The self is nothing, has no meaning, though it is the source of all meanings.

This is a quote from somebody. I think it sums everything up and is the answer to all (at least my) answers.

Thoughts?
Arguments?

Why would self have no meaning?

Because the termination of everyone, and everything's existence is inevitable. Thus nothing you do has any repercussions... unless you're a christian.

I believe the doctrine of selflessness was adopted by Buddhism?

Dead people don't worry about meaning.
What I mean to say is, why would your inevitable destruction distort the meaning of your time spent living?

It wouldnt, but if you believe in an afterlife,then inevidibal destruction would dictate NOTHING you did matters.However being is contradictory in itself. We exist, which means we started, but how can you start with no start? Therefore we dont exist, or we will never end because we have never started, we simply ARE. Im still stuck on that one.

Bogey is right. And i agree with Mr. Smiths last statement.

Isn't being the source of meanings a meaning in itself?

Why would self have no meaning?
why would it?


We justisfy that nothing has meaning without the belief in the afterlife - there is no reason to believe otherwise (at least not logically)... and become free because of it - no more brick walls of beliefs. But because nothing is true there becomes no reason to follow anything (which can be seen as an even worse ball and chain although an easier one to swallow) - at least not under the belief that nothing has meaning... the self then disbelieves and fools itself by applying meaning... it has to for the reason mentioned by the quote.

I said in another topic I was a nihilist - I take that back I have embraced the idea of nihilism then created something I can live with. Maybe I am more free with my rules than most but I too am fooling myself for fear of complete nothingness...

I think you should put down what you are implying by "meaning"
(I don't want this to turn into a debate over semantics)

Is this statement telling me I'm nothing but many things arise from myself like building a house or something. I thought "Nothing will come of nothing"-King Lear

by saying the self has no meaning it just means the self just is. It exists full-stop.

To apply meaning would mean (i'm not sure how to say this) something came before it - this is impossible and you would be adding meaning to something that spawns that need to apply meaning.

bad comparison I know but it's like the chicken and egg problem

Then, would anything have meaning?

What does an afterlife have to do with meaning?

And why would something have to come before something for it to have meaning?

We are talking of meaning as purpose, or raison d`etre, aren't we?

Nothing is true, everything is permissible!

...equals...

Everything is true, everything is permissible!

FoxLeonard

Bogey Man (cool name by the way... I feel like I souldn't be taking you seriously) - nothing would have meaning in an objective sense... it would only have the meaning you attribute to it.

Venefrigus sorry you are right the afterlife isn't the only thing spawning meaning... although logically if you look at all the other reasons properly it is (continuation of species included there is always the big what for?), but I don't want to get into that argument now - you feel there is a higher purpose than yourself yet it is your self that created this idea... whether you did it from observation of the world around you or whatever the idea still had to go through you.
This goes for your other question as well.


The self creates the need for meaning so how can anything objectively have meaning? How can it have true meaning when the only reason you attribute reason is because of the self itself? The self can only have the meaning (reason/whatever) it gives to itself which is subjective as different people will apply different meanings for whatever reasons. This is our flaw or blessing however you look at it I guess.

Fox

I have a tattoo saying nothing is true, everything is permitted and then it say Omni et Nihilum underneath on my back.


edit: sorry for the way my argument seems to repeat itself but communication of this idea is very hard to put into words until you understand where I am coming from.


[This message has been edited by govinda (edited 11-24-2002).]

I'm not sure if this applies...
If nothing has meaning, then what would be the point of the word in that context? it'd be like making up a word, and saying nothing has it. "Nothing has oogely woogely."

now I don't take you seriously

quote:

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Originally posted by govinda:
Fox

I have a tattoo saying nothing is true, everything is permitted and then it say Omni et Nihilum underneath on my back.

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govinda!

Then it says, in essence, what I said above. Or, to be correct: It is said by the man I�m qouting. Same man you�re quoting, if you know you�re quoting...

The stars are matter, we are matter, but does it matter?!

FoxLeonard



[This message has been edited by FoxLeonard (edited 11-25-2002).]

Fox Leonard I must admit not knowing who I am quoting but yeah it says the same as your quote.

quote:

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Originally posted by govinda:
now I don't take you seriously

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Then enlighten me.
How do you know you're talking about anything at all if you've decided nothing has it?
Do you believe that anything has meaning?

quote:

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Originally posted by govinda:
nothing would have meaning in an objective sense...

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Then how do you know your definition of "meaning" is the right one to attribute to the word?

Sorry Bogey Man but you are reading my words the wrong way round... I think. By nothing has meaning I mean there is no meaning to anything. And just because I have come to this conclusion doesn't mean I will follow it... kinda in the same way that I realise eventually I am going to die but that doesn't mean I will kill myself. But I can't give you a good reason for this and I'd rather not think why.

I didn't mean for my other statement to sound offensive, I wrote it with a smile on my face.