I recently discovered this easy to make substance known as thermite. I have all the ingrediance BUT I just wanna double check the ratios so I dont waste this weekend getting all the stuff. From what I have gathered (there isnt much on thermite) it is three parts Iron(III) Oxide (Not rust as most people seem to think) and two parts Aluminum powder 400-600 grade (I could only get 400). I also need to know if a sparkler will light it. Because I think there is magnesium in sparklers. Kuz if not I'll need to jack some magnesium ribon from the science lab.

Thnx for any info and I'll get some picks of tests.

Also incase anyone cares. I'm planning to put it into a co2 container (generously donated to me by these retards who tryed to shoot me with a paint ball gun but failed. So they threw it at me ) with eather a magnesium ribbon as a wick(not sure how well that will work) or a sparkler.

quote:

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Originally posted by CulexuS:
Also incase anyone cares.

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get me some pics of this and then i might care

DAMMIT MY THERMITE WONT WORK!

I Have tried many ratios and it still won't work!

I am using good aluminum, (I use it in my homemade flash powder, it works great), and I use good Iron oxide:





I am getting tired of wasting my magnesium ribbon!

I need help!

Well see that is exactly why I'm asking for help before I waste my time with the wrong ratios...

what i do is but a layer of magnesium powder at the top, about 3-5mm thick, so when the magnesium ribbon lights it it creates enough heat to set off the thermite. i think its something like 2950 degrees centigrade that you need to set it off

Forget the mg ribbon get a file and one of those firestarter blocks from the sports store, file that bitch right down to asmall mountain of fine mg. It'll work way better for your purposes.

The side cover on my new husquavarna chainsaw is made out of magnesium. When I break it I'll be filing for a week.

Arent you supposed to heat the Iron Oxide and Alum powder together in a pan first? That's what I heard from the thermite file that was removed from this site. And tryptamine, buy magnesium wedges instead of waiting for your huskie to break down, their practically indestructable!

I heated the rust untill it turned a darker brown (in the pic)

But heating the aluminum?? I never heard anything about that.

Its not rust heated I dont think... I think that makes Fe(II) oxide. I hear that if you burn steal wool until it is all soot, that makes Fe(III) which is what you need. I'm not sure but thats the info I have =/ And its the "Fe(III)" I have if im wrong I'll have to make some real Fe(III)

Yeah you need actual iron oxide, not rust, rust is a mixture of oxides and hydroxides, you need a fine BLACK powder for thermite.

My husky will never break down(I take care of my baby)side covers crack from getting hit by the chain when it comes off.

Great! now can someone tell me what ratio works?

Iron oxide : Aluminum

8:3
3:2
1:1

These are all the ratios I have read about, which one is the right one?

iron oxide isnt rust? shit. but when i coated a sparkler in that shit and tissue paper it burnt under water

Rat_Bastard

I heard the ratio of 11 parts alum 7 parts Iron Oxide but it may be the other way around because it's been 6 months since I read that file.

Tryptamine

Your chain should never come off the bar, my husky's chain has been on for 2 years and it's never hopped bar, but my stihl kicks husky ass as far as powerheads go, get an 066, they kick ass!

tryptamine and olywaanarchy
u should have a comp to see whos got the power see how many lamp posts and power poles u can cut down in an hour

No, you misunderstood static_firefly. Iron (III) oxide isn't rust. Iron (II) oxide is. Thermite calls for Fe(III) not Fe(II) which is a common misconception. Of course I still could be wrong in which case someone can correct me

quote:

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Originally posted by Rat_Bastard:
DAMMIT MY THERMITE WONT WORK!

I Have tried many ratios and it still won't work!

I am using good aluminum, (I use it in my homemade flash powder, it works great), and I use good Iron oxide:





I am getting tired of wasting my magnesium ribbon!

I need help!

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just wondering but were abouts did you get your Al ??

The thermite mixture should be composed of 25.3% Al and 74.7% Fe2O3 (by weight) to provide the proper molar quantities I mix the two reactants thoroughly, using anywhere from 30 - 120 g of thermite mixture
the reaction is as followed

2Al + Fe2O3 ---> Al2O3 + 2Fe

Exellent.

I got my chemicals from my trusty friend who is a retired chemistry teacher.

what is the best way to get Al powder other then grinding a bar down

Try a paint store, I heard they carry it.

what would they use it for ?

I got mine from a art store... they sell it as some kind of shining material. i guess your supsoto put it on something to make it shinny, i dunno but i got it

aaaaaaaaaaany way, We actualy havent had any real adcive here... all we know is a few more people need to know the ratios... I'm gonna try the 3:2 ratio this weekend, I'll get picks for ya to see when I'm done... hope it works!

may luck be with you my friend

i think art stores sell it as a glitter.

Paint stores sell it as a paint additive to make paint metallic- Look at some car paint and you'll see what it does.

Glitter sold at most places isn't aluminum but is plasic coated mylar, which doesn't help us any.

~Zero the Inestimable

Ya its not sold as glitter, its sold as a paint additive like zero said.

Forgot to tell people results... Didn't work... waste of a good strip of magnesium. Well I'll try the other ratios this week (spring break!). If I get any results I'll take pics and post it.

A paper that I read from my chemistry class states that its 3 parts Iron(III) oxide to 1 part aluminium powder.

Well i am far from an expert( in explosives and such ), but i have never been able to make this i have got the finest of ingredients yet nothing.
My old chem teacher in uni (with 23 years of experience i might add)could never make it (he came close though- didnt burn properly) -and he had access to anything you wanted.
So just my experiences.....

The ferroaluminium mixture needs to be completely anhydrous, i.e. have no moisture in it at all.

8 grams rust to 3 grams aluminum filings is the ratio you are looking for.

can someone make this clear to me once and for all?- what kind of Fe and how to get it?

Well, you need rust. The best way to make alot of it is....

a) get an electric train transformer
b) attach a common nail to the PLUS (+) end of the transformer
c) get a glass jar
d) fill it with water
e) put salt [regular table salt
is fine] into the water
f) put the other end (-) into water with the nail [leave the transformer
out, of course]
g) turn on the transformer
h) let the contraption run overnight
i) seperate out all the red shit [that's the rust] with a filter or a
spoon.
j) let the stuff dry [like on a paper towel]
k) that's it! you have rust!

You DONT want rust... That is Fe(II) Oxide... You want black power stuff... I made it by burning steel wool untill it was all black soot. That is Fe(III) Oxide, which is what you want.

Yes, listen to Culexus, he is right.

If you have been attempting to make thermite with Iron(II) oxide i.e. Rust, then it won't work. You need Iron(III) oxide, from burning iron, probably the easiest way from attaining it is by burning iron filings or iron wire.

The reason for this is because in Iron(II) oxide (FEO), the iron has an oxidation state of +2. Whereas in Iron(III) oxide (FE2O3), it has an oxidation state of +3. This means that when it is reduced by the aluminium, more energy is released because more electrons are being transferred between the aluminium and the iron.

I think I see the problem here.

The magnesium ribbon won't work because it's contacting only a small portion of your thermite and burns fairly quickly.
Same with the pile of magnesium filings- the heat is there but if you don't have enough it burns too fast to get the reaction going.

Thermite isn't like sugar & nitrate/chlorate, or any other host of combos. It has the reactant properties of rock (figure of speech). You're talking about two metals that need to be brought up to a very high heat (and kept there) before it can become a self-sustaining inferno.

You need an igniter that keeps the juice going long enough for the metals to begin reacting on their own.

An acquaintance uses Al powder and Mg filings (1:2 ratio) thoroughly mixed with Potassium nitrate (1 pt Al/Mg mixture to 1 part Potassium nitrate). He spreads it over the top of his thermite till it's about 1/4" or a little more deep.

Since a fuse won't get that going he puts some sugar/chlorate in the middle of it with a fuse sticking out.

I don't know why he does it that way when *I* think it would be easier to just drop the Potassium Nitrate and mix the Al/Mg with the sugar chlorate.

That's supposed to burn hot enough (and long enough) for the thermite to get going on its own.

Even though the info is second hand, hope it helps...

ya I think your right, I was gonna try putting Mg in a pop can mixed with KNO3 with a paper divider then the thermite on top. That way when the wick (what ever it is..) will go to the bottom lighting the Mg and KNO3 which will burn under the paper divider letting the thermite drop on it... That would work right? Because the KNO3 will oxidize the Mg so the thermite wont put it out... Anyway just a thought... Gimme better lighting ideas if you have them. I don't think this CO2 container will work well... Alas...

I've never heard of a "bottom-up" setup before, only "top-down". It might work. I guess if you have enough materials you could try it both ways to see which works best....

Good Luck.

quote:

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Originally posted by Prodigy45:
Well, you need rust. The best way to make alot of it is....

a) get an electric train transformer
b) attach a common nail to the PLUS (+) end of the transformer
c) get a glass jar
d) fill it with water
e) put salt [regular table salt
is fine] into the water
f) put the other end (-) into water with the nail [leave the transformer
out, of course]
g) turn on the transformer
h) let the contraption run overnight
i) seperate out all the red shit [that's the rust] with a filter or a
spoon.
j) let the stuff dry [like on a paper towel]
k) that's it! you have rust!

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i think every one has read the anarchist cookbook but thanks for your input

just tryin to help, only thing i could find on it. =\

[This message has been edited by Prodigy45 (edited 03-16-2002).]

not really a big deal im just bored right now so im seeing what i can complain about or help out on