People love to debate the same shit over and over again but they can never back up what they say with common sense. Below are some questions that I always try to ask people when a debate about "god" arises. I never get an answer because they are too busy screaming the same ol' bullshit and talking over me, so they don't usually listen or completley ignore me:

1.You guys claim that the universe could not have always just existed, something must have created it. Was "god" always there? who created him? and the god before that? And the one before that? and so on??

2.Do you believe that Adam and Eve are our "true" parents? Explain how could two people could populate the planet without the human race going extinct! Even if the world started off with 50 humans we would still be endangered and eventually go extinct. Unless you believe the silly bible stories of humans living to be 900 yrs old. Show me the proof. Our human DNA shows we never lived that long.

3.If god gave us all "freewill" then why would he only give us one option: worship him or go to hell? Pretty sadistic don't you think?

4.If god really exists, why does he need people to write the bible for him and preach his word? Why doesn't he make himself known? That would save everyone the trouble of being confused and choosing the "wrong path"

5.Do you really believe that the earth is only a couple of thousand years old?? How do you explain fossils that are millions of years old?

6.Why is it so illogical to believe in what we can percieve, than to believe in something that we can only imagine?Ex:"god"

7.What makes you think your religion (Christianity)is the right one above all others that predate yours by a couple of thousand years?? I say this because Xtians have a tendency to think this way.

I dare anyone to answer these questions without changing the subject or stating thier beliefs on anyone without proof.

I'll try to get back to your questions later, but before that I have to enquire about your last statement. If I were to attempt to answer your questions, would I need to provide solid proof? If I needed to, then wouldn't that undermine the faith that religion requires? You are setting what I deem to be an impossible task. You should be a bit more reasonable.

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Originally posted by Veronyka:
1.You guys claim that the universe could not have always just existed, something must have created it. Was "god" always there? who created him? and the god before that? And the one before that? and so on??

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God exists outside spacetime, therfor he isn't governed by space time.

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2.Do you believe that Adam and Eve are our "true" parents? Explain how could two people could populate the planet without the human race going extinct! Even if the world started off with 50 humans we would still be endangered and eventually go extinct. Unless you believe the silly bible stories of humans living to be 900 yrs old. Show me the proof. Our human DNA shows we never lived that long.

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Well around that time people could live to be at most probably 42. Adam and eve were both 20 for a fair bet, so they have 6 children and they are 22, when their parents die. Besides bible stories are just that, stories.

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3.If god gave us all "freewill" then why would he only give us one option: worship him or go to hell? Pretty sadistic don't you think?

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Well in my opinion people can't change their futures, therfor god knows who goes to heaven and hell before he creates them. In fact you could say they go to hell because of the way god created them.

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4.If god really exists, why does he need people to write the bible for him and preach his word? Why doesn't he make himself known? That would save everyone the trouble of being confused and choosing the "wrong path"

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Well the Christian "god" says that people should have enough faith to believe in him even though they have never seen, met, or heard him.

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5.Do you really believe that the earth is only a couple of thousand years old?? How do you explain fossils that are millions of years old?

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The Earth is millions of years old, it's proven with fossils and a lot of other stuff. Anyone who believes that the Earth is only a couple thousand years old is either too lazy to find the answer to that question, or plain stupid.

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6.Why is it so illogical to believe in what we can percieve, than to believe in something that we can only imagine?Ex:"god"

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Well some things we can't perceive, like the chaos theory so we have to imagine it.

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7.What makes you think your religion (Christianity)is the right one above all others that predate yours by a couple of thousand years?? I say this because Xtians have a tendency to think this way.

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Well most Christians believe that their religion is the RIGHT one. That is what they're supposed to believe I suppose. Before anyone can make any judgement that their belief is correct, while all others are wrong needs to actually study the other beliefs as much as they study their own. Ahh run on sentences.

As a little game, how about you try to guess my religious stance and belief.

You did not answer my first question. Who created god? Was he always there? You claim that god exists "outside of space" and there for he is not governed by space time. What is outside of space?? And how did you come to this conclusion?

"Well the Christian "god" says that people should have enough faith to believe in him even though they have never seen, met, or heard him."

Just like we should believe in Santa, The Tooth Fairy and Bigfoot right?

"The Earth is millions of years old, it's proven with fossils and a lot of other stuff. Anyone who believes that the Earth is only a couple thousand years old is either too lazy to find the answer to that question, or plain stupid."

Exactly. That just goes to show how the Bible is bullshit.

"Well some things we can't perceive, like the chaos theory so we have to imagine it."

We don't imagine it. It's a hypothesis, thewre is a difference.

"Well most Christians believe that their religion is the RIGHT one. That is what they're supposed to believe I suppose. Before anyone can make any judgement that their belief is correct, while all others are wrong needs to actually study the other beliefs as much as they study their own. Ahh run on sentences."

Believe,believe,believe. That is why thier minds are so limited. Learning comes from doubt, NOT belief.


"As a little game, how about you try to guess my religious stance and belief."

Hmm...let me guess, judging from your answers you belive in a higher power, but not really in the biblical sense. God created the Big Bang right??



[This message has been edited by Veronyka (edited 01-22-2003).]

Don't bother entertaining this guys 'test'.
He won't appreciate a single thing you say anyway.

"3.If god gave us all "freewill" then why would he only give us one option: worship him or go to hell? Pretty sadistic don't you think?"

i quite like that one, 'ill give you a choice, but you had better choose how i want you to other wise you face eternal suffering'.

it doesn't seem all that fair.

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Originally posted by just.landed:
I'll try to get back to your questions later, but before that I have to enquire about your last statement. If I were to attempt to answer your questions, would I need to provide solid proof? If I needed to, then wouldn't that undermine the faith that religion requires? You are setting what I deem to be an impossible task. You should be a bit more reasonable.

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I am being reasonable. If you are trying to debate the existance of god you can only do so with solid proof. Or at least, some type of evidence. When we debate about evolution we at least have some evidence, like fossils etc. What evidence do you have besides a book that was written by other people?
If you people can't prove the existance of god then you have no right to try and cram the idea down our throats.

Some kind of evidence....hmmmmmmm

How about the fact that there are absolutely millions of people who believe in Gods existence.
This at least makes you wonder that there just might be some truth in this whole God thingy.
People have travelled the path to find god and have found it. They found it within themselves, for at the very core of their mind is the soul, which has all the answers.
Spiritual followers such as Buddists or Hindus practice meditation which I guess is how they reach the core of their mind.
Perhaps this explain why many eastern gurus are so god damn wise. They have found god and learned frmo his infinate wisdom.

Dude, do you wanna get angry at people for believing in 'this' and 'that', or are you really interested in finding answers to the great mysteries of life?

There are answers and if you actually search for them with an open mind, you'll be amazed at what you will find.

Goddam, this site is just filled with people arguing about whether or not God exists.
Why can't we just try and suss things out together instead of constantly trying to blast ideas out of the water as soon as they arise.

[This message has been edited by Beany (edited 01-22-2003).]

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Originally posted by Veronyka:
You did not answer my first question. Who created god? Was he always there? You claim that god exists "outside of space" and there for he is not governed by space time. What is outside of space?? And how did you come to this conclusion?

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Well if god exists outside spacetime then he isn't governed by the LOGIC of spacetime. Therfor god could exist and not exist at the same time. He could lift even the boulder that he created too heavy for him to lift.

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"Well the Christian "god" says that people should have enough faith to believe in him even though they have never seen, met, or heard him."

Just like we should believe in Santa, The Tooth Fairy and Bigfoot right?[QUOTE]
Nope, you're taking this example out of context. Christians believe that if "god" reveals himself everyone would believe in him. So when he doesn't reveal himself, only the greatest followers do believe, while the unbelievers and swayers don't.


[QUOTE]"As a little game, how about you try to guess my religious stance and belief."

Hmm...let me guess, judging from your answers you belive in a higher power, but not really in the biblical sense. God created the Big Bang right??

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Good job

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Originally posted by Beany:
Some kind of evidence....hmmmmmmm

How about the fact that there are absolutely millions of people who believe in Gods existence.
This at least makes you wonder that there just might be some truth in this whole God thingy.
[This message has been edited by Beany (edited 01-22-2003).]

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Sorry, that's not enough. The reason why religion was invented in the first place was to explain what we couldn't understand. ex:lightning, thunder,earthquakes,the universe,etc. Then it morphed into a set a rules and doctrine to control the masses.
Some people stuck with that thinking and others advanced once they educated themselves and learned about the earth, universe,logic and what makes us tick.

You're asking questions people have been struggling with for millenia. These questions are based on faith, and faith has no right or wrong answer, so don't look for one.

I think JamesTheGod did an excellent job at answering your questions.

Let's try this again. James the god: What is outside of space? How can something exist, yet not exist at the same time? HOW DID YOU COME TO THIS CONCLUSION? And if god isn't governed by our logic then how do we really know he's there? If we have to "believe" he's there then he is just a part of our imagination.

So god doesn't want to reveal himself so that the "true" followers can go to him. How can there be any "true" followers when all our actions are already predetermined by Him? I'm sorry it doesn't add up. That also negates our supposed "freewill".

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK IS OUTSIDE OF SPACE SO DON'T ASK!!!

No... his Gynecologist came to this conclusion. Go suck a cock, woman.

IT'S FUCKING FAITH SO LAY OFF!!

please excuse the flame... I hate imbociles.

P.S. like the alliteration?


[This message has been edited by AYBABTU (edited 01-22-2003).]

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Originally posted by AYBABTU:
You're asking questions people have been struggling with for millenia. These questions are based on faith, and faith has no right or wrong answer, so don't look for one.

I think JamesTheGod did an excellent job at answering your questions.

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These questions are NOT based on faith. They are based on logic. The belief in god is based on faith. So you just said it yourself! The belief in god is not fact, it can never be proven because it is only based on everyone's belief. He exists only in the minds in the individuals who have "faith" in him. Correct?

That's the whole point of religion, so quit trying to make God more than something that's in our minds.

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Originally posted by AYBABTU:
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK IS OUTSIDE OF SPACE SO DON'T ASK!!!

No... his Gynecologist came to this conclusion. Go suck a cock, woman.

IT'S FUCKING FAITH SO LAY OFF!!

please excuse the flame... I hate imbociles.

P.S. like the alliteration?


[This message has been edited by AYBABTU (edited 01-22-2003).]

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Not smart enough to participate in intelligent debate? So you have to banter, get riled up and insult like a fucking idiot? Typical of your kind. If no one can back up what they state then they have no business stating it in an intellectual debate in the first place. Nuff said.

see the trick is to listen to things people say.

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Originally posted by just.landed:
That's the whole point of religion, so quit trying to make God more than something that's in our minds.

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Isn't "faith" in our minds?? A belief, correct? Thank you. No one else can grasp that simple fact.

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Originally posted by AYBABTU:
see the trick is to listen to things people say.

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I listen and question. Knowledge comes from doing both. Not just listening and taking in everything that is feed to you. That is the difference between religion and Atheism.

Mod's please close this thread it's becoming pure flame.

[This message has been edited by AYBABTU (edited 01-22-2003).]

Veronyka, you know the simple fact that religion is just beliefs. So it was pointless of you to have asked these questions. Why try to get answers when someone who has faith wouldn't need them?

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Originally posted by just.landed:
Veronyka, you know the simple fact that religion is just beliefs. So it was pointless of you to have asked these questions. Why try to get answers when someone who has faith wouldn't need them?

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I asked these questions because I'm sick of people spewing nonsense all over this messageboard without backing up thier claims. I thought challenging them to think would be amusing. But now I see I upset everyone is because they were forced to think a little bit. So I guess there really is no room for intelligent debate when it comes to religion because it's so absolute. If you believe in god then there is no other alternative to think about. It is set in stone. What herd mentality! Some food for thought: Even Jesus refers to his followers as "sheep"! What is the purpose of this forum anyway if we can't debate religion?

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Originally posted by AYBABTU:
Mod's please close this thread it's becoming pure flame.

[This message has been edited by AYBABTU (edited 01-22-2003).]

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Awww...are you scared?? Is it forcing you to think too much? Go pop an aspirin and you'll be fine. Sheep.

Veronyka,

Perhaps if you respected people's beliefs we would respect your questions. I will give you my personal answers to your original questions now. No more asking the same questions over and over. Here we go.

1.) No One I repeat No One KNOWS if God even exists. So no One knows if God Always existed. Belief in God is based entirely on faith. Faith is in your mind, yes, Veronyka. Some people can believe God was created, but Christian's,Jews, and Muslims believe in One ever-existing, omnipotent God. There is no God before God before God according to these religions. But you can believe what you want.

2. I agree with you on this one. Adam and Eve had two sons, and they went out and started families. But I thought Adam and Eve were the only people on the planet? Doesn't make sense. Therefore, I consider them as simply a story in the bible. Again, Different people have different beliefs. There is no one correct answer. Also, the 900 year old ages of many people in the early part of the bible is simply a story. I agree science completely disproves it. You can believe it, you don't have to. All part of faith. People think different things.

3.)Free will is wonderful. It allows us to fuck up our lives without God taking the blame. Again, people think different things. You are only thinking about the Christian/Jewish God. You should specify what religion you are talking about. If people didn't have free will life would be pointless since everything would already be set. God wants us to make our own decision on how to run our lives. Don't start refuting me on this. This is what some people believe. Faith is just in the mind. I'm not arguing against anyone I am explaining. I'm not trying to disprove your faith in any way so don't be threatened. Oh and that sadistic stuff is a rhetorical question.

4.)God did show himself in the form of Jesus. The people rejected him, and had him killed. (according to Christian belief). We do not know how God thinks, because we have no way of communicating with him. But Christians belief it is based on faith and not proof. Again, explaining, not arguing. This is how it is, so their is nothing to debate.

5.)Most people believe that the world is as old as the scientific community states. I do as well. The seven days of creation is a story in the bible. People interpret it differently. It is one of the most highly debated areas of the bible. There are no clear answers. I explain fossils that are millions of years old as fossils that are millions of years old.

6.) It is impossible to understand something that we have never seen, never experienced. Since science is so important to you, the most important job of the scientist is to gather data. We have no data on God except what is in religious texts. Since this is not solid fact, it is constantly debated by people like you. And since it is debated, it is not entirely understood. Which means God is not entirely understood. Everything is based on faith and open to interpretation.

When dealing with religion, there are not many answers, Veronyka.

I hope this helps.

For Great Justice (and understanding)
AYBABTU

[This message has been edited by AYBABTU (edited 01-23-2003).]

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Originally posted by AYBABTU:
see what I mean?

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Who started with the flaming, hmm? There was no flaming until you made that stupid remark earlier. Is it possible to have an intelligent debate here now? If you have nothing productive to contribute please move on.