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| My God Can Beat the Shit Out of Your God For discussing any and all religious viewpoints. Intolerance will not be tolerated. Keeping your sense of humor is required. Posting messages about theological paradoxes is encouraged. |
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# 1
2007-06-07, 04:13
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the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
if your an atheist, and your wrong
then it means you go to hell
but if your right, then nothing happens
but if your christian and your wrong then nothing happens at all
but if your right then you go to heaven
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# 2
2007-06-07, 04:23
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
What if you are a Christian, and it turns out that one of the hundreds of other gods is the true God?
So many from which to choose... How can you be certain that you worship the right one?
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# 3
2007-06-07, 04:42
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Moderator
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Deep South
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonight.we.dine.in.hell
if your an atheist, and your wrong
then it means you go to hell
but if your right, then nothing happens
but if your christian and your wrong then nothing happens at all
but if your right then you go to heaven
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If I'm wrong, then at least I'll have the satisfaction of knowing that I'll spend the rest of eternity in good company, at the mother-of-all-barbeques.
See you there, truckfixr! I'll bring the potato salad. 
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# 4
2007-06-07, 04:57
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryFemme
If I'm wrong, then at least I'll have the satisfaction of knowing that I'll spend the rest of eternity in good company, at the mother-of-all-barbeques.
See you there, truckfixr! I'll bring the potato salad. |
You know, that almost makes me wish that we are wrong. 
By the way. I'm curious as to how you came up with your user name. You're one of the least angry people on this website.
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# 5
2007-06-07, 05:42
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
What if you're a christian and you're religion is wrong and it turns out islam is true? Or one of a thousand other identical belief systems? Guess what, you and the atheists might just be hanging out for a while after death.
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# 6
2007-06-07, 05:55
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Moderator
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Deep South
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Quote:
Originally Posted by truckfixr
By the way. I'm curious as to how you came up with your user name. You're one of the least angry people on this website.
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I pirated it from a beautiful grey thoroughbred racehorse that went off at incredible odds and rallied the field, winning by several lengths and filling my purse full of the green stuff.
I honestly can't remember why I chose it as a screen moniker. I'm sure when I registered here, I didn't realize I'd cop a squat for half a decade.
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# 7
2007-06-07, 07:04
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonight.we.dine.in.hell
if your an atheist, and your wrong
then it means you go to hell
but if your right, then nothing happens
but if your christian and your wrong then nothing happens at all
but if your right then you go to heaven
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This argument is called Pascal's wager. It fails.
You only assume two possibilities - Christianity and atheism. Consider other religions, should you believe in Yahweh and follow the Christian doctrine you might end up in some other hell that another religion describes. So if you are wrong you DO stand to lose a lot. It's late now so I can't be eloquent and make a good point but google "Pascal's Wager"
Edit: Oh yeah another counterargument is that you don't chose to believe. Either you believe or you don't. So if you are an atheist but you are afraid of going to hell (I know, an oxymoron) the only chance you have is to *pretend* to believe in god. Can you make yourself believe in Santa? The only thing you can do is pretend and mask and surely if god exists and is indeed the christian god he'll see through such veil of bullshit
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# 8
2007-06-07, 17:07
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Yeah, that is Pascal's Wager, and it is a retarded argument. I wrote a paper on it last year. Seems retarded that it gets so much attention in the philosophical/religious world when it is SUCH a flawed argument.
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# 9
2007-06-07, 20:13
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Regular
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Mount Selya, Vulcan
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Pascal's Wager is like that annoying, retarded relative that always shows up at your house when you don't want them to. No matter how many times you explain to him that he's a fucking incorrect, he won't leave.
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# 10
2007-06-08, 03:50
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
old..
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#11
2007-06-08, 04:17 |
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Pascal's wager leaves out an important of the 'if...then' statements:
If you believe in god, christianity,etc and god doesn't exist, you wasted your life and much time praying to something that didn't exist, believing false beliefs and basically acting like a trained donkey all your life. Not to mention the wide negative effects of organized religion on the world. You LOSE IN THIS LIFE if you believe and are wrong!
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#12
2007-06-08, 10:01 |
pianoSpleen 
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Something I've been thinking...
Religions change over time, by their very nature - they're like a meme. They are passed down, change into other religions, grow and die out.
But you see, religions have quality. A religion low in quality isn't going to spread - eg, one that says everyone will unconditionally be damned, or whatever, won't succeed. We can tell from the fact that none of the religions that are common today have such traits that certain traits will result in the extinction of a religion.
Now, have I perked anyone's memory? Religions change gradually and ones lacking certain qualities die out.
That's right. The existence of religions prove that evolution naturally occurs, because it naturally occurs to religions. Take that, creationists.
(I'm aware that I made a few logical fallacies and jumps here and there, it's mostly for fun and perspective)
But yeah, that was mostly for perspective (and fun). That is to say, religions started as cavemen thinking up excuses for the stars being in the sky, and actually evolved into a (sometimes) sophisticated but completely baseless belief structure. Keeping this in mind, it's quite simply painful to think that so many people actually believe they're valid.
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#13
2007-06-08, 10:15 |
SyncMaster763
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
haha piano spleens post had nothing to do with anything, especially because evolution and creationism deals with the spawning of man, not progression of technology and ideals.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who lawled @ pascals wager.
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#14
2007-06-08, 11:11 |
pianoSpleen
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
No, it was just an amusing example of evolution. If you're so concerned about it in living things there's plenty of examples of those.
And for that matter evolution will occur in any system with a set of certain bounds. Anything that involves altered reproduction with certain traits meaning a higher chance of survival will show this pattern.
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#15
2007-06-08, 15:22 |
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The little land of Oz
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tonight.we.dine.in.hell
if your an atheist, and your wrong
then it means you go to hell
but if your right, then nothing happens
but if your christian and your wrong then nothing happens at all
but if your right then you go to heaven
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Sure, masquerading as a Christian when you have no faith is really going to win you brownie points from God... |
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#16
2007-06-08, 17:13 |
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fascismo
What if you're a christian and you're religion is wrong and it turns out islam is true? Or one of a thousand other identical belief systems? Guess what, you and the atheists might just be hanging out for a while after death.
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Actually, chrisitianity is one of the only religions (if not the only religion) that promises eternal, unrelenting torture for those who don't follow them.
Pascals wager is flawed. The universe is infinite, therefore theres an infinite probability that there are other life forms, and following that, they'll have other religions. I could be a devout christian or muslim or jainist, but it wouldn't matter when I ended up in Eternal Scarrlaac Pit of Jabba's Revenge. |
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#17
2007-06-08, 20:35 |
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Quote:
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Originally Posted by truckfixr
What if you are a Christian, and it turns out that one of the hundreds of other gods is the true God?
So many from which to choose... How can you be certain that you worship the right one?
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They're all the same God.
When you meet him, you will see he can be anything, everything, and most usually, nothing in particular...
pianospleen, does adapation necessitate evolution? |
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#18
2007-06-08, 20:39 |
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
(1) there is a God that says if you believe in any God, including itself, then you will surely burn in hell.
(2) this God also says that if you don't believe in any God and get by on your own, you'll go to heaven.
(3) therefore, it's best you don't believe in God and forget this argument.
(1) there is a God that says if you believe in any God, including itself, then you will surely burn in hell.
(2) this God also says that if you don't believe in any God and get by on your own, then you will surely burn in hell.
(3) therefore, you're fucked.
The speculation is endless.
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#19
2007-06-08, 20:42 |
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
What God are you talking about?
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#20
2007-06-08, 21:33 |
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
They're all the same God...
Try telling that to the followers of each religion that exists. They don't believe that all gods are one and the same. How can you honestly assert that you believe in all religions, when you don't believe their dogma?
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#21
2007-06-08, 23:05 |
Pyronos
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tonight.we.dine.in.hell
if your an atheist, and your wrong
then it means you go to hell
but if your right, then nothing happens
but if your christian and your wrong then nothing happens at all
but if your right then you go to heaven
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Holy shit!
You're a fucking genius!
This argument has never been thought of before.
:roll:
To be honest, if I go to Hell for being a logical, moral human being... then Hell can't be too bad, now can it? |
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#22
2007-06-09, 03:51 |
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
I pirated it from a beautiful grey thoroughbred racehorse that went off at incredible odds and rallied the field, winning by several lengths and filling my purse full of the green stuff.
I honestly can't remember why I chose it as a screen moniker. I'm sure when I registered here, I didn't realize I'd cop a squat for half a decade.
:D
Now that I know the origin I must say that you have chosen well.
To be honest, I'm glad that you've stayed around. The arguments you post are always well thought out and are a pleasure to read.
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#23
2007-06-09, 08:39 |
pianoSpleen
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
pianospleen, does adapation necessitate evolution?
Depends on your definition of adaptation.
Any adaptation that came about randomly (edit: and resulted in proliferation) is, by definition, evolution.
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#24
2007-06-09, 12:19 |
oc6
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
They're all the same God.
When you meet him, you will see he can be anything, everything, and most usually, nothing in particular...
Have you met him/them?
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#25
2007-06-10, 06:06 |
Lacedwithdelight
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Yeah, know we're back to scaring people into being like you.
If your christian god saw that you are inciting fear into the hearts of his children, he would be very displeased with you.
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#26
2007-06-10, 06:58 |
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Well here's the catch. If you believe in God simply because you don't want to go to hell, you're going to hell anyways. If you love God just for own selfish gain (aka heaven) then it doesn't count.
Not that this matters, there's no god.
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#27
2007-06-11, 18:40 |
CBUM
Regular
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Quote:
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Originally Posted by truckfixr
What if you are a Christian, and it turns out that one of the hundreds of other gods is the true God?
So many from which to choose... How can you be certain that you worship the right one?
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Polytheism, the 1337 h4x of divine judgement. |
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#28
2007-06-13, 16:35 |
The Floyd
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Even if Christianity and atheism were the only two beliefs, you can't choose to believe in God.
I mean, you better hope that your god isn't one of those all powerful and knowing ones otherwise he'll see right through your cowardly bet hedgeing. Oh wait, he is? Son of a gun, you'll still burn.
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#29
2007-06-13, 22:16 |
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Quote:
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Originally Posted by truckfixr
What if you are a Christian, and it turns out that one of the hundreds of other gods is the true God?
So many from which to choose... How can you be certain that you worship the right one?
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I'd rather take a gamble and be wrong than not have a chance (lol, puns) in hell at winning. |
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#30
2007-06-13, 22:18 |
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Quote:
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Originally Posted by KikoSanchez
Pascal's wager leaves out an important of the 'if...then' statements:
If you believe in god, christianity,etc and god doesn't exist, you wasted your life and much time praying to something that didn't exist, believing false beliefs and basically acting like a trained donkey all your life. Not to mention the wide negative effects of organized religion on the world. You LOSE IN THIS LIFE if you believe and are wrong!
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It doesnt matter. You win nothing and lose nothing if there is no god and you are religious. The point is irrelevant. |
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#31
2007-06-13, 22:44 |
Grail
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fascismo
What if you're a christian and you're religion is wrong and it turns out islam is true? Or one of a thousand other identical belief systems? Guess what, you and the atheists might just be hanging out for a while after death.
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Yeah exactly. It's a stupid argument because it's not atheism vs. religion, it's atheism vs. every other single religion that's ever existed (and even then, who knows if one of THOSE is right?)
And what about the (very few) religions that would allow an atheist to go to "heaven" if they were simply a good person? So really everyone has the same chance. |
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#32
2007-06-13, 23:04 |
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
I dont see why you morons cant figure out that if considering other religions that you cannot substitute, for example, "atheist" with "Christianity" and "Christianity" with "Islam."
I find it very silly that you disregard the Wager because you cannot, either through sheer ignorance or apathetic stupidity, make logical substitutions but instead take the Wager for face value when it accurately describes a distinct possibility, and accurately describes further possibilities with such substitutions.
Using such logic, one can generalize and replace "Christianity" entirely with "religion in general", thus satisfying little babies of this forum and describing the possibilities.
Major wag of the finger on many of you.
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#33
2007-06-13, 23:31 |
Pilsu
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
By feigning belief "just in case" you're trying to bullshit God. Do you think you can bullshit God Tim?
Basically, it'd make perfect sense if belief was something you choose. If you insist otherwise, I don't think you can choose to believe in tooth fairy either
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#34
2007-06-14, 04:11 |
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
You LOSE IN THIS LIFE if you believe and are wrong!
Actually religion brings happiness and comfort to many people. I hate religion and think people would be better off if they could accept here is no god and no heaven, but their feeble mindedness and personal fears prevent this. Religion is something people hold very dearly. Why do you think people defend it with such vigor?
"The Life of Pi" is a very interesting book. Its about how even if there is no God, you'll be a happier person in this life if you believe in God. It makes sense. I wish I could trick myself into believing that when I die I'll spend eternity in paradise. That sounds pretty fucking sweet, right? But alas, you must make a choice, a life of happiness or a life of meaning. I made my choice. There is no God.
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#35
2007-06-14, 19:48 |
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
I'd rather take a gamble and be wrong than not have a chance (lol, puns) in hell at winning.
(1) there is a God that says if you believe in any God, including itself, then you will surely burn in hell.
(2) this God also says that if you don't believe in any God and get by on your own, you'll go to heaven.
(3) therefore, it's best you don't believe in God and forget this argument.
(1) there is a God that says if you believe in any God, including itself, then you will surely burn in hell.
(2) this God also says that if you don't believe in any God and get by on your own, then you will surely burn in hell.
(3) therefore, you're fucked.
Ooops!
[ Just in case you don't understand what was said: Pascals' Wager assumes there is no possible way for the atheist to "win" and the theist to "lose" at the same time. That is an assumption the wager cannot make. There could be, as Hare pointed out, a god that rewards atheists and punishes theists; a god could prefer humans to lack a belief in any god, than to have a belief in the wrong one. In that case, atheists "win" and theists "lose". ]
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#36
2007-06-15, 01:40 |
SAMMY249
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Actually religion brings happiness and comfort to many people. I hate religion and think people would be better off if they could accept here is no god and no heaven, but their feeble mindedness and personal fears prevent this. Religion is something people hold very dearly. Why do you think people defend it with such vigor?
That is a stupid thing to say
1. You say "accept" http://www.thefreedictionary.com/accept (3.b I think describes best the point you are trying to get across) that would imply you have proof of this claim and you just want people to accept fact ,but you have no proof of this "no god" claim so either find a better word like hmmm let me think.... BELIEVE yes if you said "believe there is no god" I wouldnt have a problem but you said accept and that is just stupid.
2. After saying we dont accept what you accept as true (In this case you can substitute that statement with after not believing the same thing I believe) you say 80% (rough guess) of the world accepts God due to "feeble mindedness and personal fears" you saying that implys A.They are stupid for not believing what you believe. B.You know the reason any particular person accepted whatever god it just so happens to be. I dont know about you but for someone to assume that one person knows 80% of the worlds reason for believing in something very personal to that person, that sounds to me like a very stupid person.
3. "Why do you think people defend it with such vigor?" some atheists defend their belief (in no god) with the same amount of vigor. To point out a group doing one thing and not point out the opposite group is doing the exact same thing without even knowing your doing it is stupid.
(Hope you enjoy the grammatical errors)
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#37
2007-06-15, 02:03 |
Pilsu
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
3. "Why do you think people defend it with such vigor?" some atheists defend their belief (in no god) with the same amount of vigor. To point out a group doing one thing and not point out the opposite group is doing the exact same thing without even knowing your doing it is stupid.
Theists tell you that there's a God despite a complete lack of evidence short of an old book strangely similar to old folklore. Oh wait, did I call a book evidence? That was stupid, it doesn't prove anything any more than a book telling the story of Hercules or Zeus does. Atheists tell them that they're full of shit and need to do better or stop spewing unsubstantiated stories. You can hardly judge them for trying to counter the crap theists spew to get more following from the impressionable fools
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#38
2007-06-15, 02:16 |
SAMMY249
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Theists tell you that there's a God despite a complete lack of evidence short of an old book strangely similar to old folklore. Oh wait, did I call a book evidence? That was stupid, it doesn't prove anything any more than a book telling the story of Hercules or Zeus does. Atheists tell them that they're full of shit and need to do better or stop spewing unsubstantiated stories. You can hardly judge them for trying to counter the crap theists spew to get more following from the impressionable fools
I do not claim my beliefs to be fact im sorry your constant encounter with ignorant theists have given you a hatred for all religions but as you can tell an atheists just claimed his belief (in no god) was fact so there is ignorance on both side but that dosnt mean that you have to hate all religions.
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#39
2007-06-15, 02:21 |
Pilsu
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Man who "knows" there is no God would change his mind if he spoke or did something that was obviously impossible. It's like knowing that there's a gravity until the rules go haywire and prove you wrong
I don't hate religion. I'm just overcome with despair when I watch the lies people perpetuate for personal gain. We could be so smart and caring but we throw it all away
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#40
2007-06-18, 20:19 |
tylersch
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
For all those dissing pascal's wager...
Look up Atheist's Wager
awh... just when you thought you were SO smart
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#41
2007-06-18, 20:30 |
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Care to point out to us what's wrong with the "Atheist Wager"? Then, after you manage to do so, please explain how that matters, at all, seeing as nobody here has said it's a good wager?
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#42
2007-06-19, 03:46 |
devilsadvocate
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pianoSpleen
Something I've been thinking...
Religions change over time, by their very nature - they're like a meme. They are passed down, change into other religions, grow and die out.
But you see, religions have quality. A religion low in quality isn't going to spread - eg, one that says everyone will unconditionally be damned, or whatever, won't succeed. We can tell from the fact that none of the religions that are common today have such traits that certain traits will result in the extinction of a religion.
Now, have I perked anyone's memory? Religions change gradually and ones lacking certain qualities die out.
That's right. The existence of religions prove that evolution naturally occurs, because it naturally occurs to religions. Take that, creationists.
(I'm aware that I made a few logical fallacies and jumps here and there, it's mostly for fun and perspective)
But yeah, that was mostly for perspective (and fun). That is to say, religions started as cavemen thinking up excuses for the stars being in the sky, and actually evolved into a (sometimes) sophisticated but completely baseless belief structure. Keeping this in mind, it's quite simply painful to think that so many people actually believe they're valid.
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you sir have lit a smile upon my face with the post you made,i literally hooted out loud when i read your statement,yes take that indeed creationalists,if i still wasnt puzzled on how to give rep on here id give ya some[but ive let my pride take control of me and havent gotten the gall to ask how to give it yet
but none the less,great post,and op you did a stunning job too,slowly there retreating ,=D |
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#43
2007-06-19, 18:44 |
bible_belt_atheist
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
PASCAL'S WAGER IS SHIT! What if you're wrong about God preferring dimwitted people who follow with blind faith even through lack of evidence over people who think logically and want evidence but receive none? Huh? That's right little bastard you don't know.
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#44
2007-06-19, 21:06 |
Kipperelly Slash/ed
Regular
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tonight.we.dine.in.hell
if your an atheist, and your wrong
then it means you go to hell
but if your right, then nothing happens
but if your christian and your wrong then nothing happens at all
but if your right then you go to heaven
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Wow! Now where have I heard this before?
Oh, that's right: Blaise Pascal. (And he said it with more eloquence than you did). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager
At least you tried. :p |
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#45
2007-06-19, 21:07 |
Kipperelly Slash/ed
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
This argument is called Pascal's wager. It fails.
You only assume two possibilities - Christianity and atheism. Consider other religions, should you believe in Yahweh and follow the Christian doctrine you might end up in some other hell that another religion describes. So if you are wrong you DO stand to lose a lot. It's late now so I can't be eloquent and make a good point but google "Pascal's Wager"
Edit: Oh yeah another counterargument is that you don't chose to believe. Either you believe or you don't. So if you are an atheist but you are afraid of going to hell (I know, an oxymoron) the only chance you have is to *pretend* to believe in god. Can you make yourself believe in Santa? The only thing you can do is pretend and mask and surely if god exists and is indeed the christian god he'll see through such veil of bullshit
Aww damn =/ He got there before me.
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#46
2007-06-19, 22:45 |
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
I'll gladly accept the punishment of hell if I'm wrong.
But I'm not wrong, so there's nothing to worry about.
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#47
2007-06-23, 03:37 |
pianoSpleen
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
you sir have lit a smile upon my face with the post you made,i literally hooted out loud when i read your statement,yes take that indeed creationalists,if i still wasnt puzzled on how to give rep on here id give ya some[but ive let my pride take control of me and havent gotten the gall to ask how to give it yet
Hahah, thanks
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#48
2007-06-26, 20:07 |
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
potato salad. :D
was it truckfixr which wrote the story I'm thinking of?
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#49
2007-06-26, 20:12 |
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SyncMaster763
haha piano spleens post had nothing to do with anything, especially because evolution and creationism deals with the spawning of man, not progression of technology and ideals.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who lawled @ pascals wager.
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You're a fucking idiot.
He said it, in a way, proves evolution. And it does. He never said it proves the evolution of organisms, although it's a good anaology. |
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#50
2007-06-26, 20:14 |
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
That's right. The existence of religions prove that evolution naturally occurs, because it naturally occurs to religions. Take that, creationists.
(I'm aware that I made a few logical fallacies and jumps here and there, it's mostly for fun and perspective)
I bet you'll like reading this: http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/thoughts.html
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#51
2007-06-26, 20:21 |
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Re: the only reason you shouldnt be an atheist
^ That's a great article, I've got that bookmarked at home.
I can't miss this opportunity to plug a Daniel Dennett book either:
Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon (http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Spell-Religion-Natural-Phenomenon/dp/067003472X)
The editorial view from the Scientific American (publication) gives an excellent synopsis and review of Dennett's latest work.
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