ive heard a lot of bickering over the best martial art. im a metal over muscle man myself, but i think i want to learn a martial art too. i've heard that "Gow ga" or "San soo" kung fu are the most deadly, but i dont know. what do you guys think and why?

I know it's a vague answer and I've said it many times before. The bset martial art is whatever you practice. Learn whatever you can and get good at it. A school that teaches a good art in a sloppy way is pretty much useless. However a school that teaches a marginally effective art, but teaches it well is worth every penny.

You're just going to have to look around your area and watch a few classes to see what's going to be effective for you and your personal qualities.

There is no such thing as the perfect martial art. Nor is there any one art that is better than another/all the rest. The art is not better, only the practioner. But, remember that on any given day, anyone can beat anyone.


It depends from your goals, if you want be in comptitions, or self defense. Give us more detail.

The most deadly is between the legs kick and eye gouges, if you want something usefull for freestyle full contact competitions, you need ground game. And as many MMA people said and we have discussed, For stand up, the best you may have is Karate Kyokushin, Muay Thai, Kick Boxing, but you can take anything and make use of it.

Watch or get into K-1, youll understand

Because as it was said, The art doesnt make a fighter, but the fighter does.

In pure standup competitions freestyle, Kyokushin, Kick boxing and Muay Thai have provem to be effective. In short, anything that is full contact will help, including boxing, but I didnt mention it cause in standup competitions you have kicks.

Let the art teach you, but dont let it make you someone or somethiung, you be what and who you want.

And if its for the street, well take an auto-defense course and learn how to kick balls. And the laws in your state heh. And add whatever you want to that, you will make it what you will become in your goal.

quote:

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Originally posted by johnny doe:
ive heard a lot of bickering over the best martial art. im a metal over muscle man myself, but i think i want to learn a martial art too. i've heard that "Gow ga" or "San soo" kung fu are the most deadly, but i dont know. what do you guys think and why?

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Initially, Jeet Kune Do and cocept fighting are the most advanced, since the knowledge is a derrivative of every single art and regime.
These cocepts are then modified to work properly in real life, in the world as it presently exists, from everything you can think of. Yet to find an institute which will teach that is rare. mostly, cocept fighting can be all that you learn and intergrated into instinct, modified , of course, to work. It is not all physical of course, remember, strategy, philosophy, anotomy,phisiology, nuerology and everything else that must be known.

[This message has been edited by Blaire (edited 11-01-2002).]

KRAV-MAGA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I personally like Akido.

Can Krav-Maga be considered a martial art?

You realy need one thats good in kicks and punches and doesn't have any of the religous or ceramonial crap

The only thing that will help you in real life is an art in wich you actually train on a real opponent whos also tryng to get you.

grappeling kicks ass

quote:

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Originally posted by OniOuji:
You realy need one thats good in kicks and punches and doesn't have any of the religous or ceramonial crap

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Not all are religous or ceramonial, but you need mental stability. I used to kick box and did basic kung-fu with no priticular style. You need to be mentally harnessed and focused at all times, loose you calm for a second and an axe kick on your head will KILL you. In the end it isn't all about who can kick or punch harder, but who has the mental strength andendurace to go with it. Try using punches and kicks alone to fight multiple opponents on the street, its not gonna happen. Anticipation is the name of the game. I know most of this first hand because I street fight on the occasion. But yea...

acutually, wu-shu is quite the big boy of them all

The best martial art is going to be more interested in teaching practical fighting tecniques than preserving a bunch of obsolete traditions. A good litmus test is how much time they spend sparing. The more time sparing the better. Also, katas and forms arn't bad, but too much emphasis on them detracts from more important things.

Fighting is a pragmatic diciplin. If the tecniques are too difficult, complicated, and awkward you will not be able to employ them in a time of need. Avoid schools do not alow for change, like traditional schools.

hey first of all I think fighting should be natural, a natural way to defend yourself, none of those dumbass forms and stuff, krav maga is actually pretty good if you wanna defend yourself in the street, but like the guys here said before, its the practitionner of the martial art that will determine if he will be a good fighter or not..

I NEVER WANNA HEAR SHIT LIKE jeet kun do is the best one cuz its made by bruce lee(bruce lee doesnt actually know how to throw a proper punch) or shit like wushu is the daddy of them all or something like that, cuz its not true, THERE IS NO BEST MARTIAL ART, get that in your head!!!

and I also dont recommend doing kung fu for starting out, usually king fu "masters" theese days (exept the rare actual masters)
just make you do plenty of traditions and stuff just to get you into that spiritual shit so you think its "cool" and so they take your money.I recommend karate for starting.

If youre starting martial arts one of the things to rememeber when looking for a school is so it has alot of sparring, doing the technique in a real situation at real speed is the best way to learn.

one thing u gotta know is that if the martail art ends in "Do" (way) then it is mainly for self defense if it ends in jitsu then it is mainly for offene. This only realy applies to orental martial arts.

For instance Kendo has an opposite in Kenjitsu which is very hard to find a trainer for. But if you can go for it, u said u like metal...

I agree that no one single martial art is greater than any one other, it's the practitioner, but martail arts like Karate and Kendo which teach routines and if he does this then you do that, sort of things are usually bested by martial arts like Jeet Kun Do, Kung/Gung Fu, Ninjitsu which teach you to use your body to best affect. Oh and by the war...ninJITSU (the art of the assassin)

OKay, study these arts and you'll be the ultimate fighter. Tae Kwon do, for the basics. After several years, move on to Shorin Ryo Karate-Do. Then, Learn Ju-Jitsu, and finally Wah-Lum Kung Fu.

REmember that the time to master an art can be many years.

I got in an arguement with a friend the other day about the best martial art. He's a ninjutsu practioner(according to him at least) and he claims that ninjutsu is the best martial art because it teaches many other things besides close combat ( stealth, warfare etc.). Apparently to some people praticing a martial art is like a religion; They choose it because they believe it's the best path and because it has certain things the other arts don't have and they blindly stick by it.

They also don't modify it because that will ruin the art, Yet in ancient China, Practioners of a certain martial arts would improvise it according to certain circumstances such as their body frame. Martial arts in ancient times were created according to the needs of the practioner. We all know the story of the Okinawans and their karate; They were oppresed by samurai armies and most of the time these samurai dressed in armor so therefore the karateka had to emphasize on skills that sacrificed speed to build up strength in order to pierce their opponent`s armor. In modern times attackers no longer wear heavy armour and these ancient skills had to be modified for effective street combat.

Personally I believe that there is no such thing as the ultimate martial art. One practices an art, finds it's faults and improvises it by adding skills of other arts. Just like Daniel Insanto said: "Absorb what is useful".

Although one thing that does bother me is the commercialization of the martial arts. I've seen schools that go as high as $400 per membership. It seems shameful that monks in ancient times preached against greed and thought their arts without monetary gain only to find people today exploiting these fine arts.

I suggest you find a good martial art school that charges a fair membership rate, learn all that you can from it and improvise by learning skills from books and videos of other martial arts.

Just my 2 cents.

first of all experience is the great equalizer i don,t care how bad people think they are if you don,t test yourself occasionally in real life heavy situations you,ll never know what truly is, I derive immense pleasure from from confronting people who try to posture that they are hard I can,t ride the city bus system anymore in san diego because there are guys who have vowed to kill me as a result of these scenes anyway if you are a calm individual and don,t freak out in a fight study aikido because if you tweak any of the moves a little you can really fuck people up and it,s good for multiple attackers also your hardest punch to the center of the face with your 3 knuckles on the right side of your right fist is essential or the opposite on your left hand

I went down to london today and several guys who where with me bought numchucks one guy does some art that focuses on weapons begins with a K the other was just trying to be cool and just bought a pair that looked realy good but the other guy pointed out how crap they where. neway they are REALY painful, they seriously cain and its realy easy to hit your self. I would never fight a guy with numchucks now unless u know what your doing i got his in the side and it realy hurt. how do you defend from numchucks, why did i bother posting this, am i bored

che4rev and CHOKOBUTT
are right.

Sorry to tell you guys, maybe Bruce Lee did explore a lot, but as CHOKOBUTT he cant even throw a good punch, Bruce Lee took qhatever he thought was good in theory but never tried it in real life and never fought in a ring.

Some one here said take Aikido to defend against multiple opponents, sorry my friend but thats the worst bullshit you could have said, I dont know why people tak crap without knowing anything. Aikidos defense agianst multiple opponents is simply a kata with opponets in it, thats it.

And whoever said to take TaeKwanDo and mix with others, thats another useles reply based on opinion with no points, TKD has sadly never proven itself in any full contact competitions and its the most trained sport in america, Muay Thai, Kyokushin and Kick Boxing produced a lot of great champions and fighters.

I took aikido for awhile and found that it was quite effective. Especially in a situation where you don't have very much room.

TKD can be effective if the person is good at it. I've seen people use it with very good results. I don't necessarily reccomend it, but if you are good, it will work.

The funky sounding shit is about the same. They're not going to teach you anything special or secret. It's usually just a different name for the same old shit.

I agree that Bruce Lee was an actor and may or may not have had any real skills. I definately wouldn't want to fight him though. He'd most likely whoop my ass in half a second.


The most effective martial art is whatever you learn and get proficient at. Just like CHOKOBUTT said(welcome to totse by the way), there is no best martial art. That's like saying that there is a best soda for everyone, it just don't work that way. It all depends on what holds you interest long enough to actually learn the shit.

ive heard about that ninjitsu, from what i heard its some pretty crazy shit, where would i find info about it?

hahahah, bruce lee cant even throw a proper punch... read some of jeet kune do and realize that you will get your ass kicked by nearly any martial artist there is, because bruce lee punched like a boxer, and ive seen boxers take down muay thai fighters in a matter of seconds, and ive seen muay thai fighters take down karate gays in a matter of milli seconds.
in bruce lee's punch, he uses his back leg as a piston to push all his weight into it...he uses all of his sholder power (which also covers up your chin (k.o. point)and he pushes the weight into his front leg, which puts weight in the punch (and much more).
a karate punce is the most shitest thing i have ever seen. and would make a boxer laugh if he got hit by it.
also bruce lee says that the fighter who is a better puncher will ultimately win, which explains the muay thai guy getting his ass kicked.
coz u cant kick when your getting power punched by a boxer in the head. its faster which causes more damage in short amount of time. and muay thai fighters only learn to take the hit on there arm (which blocks vision)... boxers (and bruce lee)learn to dodge, go under, around the punches, parry, and block with there arm if they have to. by dodging and weving around the punches, you leave you apponent open for a spectacular counter attack.
karate teaches you allot of the mentle disaplin but you will get your ass kicked by a boxer. because your legs are what makes a fighter.there not the carrage that moves the horse. slide and glide and float like a butterfly, nothing can hit you, and when u see the opening sting like a bee with full weight and sholderpower.

Alright, you've said that it's hard to pick a martial art as "best" but how about best for a woman?..

I'm looking to start a martial art of some kind.. goals mainly being self defense (being a woman means that sorta thing is never wasted).. fitness.. I'm in pretty good shape already, but I'd just like to be taking a regular class anyway, you can never be too fit, imo..

there's an aikido school near here I went to visit a couple weeks ago.. but they don't have any females at all studying there, which put me off a little.. kinda suggests that any women that do start there don't tend to continue..

the only other thing that may be important to note is that I'm somewhat taller and well built than most women.. far from being fragile, I'm 6ft tall, with an appropriate weight for my height..

so, recommendations?.. thoughts?

TKD may work against untrained people and thats it. Yes Logan a boxer wins, and just to tell you in Muay Thai they do box they also grab in the clinch and knee you in the face. Yes karate(kyokushin) doesnt work against a boxer because of the hand work, and its easier to win by beeng agressive, but against a good kick boxer or Thai figter boxers satnd little chance, and against a kyokushin fighter who adopts boxing defense a boxer is useles.

Just to tell you, I dont know were you saw these fights but its always different for both sides, agree?

That why in mixed martial arts stand up events, the 3 arts that do well are kickboxing Muay Thai and kyokushin, of course mixed with boxing.

It doesnt matter how well Bruce Lee punched if he never used it in a ring, you can train as long s you want, but someone wiht more experience wiill beat you, even if you have trained a lot more ealrlier before he did.

By sayng someone doesnt know how to throw a punch doesnt mean he cant throw it technicaly, but in a fight, thats the question.

floating palm... dont remember the traditional name for it and dont know much about it. It is probably not the best but i heard that a floating palm guy killed Si Jo Bruce (Lee) by hitting him on the neck with their special chi punches amd that caused his brain thingy.

Read this site:
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com

Personally I'd suggest miltary combatives (dont know if this could actually be called martial art...) for beginning. If nothing else, this stuff is practical and, especially, quickest to learn. Krav-maga would probably fall under this definition, but it's kinda overhyped and not really better than the good old-fashioned "WWII-based" stuff.
Some more sites:
http://pub104.ezboard.com/bclosecombat82274
http://www.selfdefenseforums.com/forums/index.php

Wintermute

Since you said you are far from being fragile and don't seem interested in the aikido available to you, maybe judo or some form of jiujitsu(sp?) would be a good choice. Both have alot of holds, throws and alot of places teach punching and low kicks into the class just so they're well rounded.


People fighting in a ring rarely has any relevance on how they do on the street. Not that I'm defending bruce lee. But even UFC and other "no holds barred" type of stuff has rules and crap. Ring fights only have 1 un armed guy coming at you and martial arts competitions also have a shitload of rules. There may be some that truly have no rules, but they are rare. I'm just saying a good record in the ring is about as useful as acting ability when comparing how 2 people can fight.

Jeet Kune Do is probly the best martial art,it was invented by bruce lee.It involves various arts including win chun and other arts

rlpinca I agree, I just ment traditional martial artists against ring fighters stand no chance at all, wich is the case of Bruce Lee. I totaly agree its not the same at all in a street fight, in a street fight, its not even comparable in any sense, Im npot sayng UFC fighters satnd a huge chance against a street brawler, not at all. A street brawler has more chance Id say, cause he knows what the street is about. But of course even in the case, he can be jumped by 4 guys, shot, stabbed, and kicked in the nuts.

JKD is not an martial art, its an philosophy, they teach you footwork and you add whatever you want to it, there is a certan JKD trainer that produced good students, cause they do well in the ring against full conrtacvt figters, if you want to I can give yu his name. JKD is not a style, is that waht you think, you got it all wrong.

e-ray why wouldnt all this be an artial art? Its na martial art. A martial art is not something that is chinese or japanese and has peole dressed in starange suits in it.

quote:

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Originally posted by CHOKOBUTT:
bruce lee doesnt actually know how to throw a proper punch

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Blaspheme. He perfected a knockout punch from 1 fucking inch.

I enjoyed my martial arts training a few years ago> My teacher(or Sensei) had us run 2 mile sprints, a
We worked on "dan bong" fighting, also known as Korean stick-fighting.
Briefly touched on Taek-Wan-Do just to get a feel of form. We also did a bit of Jujitsu and some sort of fast-punching style with a name I easily forget.
He made me a sort of leader of the class and I lead the class on kicking and punching exercises.

The physical and mental stress involved is sometimes quite strenous, but if you really want to do it, the pain won't matter as much.

hmm, thanks.. s'worth a thought.

quote:

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Originally posted by TheSell0ut:
I enjoyed my martial arts training a few years ago> My teacher(or Sensei) had us run 2 mile sprints, a
We worked on "dan bong" fighting, also known as Korean stick-fighting.
Briefly touched on Taek-Wan-Do just to get a feel of form. We also did a bit of Jujitsu and some sort of fast-punching style with a name I easily forget.
He made me a sort of leader of the class and I lead the class on kicking and punching exercises.

The physical and mental stress involved is sometimes quite strenous, but if you really want to do it, the pain won't matter as much.

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thats great man, if you enjoyed it and had fun, good for you, you had what you wanted from it, thats great, everybody has a certan goal.

For the most part it all depends on the individual.

I like Muay Thai and Brazilian Jujitsu for striking and grappling respectively. If your in high school I recommend taking Boxing(if you have it) and Wrestling. Their both good for conditioning, and are good starting off points. I took Olympic Tae Kwon Do when I was younger and I wouldn't recommend anyone taking it for self-defense. You do get a decent workout and learn "cool kicks, but its too limiting and some of the techniques defy common sense - for example chambering your other hand on the hip when striking.

I take back what I posted up above. I realized how Martial Arts work now, and am currently studying Okinawan karate under John Payton( third degree black belt, studying with A 7 degree Kyoshi). Kyoshi taught class on saturday for three hours and It was awesome. He taught us a lot about Kata (actually it was mostly Kata) and how to put different techniques in kata to effect. He also taught us why people practised kata in ancheint times. It was so that people watching you couldn't study your technique if you ever got in a fight with them the next day, so you would disguise everything in KAta. This guy is really awesome... So right now, I think Okinawan Karate is the best.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dion:
I personally like Akido.

Can Krav-Maga be considered a martial art?

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The International Martial Arts Society recognizes it as such.

quote:

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Originally posted by Wintermute:
Alright, you've said that it's hard to pick a martial art as "best" but how about best for a woman?..

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There are arts specifically originated with women in mind, such as Wing Chun ( a form of Kung Fu ) actually originated to teach a woman how to fight a man and win. Of course the system adapts nicely to anyone. Also Aikido, Jiu-Jutsu, Tai Chi Chuan, and Pa-Kua are very good arts for women. Honestly, it's easier for women to learn to use their body appropriately in most arts than it is for men, because almost all martial arts teach you that focusing on upper body strength is the key to losing. Your power comes from your center of mass (pretty much your pelvis area). I highly recommend sitting in on various arts and just watching...see which ones appeal to you. Which ones look like you could comfortably practice them? Which ones can you get along with the instructor? Which ones can you afford/attend regularly? Do they train for "tournament" or do they train to defend themselves in real life situations where Points don't mean a shit and you will die if you try to fight tournament style?...

These are all things to consider. What do you want out of the art?...look for that in the schools.

JakeTakeoko if your style is a branch from Kyoukshin it should be effective, I think it is, but your instructor should more focus on full contact fights, if he does thats fine.

yeh Hume your right, you have to add add boxing for thgat, its good for MMA, but if you ever want to participate in standup only competitions you could add kyokushin, d you believe in the effectivness of kyokushin?
Yeh ChaosWyrm is right, if you want it to help you in a street fight it has to be full contact, or else its useles.

quote:

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Originally posted by AnTi-YoU:
floating palm... dont remember the traditional name for it and dont know much about it. It is probably not the best but i heard that a floating palm guy killed Si Jo Bruce (Lee) by hitting him on the neck with their special chi punches amd that caused his brain thingy.

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yeh but when a boxer came in the ring he easely dodged the attack and hit the master with a simple jab that caused his brain thingy to equal a KO.

there are some truly stupid people out there! i am not some huge bruce lee fan or worshipp him like a god but to call someone a hack is bullshit. Bruce used to fight fullcontact on the hong kong roofs also he fought allot full contact against such greats as dan inosanto, william chueng, chuck norris, that big as basket ball player karrem abdul jammar and others. i have also heard that the high pitched sounds he used were actully used to draw in his opponents rythm so they started to fight on his rythm so their techniques were easily countered.

as so many others have pointed out, there is no best. it depends on what u wanna focuse on. do u want something that emphasises grappling? physical conditioning? something thats well rounded? u need 2 think about ur build, how flexible u r, etc. there is no such thing as best, there r only martial arts that will better suit U.

[This message has been edited by O'CYRUS (edited 12-19-2002).]

quote:

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Originally posted by boosby:
there are some truly stupid people out there! i am not some huge bruce lee fan or worshipp him like a god but to call someone a hack is bullshit. Bruce used to fight fullcontact on the hong kong roofs also he fought allot full contact against such greats as dan inosanto, william chueng, chuck norris, that big as basket ball player karrem abdul jammar and others. i have also heard that the high pitched sounds he used were actully used to draw in his opponents rythm so they started to fight on his rythm so their techniques were easily countered.

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Ok tell me were you have found that proof, every fighter knows about rythm and tries to get another to fight his game, oh well I guess Bruce Lee just had a loud way of doing it, just to tell you its nothing special.

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Originally posted by Mack:
Im npot sayng UFC fighters satnd a huge chance against a street brawler, not at all. A street brawler has more chance Id say, cause he knows what the street is about.

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if u had ne idea what ur talking about then ud know that a lot of the UFC fighters, especially the better 1s, have quite a bit of experience in both martial arts and street fighting. also, a lot of the fighters do conditioning. i dont mean conventional conditioning, but conditioning as in the strengthening and compacting of bone, muscle, and sinew. 4 example, ive seen guyz that r in2 uechi ryu do demonstrations where they drive their fingertips through a plastic bucket covered with lambskin, reach inside, grab a tomatoe, and pull it out unscaved. ive seen instances where guyz have had ppl swing and break baseball bats over their legs. i could go on all day. u think somebody like that with extensive experience in fighting is gonna get their ass beat by ur every day "street brawler"? not likely.

quote:

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Originally posted by boosby:
i have also heard that the high pitched sounds he used were actully used to draw in his opponents rythm so they started to fight on his rythm so their techniques were easily countered.

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actually, 4 the most part, its just a method of breathing. in some martial arts, their breathing during their forms/katas/etc sounds like snoring, while in others such as tae kwon do the individual will generally kiap (scream/yell) while striking.

Yes I knew that, by the way braking bats only comes from Thailand basicaly cause they train their c(S)hins(sp), I never really saw it and Id like to know were you saw it, cause these things I only heard and nobody could prove it.

And yes training in all this they can lose against a simple street brawler even tho it helps, maybe they also train to have iron eyes and iron balls and have a super hard skin so you cant pinch it. Theyyre probably dodging bullets and when stabbed they automaticaly heel. And every hair on their body is shaved like so nobody can pull it.

Your telling me the same thing the other dude just said, but let me tell you a brick wont hit back, I can take a bat to the leg, cause I conditioned it for 20 years, but someone will grab my leg and take me to the ground, wow!! awesome. Karatekas also brake boards you know.

Yes they will likely get beaten big time, will a karateka do well in boxing? Will; a boxer do well in karate? Will a wrestler do well in JuiJitsu? Will JuiJitsu do well in wrestling rules?

You can put all your techniques on the shelve cause a street brawler knows were to attack to disable you fast and how to defend it and what is imprtant, oh you think he cares about a roundkick to your leg? Of course the one with experience. And even against someone who never fought, even tho you have all these techniques, it doesnt change anything in the street, it may add sometings in your favor, thats it.

Like the fact the he has a knive made add something to his favor.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mack:
Yes I knew that, by the way braking bats only comes from Thailand basicaly cause they train their c(S)hins(sp), I never really saw it and Id like to know were you saw it, cause these things I only heard and nobody could prove it.

And yes training in all this they can lose against a simple street brawler even tho it helps, maybe they also train to have iron eyes and iron balls and have a super hard skin so you cant pinch it. Theyyre probably dodging bullets and when stabbed they automaticaly heel. And every hair on their body is shaved like so nobody can pull it.

Your telling me the same thing the other dude just said, but let me tell you a brick wont hit back, I can take a bat to the leg, cause I conditioned it for 20 years, but someone will grab my leg and take me to the ground, wow!! awesome. Karatekas also brake boards you know.

Yes they will likely get beaten big time, will a karateka do well in boxing? Will; a boxer do well in karate? Will a wrestler do well in JuiJitsu? Will JuiJitsu do well in wrestling rules?

You can put all your techniques on the shelve cause a street brawler knows were to attack to disable you fast and how to defend it and what is imprtant, oh you think he cares about a roundkick to your leg? Of course the one with experience. And even against someone who never fought, even tho you have all these techniques, it doesnt change anything in the street, it may add sometings in your favor, thats it.

Like the fact the he has a knive made add something to his favor.

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if u can kick as hard as some1 can swing a baseball bat then hell yea a round kick 2 the leg matters cuz ull break his damn leg. cant remember who in tha UFC can do that, but i know that 1 em can. look, im not saying that theyre almighty fighters 4 every1 2 bow down 2. i dont even like the UFC that much. all im saying is that ur acting like an ass by underestimating those u know nothing about. where do u think those guys started from? u think they just said oh yea im good at martial arts so ill get in2 this? u think that none of them have that little "killer instict" goin off in their head all the while theyre fighting? theyre looking 2 end it as soon as possible, which is why guys come out of there with broken bones. the reason why they do all of those round kicks and what not is because their opponent is so damn good. u act like kicks wont do a damn thing in a real fight. i can guarantee u that if somebody kicks u with a JKD type side kick like bruce lee used 2 do, ur not gonna be feelin 2 good, and most likely ur ribs r gonna be broken. in uechi ryu they use round kicks 2 the joints. theyre all about bone crushing blows, its designed 4 combat which is why by law it has 2 be watered down with aikido. and as far as the demonstrations with the baseball bats, its not like they do this everyday or like that many ppl even do it. they dont even hit with the end of the baseball bat because that probably would break their leg. demonstrations like that weakens the bone. 4 testing 2 become a black belt they break 2x4s over u. u dont break 2x4s, they actually break them over u. back, legs, stomach, etc. and if they dont break it on the first try, they do it again, till it breaks. frank whats his name in the UFC recently broke his leg in training because his trainer was using ceramic guards on his legs. he did this not only 2 protect himself, but also 2 help condition him. how ignorant can u get if u think that most experienced martial artists r gonna get beat by "joe street brawler". nebody who says that training, sparring, and competitions r completely different from the real thing is completely right. there is no doubt about that. its a fact. but u underestimate their abilities as fighters 2 damn much.

[This message has been edited by O'CYRUS (edited 12-19-2002).]

What type of person are you refering to when the say "Street Brawler"? A Bouncer or what not?

In my mind a Street Brawler would be someone with no formal training, but alot of experience. The thing is most of this fighting experience would most likely be against other non-trained opponents.

If I had to bet on either a UFC fighter or Street Fighter, I'd have to consider some things:

1. What Style does a UFC fighter have? UFC is just a fighting format, and has many different types of fighting styles, ranging from Muay Thai, Judo, boxing, Gracie Ju-jitsu, and even Tang Soo Do(one known exclusive fighter). Lets also not forget all the Hybrid fighters(Which probably is the majority).

2. The conditioning of both opponents. Although its nearly impossible to judge total conditioning just by looking at someone. However you can see how "cut" a fighter is, which would give you a general idea of what kinda of shape their in. You would also have to consider differences in weight.

3. Fight Experience. This can be a huge factor. If a UFC fighter whos only documented wins are over Frank Shamrock, Dan Severen, Tito Ortiz, Vanderlei Silva, and Rodrigo Nogueira, thats still a pretty impressive resume, and would hold much more weight with me then a Street Brawler who claims to have defeated hundreds of other street fighters.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that deciding who wins in a UFC vs. "Street Brawler" match is not cut and dry, and totally depends who the hell is in the ring(or where ever).

well at least now ur sounding a little more sensible. i think that 4 the most part, we agree on things now.

Uhh...

Hune - Mack = Different People.