenanigans is the hypocrisy of it all. If a woman feels the media is wrong in portraying women as having to be extremely thin in order to attract men, then it is just as wrong for the woman to talk down upon someone for having a different body type. In the former, the media simply wants to make women insecure so as to buy more of their product. In the latter, the women in question are trying to feel better about themselves by berating thin women. I must say I respect the former position much more, as they are actually trying and succeeding to make money through non-criminal means, which is admirable.

In the former, the media simply wants to make women insecure so as to buy more of their product.

QFT.

The unfortunate thing about this is that it not only applies to women but men also. Eg. Penis Growth Supplements, Muscle Growth Supplements, Hair Plugs, etc. Unfortunately for consumers this type of products have no real market so they rely on creating their own demand through perpetrating the idea, "You are flawed, You are unhappy about yourself" and selling their product as the miracle cure. Quite sad really.

Muscle Growth Supplements

Don't want to get off topic, but unlike penis growth stuff, muscle growth supplements are actually developed and reviewed so as to work as intended...Most guys that I know that are into working out are either doing it for sports, health, or a few rare ones for my reasons(military preparation).

This. Too many girls see skinny celebrities and think that they need to look like them in order to be successful. By showing 'real' women that actually have curves, girls realize that it's ok to have a little fat and that they don't need to have a perfect body just to get a guy to like them.

The reason women do this isn't so any guy will like them, 90% of women regardless of shape or size at some point have had a guy interested in them. The reason women do it is so "mr right tall dark and handsome" will like them. The same thing is true for many guys who bulk up or buy penis enhancements, they don't want any girl to like them, they want the pretty thin girl to like them. The media and consumption system plays on peoples basic instincts really, if it wasn't like that then all the dieting, penis enhancement, muscle related, boob implants, etc wouldn't survive on the market.

what the fuck kind of name is america ferrerra. she should be shot just for having such a stupid name.

[U]I am now 5'1", UK size 6-8, US size 2-4. 32DD bra size, shoe size 5.

You know the drill.

how does this deserve a sticky??? thats bullshit. the downfall of totse is that the mods are fucking idiots.

I see what you're getting at, but I think the point they're trying to get out there is that its OK to NOT be a size 6-8 - unlike what hollywood seems to expect of a lot of its women. I don't think they're so much bashing women who are naturally skinny, but 'bashing' women who aren't themselves and take unhealthy risks to be that small. You can often tell apart a women who is naturally skinny, and one that is unhealthy skinny - the skin is a dead give away.
The social pressures that women face to conform are disgusting, but it's so hard often not to and ultimately this turns into women critising other women.


BTW, I'm the opposite to you wires, I get contrasting comments/abuse.

Great post.

For you noobs, this is what totse used to be like all the time.

My girlfriend's 5'10" and 125 or so. I would not want her to be a different size. I mean, I'd feel the same way if she was bigger or smaller, but I think she's perfect. Fat chicks disgust me, but meat and bones is just as bad. She's also really muscular, so the 125 is carried well. Hell, Laila Ali is 5'10" and 175 and still rocking a badass bod.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/16/19825604_a6f585d1c4.jpg

[I am now 5'1", UK size 6-8, US size 2-4. 32DD bra size, shoe size 5.

You're exactly the same size as a friend of mine... She's a smokin' hottie...

Also, good thread! That same friend of mine is the subject of endless jealous bitching, all of it from "real women".

WAY too long/didn't read

But from skimming over, fat is unattractive, just as overly skinny (annorexic/bulemic/whatever) is.

There is an ideal form for man and woman. I'm sick of seeing/hearing people justifying otherwise.

If you're too fat, exercise and eat healthy, get liposuction, whatever, just realize that you are not 'normal'.

If you're too skinny, eat some fatty foods, fuck, I don't know. That must to be the easiest problem to deal with in the history of humanity.

I used to be fat. Still kinda am. Do I try to justify it? NO. That's fucking pathetic. Excess fat = unhealthy.

God, how can you type so much about something that is so fucking simple.

BE HEALTHY.

You're more than a clothes size. You're a real woman, you're a real man - but at the heart of this you are a real person. Don't be so quick to judge! Fat or thin, average, struggling, critical...we're all people. We need to be kind to each other.

Yeah, of course I'm not going to be a dick to anyone whom I don't deem as physically attractive. It takes a really fucked up kind of person to do that.

But there's no fucking way I'm ever getting romantically involved with someone that doesn't turn me on sexually. I'm pretty sure that's the norm, anyway.

I have a set view of what I see as physically attractive (probably not too far off from the average male perceptive), and I'm very conservative about swaying on those values.

Somehow, I expected this thread to be about the real sex dolls.

Lol.1morechar

i only read like 1 and a half paragraphs, but i understand your point an i agree with it.

fat chick get the fuck out
skinny chick get the fuck out.

slim and/or girls with a little cushion meet at my house friday night

ps.dont name your kid after a country or state ..unless its USSR

ps.dont name your kid after a country or state ..unless its USSR

FUck you. I happen to like my daughter's name.

Afghanistan.

I seriously can't read all that.

People need to stop fucking obsessing over their image and catering to those who thrive on the debate.

I actually read all that.

I don't like size 0 girls that much and I sure as hell don't like fat chicks. A little weight I don't mind - I mean it takes a lot of work to get a good body and I realise that many people just don't have the motivation to keep trying to get it.


Just found a quote from Aristotle:
“Beauty implies a good-sized body, and little people may be neat and well-proportioned, but cannot be beautiful.”

Make of that what you will.

Found this too: “[A] young woman with a very full bust came briskly out of the door…she noticed that she was attracting everybody’s attention, and that pleased her…As soon as she appeared, the eyes of all the men in the court turned her way, and remained fixed on her white face, her sparklingly-brilliant eyes and the swelling bosom…all that was good in the world was for her. And it seemed to him that Katusha was aware that it was all for her when he looked at her well-shaped figure, the tucked white dress, the wrapt, joyous expression of her face…the developed figure, the fulness of the bosom and lower part of the face…She was an attractive woman, and therefore she was an important and necessary person. The whole of her former and present life was a confirmation of the correctness of this conception.…Whenever she was alone [she] again and again pulled the photograph partly out of the envelope and looked at it admiringly…and could not cease from admiring especially herself.”

ps.dont name your kid after a country or state ..unless its USSR

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbie_Hoffman#Personal_life

"They had one child, america Hoffman, deliberately named using a small "a" to indicate both patriotism and non-jingoistic intent"

Most of you people either didn't read the first post or misinterpreted it. This isn't about whether or not you find skinny or fat bitches attractive. If Wires is to be beleived she is a natural beauty, and she feels she is being unfairly judged by other women because of it. To her, other women are judging her saying she must do xyz to maintain that size, whereas it is actually something she couldn't really help if she tried, it is natural for her, and she wants other women to stop saying shit that aint tru yo!.

My response, suck it up you weak bitch. It must be difficult being blessed with genes that make maintaining an attractive body, something so many people struggle with, virtually effortless. Life wasn't meant to be easy, and the fat bitch who has never had a boyfriend at 27, just as much a victim of their genetic makeup as you, has it much much harder.

In human society, for better or worse, majority rules. America is getting fatter, and naturally skinny people are slowly becoming a minority, so I can only recommend preparing yourself for it to get worse. But at the end of the day, you'll still be one of the beautiful people.

or course skinny bitches are attractive.

id fuck jennifer love hewitt all day an night long.

shes got tits ands ass

she=real woman

I laughed for at least a minute straight before I could read the rest of the thread. And then for another good thirty seconds after I scrolled back up to quote you.

i do agree with the message that you are trying to get across, but why is this sticked?

You need to understand that being any stereotype is difficult, and some things can't be helped and just 'are'. I do not feel sorry for beautiful girls, I do not feel sorry for unattractive girls, they just are like that. I do not feel any better being me.

Has it much harder? You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, I shall turn your comment around and call YOU the 'weak bitch'. Being size x and other xyz'ds do not mean life is easier for anyone. I think you, though you think otherwise, are just as bad as the people I was writing about. You can't think for a second what it's like to be someone else, truly. Don't try and tell me about life.

Has it much harder? You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, I shall turn your comment around and call YOU the 'weak bitch'. Being size x and other xyz'ds do not mean life is easier for anyone. I think you, though you think otherwise, are just as bad as the people I was writing about. You can't think for a second what it's like to be someone else, truly. Don't try and tell me about life.

Uhhh, I am neither agreeing with or disagreeing with Garrett's position, but I would like to know what reasons you are giving for this flippant post. He gave fairly solid arguments, you are just insulting him.

I agree.

By their standards, I'm not considered a real woman. I'm 5'10 and between 120 and 130.

My doctor says I'm healthy, besides smoking. I also don't take pride in my body, nor am I ashamed of it. It is the way it is. So I fail to see the issue with this, yet to anybody bigger than me, I'm not a real person.

Stupid people like that should probably just stay away from the media.

You need to understand that being any stereotype is difficult, and some things can't be helped and just 'are'. I do not feel sorry for beautiful girls, I do not feel sorry for unattractive girls, they just are like that. I do not feel any better being me.

Has it much harder? You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, I shall turn your comment around and call YOU the 'weak bitch'. Being size x and other xyz'ds do not mean life is easier for anyone. I think you, though you think otherwise, are just as bad as the people I was writing about. You can't think for a second what it's like to be someone else, truly. Don't try and tell me about life.

Oh I understand that you have problems, some of them are caused by looking the way you do, but on the spectrum of problems that arise as a result of how you look, the problems that arise because you are really good looking are nowhere near as large as the problems that arise from being deemed unattractive.

"Being size x and other xyz'ds do not mean life is easier for anyone." "I do not feel sorry for unattractive girls, they just are like that." What I take from these comments is, you have problems and hate being judged, blach blah blah, but you cannot see that even though you have some downside for being the way you are, these problems are far less than the problems other people not as genetically blessed as yourself are facing.

Either you don't realise that you have it 'relatively' easy compared to some people, in which case it is you who is incapable of looking through another persons eyes, or you do realise that you have benefits in some areas but you just can't deal with the comparitevely small hardships that come from being beautiful - and if that isn't the definition of weakness I don't know what is.

Because if the point you're trying to get across is that you have it just as tough as the bitch who exercises, eats right, but genetically is 250 pounds, well you'll have to do alot better to convince me.

Oh I understand that you have problems, some of them are caused by looking the way you do, but on the spectrum of problems that arise as a result of how you look, the problems that arise because you are really good looking are nowhere near as large as the problems that arise from being deemed unattractive.

"Being size x and other xyz'ds do not mean life is easier for anyone." "I do not feel sorry for unattractive girls, they just are like that." What I take from these comments is, you have problems and hate being judged, blach blah blah, but you cannot see that even though you have some downside for being the way you are, these problems are far less than the problems other people not as genetically blessed as yourself are facing.

Either you don't realise that you have it 'relatively' easy compared to some people, in which case it is you who is incapable of looking through another persons eyes, or you do realise that you have benefits in some areas but you just can't deal with the comparitevely small hardships that come from being beautiful - and if that isn't the definition of weakness I don't know what is.

Because if the point you're trying to get across is that you have it just as tough as the bitch who exercises, eats right, but genetically is 250 pounds, well you'll have to do alot better to convince me.

Yeah I do see what you mean. You said that well
however, with just me as one person, there are a whole load of issues that come under the umbrella of 'what I look like'. I am being treated for body dysmorphic disorder, which is just BLAHHH

Well I dont have time to read your whole post but I agree with what your saying. This is like saying sure, be fat as hell no one cares. They thing is its bad for your body and fat women always feel bad about their weight. There negative body image causes more discomfort than resisting an extra piece of cake. Kind of like a cigarrette smoker who is developing a smokers cough. They know it causes more problem than its worth they're just to damn unmotivated to do anything about it.

EDIT: Also they show skinny women because there attractive. People are more likely to buy a product associated with a hot girl. Its just marketing.

The reason women do this isn't so any guy will like them, 90% of women regardless of shape or size at some point have had a guy interested in them. The reason women do it is so "mr right tall dark and handsome" will like them.

I disagree with this. To a certain extent anyway.
Yes women dress a certain way to get men interested in them, but I've found (as a woman) that the majority of women dress, act and eat the way they do to intimidate other women.
It's quite frightening how much we really dislike eachother.

They gotta have some meat, no1 wants to fuck skeletor

Fuckin right!

i forgot to add she also has actual hip.

that dont just go straight down like a dude

http://thesuperficial.com/2007/10/1015_jennifer_love_hewitt_gala_09.jpg
notice the large,natural tits.
you cant get mad when gravity takes control.
plus when your older than 15 your gonna want the extra bounce

you also have to realize cellulite is just gonna part of life.
it actually has nothing to do being fat,it actually happens after puberty
http://thesuperficial.com/2007/11/1128_jennifer_love_hewitt_bikini_01.jpg
...dont you bout you but id hit that

Get off the high horse faggot....

My girlfriend's 5'10" and 125 or so. I would not want her to be a different size. I mean, I'd feel the same way if she was bigger or smaller, but I think she's perfect. Fat chicks disgust me, but meat and bones is just as bad. She's also really muscular, so the 125 is carried well. Hell, Laila Ali is 5'10" and 175 and still rocking a badass bod.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/16/19825604_a6f585d1c4.jpg

Yeah, get back to me when she isn't working out every day....

WAY too long/didn't read

But from skimming over, fat is unattractive, just as overly skinny (annorexic/bulemic/whatever) is.

There is an ideal form for man and woman. I'm sick of seeing/hearing people justifying otherwise.

If you're too fat, exercise and eat healthy, get liposuction, whatever, just realize that you are not 'normal'.

If you're too skinny, eat some fatty foods, fuck, I don't know. That must to be the easiest problem to deal with in the history of humanity.

I used to be fat. Still kinda am. Do I try to justify it? NO. That's fucking pathetic. Excess fat = unhealthy.

God, how can you type so much about something that is so fucking simple.

BE HEALTHY.

Excess fat does not mean you are unhealthy, and liposuction is the last resort you should ever take into consideration when trying to lose weight, or slim up.

Simple? You practically got everything wrong...

FUck you. I happen to like my daughter's name.

Afghanistan.

Yours daughter's name probably sucks.

You need to understand that being any stereotype is difficult, and some things can't be helped and just 'are'. I do not feel sorry for beautiful girls, I do not feel sorry for unattractive girls, they just are like that. I do not feel any better being me.

Has it much harder? You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, I shall turn your comment around and call YOU the 'weak bitch'. Being size x and other xyz'ds do not mean life is easier for anyone. I think you, though you think otherwise, are just as bad as the people I was writing about. You can't think for a second what it's like to be someone else, truly. Don't try and tell me about life.

You're coming off like a real idiot here...don't tell you about life? Why is that? Are you God? Do you know everything? Probably not because the majority of this main entry is filled with garbled bullshit from a "5'1" size 2 - 4 32DD" titted bitch.

What the fuck DO YOU know about other people's lives? You don't think life is easier when you're attractive? Lol, stupid bitch. Basic psychology tells us that we automatically cater to attractive people. That is just life, that is the social interactions of shaved apes.

Uhhh, I am neither agreeing with or disagreeing with Garrett's position, but I would like to know what reasons you are giving for this flippant post. He gave fairly solid arguments, you are just insulting him.

She's a bitch. I mean, do I have to put up with stupid bitches like this if they are to be attractive? I'll stick to the average girls then who aren't fucking morons.

I agree.

By their standards, I'm not considered a real woman. I'm 5'10 and between 120 and 130.

My doctor says I'm healthy, besides smoking. I also don't take pride in my body, nor am I ashamed of it. It is the way it is. So I fail to see the issue with this, yet to anybody bigger than me, I'm not a real person.

Stupid people like that should probably just stay away from the media.

Lol? From the media? The fuck are you on about retard...

Yeah I do see what you mean. You said that well
however, with just me as one person, there are a whole load of issues that come under the umbrella of 'what I look like'. I am being treated for body dysmorphic disorder, which is just BLAHHH

Funny, you say you don't show sympathy to other people's problems, yet you throw this bullshit out there to try and earn some type of comfort?

Body dysmorphic disorder? Lol...bitch please.

I disagree with this. To a certain extent anyway.
Yes women dress a certain way to get men interested in them, but I've found (as a woman) that the majority of women dress, act and eat the way they do to intimidate other women.
It's quite frightening how much we really dislike eachother.

No it isn't, you are all competing for a common goal whether you want to admit your hormones drive your actions or not. Which is why women will always work better under a man, then working under a woman. It's social dynamics.

i forgot to add she also has actual hip.

that dont just go straight down like a dude

http://thesuperficial.com/2007/10/1015_jennifer_love_hewitt_gala_09.jpg
notice the large,natural tits.
you cant get mad when gravity takes control.
plus when your older than 15 your gonna want the extra bounce

you also have to realize cellulite is just gonna part of life.
it actually has nothing to do being fat,it actually happens after puberty
http://thesuperficial.com/2007/11/1128_jennifer_love_hewitt_bikini_01.jpg
...dont you bout you but id hit that

Jennifer Love Hewitt is fucking smoking, always has been.

You're the bitch/moron here CarbonB. Stats and measurements don't make a person, thats what I'm saying. I don't feel attractive, but thats besides the point. In my original post I was only using myself as an example.
What do I know about other peoples lives? A good bit actually, but you also wouldn't know if I did or not.
BDD is nothing to be laughed at.

Why is that? Are you God? Do you know everything? Probably not because the majority of this main entry is filled with garbled bullshit from a "5'1" size 2 - 4 32DD" titted bitch.

You plucked this out of nowhere...who is the idiot now? You have no argument here Carbon, you are a sad and bitter little boy.


Also, after re reading this thread again, I send apologies to Garrett, I did come off rather retarded there.

You're the bitch/moron here CarbonB. Stats and measurements don't make a person, thats what I'm saying. I don't feel attractive, but thats besides the point. In my original post I was only using myself as an example.
What do I know about other peoples lives? A good bit actually, but you also wouldn't know if I did or not.
BDD is nothing to be laughed at.

"Stats and measurements don't make a person, thats what I'm saying." Well, it really didn't seem like that was "all" you were saying. Since I remember quoting what you said, and then pointing out the obvious contradictions in your posts. You don't feel attractive, that sounds like a personal problem. You don't think Body Dysmorphic Disorder is something nobody should laugh at, that also to me sounds like a personal issue. Crying on totse about the way you look is the fastest way to get flamed.

So many people have questioned why this is stickied when it's obvious you're a twit with a twat. That's probably been operated on...to have the flaps cut back. Der....

You plucked this out of nowhere...who is the idiot now? You have no argument here Carbon, you are a sad and bitter little boy.


Also, after re reading this thread again, I send apologies to Garrett, I did come off rather retarded there.

I developed early in contrast to my peers, who took another year or two for their hips and boobs to grow. I am now 5'1", UK size 6-8, US size 2-4. 32DD bra size, shoe size 5.

Well look at that....kind of looks like someone didn't even remember what they fucking wrote in that matted up piece of shit called a post. Who's the idiot now? Lol....dear God this bitch is dumb.

Well look at that....kind of looks like someone didn't even remember what they fucking wrote in that matted up piece of shit called a post. Who's the idiot now? Lol....dear God this bitch is dumb.

How about you shut the fuck up and stop ripping into people to boost your own miserable self esteem?

You're a pathetic weak little person, and the sooner that people understand that you're just a cunt and an idiot the better.

How about you shut the fuck up and stop ripping into people to boost your own miserable self esteem?

You're a pathetic weak little person, and the sooner that people understand that you're just a cunt and an idiot the better.

My own miserable self-esteem? Lol, you don't see me on here crying about how I look. What is funny is you chant to me exactly how you feel about yourself.

Pathetic and a weak little person? I'm neither little, weak, or pathetic. Pathetic is the attempt you are making at trying to argue this point. It just shows in reality how weak you are, and how insignificant you feel.

Especially after going around trying to get people to put me on ignore. You're a moderator? Pffff, I question the system that doesn't give closer examinations of dip shits like yourself.

Don't interrupt CarbonB's phat rhymes.

He's spittin' for us.

Hardcore battle raps can't get interrupted.

else these words fall flat
there's no welcome mat
for this daft hoodrat
sad fuck should just nap.

CarbonB's got a point there, the broad is nobody to talk.

BTW in my opinion a woman who eats only when she's hungry (not stuffs her face when she feels "anxiety"), eats fairly well for her body weight, does some kind of daily exercise, WILL BE A SIZE 0-5, depending on your height. And yes, women who are thin are very attractive to 90% of men, while "curvy"and "Voluptuos" are rarely considered very attractive.

My point stands, girls crash diet because their loyalty tilts: on the one side you have tasty junk food on the other you have boys.

My point stands, girls crash diet because their loyalty tilts: on the one side you have tasty junk food on the other you have boys.

What does your point stand on? It's baseless.

What does your point stand on? It's baseless.

That is the base, why the fuck do you think there are so many fat people, because they like to be social rejects, aesthetically displeasing, unhealthy? It's because they have no will power and crappy food can be addictive like anything else.

The point i'm making is that most people rather than bettering themselves they will attempt to take everyone else down a notch to make themselves feel better about themselves. It is one of the core facets of the human condition. In an ideal world everyone would be happy with their bodies as they are and if not work to better themselves not based on external influences but on their own initiative.

This. The whole big is beauty shit seems like a good excuse to me. Sure, some guys like that. But generally speaking, girls who are skinny but not skin&bones are attractive to guys. Read somewhere that average bodyfat or BMI is the most attractive to the opposite sex.

My girlfriend's 5'10" and 125 or so. I would not want her to be a different size. I mean, I'd feel the same way if she was bigger or smaller, but I think she's perfect. Fat chicks disgust me, but meat and bones is just as bad. She's also really muscular, so the 125 is carried well. Hell, Laila Ali is 5'10" and 175 and still rocking a badass bod.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/16/19825604_a6f585d1c4.jpg

I like athletic chicks. Theyre the right size and healthy, what could possibly be bad about that. In other words, I think you're girl is hot. +1 for you

My girlfriend's 5'10" and 125 or so. I would not want her to be a different size. I mean, I'd feel the same way if she was bigger or smaller, but I think she's perfect. Fat chicks disgust me, but meat and bones is just as bad. She's also really muscular, so the 125 is carried well. Hell, Laila Ali is 5'10" and 175 and still rocking a badass bod.


5'10" and 125? She must be a rail.

Does she eat?

At all?

Edit: I'm just jealous, really :(

I like athletic chicks. Theyre the right size and healthy

http://sayswholive.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/serena-williams-denim.jpg

Ooh, baby.

that chick in the OP is a porker. the problem isnt that society realizes thin women are better looking, the problem is women and girls are fucking retards at trying to achieve a better body. instead of working hard they go the lazy, self abusive eating disorder route. fuck them for being idiots, not my fault i dont want to fuck a fatty.

US size 2-4?

What exactly do you think is thin?

You know its harder for women to gain weight, right? There are hormones that cause the body to use fat or muscle as fuel when it's needed, and women have less of the ones that affect fat. Of course, it'll only do that if you're eating right, but even working out at the gym and watching what you eat, its still harder for a woman than a man.

Before you say OMFG NO WOMENZ ARE JUST LAZY BITCHES TRYIN TO MAKE EXCUSES! Think there might be an evolutionary reason that the sex that has to do most of the actual "baby makin" might've developed better fat storage?

US size 2-4?

What exactly do you think is thin?

You know its harder for women to gain weight, right? There are hormones that cause the body to use fat or muscle as fuel when it's needed, and women have less of the ones that affect fat. Of course, it'll only do that if you're eating right, but even working out at the gym and watching what you eat, its still harder for a woman than a man.

Before you say OMFG NO WOMENZ ARE JUST LAZY BITCHES TRYIN TO MAKE EXCUSES! Think there might be an evolutionary reason that the sex that has to do most of the actual "baby makin" might've developed better fat storage?

oh christ, someone thinks they know something. look here chucky, calories consumed vs calories burned is the ONLY measure of weight gain/loss. it is true that women produce far less testosterone than men and will find it much harder to gain muscle mass. during your rambling, babbling post you might have been trying to state that, i have no idea. and this is about lazy bitches. there are reasonable and proven methods for getting and maintaining a healthy body. how many women actually do it? how many women do you see putting up heavy free weights at a gym? eating high protein diets spread out over many small meals? running sprints for a hiit cardio workout? now how many do you see taking the lazy and stupid route of A) nothing or B) starvation, pink dumbbells and endless slow, steady cardio?

oh christ, someone thinks they know something. look here chucky, calories consumed vs calories burned is the ONLY measure of weight gain/loss. it is true that women produce far less testosterone than men and will find it much harder to gain muscle mass. during your rambling, babbling post you might have been trying to state that, i have no idea. and this is about lazy bitches. there are reasonable and proven methods for getting and maintaining a healthy body. how many women actually do it? how many women do you see putting up heavy free weights at a gym? eating high protein diets spread out over many small meals? running sprints for a hiit cardio workout? now how many do you see taking the lazy and stupid route of A) nothing or B) starvation, pink dumbbells and endless slow, steady cardio?

I'm not talking about testosterone, does testosterone have ANYTHING to do with fat being burned as fuel during a workout? No, I didnt think so.

I'm not sure on the exact name of the hormone, but its known that high fat low protein diets cause the release of more of it, which is why they work.

I see quite a few women doing 'the right things' as you described them, the only exception being the HIIT. Maybe thats because I spend alot of time at the gym myself, doing just that (again, exception being the HIIT, but I'm training to do a half marathon in a month or so)! Just because I say its hard for women to lose weight, does not mean I'm chunky.

How cute. Someone thinks they know something.

However, would we all agree to the statement that the vast majority of women would not have serious weight problems if they followed a fairly healthy diet and exercise regimen?

True dat.

I'm not talking about testosterone, does testosterone have ANYTHING to do with fat being burned as fuel during a workout? No, I didnt think so.

I'm not sure on the exact name of the hormone, but its known that high fat low protein diets cause the release of more of it, which is why they work.

I see quite a few women doing 'the right things' as you described them, the only exception being the HIIT. Maybe thats because I spend alot of time at the gym myself, doing just that (again, exception being the HIIT, but I'm training to do a half marathon in a month or so)! Just because I say its hard for women to lose weight, does not mean I'm chunky.

How cute. Someone thinks they know something.

who really cares about fat burning during exercise? the majority of energy is used during the rest of the day, not during a routine workout. thats why hiit and heavy resistance training works so well, you deplete glycogen storage and raise your metabolism for hours afterwards. but hey, you know about a hormone that you cant remember. also, if you go to a gym where the majority of women are using heavy weights for compound exercises and low reps you are in a highly unusual gym.

who really cares about fat burning during exercise? the majority of energy is used during the rest of the day, not during a routine workout. thats why hiit and heavy resistance training works so well, you deplete glycogen storage and raise your metabolism for hours afterwards. but hey, you know about a hormone that you cant remember. also, if you go to a gym where the majority of women are using heavy weights for compound exercises and low reps you are in a highly unusual gym.

Unless there's some reason you should know them, like taking a class or something of the sort, most hormones have semi obscure medical names that mean very little to most people.

but..

http://www.medpagetoday.com/PrimaryCare/DietNutrition/tb/5867

That sounds about right.

Most women at my gym use the machines, but I go to my local YMCA where touching a freeweight as a female earns you stares and odd looks from anyone who looks like they might have a penis. And that includes some of the people with boobs.

MY point was, it is hard to lose weight. Not impossible, I lost ~40 pounds last year, but now I just cant seem to get the last 10-15 off, doing the same damn thing I did before. Its easy to spout off "CALORIES IN < CALORIES OUT = WEIGHT LOSS" but there are other factors to that equation too.

Obviously, like you said, most of your calories dont come off while working out. So how do you know how many calories you're burning? Well, there are plenty of online calculators, but alot of them give you different info. I've been told I should be eating from 1200 to 2000 calories a day, not too confusing there, eh?

Unless there's some reason you should know them, like taking a class or something of the sort, most hormones have semi obscure medical names that mean very little to most people.

but..

http://www.medpagetoday.com/PrimaryCare/DietNutrition/tb/5867

That sounds about right.

Most women at my gym use the machines, but I go to my local YMCA where touching a freeweight as a female earns you stares and odd looks from anyone who looks like they might have a penis. And that includes some of the people with boobs.

MY point was, it is hard to lose weight. Not impossible, I lost ~40 pounds last year, but now I just cant seem to get the last 10-15 off, doing the same damn thing I did before. Its easy to spout off "CALORIES IN < CALORIES OUT = WEIGHT LOSS" but there are other factors to that equation too.

Obviously, like you said, most of your calories dont come off while working out. So how do you know how many calories you're burning? Well, there are plenty of online calculators, but alot of them give you different info. I've been told I should be eating from 1200 to 2000 calories a day, not too confusing there, eh?

so thats your magical hormone eh? jesus... you dont even know what you are reading do you?

now the truth comes out. at your gym(s) women do the lazy ass machine routine. shocking really.

I lost ~40 pounds last year, but now I just cant seem to get the last 10-15 off, doing the same damn thing I did before.

wow, no fucking way! who would have thought that youve reached a plateau because your body has become accustomed to doing the same thing over and over? who would possibly guess that doing things the easy way (and believe me, the human body is a master of adjusting to do things the most efficient way possible) would start to give lesser results? guess youll have to *gasp* learn a little something about working out and change up your routine in order to tax your body with something it isnt used to. my god, who could have ever figured that out?

Its easy to spout off "CALORIES IN < CALORIES OUT = WEIGHT LOSS" but there are other factors to that equation too.

no, there arent. when it comes down to it, calories in < calories out will ALWAYS result in weight loss. did you not pay attention in school or what? and whats this 1200-2000 calorie nonsense? thats quite a wide range. get your basal metabolic rate calculated and knock off 5-10%. dont use one of those online calculators, go get hooked up to the mask.

..............................you're so laaaaaame....................

CarbonB's got a point there, the broad is nobody to talk.

BTW in my opinion a woman who eats only when she's hungry (not stuffs her face when she feels "anxiety"), eats fairly well for her body weight, does some kind of daily exercise, WILL BE A SIZE 0-5, depending on your height. And yes, women who are thin are very attractive to 90% of men, while "curvy"and "Voluptuos" are rarely considered very attractive.

My point stands, girls crash diet because their loyalty tilts: on the one side you have tasty junk food on the other you have boys.

Trust me, lots of men like "curvy" and "voluptuous" (Spellcheck yourself next time before being ignorant.) women.

That is the base, why the fuck do you think there are so many fat people, because they like to be social rejects, aesthetically displeasing, unhealthy? It's because they have no will power and crappy food can be addictive like anything else.

Wow, you know zero about nutrition and how it effects people on the national level. Are you retarded? The United States is built on catering to people and purposefully getting them addicted to food, and encouraging them to take pills instead of workout.

Trust me, if you had insurance to where you could go to a gym and get personal training to get physically fit, America would be on the right step to getting in shape on a national level. On top of that, provide some real regulation of the food industry for god sakes, they're serving us garbage.

Junk that kills us, and is made so "corporations" can profit off minimal spending. Blah....

US size 2-4?

What exactly do you think is thin?

You know its harder for women to gain weight, right? There are hormones that cause the body to use fat or muscle as fuel when it's needed, and women have less of the ones that affect fat. Of course, it'll only do that if you're eating right, but even working out at the gym and watching what you eat, its still harder for a woman than a man.

Before you say OMFG NO WOMENZ ARE JUST LAZY BITCHES TRYIN TO MAKE EXCUSES! Think there might be an evolutionary reason that the sex that has to do most of the actual "baby makin" might've developed better fat storage?

Ever seen a woman in a concentration camp with low food stores? Point proven.

so thats your magical hormone eh? jesus... you dont even know what you are reading do you?

now the truth comes out. at your gym(s) women do the lazy ass machine routine. shocking really.



wow, no fucking way! who would have thought that youve reached a plateau because your body has become accustomed to doing the same thing over and over? who would possibly guess that doing things the easy way (and believe me, the human body is a master of adjusting to do things the most efficient way possible) would start to give lesser results? guess youll have to *gasp* learn a little something about working out and change up your routine in order to tax your body with something it isnt used to. my god, who could have ever figured that out?



no, there arent. when it comes down to it, calories in < calories out will ALWAYS result in weight loss. did you not pay attention in school or what? and whats this 1200-2000 calorie nonsense? thats quite a wide range. get your basal metabolic rate calculated and knock off 5-10%. dont use one of those online calculators, go get hooked up to the mask.

Why is it that you think its such a 'magical' thing? hormones control everything in some way or another. Testosterone contributes to building muscle, everyone knows that, why would a hormone that signals fat to be burnt as fuel be such a stretch?

Ever seen a woman in a concentration camp with low food stores? Point proven.

What point? That those women are thin?

I think thats kind of beyond what this topic is about, I meant what size is attractively thin if 2-4 isnt?

Why is it that you think its such a 'magical' thing? hormones control everything in some way or another. Testosterone contributes to building muscle, everyone knows that, why would a hormone that signals fat to be burnt as fuel be such a stretch?

youll reach for any cockeyed excuse wont you?

On a slightly off topic note: Girls, if you wear those tops which only come down to the middle of your back (those tight ones) and low slung tight jeans that come up to half your hip, with a wide belt, then IT MAKES YOUR ARSE LOOK HUGE!

It really does, no matter if you are of perfect weight/a model/a sports woman.

And if you have even a centimetre of 'roll' then it emphasises it.

Just so you know.

I mean this kinda thing http://www.planetecoton.com/catalog/images/lvc_shirtfemcint.jpg

ps.wires, I'm going to unsticky this now, its had a few days. If however you want to resticky it then please do.

youll reach for any cockeyed excuse wont you?

The body functions as a whole through signals, chemical ones like hormones, and electrical impulses.

So which is it?

What point? That those women are thin?

I think thats kind of beyond what this topic is about, I meant what size is attractively thin if 2-4 isnt?

It isn't about the woman's size. This should be obvious with all the bigger black women that certain guys just can't get enough of...

It's the proportionality of bust to waist to hips. You are right in that hormones control a lot of activities in the body, but it doesn't mean that your hormones are making you obese in every instance of overweight women.

The body functions as a whole through signals, chemical ones like hormones, and electrical impulses.

So which is it?

Lol, your explanations of the human anatomy and chemistry are amusing at best.

It isn't about the woman's size. This should be obvious with all the bigger black women that certain guys just can't get enough of...

It's the proportionality of bust to waist to hips. You are right in that hormones control a lot of activities in the body, but it doesn't mean that your hormones are making you obese in every instance of overweight women.




I never meant to say it excuses obesity, or even being particularly overweight...

My only point is that it -is- harder for women to drop fat than men, the hormone thing is why, and the reason for women having less of that hormone is because it was a great advantage when being fat wasnt easy.

i dont know what your talkin bout' willis

those hip hugger jeans only make yours as big if you has an ass to begin with.
most girls that try to pull that off makes there ass look even more flat or shows crack.

that the most in order to get them to fit it bunches there ass an hips into a smaller place...BUT IVE FIGURE THERE SECRET and it does not particularly attract me

I never meant to say it excuses obesity, or even being particularly overweight...

My only point is that it -is- harder for women to drop fat than men, the hormone thing is why, and the reason for women having less of that hormone is because it was a great advantage when being fat wasnt easy.

Yeah or it could be the fact that the average man has a better muscle to fat ratio. Even in the most extreme cases of obesity. Why? Yes, you can attribute it to testosterone. Muscle is really the deciding factor in losing weight, maintaining weight, and keep weight off.

Yeah or it could be the fact that the average man has a better muscle to fat ratio. Even in the most extreme cases of obesity. Why? Yes, you can attribute it to testosterone. Muscle is really the deciding factor in losing weight, maintaining weight, and keep weight off.

Its another big factor, yes, though in something as complex as the human body there is rarely just one factor involved in anything.

Its another big factor, yes, though in something as complex as the human body there is rarely just one factor involved in anything.

no, not really. once again it comes down to calories in vs calories out. muscle burns much much more energy than storages of fat and thus it is highly advantageous to have a good bit of lean muscle tissue. this is one of the reasons it is very important that both men and women use compound exercises with heavy resistance in order to build lean muscle mass throughout their bodies. but hey, youd rather have a hormone* excuse to boohoo about.

*and your link incidentally is about a discovery made on mice that may apply to humans and is specifically mentioned in connection with a keto diet such as atkins, not all diet and exercise regimens. theres also no mention of levels of that specific hormone in any human let alone men vs women.

no, not really. once again it comes down to calories in vs calories out. muscle burns much much more energy than storages of fat and thus it is highly advantageous to have a good bit of lean muscle tissue. this is one of the reasons it is very important that both men and women use compound exercises with heavy resistance in order to build lean muscle mass throughout their bodies. but hey, youd rather have a hormone* excuse to boohoo about.

*and your link incidentally is about a discovery made on mice that may apply to humans and is specifically mentioned in connection with a keto diet such as atkins, not all diet and exercise regimens. theres also no mention of levels of that specific hormone in any human let alone men vs women.

Again, why is it such a huge stretch for you to believe there is a hormone like this? You seem to avoid actually answering that.

Again, why is it such a huge stretch for you to believe there is a hormone like this? You seem to avoid actually answering that.

No, he questions the relevancy of you trying to "produce" a hormone in the human body only observed in mice.

Yes, it can be attributed to one aspect and it has already been mentioned. Calories in vs. calories out. That is a very simple approach though, and the only thing you want to consider are your goals. Do you want to lose weight? Then you will eat low carbs, high protein, medium fat. Want to put on muscle? Then you will eat high carb, high protein, low fat.

It's all about how you supply your body and with how much. It is a machine that works on a very complicated level, but that complicated level is what allows it to function in such a simple manner.

Look this won't catch on. People aren't attracted to "real women" and thousands of years of conditioning aren't going to change because some magazine put a fat chick on the cover. This is a publicity stunt and its not even worth talking about.