I've grown up all my life as an aetheist...
But now I'm having some problems with my life. I feel like I have no purpose, that I'm going nowhere, that I'm just a meaningless speck. I feel like no matter what I do, it doesn't make a difference - everything, even the universe is going to dissapear - become nothing, one day. I guess I've known this for a while - and also that this is a truth - but now it's getting me exremly depressed and life is becoming useless for me. I've always approached life with a very biological and scientific approach, and I've come to the conclusion that I'm only here to bring my genes on forward - something that I know will someday dissapear. It's getting to the point where I'm really so depressed, and I just want it all to stop. I don't want to become some pleasure and "instant karma" maniac, and I know that life is more full of pain than pleasure. I wonder if this is all due to the fact that I'm not religeous. People of all (well most) religeons don't seem to have this problem - that is, they know it will end, but they seem to be fine with it. Their happy. I know some people will say that this is because the've been brainwashed or something...but I've talked to a lot of theologians and philosophers - and if they can argue it, and even admit faults in religeon, I don't think that that is true. Also, I believe that some of this peace that the believers have comes from the fact that they believe in an afterlife. I know that I cannot believe this fact, my origins and roots of belief (aetheism), are too scientifical, but they deny me in believing in such beautiful ideas. What should I do?
Should I accept that what I've discovered is true - and wait for something to take me out? Or find a religeon that works with my inquisitive and scientific nature, that will provide me with answers, and hapiness. Right now, I'm looking at Taoism, which appears to me to be the best, for many reasons. Can anyone please help me? Is my choice right? Should I go forward...or stop?

Not everyone can handle Atheism, maybe you should look into being agnostic if you need something to hold on to.

That's an idea....but I need some reasons and explenations...I'm kinda hard to convince. Make your case, I've got (some) time...

You say that Atheism makes you feel insignificant because you don't think that anything matters because when you die you'll be nothing but a corpse.

Agnostics believe in the possibility of a deity, but aren't sure. So you won't feel meaningless because there is still a possibility of something out there.

I'm Atheist, it works for me, but not for everyone.

Unless you count religious texts as being true, which many don't, then there is no proof of any afterlife. But there is no proof that there isn't an afterlife either. Many argue that there isn't because of flaws in the bible, but their arguements could only prove that the bible is false, which doesn't neccessarily mean there is no afterlife. I don't care what anyone tells you, if they haven't died and seen first hand what happens then they don't know for sure. I'm not too worried about it though. If there isn't an afterlife, I won't know until I'm dead, at which point I won't care(or can't care). So my advice is just enjoy life.

I can honestly say i was, am and probably always be in the same position as you. for a while i was aethiest because of all of my depressions. for a while i thought the world was crap, actually i still do and i realize all of this. i question why the man in charge created basically a living hell for all of us. i question all of this. i know it seems funny, but before expanding my mind with the likes of shrooms or acid or whatever, i always had the no hope ideal. if there was a god then hes screwing me up very badly. doing all that stuff i do i thought so much, i thoguht and thought and thought and i still dont have thr answer but i guess the thing i did realize is everyone in the entire world lives in their own sub-worlds, because the truth is no one ever tells u really really what is on their minds, why did god create us that way. i dont know. but what i came to realize is whether you call it christianity, judaism, or whatever, the thing is i would like to believe that somehow this messed up world we live in has some sort of meaning...what it is i have not a clue. but if everything was meaningless why dont we just all commit mass suicide. i mean ok yes this world is sooo wrong and immoral, but the fact that i have the morals i do, which is not to live life the way the conformists do, because even though the conformists say they have these morals they obviously dont live up to them. as far as heaven, hell, afterlife, sprits, i dont know. but i guess what im tryinbg to get across is i am so messed up mentally and so numb emotionally. when i finally came to grips about it i thought....why r all of the crazies(like me) so much more thoughtful and understanding and open minded, and why r the higher ups so horrible to us all. maybe its gods version of sarcasm, maybe its some plan. but lets say there is no god. the scientific approach is a good way to see things, to find out the truth, but to me, to say there is no god, or to say the meaninglessness of it all is as naive is as saying there is a god. maybe we took the idea and ran the wrong way because to me if we stopped fighting each other and actually worked together somehow, maybe we could make it work. to me the idea is what i truly believe in, because theres no way to ever figure out where this all came from and why it all went so wrong, i guess everyone needs something to hold onto and this is my thing, as well as other thiungs of course, but i agree with you in some respects and i hope i made some sense. i realize when i talk i ramble and try to get a million and one points across lol cant help it. im not new to totse i kinda just sat back and observed it all and i like this site and its ideas, but i guess i finally wanted to talk. god(or whatever that thing is that made exsistence exsist) cursed me with horrible insecurity so the only time i can get my ideas across is when i write or when im drunk enough. i ramble a lot too i could write forever so i guess this is when ill stop.

Change your user name while you still have only one post, it shrinks all the other columns. Add spaces or something.

The whole thing about life is that it is a matter of belief. You say you are an atheist but that just means you don't believe in a god as a personage. You still have beliefs and these beliefs form your "god" for you, if you admit it or not. Maybe that doesn't fit your definition of god but nonetheless an argument can be made for it.

Like say your belief is that things just happen by chance, which is a common scientific belief used in evolution, for instance. Then that means you use this belief to explain why things happen. If this is your absolute belief, your only one, then this is your only "god".

But probably you have other absolute beliefs, such as the speed of light in a vacuum is such and such a number and doesn't vary. These other beliefs can also be seen as your other "gods".

So it ends up that most people have multiple gods and they basically worship them by having faith in them. So you might say they aare pantheists instead of atheists or christians or whatever.

And it turns out that there is a system of belief that does away with these multiple gods and replaces them with one god or belief that encompasses all the others.

This belief is that all questions have more than one correct answer. This idea is contradictory and seems illogical to all other ways of thinking that can be devised. And it is the only idea that is unique and cannot be explained by any other idea.

Any other "religion" that a person searches for besides this belief will eventually not be able to answer all questions and will lead to disappointment. Taoism, for instance, was very good at describing the fruits of the belief that I alluded to above, but Taoism may have fallen short in not being able to say where these observations came from. Otherwise Taoism probably would have succinctly stated this belief, in some form. (Or maybe it did state this somewhere. I haven't studied it in depth.)

You are not without religion or god(s). That is just your viewpoint on the matter. Try this one out.

I suggest observing objects. God(s) is/are knowable through the creature, and by the creature. Be sure to observe the process of revelation(I think),union, judgment, and information [investment of form] in all knowledge.

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Originally posted by Nohman:
I feel like no matter what I do, it doesn't make a difference - everything, even the universe is going to dissapear - become nothing, one day.

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Heh. You sound like me. Check out some of the replies to an earlier post of mine here.

Death is the end. You can give your life meaning if you choose to. Just what that meaning is is up to you. But, that meaning dies with you. If there is an ultimate purpose to life, I don't think we humans will ever discover it. You're right in that nothing you do will make a difference in the grand scheme of things. The universe is indifferent to whether or not you even exist.

It sounds like you're probably going through a bad stretch in your life. I start thinking just like you do when I'm having a rough time. Religious people can always fall back on their beliefs to help them weather the rough times in their lives. Atheists don't have this. But you do have an advantage over them. You're free in a way that they will never be. You can do things because you want to, and not because your god demands it. You can help the poor or rape little kittens and the universe doesn't give a shit. In the end, you will end up in just the same place as mother theresa and hitler.

You need to take advantage of that freedom and do what makes you happy, whatever that may be. You may have to watch your back around society's morals/ethics/laws if you decide the dodgy path makes you happy, but other than that you're golden.

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I don't want to become some pleasure and "instant karma" maniac, and I know that life is more full of pain than pleasure.

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Oops. Well I guess you should just kill yourself then. It doesn't really matter anyway.

[This message has been edited by ytrewq (edited 12-09-2002).]

Human existance does have meaning. Why else would life be built to endure?

If we were meaningless, life would have not endured as long as it did.

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Originally posted by gombowlzombie:
Human existance does have meaning. Why else would life be built to endure?

If we were meaningless, life would have not endured as long as it did.

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Life is built to endure because the life that wasn't built to endure isn't around any more. It's simple natural selection. This in no way implies any kind of meaning.

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Originally posted by ytrewq:
Life is built to endure because the life that wasn't built to endure isn't around any more. It's simple natural selection. This in no way implies any kind of meaning.

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It's how I percieve life.

Doesn't matter if you think it a matter of random seltion. I still think that way.

i presently consider myself spiritualy confused but taoism has had quite a few answers to questions that pop up every once in a while, but if the immortal words of lao tzu don't sooth your restless spirit kno that there is some sort of exsistance after death because of the SCIENTIFIC principle that energy cannot be created or destroyed, you go somewhere... don't know if that helps... but i wish u luck.

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Originally posted by gombowlzombie:
It's how I percieve life.

Doesn't matter if you think it a matter of random seltion. I still think that way.

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You asked a question ("why else would life be built to endure?"), and I gave you a very reasonable answer that's consistent with observation. You can either accept the answer or reject it. However, I think it's a bad idea to reject something simply because you "think that way." If you don't wish to have your questions answered in the future, then don't ask them on a public forum

Thanks, all of you. I'm checking out the links right now and thinking 'bout your posts. I'm still searching, but this is going to be a hard and important decisions. Again, thanks.

Life doesn't have any unambiguous non-anecdotal meaning or greater purpose. It's like the spider Charlotte said to Orson the pig in "Charlotte's Web". "We're here, we live for a little, and then we die.".

Such is life. An improbable coincidence most likely, but who knows.

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Originally posted by ytrewq:
You asked a question ("why else would life be built to endure?"), and I gave you a very reasonable answer that's consistent with observation. You can either accept the answer or reject it. However, I think it's a bad idea to reject something simply because you "think that way." If you don't wish to have your questions answered in the future, then don't ask them on a public forum

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Next time I should avoid rhetoric questions.

"Human existance does have meaning. Why else would life be built to endure?
If we were meaningless, life would have not endured as long as it did."

What about cochroaches and crocodiles ?

I don't see atheism as necessarily implying a pointless life.
It just means a life without a pre-manufactured point.

As an atheist, I think you'll have to find your own point in life, whether it be art, philanthropy, self-sacrifice or baking oatmeal cookies.

In terms of science providing all the answers, that makes science the religion of the 21st century.

"Heh. You sound like me. Check out some of the replies to an earlier post of mine here.

Death is the end. You can give your life meaning if you choose to. Just what that meaning is is up to you. But, that meaning dies with you. If there is an ultimate purpose to life, I don't think we humans will ever discover it. You're right in that nothing you do will make a difference in the grand scheme of things. The universe is indifferent to whether or not you even exist.

It sounds like you're probably going through a bad stretch in your life. I start thinking just like you do when I'm having a rough time. Religious people can always fall back on their beliefs to help them weather the rough times in their lives. Atheists don't have this. But you do have an advantage over them. You're free in a way that they will never be. You can do things because you want to, and not because your god demands it. You can help the poor or rape little kittens and the universe doesn't give a shit. In the end, you will end up in just the same place as mother theresa and hitler.

You need to take advantage of that freedom and do what makes you happy, whatever that may be. You may have to watch your back around society's morals/ethics/laws if you decide the dodgy path makes you happy, but other than that you're golden.


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I don't want to become some pleasure and "instant karma" maniac, and I know that life is more full of pain than pleasure.
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Oops. Well I guess you should just kill yourself then. It doesn't really matter anyway."

Thanks ytrewq, that's been the most constructive comment so far, but it don't really help much.

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Originally posted by Nohman:
Thanks ytrewq, that's been the most constructive comment so far, but it don't really help much.

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I know exactly how you feel. But this isn't really something others can directly answer for you. You know as much as we do about the purpose to our lives. If you knew for an absolute fact that you would cease to exist when you died, what would you do? Would you end your life simply because it doesn't matter anyway? Would you try to get as much enjoyment from your life as possible before it was over?

It's in our nature to question our existence. But sometimes while looking afar for all the answers we lose sight of what's right in front of us. Our purpose is to be who we are. Our purpose is to be human. Our purpose is to be inquisitive and generous and spiteful and greedy and loving and all those dichotomous things that make us what we are. The universe has created us,set us up and given us a direction to follow. We will probably never know "why," but we do have a path to follow. That is your purpose. I think that everyone can find happiness by being true to themselves and their purpose in the universe.

Anyway, enough talking out of my ass. This is just my opinion, so take it or leave it.

I agree with you ytrewq. I also try to keep in mind that most people do not derive direct pleasure from other's pain. Therefore, if more people took more responsibility for their own happiness (by doing the things they "feel" are right) then the world would (slowly) become a better place.

That's just my opinion too, by the way.

Hmmmm, this thread has started me thinking again...

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Originally posted by 123Tool:
I agree with you ytrewq. I also try to keep in mind that most people do not derive direct pleasure from other's pain. Therefore, if more people took more responsibility for their own happiness (by doing the things they "feel" are right) then the world would (slowly) become a better place.

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I think our viewpoints differ slightly here. When I say to just be human, I'm including the bad things that are in our nature. These bad things don't hurt us personally, but they can cause trouble for others. The world won't necessarily become a better place. The key isn't in changing the way things are to find happiness. It's finding happiness in the way things are.

wow.
ytrewq I think so too.
but sometimes happy people like making other people happy to keep themselves happy.
i don't think I am necessarily one of them.