planning 2 purchase 1 soon but i cant decide which i want 2 buy (first).

the assault rifle? i would get the fullsize one to match my dual gold plated desert eagles.

I would suggest that you learn enough to make your own decisions before you drop that kind of money. Would I be wrong in assuming you want a Desert Eagle and a H&K Mk23 as well?

its not that i dont know much about them, its just a matter of indecision. a dilema. i PLAN on eventually getting 1 of each. just thought id ask around 2 see what everybody thinks. thats all. and yea i want a mk23. dunno bout a desert eagle, never been a real big fan, but i definately want a mk23.

are you talking about he real steel or airsoft?

talkin about the real thing, not airsoft.

O'CYRUS, what country do you live in?

Switzerland?

quote:

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Originally posted by I Love Poop:
[b]O'CYRUS, what country do you live in?

Switzerland?[/B]

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US

No dice. HK doesn't offer the G-36 for import to US civilians. If you are a LEO you might be able to get your superior to sign off on it but you'll have to leave it behind when ya quit.

The closest you'll get to a G-36 is by buying an SL-8 (quickly: they're stopping production due to low sales). Dye it black. Get the magwell conversion so it'll take AR-15 mags. Then get the aftermarket pistol grip and stock. Do it IN THAT ORDER. If you don't, the ATF will shit on you for violating import bans. Even though its plain to see that the SL-8 has a thumbhole stock, the ATF classifies it as a pistol grip. Anyway, if you get the magwell conversion, you'll have the right US made parts count so its no longer classed as an import. You'll still be tied down to semi-auto only, unless you have a Class II manufacture license or put through the papers for a Class III weapon.
Confusing, eh?

More info can be found at www.hkpro.com in the discussion forums. Check out the Rookie Corner and Long Gun Talk.

Noah Out

quote:

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Originally posted by digitalnoah:
No dice. HK doesn't offer the G-36 for import to US civilians. If you are a LEO you might be able to get your superior to sign off on it but you'll have to leave it behind when ya quit.

The closest you'll get to a G-36 is by buying an SL-8 (quickly: they're stopping production due to low sales). Dye it black. Get the magwell conversion so it'll take AR-15 mags. Then get the aftermarket pistol grip and stock. Do it IN THAT ORDER. If you don't, the ATF will shit on you for violating import bans. Even though its plain to see that the SL-8 has a thumbhole stock, the ATF classifies it as a pistol grip. Anyway, if you get the magwell conversion, you'll have the right US made parts count so its no longer classed as an import. You'll still be tied down to semi-auto only, unless you have a Class II manufacture license or put through the papers for a Class III weapon.
Confusing, eh?

More info can be found at www.hkpro.com in the discussion forums. Check out the Rookie Corner and Long Gun Talk.

Noah Out

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funny, last i knew all u needed was an ATF form 7 (think thats what it is), and have the class III dealer fill it out with u.
wasnt 2 long ago that i asked everybody in the hk forums if hk wouldnt (or couldnt) import 2 us civillians. ultimately, they agreed that unless germany has some sort of law preventing it, they will. never got ne further input from them. i also emailed the atf (took about 2 weeks 4 them 2 get back 2 me) and they said they didnt see a problem. if the ppl at hkpro told me it was alright, and the atf didnt see a problem (not that most of them would know a damn thing about hk 2 begin with, but oh well), then i figured that there simply isnt 1.

Hmm. As I understand it, HK refuses to export to ANY US civilian. You say you wrote the ATF? Could you post the text of the letter you sent and the reply? I'd be interested in seeing it. As I understand the law, it violates both the AW ban and import regulations. If you have their written blessing, then Mazel Tov and post some pics of your new rig in action.

Maybe Poop could chime in? I'd be interested to hear what he has to say too.

quote:

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Originally posted by digitalnoah:
Hmm. As I understand it, HK refuses to export to ANY US civilian. You say you wrote the ATF? Could you post the text of the letter you sent and the reply? I'd be interested in seeing it. As I understand the law, it violates both the AW ban and import regulations. If you have their written blessing, then Mazel Tov and post some pics of your new rig in action.

Maybe Poop could chime in? I'd be interested to hear what he has to say too.

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actually it doesnt violate nething established by the nfa. not with the proper paperwork. i emailed the ATF several months ago and subsequently deleted their reply. sorry. as far as hk not importing 2 any civillians, im becomming rather conflicted all over again. lol which is a lil depressing 2 say the least. if i remember correctly, i think i have heard of some wealthy civillians with mp5s (key phrase being "i think"), so IF thats true, then theres nothing 2 fret about.

[This message has been edited by O'CYRUS (edited 12-19-2002).]

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As I understand the law, it violates both the AW ban and import regulations.

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I would say that's correct when it comes to the G36.

From my knownledge a G36 is post 89 only gun, therefore the SL8 would be the us friendly variation.

With that into consideration there would be no pre 86 transferable full auto sears available on a form four. A class iii dealer could obtain "dealer samples" a class ii dealer could manufacter a new full auto sear and do conversions (in both cases you're restricted to selling it to leo/military only considering the date on manufacter).

A common full auto project hk gun would be, the HK 91, 93, 53 (not too sure about this one), 94, etc.

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i think i have heard of some wealthy civillians with mp5s

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Sure there's plenty of MP5 *types* out there that have registered full auto sears. The lower is pre 89 (has all the applicable us vs import parts) and the sear is pre 86.

If you want a kick ass MP5 type, grab yourself a early eighties HK 94.

Toss on a three barrel lug, G36 mag flapper, a3 stock, get a full auto flemming conversion gun and cut the barrel down.

$200 tax stamp for the FA
$200 tax stamp for the SBR

and

$200 tax stamp if you want a supressor to attach to the three lug

I've seen early eighties semiauto HK94's going for on the low end of $2,000.00

When your done with the full auto conversion you're looking at about $7,000.00 - $9,000.00 plus or including all transfer fees and taxes.

Brand new HK 94's with A3 stock back in 1983 were listed at $720.00

Reason for cost is low importation numbers, here are figures.

1982 (1), 1983 (4010), 1984 (500), 1985 (4000), 1986 (4100), 1987 (1410), 1988 (1192), 1989 (0), 1990 (0), 1991 (420)

Total HK94 Imports from Germany: 15,633

You remember what happened in 86 right? watch the numbers decline with authority..

HK91 is a more common FA project gun,

Total HK91 Imports from Germany: 48,817

Doomed almost from the year of its introduction to survival in a growingly inhospitable world to its 'evil' features, the SP89 was HK's last attempt to sell a civilianized version of one of their famous full automatics, the MP5K. Made semiautomatic only by the same rules that allowed importation of the HK90 series, the SP89 was able to be imported for a few years before the furor of 'assault rifles' became the furor of 'assault weapons.

the SP89 commands prices in the range of $3200 then you still have to turn it into a sear gun =)

quote:

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I would say that's correct when it comes to the G36.

From my knownledge a G36 is post 89 only gun, therefore the SL8 would be the us friendly variation.

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what difference does it make if its a post 89 or not? a civillian CAN get post 89 "machine guns" (as they have so wrongfully been deemed by the ATF). as the ATF informed me when i wrote them, having a class III dealers license 2 obtain samples is not the same as gaining full ownership. 2 gain full ownership u have 2 fill out a specific form with a class III dealer and renew it regularly. given that, theres no doubt about the legality of it. if u think i am incorrect or being untruthful, i encourage any1 and every1 of u 2 personally email the ATF. if nothing else, email them just because ur curious.

if ne1 would like the email address of the BATF's National Licensing Center, its: nlc@atla.atf.treas.gov.

Yea, but who has the time or money for a dealer permit? Not to mention the "pop inspections" the ATF can do.

And HK still won't send you one even as a dealer sample unless you have a pretty well established business selling to LE/Military types.

Now that thats out of the way, I would get the G-36K. K= Kurtz= Short. 12.5" barrel IIRC. Once you get the conversion done on an SL-8, you can register it as a SBR for $200 (Keep that US part count in mind) down to just about anything you want. There still isn't a cheap aftermarket folding stock so you're pretty much at HK Sterling VA's mercy. Special Weapons makes a non-folding stock but many have complained that its LOP is too long.
You might remember SW from their atrocious copies of the HK 91, 3 and 4. Rumor has it that they're soon getting out of the civilian market altogether. Fine with me as I dont have anything made by them. Minute-of-PiePlate accuracy isn't for me. Still, that means no replacement parts for owners

No worries though, Vektor is supposed to start marketing a semi-auto HK-33 clone soon. Within a year is their current timeline. No info on the website though.

I'm eyeballing the Robinson M96 pretty hard these days though. Its a copy of of the venerable Stoner 63. One big advantage is that you can legally modify it to belt-feed without cutting the reciever. I had a chance to use one at the range a couple of weeks ago and was very impressed. I'd guess it wieghs in at around 8lbs (heavy, I know) but double-taps are a snap. It ate every type of 223 ammo we used without even a hiccup. Also, the M96 takes AR-15 mags which is a big plus.

Maybe I'll find one under the tree this year. Then again, probably not.

Noah Out

[This message has been edited by digitalnoah (edited 12-19-2002).]

[This message has been edited by digitalnoah (edited 12-19-2002).]

quote:

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Originally posted by digitalnoah:
[B]Yea, but who has the time or money for a dealer permit? Not to mention the "pop inspections" the ATF can do.

Now that thats out of the way, I would get the G-36K.

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thank u 4 actually making a reply that some what pertained 2 the topic posted (not that i dont appreciate everybodys input, because i really do). and once again, its not a dealer's FFL, its a form 4 actual 'ownership'. NOT a class III dealer's license. NOT.

Not to be rude, but what part of "HK won't sell you a G-36 as a civilian" didn't you understand.
As I see it, you have 2 options, in order of likelyhood them coming to pass:

1: Get a SL-8 and dress it up
2: Become a well respected dealer.

The ATF might not have a problem with it (doubtful as its a foreign gun) but HK WILL NOT SELL IT TO YOU.

And one more thing: Stop using #s as words. Its confusing as all hell

Noah Out

quote:

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Originally posted by digitalnoah:
Not to be rude, but what part of "HK won't sell you a G-36 as a civilian" didn't you understand.
As I see it, you have 2 options, in order of likelyhood them coming to pass:

1: Get a SL-8 and dress it up
2: Become a well respected dealer.

The ATF might not have a problem with it (doubtful as its a foreign gun) but HK WILL NOT SELL IT TO YOU.

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thats the thing, HK wont be selling it 2 me. the class III dealer located in the US will be. i could see it being a problem if i were buying it directly from HK, but thats not the case.

If you find a class III dealer willing to sell a G-36 to a civilian, back out of the deal because this is a LE/Military ONLY gun. The dude on the other end of the deal is probably either scum looking to take your money or a LEO trying to pad his arrest count this month. Hmm That reminds me, I have a couple of G-36s for sale. Cash, small bills preferably and NO CODs!

tell me, where is it EXPRESSLY WRITTEN that the g36 is strictly an LE/military firearm. and isnt it common belief that select fire weapons in general r exclusively LE/military?

FOPA of May, 1986 froze the supply of transferable MGs and conversion devices.

GCA of 1968 stopped importation of transferable MGs. However, transferable MGs that were exported can be reimported and retain their transferable status.

Individuals can no longer make and register a MG unless they are doing so to sell to an approved govt agency.

A licensed manufacturer and SOT can make all the MGs he want, but they are dealer samples that cannot be transfered to individuals.

Unless you want to get licensed, your only way to get an MG legally is to buy a transferable registered MG or registered conversion device.

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what difference does it make if its a post 89 or not? a civillian CAN get post 89 "machine guns"

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lol it gets confusing, but even if that is true to my knowledge there are no transferable sears or conversion kits prior to 1986 for the firearm you seek.

I've not even been able to determine the legality of the SL8 to G36 coversions that are rapidly catching on. Which is basically a dress up. No MG.

Look into the FOPA and GCA for some intresting reading.

The assault weapons ban, us parts vs import parts and crime bill, make for more intresting reading.

Honestly it's a migrane headache waiting to happen. But the law is the law.

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tell me, where is it EXPRESSLY WRITTEN that the g36 is strictly an LE/military firearm

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Compare the manufacter date on the reciever and full auto sear of the G36 to the guidlines of the FOPA when it comes to registering a MG.

lol look ppl...some guy working 4 the ATF told me that i can own a post '80 whatever 'maching gun' (even an HK of ne sort) as a private citizen of civilian status...if somebody working 4 tha ATF told u that, ud probably believe them 2. lol i just sent their bitch asses another email. now 2 wait another week or so b4 i finally get my email.

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if somebody working 4 tha ATF told u that, ud probably believe them 2

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lol no, i'd probabaly get a second opinion by calling back and trying to change my voice =)

Don't email them, there should be a local BATF field office in your area that you can call.

Honestly, scratch the batf call up the NFA office. They are the ones that have the ultimate power to approve or disapprove your form four =)