What is your choice for the "baddest" production folding knife available?

I nominate the Spyderco Civilian. This is afull-serrated jobbie with a wicked hawkbill blade in ATS-55 steel. It was designed for one purpose only, inflicting maximum damage. Hannibal Lector uses Spyderco exclusively--in the movie Hannibal, the knife you see him brandishing is a Spyderco Harpy, almost as deadly as the Civilian but lots cheaper--$69 or so for the Harpy, over $200 for the Civilian.

For "baddest" looking production folder, the Cold Steel Vaquero Grande, or a SS Spyderco Police.

Edit- Add the Spyderhawk to the list.

peace out.
sph3ric pyramid.

[This message has been edited by sph3ric pyramid (edited 02-01-2003).]

REKAT SIFU (I used to think is was STFU, which is a pleasing acronim)

����It's anoname chinese piece of junk, but this a favorite of most people who view my collection.

~Zero

Awesome knife, Zero . In fact, I have sold knives much like it and have some even nastier looking in stock. Fact is, today, your chinese knives by offer the most bang for the buck, especially Jaguar and Master Cutlery. (The latter has a Web site, http://MasterCutlery.com; anyone can view the site, but they only sell to dealers.)

[This message has been edited by ArmsMerchant (edited 02-02-2003).]

I'm somewhat dubious on the quality of Master and Jag. Having handled the CRKT origionals and the cheap Master knock offs it seems to be a real case of you get what you pay for, and since Masters cost 10% of the real thing, I sure wouldn't trust the liner lock on them.

That said, Master's make great throwaway knives, you can get most of them online for less than $10 if you look around and you won't feel bad if you have to toss it. Just don't lose a finger when the lock fails... probably best to stick with the fixed blades from the cheapie makers.

[This message has been edited by A_M_P (edited 02-02-2003).]

most china cheapies are decent if you want to play around with them. but definately not for fighting, camping, using around the house etc.

the rekat sifu, id second that. definately a badass knife. i know a guy who has one, and that thing is one big ass folder ! i think the name is taken from some martial arts thing.

how about the camillus mad maxx ? spearpoint blade, 5 inches long. designed by darrel ralph it doesnt look as intimidating as the sifu, but...........

I carry CRKT, Master, and Jag. Some of the Jags have had lock problems, but the Master copy of the CRKT M-16 is awesome. If lock failure is a concern, Master makes a number of frame-lock folders. Then again, you can always get a sheath knife and avoid that whole issue. And I do have to admit, the Master copy of the Vaquero Grande is sorta pathetic--if it were a car, it would be a Fiero.

Master Cutlery makes some pathetic knives. Especially since they won't hold an edge worth shit, they're poorly made and finished, and they're inferior copies of a real cutting tool. From the ones I've seen, maybe one out of ten had a good lock.

Jaguar make good training balis, but not much else, except for maybe some autos for letter openers.

I would rather pay a few bucks more and get a low end CRKT or an Opinel that won't break in half and will hold an edge.

All of this is moot of course if it's just for self defense. You really don't need to have something hold an edge then.

For a scary looking fixed blade, though, look at the Hibben pieces. Or the Masters of Defence ATAC. Or any of the Szabo pieces at szaboinc.com.

peace out.
sph3ric pyramid.

����Lots of chinese cheapies actually become halfway decent knives if you heat treat the blades. Obviously, you need a cheapass chinese knife that's full tang or of a reasonably durable construction to begin with.

~Zero

Much of the problem is that the knives are made of an unspecified steel (which is most likely pot metal). It's hard to re-temper and heat treat something that you don't know the proper temperatures for. You can harden it to a certain degree, but it's performance is going to be highly uneven. Certainly nothing you would want to carry out everyday tasks if you use knives constantly.


peace out.
sph3ric pyramid.

[This message has been edited by sph3ric pyramid (edited 02-02-2003).]

����True enough, but what do you want for a buck? The ones labeled "stainless" and "440" are almost always 440A or 440B. These aren't the best steels for blades but you can improve them somewhat. Some of the Furies are actually true 400C.
����The trouble with them is they aren't heat treated at all. You can always seat-of-the-pants harden the lower carbon content ones (below .45 - .50 percent) simply by heating the blade until it becomes nonmagnetic and quenching it in brine. There's really not a whole lot of drawing to do on low carbon steels such as these. About the hardest you can get the edge is about as hard as you need...
����Even still, this is just tinerking for those of us with the knives and the time. I only bother to treat a very small portion of my collection of crappy knives. I figure at that rate I may as well simply buy a better knife or make my own and waste my time heat treating that.

~Zero

the conditions in a lto of chinese knife factories are pretty bad. i was talking to a guy who works at an importing warehouse. he went there to visit the workshops of a company who was going to make kitchen knives they would import. a room of men, all with black skin from the metal, were hand polishing the knives. no respirators, no airflow

and a little group of 3-5 women. one would pass the knives to the middle woman, she would put them under a stamping machine, and pass them onto the others who would pack them. 12 hours a day, stamping and passing knives. didnt get that much either

anyway, id prefer not to support a company which rips off other peoples designs without acknolodging them (custom collaborations are AOK to me :P)

The way I heard it, over here we have mom and pop grocery stores--in China, they have mom and pop steel mills. Some people make a big deal of boycotting chinese products due to their human rights thingies--heck, the US of A has no room to talk in that regard--ask any Indian, black person, victim of the HUAC hearings during the 50s, and so on and so forth. I have no problem with copycat knives as long as they are not passed off as the original--sometimes I stock the CRKT original and the chinese copy at the same time--guess which sells better in an area where some 40 percent of the population lives beneath the federal poverty line. Master makes a great Benchmade copy, retails for maybe $29--blade steel is AUS-8.

i like gil hibbon knives. good stuff. some funky ass shit. i heard he once made a witch blade type bladed gauntlet for a married couple.

����That's pretty much the chinese worth ethic in general, isn't it? See, there's a reason I don't live in China.
����I've made a hobby of finding and collecting chinese folders that are flagrant knockoffs of the Kershaw Whirlwind. Am I the only person that's noticed that the Gerber Blackout and Whirlwind are exactly the same...?

~Zero

Whirlwind rings a bell, is that an assisted-opener? And Blackout has me stumped--I don't do a lot in major brands--as I rule, I usually have, say one or two each max of Spyderco, Buck, Boker, Fred Carter deisgn (Gigand), Camillus, maybe a few others. For all I know, I might have a Whirlwind in stock. (Darn that pesky short-term memory loss. I know I have something by Ken Onion and it's an assisted-opener.

http://knifeoutlet.com/shop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=KER1560

����My mistake. Research indicates that both the Blackout and Whirlwind are Ken Onion knives. I'll have to go back and inform the local Wal-Mart, then, that their sign is wrong and the Blackout is not manufactured by Gerber...

~Zero

I like automatics and butterflys, because I can take them out fast, good for self defense.

I'll bet you I can draw my manual knife faster than you can pull out your auto or your bali!

peace out.
sph3ric pyramid.

����I can open any of my manuals, even the ones without thumb studs, quite quickly. All it takes is practice.
����My crowning achievement, though, is my one hand fast blade opening of my Gerber CompactSport. This involves locking the pliers into the open position, drawing the blade (no thumb stud) and closing the pliers again.

~Zero

drawing knives eh ? id say the axis lock would be one of the fastest opening folders avaliable. that is except for something like the wave, cos that is designed to open once you draw it.

interesting sort of concept, but a little gimmicky

Autos and such have a high intimidation factor, but I question their tactical effectiveness. I've had some Boker Toplocks--great workmanship, so-so ergonomics. In genral, though, I don't like the idea of having a self-defense weapon that will get me busted if I use it. Alaska is fairly liberal, though--banned are autos, brass knucks, and gravity knives (and the stupid law does not say exactly what a gravity knife is). And if you want to make your knucks out of , say, ceramic or fiberglass or lexan or pyrex, that is legal--the law specifies "metal knuckles." Probably the same way in your state, check it out.