i have no real intrest in this, but i just saw on the news that they were considering banning all handguns (except for sports and cops and stuff) in the entire country. IMO, for what its worth, a handgun has little use apart from concealed self defence (not a big need in sleepy town). its not like you go hunting with them or anything.

we already have a ban on automatic weapons and semiautomatic weapons with a certain sized clip. i think, i never paid too much attention to it.

someone on the report brought up the point that most crimes are commited with illegal weapons anyway, so its a bit pointless, but people are a bit reactionary (some fellow in the eastern states killed 2 and wounded a few more in a university lecture (economics)shooting a little while back). me, i just don't like guns being used against people, although it seems great fun (although ive never tried) just shooting at targets and that. like archery.

they couldn't ban rifles here because of the rural nature and the amount of farming though.

that guy who shot up the uni in melbourne had his guns legally. Alougth its one nutter out of thousands that have guns and don't kill inoccent people it shouldnt spoil it for everyone else. If someone really wanted guns(m16,uzi,mp5,ect ileagal stuff)than it wouldnt be to hard if you were some badass gangster.

your country sucks, join the club...

i reckon it is gay how they are doing this to us its sooo fucked up. Making handguns illeal will not do shit at fucking ALL. if i wanted i could go down to a suburb next to me and buy any thing i want imported in. Changing laws is gay. My dad was just able to hold on to his semi auto shottie and thats because he is a farmer an it is only a two shot too. i mean fucking hell it is exactly the same as a double barrel it makes no sense at all. :@

Well, there's not a whole lot to say about it.

Prepare to go the route of England - Crime will rise, the average citizen's capacity to defend himself from said crime will drop like a rock, and your government will stick its fingers in its ears and loudly proclaim that it's plan for the Good Of The People is working flawlessly.

Been there, done that.

~Zero

our capacity to defend ourselves is already rock bottom. its not like every second man conceals a pistol in this country. in my lifetime, ive only seen a couple in bar bralws in which no one was hurt. things may be different, as that was about 10 years ago, but its not likely

yeah, the fuckers are ruining it for the kids.

THEYRE RUINING IT FOR MEEEE!

someone should go knife someone and watch them suggest they ban knives

I thought they already have baned knifes you cant carry them around on the street or any weapons for that matter

Do you really think people dont carry kniveS? lol, people get shot every day, except some guy goes and rampages and people are like 'we better do something about it'

For example, the washington sniper, you dont think the yanks are gonna ban rifles because of him?

[This message has been edited by ComradeAsh (edited 10-28-2002).]

Thats true laws dont stop anybody.

It's called victim disarmament. They make sure you can't legally bear arms and that way only criminals have them. Doesn't it feel great?! Your government is taking your taxes and aggrevatedly sodomizing you with them!

But shouldn't this be in Right to Bear Arms?
Maybe you are unfamiliar with that. Haha, your government's framers suck, haha!

I dont think australia has a 2nd ammendment is it?

Hi ComradeAsh.

No.

Australians do not have a Second Ammendment Right To Keep And Bear Arms.

Under the Imperial Acts Applications Act, our Constitution DOES, however, give us (in theory,)the RTKABA under the old British Bill Of Rights. (Which served as the precedent for the US RTKABA).

Unfortunately, the old English Law no longer applies under either Australian or British Law.

No less an Authority than the High Court Of Australia, has decreed that, under the present Australian Constitution, the ONLY Rights expressly garuanteed to Australian Citizens are:

a.)The right to freedom of worship

And

b.)The right to trial by jury

In Australia, as in the UK, Parliament is Supreme.

As one of our High Court Justices declared, only a few years ago, "Parliament can legislate to kill all blue-eyed babies if it chooses to do so."

To fellow Australian members of this board.

I have been following the news regarding the Monash University shootings very closely.

But so far, have been able to come up with little hard intelligence regarding this latest spree killing.

What little I have found is:

I can confirm that the Monash University killer was indeed licenced to own handguns.

I have not been able to find much further detail regarding the shooter, beyond the following:

The gunman is an Asian male, 36 years of age.

He was in possession of 7 pistols at the time of his arrest.

He is described in the media as a "high performing" economics student.

So far this case raises more questions than it answers.

1.) The gunman is described as a "high performing" economics student.

BUT.

He speaks such poor English, that he had to be provided with an iterpreter in court!!??

How the hell can he be a "high performing" student if he doesn't speak English?

2.)The State of Victoria does NOT recognise out of State licences.

Under Victorian State Law, you must obtain a licence within 3 months to have custody of a firearm in that State.

According to the media, the Monash University killer had only been in Australia for a mere 6 weeks, and he was legally able to obtain 7 handguns!

Even if he was here for 6 months, I would find this highly suspect.

It is very difficult to get a pistol licence in Victoria.

Applicants must go through a long and frustrating beaurocratic maze of background checks and mandatory "cooling off periods", prove that they are indeed members of a pistol club etc, before the Firearms Registry will even consider their application.

Yet this fellow lives here a mere few weeks, and is legally able to buy 7 pistols?

Again, he does not speak English, so how does he navigate the maze of forms etc, necessary to obtain a licence?

How does he understand the commands of a range officer?

Since the State of Victoria doesn't recognise out-of-State licences. I have to ask myself:

"What is so special about this guy?"

Is he:

a.)Is he a member of a foreign Military or Police Force?

b.)An employee of an International Security Firm?

c.)What, (if any), licence or "special need" did the Victorian Police recognise as grounds to grant him a licence?

I'm afraid that I smell something fishy about this case. (Looking at the Sporting Shooters of Australia's web page today, I'm obviously not the only one who does).

Further questions about this case are:

1.) Is there corruption within the Victorian Firearms Registry?

2.)Is there corruption within the Pistol Club that the perp allegedly attended?

3.)Are the above in corrupt collusion with each other?

4.)Is there corruption within the Immigration Department?

5.)Is there corruption within the staff of Monash University?

6.)Are these last two, in corrupt collusion with each other?

These questions need to be publicaly asked, and answered.

Yet the media shows little interest in doing so.

Meanwhile, the anti-gun fanatics, are all but dancing in the blood of the victims, as is every cheap political hack desperate for a headline.

If any board member here can point me in the right direction, I would like to dig up more information on this matter.

PS

Since the media shows so little interest in asking the fairly obvious questions I have raised above, perhaps we should do it for them.

Take any, and every, opportunity to ask these questions, (politely of course), on radio talkback. And Australian media discussion boards).

For those interested in following this topic,
I suggest you visit the Guestbook at:
http://www.ssaa.org.au

I regret to say that I have not been able to come up with very much more information on this matter.

What additional information I have is as follows:

The gunman was licenced to possess 7 pistols, but used only one in his rampage.

The gunman shot and killed two people and wounded five others.

The deceased victims were both young Asian males.

Mr. William Wu 26 years of age.

A citizen of the Peoples Republic of China, resident in Hong Kong.

Mr.Stephen Chan 26 years of age. An Australian citizen

Both young men were Honours Students in the Department of Econometrics and Business Statistics.

The Monash University gunman was a member of the Springvale Pistol Club. An almost exclusively Vietnamese club.

As such, range officers and instructors, probably DO give range commands in Vietnamese.

BUT.

Before a firearms licence can be issued, one must pass an exam in firearms safety.

In my own experience this is usually conducted in English.

I have serious doubts that any police examiner would consider an interpreter here. (However, if I am wrong in this last matter, please correct me).

Victorian State firearms laws became some of the most stringent in Australia under the Labor administration of former Premier John Cain, and were further tightened under the Kennet Government.

I am somewhat more conversant with New South Wales State firearms laws. However, since 1996, there has been much greater uniformity in National firearms control policy.

Under New South Wales law you must first obtain a firearms licence. This involves a detailed examination of the applicants knowledge of firearms safety.

The applicant must also prove "genuine need" to own a gun.
(Membership of a Target Shooting Club, is recognised as "genuine need" under present State laws).

Once all of the above proceedures have been satisfactoraly completed, THEN, you may apply for a licence.

This takes on average a period of 5-6 weeks to process, including the mandatory 28 day "cooling off" period and all Police records checks.

Once you have been granted your firearms licence, you may apply for a pistol licence. This usually involves attending at least 7 lectures and supervised range instruction, spread over a period of 7 weeks.

Having passed this training, you may now apply to have your licence upgraded to a category "H" licence. Once again, this will take an average of 5-6 weeks to process, and pass registry.

Now that you have your licence, MOST clubs will insist upon imposing a calibre restriction, (usually .22 rimfire), on the type of pistol you may use during the "probationary stage" of your club membership.

You will now need an official "permit to aquire". Once again, this will take an average of 5-6 weeks to pass registry.

Under New South Wales law you must still undergo a mandatory 28 day "cooling off" period for EACH susequent aquisition.

Under Victorian State law,however, second and subsequent firearms permits are issued after 7 days.

Let's look at the time frame here:

1.) Minimum of 5 weeks to licence.

2.)Add 7 weeks for pistol training.

3.)Add another 5 weeks for first permit.

4.) Add one week for EACH of 6 subsequent pistols.

This makes for theoretical MINIMUM of 23-24 weeks to become legally licenced to possess 7 handguns!

Even if this guy put in his application the moment he set foot on Australian soil, I find this whole scenario hard to credit.

Again, this case seems to offer more questions than answers.

The Springvale Pistol Club, to which the perpetrator belonged, is described as a "wall-to-wall" Vietnamese Club.

The perpetrator has such a poor command of English, that one cannot help but wonder if their is some "ghosting" going on at the Springvale Pistol Club, whereby, an English speaking member of the Club, (possibly an office bearer), cuts through the mountain of paperwork for new applicants, and possibly fronts up for them at the Firearms Registry. Giving them all they need to pass the criteria.

If, as I am begining to suspect, that some senior officials of the Springvale Pistol Club are corrupt. Then I think that the Club, it's officials, and their relationship with Victorian Firearms Registry Officers should publically investigated.

PS

If anyone here can find out a little bit more on this matter, I would appreciate it if they would post any links, or refer me to any news articles that they may have come across.

Regards,

NADA


[This message has been edited by NADA (edited 10-30-2002).]

Rant mode on.

This "blame game" is old as mankind itself

Blame this, blame that, make it "evil", get the sheeple to be completly igonrant and to belive your word is the complete story, make it seem like a good start for a "utopian nation" and get a little cash and power while at it.
It goes in pratice and everything and everyone is off to hell in a handbasket.

Rant mode off.

Now that I am done ranting, I will get back to the topic.

NADA, I argee that this man knew the right people in right places with the right connections.
That sort of networking can speed up any process you need or want.

In my opinion though, guns, like everything else in this world, are things.
They are inanimate objects.
They can't do anything by themselves, no matter how "scary-looking" they seem.

I understand how do people pass judgement or belive the truth that's been "distorted" on topics they do not completly know about.

I just don't understand the reasoning why we all could be so lazy and ignorant at certain times that it ends up harming everyone except those who passed those laws in the first place.

Rant mode on.

This "blame game" is old as mankind itself

Blame this, blame that, make it "evil", get the sheeple to be completly igonrant and to belive your word is the complete story, make it seem like a good start for a "utopian nation" and get a little cash and power while at it.
It goes in pratice and everything and everyone is off to hell in a handbasket.

Rant mode off.

Now that I am done ranting, I will get back to the topic.

NADA, I argee that this man knew the right people in right places with the right connections.
That sort of networking can speed up any process you need or want.

In my opinion though, guns, like everything else in this world, are things.
They are inanimate objects.
They can't do anything by themselves, no matter how "scary-looking" they seem.
It's when that certain object is in someone's hand, THEN it's what in their minds that makes it so deadly.

I understand how do people pass judgement or belive the truth that's been "distorted" on topics they do not completly know about.

I just don't understand the reasoning why we all could be so lazy and ignorant at certain times that it ends up harming everyone except those who passed those laws in the first place.

Hi gombowlzombie.

I couldn't agree more.

We shouldn't pass stupid and unenforceable laws.

The Monash shooter had the money and connections to get himself "legally licenced" to own pistols. (Although his subsequent conduct proved that he was the last sort of person to have access to a weapon of ANY sort.)

He was disarmed by a University lecturer and two other students.

Not a single person other than the criminal, in this case had access to a gun. If one them had, the gunman may have been taken out before he had a chance to kill and injure so many people.

The gun laws are a farce. Even if guns were banned entirely, men like the Monash gunman, would still have the wherewithal and the contacts to buy their guns on the black market.

Australian laws suck

I am 16 years old, and I live in Australia,
I feel that I have not lived my 16 years to the max.

I have not been able to receeve a BB gun for my birthday, so that I can muck around in the back yard with it!

A BB gun or other Air powered rifle (inluding paintball guns ) are considered Firarms and are illegal unless you have a licence


A paintball gun being a sporting item is slightly differentto a BB gun, but not much, you have to do a course with the police once a year to obtain a licence wich allows you to keep it in your house, this licence of course costs money!

You used to be able to buy this really nice knife in any army disposal store, i had a knuckle guard on it so that if you slipped while you were cutting somthing you would not rip your hand apart. The Australian Government issued a ban on this knife because somebody might use the knuckle guard as knuckle dusters (wich are also illegal) and punch somebody whith it, I mean if you had a knife in your hand that had a knuckle guard on it, and for some reason you wanted to hurt somebody pretty bad, would you punch them or stab them? c'mon

They also issued a ban on a knife called the "Ventura Defence Knife", because it has the word "Defence" in the name, they were scared that people would panic after seeing the name of this knife, because it indicates that there is somthing that they would need to defend against.

If everybody carried some type of gun around with them, then people would think twice about robbing a petrol station, because there are 5 other people in there who have guns and could blow your head off if you even tried.

You Australians should remember the incident in Port Arthur, is Tasmania, wher that guy shot and killed 14 people, if there had not been a ban on guns at that time, any one of those fourteen people could have pulled out a 44 Magnum and blown his balls right out from underneath his dick.

Well I leave you with these words:

If you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns!

quote:

---

Originally posted by BlowStuffUp:


Australian laws suck
...
If you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns!

---

I happen to agree with one of these comments. The first is a half-truth. It is related to what i believe was touched on above. The majority of our laws are pretty good, and suit our environment. However, the main problem is our lack of a bill of rights. So far, our only real legal rights are all contained in common law precedents. A bit of a shit, really. We don't even have the right to free speech, technically, but there are precedents allowing for an extent of it.
Personally, my experience with firearms is minimal. Very minimal. However, i believe Australia can get along just fien without handguns or other firearms given to the public. If one wishes to possess a firearm, then sure, they should go through the supposedly stringent testing in place now. The laws now are really working fine, it is no small miracle that we do not have more violent crimes involving firearms, however.

The second comment i agree wholeheartedly with. I'm 17, and can relate closely to 'BlowStuffUp'. However, BB guns aren't too hard to get, i recommend going to south africa for any items like bb guns, telescopic batons, lockpick sets (a rarity in Aus.), etc. Getting it through customs is the only small problem, but the odds are still fairly good here. Just don't pack it in your carry-on luggage, if you do, you're a fucking idiot and don't deserve it.

ta ta

Hmm, do these shitty laws apply to collectables?

Because under american law, lugers and mauser broomhandles, although dont meet no liscence needed criteria are excepted. (I think thats right anyway)

Sorry for the double post.
Oh well.

The last time I heard that if it can be loaded and go bang, it does.
Including California.

American Civil War are a gray area, I belive.

American Civil war are definate yeah go for it, because they are pre 1896, however they exepmted lugers *looks for site*

Another thing that really burns me up about Australian law is:

The laws on Fireworks, Firworks can not be sold to the general public or be used by the general public in Australia. You need to have a licence to be able to purchase and use firworks, this includes small bottle rockets.

You can however buy them in Canberra(our capital city[go figure!]),but then if you are caught using them outside of Canberra you get into alot of trouble.

I think it sucks, firworks are so cool yet I cannot use them, It is also very hard for me to get any, as I do not have my Drivers licence yet, and Canberra is about a ten hour drive from where I live. and my family has no reason to go there EVER, but even if i did get down there there is a tiny matter of getting them over the borde(not too hard), but with petrol prices as high as they are in Australia, would it really be worth the twenty hour drive and the 100 bucks in petrol just to get a few firworks?

please post your oppinions on this subject, I would like to hear what you think about it, especially all you Ausies out there on TOTSE.

hey mate, if your going over be sure to get me some too