"As a star safety for the Arizona Cardinals, who gave up a contract worth millions of dollars to join the military in a burst of post-Sept. 11 patriotism, Pat Tillman was certainly one of a handful of popularly known American soldiers of his generation -- along with the similarly exploited Jessica Lynch and the infamous Abu Ghraib guard Lyndie England. It was the scandal of Abu Ghraib, in fact, that the family believes may have driven the Bush administration and the military to cover up the embarrassing truth of Tillman's pointless death.

First, they were informed that their son was killed by enemy fire, even though it was soon obvious to Tillman's superiors in Afghanistan that this was untrue. Soldiers on the scene knew the truth, but were told by higher-ups not to reveal it, even to Pat's brother, Kevin, a professional baseball player who had enlisted alongside his brother. Kevin, who served in the same unit as Pat, was patrolling nearby at the time and accompanied his brother's body home, unaware of the cause of his death.

For more than a month, an investigating officer's determination that friendly fire and possible "gross negligence" had led to Tillman's death was buried so that military press releases and a nationally televised memorial service could sell America on the completely false notion that Tillman had died while in a gun battle with Taliban or al Qaeda irregulars. The officer also later testified that, in the subsequent investigations, key witnesses were allowed to change their previous testimony.

It is inconceivable that the facts of this publicly revered soldier's death were not transmitted to the top brass at the Pentagon and over to the White House. As Mary Tillman pointed out Monday, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld had written a letter to her son when he enlisted, congratulating him on his patriotic spirit.

"I'm sure he was on their radar and I'm sure the Army wouldn't do this without the administration knowing. The administration covered it up because they needed to promote the war and it came at the time of the Abu Ghraib scandal," she said. "They spun a fantasy story that made his Silver Star suspect -- I know that Pat was heroic and I didn't need their deceptions to confirm it." "
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/33270/

I am willing to bet dollars to donuts that no one from the military or the Bush White House has called and expressed any remors4e oin the death and the Lying about Pat Tillman.

What a shameful way to treat a real patriot by the lying Bush Regime.

Hey aren't any of you Repugs willing to answer this post.

At least to say that Tillman volunteered so he took his chances and so Blah blah blah - like you repugs usually do - spin spin spin?

WTF. Can't you repugs find at least some spin for the Lying for political reasons when the Bush Regime lied to the Gold Star Mother?

Come on Repugs before Seph decides that he needs to close this stinking thread.

Give me something.

Make up a lie like those Lying Repugs did at least.

Or tell me that you do not think it was honorable for the Bush Regime to lie to The Tillman Family in their time of loss.

Come on you Repugs where is the the Bush ass kissing now???

*fuck*

or maybe everyone is just sick of hearing your same ol bitch and moan, and they probably relized that trying to talk to you ... the idoit is a waste of time

quote:

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Originally posted by Kotov:
or maybe everyone is just sick of hearing your same ol bitch and moan, and they probably relized that trying to talk to you ... the idoit is a waste of time

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So you cannot defend the lie the Bush Regime told the grieving family?

Noted.

So you know Kotov lying is a sin.

If the article is true, then I'm pissed off. It's pretty damn hypocritical to support a war and then fuck over true patriots. I don't know; I'm losing a little faith in Bush. However, that only applies if this is true. So, it would be nice to hear from some conservatives because this could just be the media lying or there could be other facts invloved. Until then, I hold judgement. Thanks though Hacker; this could prove interesting in my evaluation of Bush.

Stop copying and pasting off of other sites, these kind of threads get old fast.

lieing is a sin lol haha thats funny...i hope your not religous...if so your a bigger moron. LIKE anyone in this world has not lied so fuck off on trying to make a lie a big deal....hell your parents lied when they said your good looking....fuck they also lied when they said you can think on your own.

so DOWN with your parents and there regime!!!


fag

Hey Kotov, what's Ъ and ь?

quote:

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Originally posted by Kotov:
lieing is a sin lol haha thats funny...i hope your not religous...if so your a bigger moron. LIKE anyone in this world has not lied so fuck off on trying to make a lie a big deal....hell your parents lied when they said your good looking....fuck they also lied when they said you can think on your own.

so DOWN with your parents and there regime!!!


fag

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#Why don't you post some good things that Bush has done?

You know some success that Bush has initiated that makes you proud of him.

Or a policy that he has initiated that is working to his or the country's benefit?

Or you can attack me personally.

Like that is even an asset to this forum.

Or you can grow up.

That last one would be hard, eh?

I stand behind Hacker. The bush administration did cover this up, they don't have a story as to why this happened. They fucked up, and they need to fucking own up and stop being the little bitch that they are.

On a side note, Kotov, YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT. You come on a thread about politics, and the only thing I see you posting is flames. If you want a flame war, I'll give you a flame war. Try to actually use that brain that your parents gave you, they might be proud of your futile efforts to come up with a valid arguement, I mean, someone has to give 2 shits about the retarded. If no one did then that would just be sad. It's ok, I sure someone out there thinks you're special, I haven't found em yet, but I'm sure there might be one.

Ex-NFL lineman trades jersey for utilities

Lance Cpl. Dorian Gardner

Pfc. Jeremy Staat, Platoon 1065, Company B, practices rifle manual in his training barracks.
by Lance Cpl. Dorian Gardner
MCRD San Diego

MARINE CORPS RECRUIT DEPOT SAN DIEGO -- Giving up the fame of the football field at 29 years old, one B Company recruit looked for a glory that was more permanent than any trophy.

At age 13, Pfc. Jeremy Staat was 75 inches tall and weighed 230 pounds. It seemed as if he was built for football, according to Staat.

"I really didn't have to work hard at it," said Staat.

Starting as an offensive lineman, Staat grew as a football player and saw his first glimpse of the Marine Corps not long after starting at Arizona State University as an offensive lineman.

Fond memories traced back to his first encounter with the Marine Corps.

"I had a buddy who was a combat photographer in the Marine Corps," said Staat. "He came back from the desert with pictures of these big C-130s and I said, 'I want to do what you are doing.'"

Playing football began losing its appeal. Seeing other men and women around the world in their service uniforms kept Staat thinking about those "what-ifs."

Following his time at the university, Staat moved up to the National Football League, playing with the Pittsburgh Steelers, Oakland Raiders, Seattle Seahawks, St. Louis Rams and one year of arena football with the Los Angeles Avengers.

Early thoughts of leaving the league were deflected after college teammate Pat Tillman influenced Staat to stay in until he could get a retirement plan. Staat and Tillman became good friends while sharing a room at ASU. Over time, Tillman decided to leave the NFL to serve in the U.S. Army before he was killed in action in 2004.

"That was the turning point for Jeremy," said Janet Goodheart, Jeremy Staat's mother. "After Pat was killed, he began to dwell on things. He visited me at home and we had a real serious talk. He told me that he was through with football."

He decided to enlist in the military. Because of his larger-than-life exterior, Staat had to pass a few tests before he could enlist.

His mother said he passed tests everyday.

"He called me and said, 'Mom, you can't be any more than 78 inches, 29 years old and 261 pounds,''' said Goodheart. "He was all three."

There were certain reasons for joining that went beyond the passing of Pat Tillman, according to Staat.

"The big reason was because I was just really disgusted with the amount of money entertainers get and what they pay troops overseas," said Staat. "It didn't seem right that we pay all those entertainers millions to catch a football and we pay our Marines pennies to a dollar to catch a bullet," said Staat.

Determined to leave, Staat spoke with a recruiter and left as soon as possible.

"I came in two months early, like 'Let's get it on,'" said Staat. "I wanted to be a part of something that is going to live forever instead of getting trophies. What are trophies good for - collecting dust? Most trophies get thrown in the garage. Who knows where they go after that?"

Arriving at the depot, Staat did what he could to keep his past under wraps, but within five hours of his landing, his secret was out.

Staat said a drill instructor asked the 77-inch stack of muscle if he played football. "I played a little in college," said Staat, who enlisted to become a machine gunner.

The drill instructor kept digging and eventually the truth came out.

"From what I knew of Marine Corps training, drill instructors are extremely professional," said Staat. "With all the attention I've drawn to this platoon, they have done an awesome job being professional."

When he started training, Staat took a different outlook on his environment than most recruits do during the first phase of boot camp. To him, playing for a team was temporary; being part of a legend was something people wouldn't forget.

Since entering recruit training, Staat realized he wasn't used to the strenuous environment.

"I've run three miles four times in my life, once at (Military Entrance Processing Station), and three times here," said Staat.

Besides the physical training, boot camp is aimed to place stress on recruits to prepare them for stressful situations they may encounter on the battlefield.

Stepping away from the life of an entertainer to enjoy the priceless experience of Marine Corps boot camp, Staat said he couldn't feel more at home.

"I would wake up every day and smile," said Staat. "Recruits look at me like I am crazy, but I am just happy to be here; to be on a practice field as big as Camp Pendleton is crazy."

According to Goodheart, the letters Staat sent home during training let her know that her son was doing fine in his training. "He was very happy," she said.

The only thing that Staat couldn't grasp about training was the other recruits. He couldn't understand why 60 recruits would rather to do push-ups in the dirt than sound off when told to by their drill instructors, but Staat never lost his motivation, according to Goodheart.

"If there was something that gave Jeremy any kind of doubt, he would pursue it until he was convinced," said Goodheart.

"If you change the mindset of what you are doing, you can turn it into a whole new experience," said Staat. "I looked at field training like I was going camping. They are going to pay me to learn how to train and survive in the field."

Staat said he found it amusing that people pay for the training that Marines are paid to complete.

"They train you to keep in shape. They put you on a diet," said Staat. "People pay to do that."

Staat recalled a day during training when his company ran the obstacle course. There are a number of high walls, logs and bars to get over throughout the course including the rope, which is strung from a high beam of wood to the ground. Staat attempted to climb the rope but failed. He was trained on the proper techniques, he got a second chance.

Staat's senior drill instructor told him to climb the rope again. One of the many things that are stressed during training is bearing, but when Staat climbed to the top of the rope, he broke his bearing and smiled.

"I asked him what happened the first time and he smiled and said, 'This recruit didn't have the technique down, sir,'" said Staff Sgt. Miguel R. Saenz, senior drill instructor, Platoon 1065.

"I was just happy," said Staat. "I had never climbed a rope before."

Beyond the training, there were adjustments Staat had to make.

"It was fast," said Staat. "The sounding off was difficult because I am not used to yelling and screaming."

Even the combat utility uniforms took some getting used to, according Staat.

"I looked at them as a new uniform," said Staat. "Instead of having a football helmet, I had a Kevlar. Instead of wearing shoulder pads, I wore a flak jacket."

Departing the depot as a squad leader, and one of many new Marines graduating from Co. B, Staat plans on leaving a lasting impression in the Marine Corps and maybe watch a few football games on his days off.


http:/ /www.dcmil itary.com/ marines/he ndersonhal l/11_12/fe atures/402 36-1.html

I know that some here think that the troops that find themselves in Iraq's war zone, somehow knew that there was a chance that the US of A would illegally go to war with a country that posed no threat to the US of A and so they alone are responsible for the mess they find themselves in and were only in it for the big bucks and the college education.

So Bush says that he prayed really hard the night that the war started for the safety of those he was sending into harms way and cried because he was sure that some troops indeed would be harmed.

And in his coniving way he, did not count as casualties of war, the soldiers that died accidental deaths in Iraq. The non- combat deaths were not reported. I feel that it was a political ploy to make it seem that the cost of war was less than reality shows.

So Bush, who said he cared about every soldier that he had the responsibility to send into harm's way, seemed to be telling the families of the fallen soldier that died in a war zone from non-combat injuries that their sacrifice was a bit less important or a tad bit not as special as a soldier that was slain by a terrorist or insurgent or even friendly fire.

Well like I have said, this must surely be a pre-meditated ploy by Bush to make his war seem not as severe or dangerous as it really is.

It seems to me that it is a slap in the face of the troops that risk their lives in that cause that Bush is so dedicated too.

I am surprised by Bush's action in this matter and puzzled as to the depths of his compassion for those who's death is deemed non-combat simply because the truck driver that lost control of his vehicle and died in the accident was not a fatality of war simply because he was in a non-hostile situation.

That must be de-moralizing for the troops fighting in Iraq.

quote:

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Originally posted by Hacker:
#Why don't you post some good things that Bush has done?

You know some success that Bush has initiated that makes you proud of him.

Or a policy that he has initiated that is working to his or the country's benefit?

Or you can attack me personally.

Like that is even an asset to this forum.

Or you can grow up.

That last one would be hard, eh?

---

why would i really flame or agree with bush....what he does dosnt impact me.... I just find it funny that your the outcome of the democrocy america lets happen...not bushes fault but the goverment.....dems and reps.....but you would agree with that because its all the "repugs"

quote:

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Originally posted by Kotov:
why would i really flame or agree with bush....what he does dosnt impact me.... I just find it funny that your the outcome of the democrocy america lets happen...not bushes fault but the goverment.....dems and reps.....but you would agree with that because its all the "repugs"

---

So let us know what country you are from?

I mean you are rarely right when you post except when you state your hatred for me. So let us know what country developed such hatred in an individual like you.

Thanks in advance.