What type of gun would you keep in your home that would be used in case someone were to break in to steal stuff or to assault you?

oh, ya this is a serious post, i don't wanna hear people telling me to mount a howitzer in my front hallway :P

EDIT: i spelt some shit wrong

[This message has been edited by Pissed_Citizen (edited 12-24-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Pissed_Citizen (edited 12-24-2002).]

I point you towards this link
http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum22/HTML/000191.html

I have a 1911 and a highly trained 2 pound doorbell(chihuahauha) and an attack suger glider that will annoy the hell out of anyone trying to get me.

A tweleve gauge shotgun with a tight choke is ideal. The sound of a shotgun racking is enough to make any would be intruder think twice. Remington 870's go for on average $300.00 and Mossberg 500's are in the same ballpark.

Personally i'll grab my fortyfive and a flashlight, if I am out numbered or under gunned i'll retreat to my bedroom where I can take up a defensive position with my AR15.

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Originally posted by I Love Poop:
i'll retreat to my bedroom where I can take up a defensive position with my AR15.

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I can just imagine this...lol,

CTR

����Unless the attacker is packing heat I have the physical and strategic advantages from the entrances of my house. Suffice to say that me and my katana do not like you. Otherwise, I would have to second (third?) the shotgun idea.

~Zero

Note to self - Don't fuck with Poop.

I'm not going say that having an AR15 for home defense is a bad idea, but I think for my own safety and that of family and neighbors, the High powered .223 just has too much range. I think a handgun no bigger than a .45 is sufficient, and probably overkill unless the bastard trying to gain access is seven foot tall, and on a PCP trip.
I think a 9 mill., or a .40 cal is about as large a round as I would want to fire in my house, due to the risk of the round entering other rooms. Granted most of the time, the impact of the round hitting the target is going to reduce velocity enough to keep the risk at a minimum, I still feel that the risk is sufficient enough to rule out a semi automatic rifle. A .410, or 20 guage shotgun on the other hand, might be the way to go, if you use the right shell. Any suggestions on a comprimise between stopping power, and velocity in relation to shot size?

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I'm not going say that having an AR15 for home defense is a bad idea, but I think for my own safety and that of family and neighbors, the High powered .223 just has too much range.

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It really all depends on the type of load your using. I've got three magazines loaded up with federal M193 military ball ammo. The velocity window for this ammo is about 2700+ fps for realiable penatration and framentation. The round comes out of my muzzle at approximately 3,450 and at 50 yards is still traveling at 3,200. A nine millimeter would be more likely to over penatrate. I would question your thinking if you were to load up your riffle with M855 or SS109 steel penatrators for home defense.

00 BUCK is more likely to over penatrate than the ammunition I have loaded up in my AR15. Yet M193 packs enough inital punch to penatrate light body armor.

Alot of law enforcement agencies have abandoned the subgun for the AR15 equilivant.

I lock the door, and keep my Dobermann Starved all nigth.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum29/HTML/000675.html

For home defense there are two options in my opinion:

1) for pistol lovers - a .25 or .22 caliber semi-automatic loaded with ratshot (first couple of rounds) and standard lead rimfire cartridges (rest of clip)

2) for rifle/shotgun lovers - a mossberg 500/590 pump action shotgun with full magazine loaded with birdshot (first round) and 3/4 inch slugs (rest of magazine)

either one will function adequately for home defense needs up to and including multiple home invaders, but will fall short at the "Organized paramilitary strike" point. And if you are enduring such an attack, you are not really dealing with home defense so much as either a terrorist invasion or a SWAT team.

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Originally posted by ChaosWyrm:
1) for pistol lovers - a .25 or .22 caliber semi-automatic loaded with ratshot (first couple of rounds) and standard lead rimfire cartridges (rest of clip)

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I know there's rarely a one shot kill with any round, but a .22 is really pushing it in my opinion. There's plenty of people that have been shot full of holes with a .22 and still able to attack. I ralize that shot placement has alot to do with it, and I also realize that people can get filled up with 230 grain gold dots and still come at you. I'd still rather have the larger round any day though.

I've shot at bunny rabbits that can take a few .22lrs and still live, I haven't ran across any that can take a .45 yet. Not that I plan on getting attacked by bunnies(it's going to be the wild chickens), but .22 just isn't enough to depend on.

hahaha the little evil angry bunny rabbits are going to get you =)

A twenty two caliber pistol is a great starter pistol to learn the fundamentals of shooting. I'd never use one for personal or home defense. Anything nine millimeter and above for a semiauto or thirty eigth special and up when it comes to revolver calibers.

i have a 9mm at the top of the stairs and if they still come at me i get in my bedroom and take out my shotgun and run at the (robocop styleee)

actually a .22lr is more suitable for self defense than a .25acp.
a 22. has about a 10-15% greater one shot stop percentage than the .25. i believe the .22lr is in the low thirties where the .25 is in the low twenties or high teens.
lol at shooting someone with rat shot. that's like if you want to humiliate the intruder. You could just load your .45 with rat shot provided your pistol wouldn't jam up.

I personally believe that a good shotgun is best for home defense. And yes the sound of a round chambering from a pump action will likely make an intruder piss his/her pants

shotgun all the way

.38 revolver, 4 inch barrel. hollowpoint ammo

and

a good pump action shotgun. with birdshot.

Excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't a shotgun used for home defence extensifly damage the home? I mean I can see filling in a .45 hole in the wall, but a big spread of buckshot? Now I guess that I would take a damaged wall over having my family raped and murdered, but its a valid concern. You also have to think about protecting the home as well. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Buckshot is generally going thru walls, although birdshot is not. A shotgun with a tight choke will reduce the spread pattern and keep it nice and tight. Although if you your house is like my house and you're not shooting down thirty foot long hallways you really won't see the pattern open up to widely to begin with, even with a stock choke. It's really a toss up between all the firearms mentioned above. You generally don't want excessive penatration in a urban setting. When it comes to protecting your home, damaged items can be replaced, you and your family cannot be replaced.

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Originally posted by rlpinca:
I know there's rarely a one shot kill with any round, but a .22 is really pushing it in my opinion. There's plenty of people that have been shot full of holes with a .22 and still able to attack.

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The advantage to the smaller gun is this:
less muzzle flash, less recoil, less report, quicker re-aim. Ratshot because it's easier to hit with...the most important thing is being sure your first shot hits...pain is a wonderful distraction to rational and methodical thinking. You get hit, you will be rattled, even if you are still able to "attack". You won't get the Stopping power of a .40 or .45, but you also won't get the peripheral penetration of those rounds either. Honestly, if you're hitting center of mass fairly consistently it won't matter what caliber you fire, as long as they have the velocity to penetrate.

Of course, I prefer the shotgun myself, and for self defense outside the home (where you're more likely to face a situation where stopping power is more vital) I prefer a .40 semi-automatic pistol or a .38 revolver.

First off a shotgun is wonderful for close range but if someone breaks in and is running around room to room. They will grab that barrel of the shotgun and overpower you. The shotgun loads are risky especially since they spread and go through walls which may increase the chance of you killing another family member. Also the shotgun isnt good since you have to get close to the person to fire. The Smith & Wesson 38 special airweight CTG. THe gun is very small and the barrel is like an inch long fits in the palm of your hand. Its so small yet has such powerful loads. Use hollowpoint +p loads and your set. When you fire with a 9mm it goes into him but doesnt really knock the guy back giving you less time to fire again. When you fire a 38 the bullet is heavy so it knocks the guy back plus kills him. When you fire this small weapon it knocks him back to the ground then gives you time to give another shot. Since its +p it fires the bullet at an extra few hundread feet faster. The hollow point bullets explode on impact increasing the killing power by destroying a larger area. Plus its a revolver. Revolvers dont jam on you. If someone breaks into your house and you got an automatic that jams in the barrel or the clip your fucked. There are too many points of failiure in an automatic.


[This message has been edited by Viper229 (edited 12-31-2002).]

Viper, where did you obtain this "enlightening" information?

How can a .38 snubbie be more powerful than a 9mm automatic? With only an inch of barrel, all of that +P powder will just make a louder, bigger muzzle flash and not help with velocity.

I don't see how a .38 would "knock someone back" any better than a 9mm. Contrary to Hollywood belief, bullets do very little to actually shove someone down. They fall because the bullet is tearing into them, shaking up their nervous system quite a bit. I could see how a bowling ball flying at someone could knock them down, but a tiny piece of lead wouldn't before just going through them. the difference of mass between the .38 special and the 9mm parabellum is only a few seven-thousands of a pound. Also, a general rule to know is that if the gun is light, then recoil will be heavier. This means that it will affect how fast you can make a follow-up shot. The 9mm would be faster in this regard.

I think that hollow point bullets are pretty much a given.

Revolvers may be a tiny bit more reliable than automatics, but modern pistol technology has made automatics pretty darn reliable in their own right also.

You can purchase reusable "flash bang grenades" the flash has a temporally blinding effect if the intruder is looking right at it there vision done for a minute. The bang deathens your hearing and fucks up you balance. I have seen these devices demonstrated at the Soldier of Fortune Magazine convention they have in Vegas every year. It fucks you up even when you know its coming so the unsuspecting intruder will really be blind sided, law enforcement uses them for dynamic entrees.

** in know way am I suggesting to use that in the place of a gun, but if the intruder is in another room and you cant tell if its friend or foe it will give you that fraction of a second to get a leg on the intruder or set your sights on them.

[This message has been edited by dangerousdude (edited 01-05-2003).]

I think I'd pass on the shotgun, if only because of the danger of overpenetration. Does anybody know how far a .223 would penetrate? It seems like it'd be even worse, but then there's only one projectile, and I thought I remember reading that a .223 is less likely to overpenetrate than buckshot.

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Also the shotgun isnt good since you have to get close to the person to fire.

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lol are you sure about that?

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When you fire with a 9mm it goes into him but doesnt really knock the guy back giving you less time to fire again.

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Hahahahahahahahahahaha! I gave up after reading that a few times, i've got no clue as to what you were trying to say to us.

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When you fire a 38 the bullet is heavy so it knocks the guy back plus kills him.

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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

With your logic a 230gr .45ACP would penatrate the shell of a armored tank.

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When you fire this small weapon it knocks him back to the ground then gives you time to give another shot.

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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! You've been watching too many clint eastwood movies.

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The hollow point bullets explode on impact increasing the killing power by destroying a larger area.

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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

No. They aide in expansion =)

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clip

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Hahahahahaha! Magazine.

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There are too many points of failiure in an automatic.

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I've put thousands of rounds through many of my "automatics" and haven't experianced any failures.

Armed&Angry,

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Does anybody know how far a .223 would penetrate?

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It would depend on several factors,

(1) Ammo type - SS109 steel penatrator lol would not be reccomended if you're concerned about over penatration. Federal 5.56N M193 military ball has my thumbs up.

(2) Velocity when impacting a object. This round is ideal and produces dramatic effects when you achieve higher velocities, it will penatrate and fragment leaving a sizeable wound channel in soft tissue. Although when this round starts to decrease in velocity it tends to over penatrate. Length of barrel has a factor in this. Although in your home anything you hit would stay well within maximum effective range of this round. For your home it is just as safe as a common 9MM or .45

If I don't have a handgun on me, one is nearby, my AR15 is in my bedroom where if need be i'll take a defensive posture and protect my bedroom and the hallway.