I've read about every link out there and would like to know if there alternative sources besides the matchbook and flare methods of collection. They seem to have a low yield from what I've read. Any input is appreciated.

Well the only other way to obtain phosphorus besides legally purchasing it would be to make it from phosphate rock or bone ash. This is beyond my means probably yours to. Get scraping.

Or you could go about making hypophophorus acid which is easily made if you know what your doing and then go about making the meth.

[This message has been edited by Chemsynth (edited 01-15-2002).]

Hey tryptamine, have you read that post "Philes on Phosphorus" or something like that over at The Hive?

[This message has been edited by madchemist (edited 01-16-2002).]

By whatsupium, no actually I'll shamefully admit that I haven't. I've never had any trouble getting phosphorus, nor do I have much of a use for it. But I'm heading over there right now to read it.

[This message has been edited by tryptamine (edited 01-16-2002).]

Yes by whatsupium. I suggest you read it. It is very informative and sheds much light on those bone ash methods.

Yeah I read it again I remember reading it before now that I perused it. Pretty serious equipment I mean you need an arc welder plus some fabricated gear. But well worth it in the end. I'd personally go with phosphate rock/fertilizer if I ever did it.

Once you have the white it is also kinda tricky to turn it into red as well. I geuss you could just heat it in a furnace until the water turns to steam and heat it under steam until it transformed.

Why worry about RP when you can skip it and use a chem that is made with easily obtainable chems. http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/hypophosphorus.html

Ok, let me take this post a different direction. I asked about RP because it gets around the availability problem of anhydrous ammonia presents in the Birch method. Lets throw that aside. What method allows for producing the largest quantities? Which one produces the best product? Which one is easier to perform? Any other angles I'm missing?

Either method works well for any quantity and yields are similar. They both produce an identical product, however quality is in the hands of the chemist and his cleaning abillity. The birch is attractive 'cause it doesn't need hard to find RP however it is tricky and requires some setting up, etc. etc.
The RPI is easy enough for a monkey but is going to be in the realm of those with connectins from now on 'c ause of the RP deal.

Is there an optimum amount of ingredients for the different reactions? Some I've read specify low amounts, some don't say anything at all. As long as I keep the ratios intact, will all results be the same? Or does the law of diminishing returns kick in at some point? (tryp- I noticed your post after I typed this...but the question still remains, why do some peoples posts recommend low amounts of ingredients?)

[This message has been edited by jonesin44 (edited 01-18-2002).]

Well it depends upon the reaction used the birch should have the same ratios always. I'm not too familiar with RP reduction but from what I've heard the you should use a ratio heavy with the RP and I if your reaction size is small say under an ounce but once you start to get large you can make the ratio go down. How far I don't know but this might explain why everyone uses a different ratio.

[This message has been edited by tryptamine (edited 01-19-2002).]

not too sound ignorant or anything, but i have not been able to find this "hive" i hear so much about. could anyone give me a link or something?


~Me

Keep searching, we aren't tour guides.

The Hive is easy as fuck to find unless you dont know ANYTHING about the interenet..

ok here are some ratios for your basic Hi reduction of ephedrine
for under an ounce of E
1 part E
.8 parts Rp
1.2 parts I2

for over an unce of ephed.
1 part E
.3 to .5 parts Rp
1 part I2

The bee's dont like there address being handed out and if you cant find it... well Im pretty sure they dont want you there heheh cause even if you have massive chem knowledge if u cant UTFSE u dont belong hehe.

Am i right to expect about .1g of RP per 100 matchbooks? This seems to be the figure that I have seen a few times.

no youll probaly get a little under a gram per box of matchbooks. depending on the brand of course.

[This message has been edited by acidmelt (edited 01-21-2002).]

How many match books are in a box? Like a gross? 144 that is I believe...

Last question on this topic...what brands are recommended? Any place in particular where you guys purchase these? Answers from all regions would be great, ( I'm in the Midwest.)

quote:

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Originally posted by Frey Grimrod:
The bee's dont like there address being handed out and if you cant find it... well Im pretty sure they dont want you there heheh cause even if you have massive chem knowledge if u cant UTFSE u dont belong hehe.

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Yes this is very true. And after Dateline alot of people came with No Knowledge of chemistry and werent able to grasp the concept of TFSE. Oh well not my problem when they get flamed.

quote:

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Why worry about RP when you can skip it and use a chem that is made with easily obtainable chems. http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/hypophosphorus.html

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How is that easier, you still have to obtain WP.

I would think that the amount of HI theoretically needed would be a double molar excess of HI to ephedrine. This is based upon the equations given in that hypophosphorus link. Where:
The OH gets torn off and forms OH-, the positively charged carbon picks up the I- ion to become iodometh, then the H+ left reacts with the OH-.
(1)ephedrine + (1)HI----->(1)iodometh + (!)H2O
Then the HI reacts with the iodometh.
(1)Iodometh + (1)HI----->(1)meth + (1)I2
So in short:
(1)ephedrine + (2)HI----->(1)meth + (1)H2O + (1)I2

To figure out how much RP and I2 you need to supply that amount of HI:
(1)P4 + (6)I2----->(4)PI3
(1)PI3 + (3)H2O----->(3)HI + (1)H3PO3

quote:

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Originally posted by madchemist:
How is that easier, you still have to obtain WP.

I would think that the amount of HI theoretically needed would be a double molar excess of HI to ephedrine. This is based upon the equations given in that hypophosphorus link. Where:
The OH gets torn off and forms OH-, the positively charged carbon picks up the I- ion to become iodometh, then the H+ left reacts with the OH-.
(1)ephedrine + (1)HI----->(1)iodometh + (!)H2O
Then the HI reacts with the iodometh.
(1)Iodometh + (1)HI----->(1)meth + (1)I2
So in short:
(1)ephedrine + (2)HI----->(1)meth + (1)H2O + (1)I2

To figure out how much RP and I2 you need to supply that amount of HI:
(1)P4 + (6)I2----->(4)PI3
(1)PI3 + (3)H2O----->(3)HI + (1)H3PO3

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Sorry let me rephrase that. Getting the chems to make hypophosphorus acid is easy if you know where to look. No questions asked. I never said it was an easy synth (and if i did i didnt mean to) but the chems are less watched. Hypophosphorus is watched but the chems to make it arent. And if anyone trys this wear a gas mask or something.

I'd much rather make H2S and reduce iodine into HI than fuck with white phosphorus.