So I now see why some of you are interested in energetic materials....

I was kinda bored today so since I have all the materials(enough to make a kilo or so) to make AP why not see how easy this is.

I poured ~20 mL of acetone into a 150mL ehrlenmeyer. Then ~20ml of 35% H2O2 then I dumped in 2 grams of Citric acid.

The citric didn't produce much of anything noticable so I dumped in about 3mL concentrated HCl. That set it off visibly and the flask got barely perceptibly warm.

(Yeah I have directions but I didn't follow them, just winged it)

I let it sit for about 10-15 minutes and went back to the lab. Whoa! a flask full of white sludge. Thick in fact. I washed and filtered the AP several times in coffee filters with tap water. Dried in the air for a couple of hours. Final yeild: 10.28g of nice crystalline grains.

Easier than making cookies!!!

I don't have any fusing devices so I wondered what the fuck I could do with it now if I couldn't enclose it. Heat sets it off....

I placed gradually larger peices on the concrete floor and touched them with my MAPP torch. The biggest fireball I got was about 3 feet across from a few grams.

I love this shit, Soon I'll have to set some off every morning before I start my day.

I'll be trying HMTD tommorow maybee, got everything for that too.

Then I'll bee making some nitric.

So questions for those that know:
1.Will a red hot nichrome wire set off enclosed AP?
2.Any experience with HMTD?

1) yes
2) no

I just made AP yesterday and it was pretty fun. I have to go now so I'll talk about it later

I have had made HMTD about 4 times, but I usually have bad yields. But I do have quite a few methods to still try out.

HMTD is more powerful, and more stable than AP, but HMTD can become very dangerous and unstable if exposed to certain metals.

Also, one of my first tests with HMTD was hitting a pile of it (the size of a matchead) with a hammer. BAM!
both of my ears were ringing for about an hour.

[This message has been edited by Rat_Bastard (edited 11-15-2002).]

Bitchin'

I figured you had made it rat, I read a post at the forum where you said you did.

I'm thinking the citric acid could be the cause of low yields. From the sounds of it, it can be one bastard of a reaction and quite slow.

Maybee I'll start tonite so I can have some to play with tommorow.

Thanks for the heads up about sensitivity to metals.

Gotta borrow a digital cam soon.

Can one make fuses using KMnO4? I've got buckets of the stuff abd only a little KNO3.

it is almost impossible, unless you mix it with some coffee creamer and fill up a straw, because i think it reacts when exposed to water.

KMno4 can be used to make fuse:
http://www.roguesci.org/cgi-bin/ewforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000378

quote:

---

Microtek
Registered: Jan 2001
posted July 23, 2001 07:02 AM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some time ago I claimed that I was working on a new type of fuse that i would describe fully when it was sufficiently developed.
Well, now I am satisfied that I have a very reliable recipe, so here it is:
Mix 5 grams of powdered KMnO4, 1 gram of sulphur and 1 gram of silicon gel ( the substance that is used to glue the glass-panes in aquariums together ).
I suggest mixing the sulphur and KMnO4 first to insure a sufficiently uniform mix.
Knead this mixture well, and then roll it out with a board so that You end up with a cord of about 4 mm thickness.
Let it cure overnight and then cut it up into suitable lengths.
The final step is to wrap it in electricians tape ( preferably lengthwise; that is perpendicularly to the normal wrap-up vector ), two wrappings are sufficent with the type of tape that I use.
Now for the specs:

Burn rate: ca 30 sec per 3 cm
Flexibility: A 3 cm piece will bend more than 180 degrees with no damage to the core, though some types of tape may not.
Water Resistance: Core does not soak at all and will survive any amount of rain or submersion. With the described wrappings, fuse will burn submerged.

A variation can be made by using 8.5 g KMnO4 and 2 g silicon gel. This will give a less mechanically stable product, but will burn at a rate of ca 40 sec per 3 cm and will produce less smoke. Water resistance is similar.

---------------

---

I'll try and test this once my KMno4 comes...

it burns way to slow.

It does burn very slow, but sometimes that can be good!

Either way, it's still fuse, so it answers his question.

yeah, especially if you do not want to be seen. I have no idea where to get that stuff, and i am too lazy to make my own fuses, so what i do is i cut a peice of a punk about 1 1/2 inches long and i tape it to the visco. By the time it goes off, i am looking out of my window watching it blow up. incents do not work becuase they are not windproof.

����Your AP crystals were visibly crystalline? From what I understand the larger your crystals the more prone they are to taking shear force and the more sensitive and thus dangerous they will be. Whenever I made acetone peroxide I wind up with what looks like sparkly flour. I suppose my crystals are small because I monitor and control my reaction temperature constantly.
����I've never had a whole lot of luck with HMTD, though I have gotten a few small yeilds. Under my unscientific eye the stuff was no better or worse than acetone peroxide, but merely a certifiable bitch to make. I don't have a good source of citric acid, so I need to get my hands on the hydrochloric acid HMTD ratios one of these years.
����Acetone peroxide can be loads of fun, though. Lots of noise and power with minimal effort. Be careful with the stuff.

~Zero

So now when are you going to cross over to my side of the fence (mind altering chemistry)? Just kidding..

Yeah my AP looked like sparkly flour. AP has a higher velocity yet HMTD is more powerful? What implications does that have? I understand for shaped charges you need high velocity but power is secondary.

I'm mainly interested in linear shaped charges(and just good old fashioned blowin' shit up) so I need something with more velocity than either of these.

I can't wait to get some nitric distilled up, Then I'm making HMX.

Thanks for the fuse ideas fellas.

Later,
tryptamine

WHOA!!! HMX! You gotta tell us about that!!! Plus, it will be great to hear of some secondaries! Keep us posted on the shape charges too, and do you think its a good idea to make HMX right away? Maybe something simpler?

Well if you can get nitromethane (some of you druggies have it for MDMA I think) and ammonium nitrate good ole' ANNM is around 7000m/s, not bad for a shape charge. I do NOT suggest APAN. AP+acid=not good, and thats what happens with the AN losing a H+ and making the AP acidic and sensitive. If you make HMTD, don't mix with NC or metals. There is a thread at the forum about HMTD made with HCL Zero, too tired to find it now. As well as the AP, citirc acid is not a really good acid. Use the HCl. Its only a catalyst and you can wash it off later (neutralize AP too!). Yes NiChrome will set it off, as well as a strand of steel wool. If you want, fill a straw with BP or a good KMnO4 based comp. (EP, you beat me to it ; ). Wait until you set off some AP under confinement. AND DON'T GET COMFORTABLE WITH AP!

Well I'll definitely keep everyone posted with all my experiments. And I definitely plan on working my way up on several low power explosives before I make any HMX nitro picric acid or any other stuff I really want to make. ANNM is a good idea I didn't think of that before but I'll give it a try, just gotta order some nitromethane at 120 dollars a gallon (ie that one will wait a month or so). I think I'll make a gram or so of nitrogen tri iodide tommorow as well as the HMTD just to say I did. Nitrogen tri chloride is something I want to give a whirl too, gotta get some lithium hypochlorite from the parents pool chemicals for that one (wheras I have I2 right now).

So tired..... must sleep.....

Well I have about 40g of AP drying in the basement. And 13g hexamine/35%H2O2/Citric acid HMTD precipitating in the fridge right now. It is working and there is lots of precipitate.

I tried Anthony's HCl synth previously but neglected to add the acid in small amounts with cooling, I dumped it all together and threw it in the freezer. I went to check on it 30 minutes later and I had a (very hot)flask full of yellow liquid, and liquid on the contents of my freezer, and the HCl fumes were everywhere.

I also made a few grams of nitrogen triiodide, and it sucks my left nut. After it dried I took it outside very carefully with gloves/goggles etc. And I set it on a cinder block. Then I whacked it with a stick --> nothing. So I got out the MAPP torch and torched it. Bunch of wussy cracking and iodine fumes. Like caps but alot more trouble. Maybe it was still too wet.
I don't care much for it at all.

Don't you think that 40 grams of AP is a little too much because of it's high sensitivity?

damn, imagine a 40 grams AP salute! And i though a flash powder quarter stick was a lot.

����As long as you're not anywhere near it when it goes off...
����40 grams is probably a bit much to keep in one place, but I've seen people do dumber and live to tell the tale. As long as there are no unexpected external stimuli it should be safe enough. 40 grams isn't anywhere near enough to make the AP detonate under its own weight.

~Zero

I heard The Real made this stuff by the pound, is this true?

CTR

by the fucking pound? whoa, now that's just crazy... but what I've heard about him, I'm sure he could handle it... I wasn't around in his time

And I heard he's six feet tall and slays men by the hundreds! He shoots lightening from his eyes and fireballs from his arse!

5 BBS Points for the person that tells me what movie that is from.

����And 50 BBS points to anyone who was actually around when the Real was here and doesn't base what they know about him purely on heresay.

~Zero

im 5'11'' and a half. almost six feet tall.

I'm about 5'5" and I'm 13... (I didn't want to say I was 13 because I though I would lose my respect if I had any)... oh well... it doesn't matter what people think of me because of my age...

im 16, but i do not care that you are 13.

Its off of bravehart, EP.

That sounds like some monty python movie.

draggo wins, but I'm sure Zero got it also...

Well now that this thread is hijacked.....

My yield of HMTD was 8.5 grams(when crumbly and dry) from 13g of hexamine. Much finer grains, almost not sparkly. Took a long fucking time to react! It better be worth it.

I'll post the tests in another thread.

Hmmm should I do four tens, 2 twentys or a forty? I'm making a big ass polumna out of the HMTD.

The real? I know a bit about him, I showed up just about the time he "left". And I was here to welcome him back when he made his appearance.

I'll make AP in hundred gram batches no prob. Just keep it wet and then spead out to dry. Keep it unconfined spread out in storage(not for more than a day or two. If it goes off like that It'll just make a big fireball.

Later!

seriously... I don't think AP is very safe to keep when you make that much man. Make 20 grams MAXIMUM and keep it at that. I don't know if anyone else is like this but I'm scared and like to be as safe as possible so I wouldn't try making too much AP.

[This message has been edited by DeusExMachina (edited 11-16-2002).]

[This message has been edited by DeusExMachina (edited 11-16-2002).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by EP:
And I heard he's six feet tall and slays men by the hundreds! He shoots lightening from his eyes and fireballs from his arse!

5 BBS Points for the person that tells me what movie that is from.

---

Braveheart

quote:

---

Originally posted by draggo:
Its off of bravehart, EP.

---

Damn you!

Heh I am noticing that you are becoming more and more involved in this forum tryp. Why didn't you come sooner?

Anyways, on your question on shaped charges I am making a section at Pyro Supreme on them. Once you understand the basic concept shaped charges are pretty easy to make.

I agree, AP is fun stuff. I think it's more fun to have all my fingers, so I follow the directions; keeping the reaction under 10 degrees. Something about higher temperatures resulting in dicycloacetone peroxide instead of the tricyclo type, with the tricyclo being more stable and powerful.

HMTD isn't as much fun for me because I always get low yields. The only secondarys I've bother with so far is ANFO, which is a pain to detonate. I'm not sure if APAN qualifies as a secondary or what, but I'm doing some experimenting with that, too, which I might post about in the future.

Anyway, if you're into mind altering chemistry, you might want to keep them separate... (david must go watch conan obrien now)

Tryp, I've heard that AP is soluble in Acetone, so just fill a mason jar with some Acetone, put your wet AP into it until it stops disolving and then when you want to use it just let it dry out. I've heard of long storage times using this method from the E&W forum members.

I think it's nitrocellulose that's soluble in acetone and related to AP in that it can be used to make AP putty. I doubt that the actual AP is soluble in acetone.

Both smokeless powder and acetone peroxide are soluble in acetone.

I filtered out my AP and I barely have anything. I don't have fucking crystals... I have a fucking gel... what the hell is this stuff? has this ever happened to anyone else? will it work? right now I am pissed because I was looking forward to something that would work and this looks like it won't work.

quote:

---

Originally posted by DeusExMachina:
I filtered out my AP and I barely have anything. I don't have fucking crystals... I have a fucking gel... what the hell is this stuff? has this ever happened to anyone else? will it work? right now I am pissed because I was looking forward to something that would work and this looks like it won't work.

---

You probly didn't follow directions and measured or did something wrong...I just made 5 batchs or AP at the same time today...I have them all drying now and I am estimating the total yeild will be 100-150 grams...

����What materials and proportions did you use? If you use nail polish remover for your acetone you could probably make the random impurities in it congeal like that. Otherwise, your reaction temerapture may be far too low (solution beginning to freeze) or your crystals are just so small they're acting like a liquid in partial suspension...

~Zero

I used normal acetone from canadian tire, 3%pure hydrogen peroxide, and draino for the acid. When I was making it, it was about like at 10*C (I know it should have been much lower) and I put it in the fridge and it was really cold in there but it didn't freeze for three days. When I had the AP contained in a bottle, it looked like so much more but I got much less than I though I would. So do you guys think my AP will detonate or it's crap?

EDIT: I used 50ml acetone, 300ml H2O2 and a few drops of acid.

[This message has been edited by DeusExMachina (edited 11-17-2002).]

There is your problem...You used draino...I have heard that stuff produces weird results...Plus you only used a few drops of catlyst...no wonder it took 3 days to get sludge....well try it and see if it does anything...

no way boris... it took less than 10 minutes to get the "sludge" but I left it in the fridge for 3 days anyways.

[This message has been edited by DeusExMachina (edited 11-17-2002).]

Probably because drano is Sodium hydroxide a strong base. Even liquid drano is a solution of NaOH in water. You need Sulphuric acid drain opener (heavy syrupy brown liquid) I've seen red stuff too. Or just use muriatic acid. This will get you the AP you want.

Also to test AP or HMTD just put about a pencil eraser sized amount on the ground and light it with a long lighter/torch or splint.

This will let you know how active it is.

Actually, the H2SO4 I have is from a generic drain opener and it's just a bit off white. Heavy for it's size, though because pure H2SO4 has a density 1.854 times that of water in equal volunes. I have also seen HCl drain opener, but I'll stick to the H2SO4. Draino, like tryptamine said, is sodium hydroxide (NaOH). That's lye, and it looks like it doesn't work for AP. And lastly, when you're letting your AP precipitate, make sure your family doesn't try to drink it... My dad didn't notice it wasn't just a glass of water until he smelled it. Close one, I'll have to warn him next time.

Your dad allmost drank it?!?!

Jesus, where do you keep your reaction vessel? in the kitchen?

I went to Canadian Tire to buy acetone and an acid and could only find draino. In which section would one find muriatic acid in a store like canadian tire or home depot?


PS- MY ACETONE PEROXIDE GEL EVAPORATED... OR THE MONSTER UNDER MY BED TOOK IT!!! WHERE DID IT GO?

����Check the paint section. You will find both the acetone and cans of HCl brick cleaner there. That's where it is in my Home Depot, anyway.
����Acetone peroxide does evaporate on its own, eventually, but since what you had wasn't AP I can't say for certain how fast it would evaporate. Acetone is volatile and will convert itself to vapor in short order, but you should have residue at least of your other ingredients...

~Zero

For acotone just go to a nail/hair salon they sell 100% pure bottles of it, they also sell bottles of 30% h2o2.

CTR

"Jesus, where do you keep your reaction vessel? in the kitchen?"

The fridge...

����I've narrowly avoided situations like that as well. You'd think that people would be less inclined to stick their noses in a beaker in the fridge that's intentionally shoved all the way in the back, smells like acetone, is covered with plastic wrap secured with a red rubber band, and has white powdery stuff floating around in it...

~Zero

I can beat the lot of u, my wee bro almost took a drink of red diesel (dont know if you have that in america) it was in a juice bottle sitting on my desk (i had just used some, good fun for burning!) and he walked up to it took of the lid and it was touching his lip before he smelt it!!, funnily enough he doesnt knick my juice any more!

[This message has been edited by It burns (edited 11-22-2002).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by DavidThePyro:
"Jesus, where do you keep your reaction vessel? in the kitchen?"

The fridge...

---

You should look into getting a Fridge in your lab...Trust me it comes in hand all the time....

How about a post it note by the great 3M company clearly stating the contents?

����Because then I'd be asked "what the fuck is 'acetone peroxide'?" about fifty times. It's not my fault other people are unobservant. Serves them right.

~Zero

That's the spirit! As for a fridge in my lab, I don't have $100 that I want to spend on even a mini-fridge rather than chems.

Mmm...

NaOH is alkaline, not acidic. That's why it won't work.

I went to a hair store and they had 40% hydrogen peroxide and they wouldn't let me buy it! they said I had to be a hairstylist. Then, I went to wal mart and they didn't have hydrogen peroxide. I was planning to make my AP right this time but I guess I'll just have to get my H202 from another store. Has this ever happened to anyone else or the wal mart that I went to just ran out of it?

im thinking of making an AP salute and was wondering if the G's from a rocket taking off would set of the AP?, i just dont want the rocket to blow up before it gets a decent distance away from me!!

i woulnt be worryied about the Gs, i would be more worried about the heat from the exuast. A 14 inch long rockets exuast would still probably ignite the AP, even if it is in the nose.

No it'll be alright, there will be no heat getting from the rockets exhaust to the nose. And the g's won't set it off either.

if the motor, or powder core gets any farther than 3/4 the way up the rocket, it will go off. I dont think that it would go off if you used a store bought one though.

I doubt that sheer G forces from a rocket will set off AP. A also doubt that the exhaust gas and/or even the ejection charge would, unless the AP was right on the charge.

if you are using a payload of 50 grams, you you are using a largen engine(around 6 or 7 Gs) that is around the place where it detonates under its own weight(but only with the high temps of the rocket engine. If leaving HMTD out in the sun cuases to to detonate, and it is more stable then AP, the rocket temps will definatly set it off.

����HMTD is specifically sensitive to UV light, though. I'd doubt the acceleration would set off a small amount of AP, but I'm quite certian the heat from the rocket would. I can't say how far along the rocket would have to be burning, but I'm quite sure it would happen eventually.

~Zero

I think if you got one of those egg launching rockets from walmart and filled it with ap it would be fine and detonate only when the ejection charge hits it, but dont trust me too much ive been known to be wrong.

CTR

����Indeed. In any event, stand clear of the thing when you launch it just in case it does explode. I suppose testing it would be the best way to find out...

~Zero

the plan is 40g AP in a cling film tube. i use the cling film tubes because they are nice and thick. my last rocket had a 100g payload of BP, it never left the ground (it got stuck!) i never knew i could run so fast!! but im getting bored with BP and have decided to move up. i just wanted to check that though, i like my hands!!

I had an idea today...everyone is so taken with APAN (acetone peroxide/amonium nitrate), why not try it with amonium perchlorate? While you're at it, I'd try AP/KClO3 also...

Amonium perchlorate is a lot more expensive than AN, but who knows, it might be pretty good. I'll have to ask about this once E&W is back up.

So that is what APAN stands for
*Smacks head*
Well the shaped charges at Pyro Supreme section is functional but no where near complete. If you signed up for the mailing list you have been notified several weeks ago. Later

Im glad to know what APAN is now as well!

today i was gonig around all the art stores, camera shops.etc to find acetone up town with no result. can anyone give more suggestions regarding acetone sources? can you use nail polish removers?
Thanks

Go to the hardware store in the paint department. It's paint remover. Nail polish remover is not good choice because it is not pure acetone. There might be impuraties in it that may not be good.

tried that already, they told me to look in art stores, they told me to look in camera stores, they told me to look in hardware stores. i have been through almost all the shops in all of aberdeen!! im going to try the chemist tommorow

I have bad news and good news. I just got a new enelmeyer (sp?) flask today but when I made my AP, it was fine until I tried filtering it out. This ALWAYS happens when I try to make AP. Can anyone give me tips on filtering out AP? Something goes wrong all the time.

quote:

---

Originally posted by It burns:
tried that already, they told me to look in art stores, they told me to look in camera stores, they told me to look in hardware stores. i have been through almost all the shops in all of aberdeen!! im going to try the chemist tommorow

---

um...If you cant find it at a paint store or a hardware store then your either not looking or your not looking hard enough...

I forgot to reply to that post. How the hell can acetone not be in a hardware store? It's paint thinner. It should be in the paint section.

Deus, tell us what exactly went wrong and maybe we can help. Keep in mind that you cannot just do the reaction on one day and try to filter it out the same day. You need to give it time (I wait at least 2 days) for the AP molecules to stick to each other and get to be big enough to stick on the filter. That was my mistake when I first made AP.

can't I just filter it out when the white sludge appears? The next time I make it, I'll take 3 or 6% H202 and boil it down until I have 10% of what I originally had (I'm going to use 500ml so I have 50ml left over). Next time, I will wait 3 days and try to get a new acid.

I get acotone from nail saloons, HCl from jewlry stores, and h2o2 from the grocery store. Well anyways i finally got around to making some AP, all be it a very small amount, and i got some nitric acid although im not sure what to do with it.

CTR

You shouldn't use nail polish remover...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Agent Boris_KGB:
You shouldn't use nail polish remover...

---

Dont worry its not nail polish remove its pure acotone.

CTR

Just got done with a new batch of AP, this time I boiled my 3% H2O2 down from 250ml to 50ml. I noticed that it wasn't quite as clear as it was before, more of a yellowish hue. It's sitting in the fridge as I type this, and it's incredibly white relative to my first experiments using regular 3%. I'll have to do some more experiments this weekend to see if it makes a differance in the yields. Also of interest is the fact that the solution sizzled when the H2S04 was dripped in. Anyway, I think I'll filter it tomorrow because it looks ready tonight. It looks like boiling the H2O2 down is advantageous, even if only because of the shorter time required for it to precipitate. I'll keep you posted.
Oh, and I made sure no one is going to try to drink it this time.

yeah iv just started mucking around with the production of AP. with a film cannister i added about a cap full of 6% h202 a cap full of acetone and doubled the mixture with acid (all in a ice bath in my freezer, and i know those ratios are wrong). with in about 3 hours i had some AP. i filtered it through a coffie filter and didnt even really allow it to dry. i started buring small batchs and to my happyniess it exploded...

i finally got acetone, the chemist had it!. the big 'hardware' shop in my city (b&q) doesnt have a license to hold acetone, only methanol.etc. im going to get H2O2 tommorow, finnally i have everything i need!

Ont he subject of sulphuric acid are the white fumes given off vapourised sulphuric acid? im wondering about distilling it as well as concentrating it to reduce the amount of impuritys.

What kind of sulfuric acid are you using? Drain opener? Battery acid? If you're using anything except for battery acid, you probably won't need to do anything to it. If you are using battery acid, you can use it; just use about 2.3 times as much of it. If you're really, really intent to purify and concentrate it you can, I won't bother telling you anything about it because it's pretty useless in my opinion.

Edit: I'm done drying my batch of AP and it's
14.7 grams from ~260mL of H2O2 boiled to 50mL. I'll do a head-to-head test of boiled vs. non boiled H2O2 later this weekend if I can.

[This message has been edited by DavidThePyro (edited 11-29-2002).]

I love AP. Iv made few firecrackers with it now and was quite impressed at its ability to obliterate the caseing. Then i decided to make one out of al-foil so when it exploded it would obliterate the caseing even more, which it did. Firecrackers are all well and good then i dicovered i had an apple in the fruit bowl.......Holy crap its funny blowing up fruit. I added like about 5c coin size amount to my little cracker and a deem "boom" and the apple was sent into several sections all over the place. I was quite suprised to see that some of the dirt had also been blow away and had apple skin emmbedded in it. I will be makeing a lot of AP over the next few weeks.

earlier in nov. me and a friend blew up an apple with a 3 grams flash powder M-80, and there were only a few chunks that we found. all the rest was apple juice(forreal, there was a big puddle of apple juice where it blew up).

AP might be fun, but is still dangerous each time you make it. Don't get lax. Also, the sulfuric (H2SO4) or HCl needn't be concentrated. In fact, 50% (about what battery acid has) is just fine, if not better.

I'll just note that I haven't gotten straight battery acid (35-50% H2SO4) to work very well.

I have had some Acetone, h2o2 with 5ml of battery acid in the fridge overnight, it has done nothing! i think i know where i have gone wrong though, at what point is the liquid in the battery H2SO4 as opposed to PbSO4? ie. when its charged or discharged?

Bought 50 percent hydrogen peroxide when i tryed making the battery bomb, which didn't work, i got it from the chemist i told the guy i needed a higher concentration and he put it on order. I guess i look inocent so he didnt ask questions

yey 100th post

[This message has been edited by OniOuji (edited 11-30-2002).]

����The sulfuric acid should exist in the battery when it is charged. You can buy acid refils from most automotive stores for batteries that can be maintained. The stuff's cheap - Stock up.
����Acid left in a battery, even a charged one, will eventually degrade. If the battery is left uncharged for a week or so the plates will sulfate and it will become completely useless, acid and all.

~Zero

Your chemist put in an order of 50% H2O2?!!
I might try that.

yeah he's a dude

Also whats the safest way to store AP

����Submerged in acetone, if you must store it for more than a week or so.

~Zero

if you want good H202, just take 3% hydrogen peroxide and boill it down. Thats what I am doing next time I make AP. I am also not going to use anything other than H202 and acetone because I'm broke right now and I don't want to use draino. The AP will still form but itll take longer

You can't leave out the acidic catylist. It's what makes the reaction happen. If you leave it out, the additives in the H2O2 will stop anything from happening. Don't waste your time. Anyway, I didn't get enough time to do my boiled vs. non boiled AP yesterday, I'll see if I have time later today.

a catlyst just speeds up the reaction process. If you just mix acetone and H202, it will form AP but it will take longer

Im no expert chemist, but seeing as h2o2 gradually degrades slowly in 'normal' conditions, wont boiling it speed this up, wasting h2o2.

Thanks about the battery thing, i thought it was while it was discharged, and now i feel like a twat!!, i have had a look around town and phoned around the car repair.etc places in my city and all they sell for batteries is de-ionised water. also not a single chemist in my city is licensed to sell HCl!, are there any other acids that are known to work, maybe vinegar?