ok heres what i want to do im making a batch of AP and i wanna make m-80's out of it but im not sure if this would be safe see im out of fuse so i was thinking of stringed sparklers but im not sure if the AP will react with the metal in the sparklers to form some sort of unstable metal salts or peroxides

also how loud on estimate do you think a 1/4 to 1/2 filled m-80 would be equvilant to ?

this is the size of the tubes i will be using



[This message has been edited by warweed12 (edited 10-05-2002).]

come on any body out there .....


there has to be some one who knows !!

rat you should know your smart !


BTW were has rat been ? i have not seen him in a long time he used to post so much now i hardly see him post anymore

Yes Im still here....

I must say, those things are fucking powderful, so get a long fuse.

Primaries perform best when pressed, but that is rather dangerous, but it can be done.

Dont leave the compleated devices lying around for long, set them off ASAP. A long time ago I made some that formed large AP crystals (BAD!) because I left them lying around too long. Fortunatley I carefully set them off without inccident.

(you can tell this is an old pic because I had no "R" mark.)

oh yeah, DO NOT DROP IT!

P.S: yeah, I have skool and a job so It's hard to find free time now .

BUT! later this month I have 3 long weekends and I get fireworks on haloween, so that means I will have a shit load of new pics and media.

[This message has been edited by Rat_Bastard (edited 10-05-2002).]

i take it they are quite shock sensitive


but yeah i plan on like you said a while bakc leaveing my AP in an achol soultion and then letting the amount i need to air dry then i will fill and go out and use right away


also how much would you say it cost for the supplies for your AP ?

secondly what do you think of the idea of me selling AP in my school for $5 for 2'gs ? i dunno just an idea that came across my mind because of how we used to have a little fieworks ring in our school were we would sell our fireworks from the states to others we know in our school


and not to be a pain in the ass but what are some saftey risks with ap ? like me if i were to sell my 2 g baggies it would be in crystal form so is there i high possiblity of it go off with it sitting in some kids locker also what would happen is some idiot ... my friend decided to walk home with this baggie in his pocket would 2 g's be strong enough to blow a hole out of his leg or would it just burn or what exactly

Selling a primary explosive in school is not reccomended, if I were to sell things, I would just sell LE's.

I can tell you that AP is not as sensitive as Armstrongs mixture (toy cap powder, or the stuff that took Kurt Saxon's hand off) but it is still pretty sensitive. You can see for yourself by placing a small (i mean matchead size) amount of ap on a concrete floor and scraping a hammer across it to get an idea on how sensitive it is. It should crackle and snap. And if you strike it it should go BANG!

You can work with it with your hands without it going off (making AP putty for example.) Actually, that gives me an Idea!

Why don't you make M-80's with AP putty! MUCH safer and has a longer shelf life. The ratio is usually 1:1 Ap:binder. Just mold the stuff into a tube and let it harden compleatley. I don't think you even need endplugs, they would be useless and would slow the drying process.

But don't be too rough with even AP putty, the surface still has crystals on it so it might go off if you drop it, so thats why I usally coat the surface with something.

[This message has been edited by Rat_Bastard (edited 10-05-2002).]

Rat said most of it, even though instead of using a sparkler, I would just use a regular Visco, a long piece, like 8 inch, and make sure when you light it, not to drop it and run like you can do with other M-80s. I am not 100 percent sure that the AP will react with metal, so if you do not feel like doing the experimenting or research, just use Visco.

Usually it's HMTD that goes bad with metals, but I still wouldn't trust AP with a sparkler jabbed into it. Who knows how the various other compounds in the sparkler will react.

~Zero

I wasnt that sure about AP, becuase i am not that good with primary explosives, even though I made some HMTD before, and I knew it reacted badly with metals.

Even though the precursors for HMTD are more expensive, I preffer HMTD because it is a little safer & more powerful, And presses nicley; much better suited for (nonmetal) blasting caps.

Selling a primary high explosive is an extremely bad idea! Dont do it, I assure you at least one person will blow his/her hands off. If you need some cash not too many people buy fireworks except around July 4. Then you could make a few hundred dollars. If you sell AP the feds will be on your ass in no time.

ok i just got back form the hardware store and i got some hydrochloric acid and some acetone but i dunno now lol im a little freaked from what i have heard this is strong stuff and im unsure if i should make it nowi don't have my lab equipment right now so i would end up using a misc glass jar and i don't have a good thermometer so im a little well plainly scared ! what are soem ways to ensure that the mix is of a right temp without useing a thermometer can i just mix the h2o2 with the acetone and sit it in an ice bath for a half hour and mix it and then add a drop of acid and mix it and let it sit for 15 min and come back and keep on doing that till i mixed it all in or what ?

Warweed,

Nothing wrong with being "a little freaked" at the prospect of making it. Nervousness breeds caution (it should anyway). But I would suggest that you NOT make it until you are able to do it properly. Making explosives isn't really the time to be employing guesswork (SWAGs or DSWAGs)....

[This message has been edited by d1ng0 (edited 10-06-2002).]

I know what you mean warweed I was scared as hell the first time I made nitroglycerin....well I am always scared whenever I make any explosive....just be sure to use caution and safety...I suggest you just wait till you get a thermometer and you other equipment...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rat_Bastard:
I don't think you even need endplugs, they would be useless and would slow the drying process.

---

What I do is let Sp soak in acetone on a closed jar for about 3 days, or until most the acetone has turned into a thick slurry. I then fill a pop cap half full with it. Then fill almost the rest of the way with ap. Then stir it all together (not to vogorously) I then let it dry for a day or 2. The next time you pick it up for some odd reason the pop cap is only half full with binded ap. Hmmmm thats odd. Well guess what that just means the density is higher. You should have inserted a fuse before it dried. Or at least made a fuse hole. A half a pop cap full will make a boom, so much more extremely powerful & loud than an m-80, you wont believe it. Dont forget to cover it, only because you dont want sparks touching is causing early ignition. It needs no confinement whatsoever. I will take pics for my site as soon as my 40% h2o2 comes in. (I am going to dilute it)

Completely off topic:

6C or whoever else knows: Who is "Darkfire" listing on the pyro supreme staff? (their image doesn't work by the way)

Just curious because I've used that name in various places since 1998... >.>.

Do NOT sell AP in any amount at school!

Those M80s will be LOUD! In a dream 1/2 a bottle cap pressed AP was initiated with 3in. of Visco and it made a dent in 1mm steel and was very loud, I swear I felt it in my chest. It resounded around the woods by me. I don't know how fast your sparklers burn, but thats plenty of time. Why don't you make some straw fuse anyway? Its very cheap, reliable, and supposedly waterproof. Just load a straw with BP or KNO3/sugar. It burns slow.

im not really a pro at this stuff warweed12 but being a little scared when you are making it and when you are detonating is good because youll make the extra effort to do it right, safe and stay out of trouble. But if you are too scared, I think you might make it wrong or hurt yourself

i know what i said about hurting yourself because you are being too careful sounds stupid but if you are scared, youll be nervous and thats no good and it could lead to you making a mistake

Fuck I went to Ace Hardware (went way the hell outta my way to get there too) and they wouldn't sell me muriatic acid and acetone!

EP, darkfire is Genital Warfare.

P.S. Someone fucked with the code for the index at Pyro Supreme and the left frame is all screwy! Please don't touch that code.

what did they do to they index ?

I dont know if anyone did anything or not to the leftframe.htm but doesn't it look a little screwy to you guys?

were do you get AP putty at, sound like some good stuff.

You make it....

Well i think my image is working now its got a wierd white line on the right if someone can fix this be my guest.

CTR

I bet you he dosnt even know what AP is a abbriation for....

Shit I cant spell....

dont worrie
neethr kan ay

quote:

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Originally posted by Genital-Warfare:
Well i think my image is working now its got a wierd white line on the right if someone can fix this be my guest.

CTR

---

Yeah I fixed your code.

Acetone peroxide is formed when hydrogen peroxide 30% acts on acetone. The introduction of dilute sulfuric acid causes the reaction to go into completion.

There are actually two isomers of acetone peroxide, the first is tricycloacetone peroxide and the second is dicycloacetone peroxide. Both of these compounds are very similar, but the reaction seems to favor the tricyclo over the dicyclo. Both will be made in the reaction to differing degrees. The trimmer has about 80% the power of TNT.

A quantity the size of a pea in contact with a flame will burn instantaneously with a small 'pop' and producing a fireball, much like HMTD does. Any sign of confinement will ensure that ignition will rapidly give rise to detonation.

Acetone peroxide is a powerful primary explosive. It, as with other explosive peroxides, seems to be very volatile. In standing 10 days at room temperature, 50% of the sample will completely volatilize. It's vaporizable nature makes it a explosive that would have to be used immediately after manufacture. However, this explosive is compatible with metals and will not cause their corrosion and the subsequent dangers involved. It is also compatible with picric acid, R.D.X., T.N.T. and P.E.T.N. It is highly friction sensitive and extreme care should be taken to avoid this. Acetone peroxide is one of the most sensitive explosive known to man. Great care would be needed to handle this explosive carefully. Mixtures of R.D.X. and Picric acid with acetone peroxide are reported to be used between primary explosive and the base charge. Mixtures such as picric acid / acetone peroxide (40/60) or similar mixtures with R.D.X. and P.E.T.N. will give explosives greatly increased resistance to impact without losing much performance. These dried crystals would be ready to load into detonators for immediate use as the storage stability is not very good.

DETONATION VELOCITY: 3750 M/sec. @ 0.92 G/cc
5300 M/sec. @ 1.18 G/cc

FRICTION SENSITIVITY: Very Sensitive!!!

Are we going to give someone credit for all that PhoeniXKEA?

Oh Sure...Ctrl C Ctrl V www.xinventions.com
but it is common knowledge...sometimes worth reminding insted of senseless dribble

actually http://www.xinventions.com/main/pyro/ap.htm

but close enough thank you for posting that even though every one on this board that has been here for over 3 months has been to that site and mega's site i guess it still is worth a little bit to through around info but if your going to copy and paste please give credit were credit is do or eles people will yell at you and most likly shun you for steal others work and claim it as your own .... just a thought