Hey guys, I just wanted to remind you that.....JESUS LOVES YOU!!! He has such an awesome plan. It's so sad to see that the devil has you wrapped around his finger. God is the King of all Kings. One day, Ever knee shall bow and every tounge shall confess that Jesus is King!! I can't wait for that day to come. Jesus has such a strong love for His people. He gave you a free will so that you could choose him willingly, or you could choose the world and listen to satan's selfish and stupid lies. God doesn't want you to go to Hell. God made Hell for Satan and his angels. He never meant for his own people to have to suffer in hell. Please believe me. Jesus Christ is on his way back to get his people. Hell is just a massive pit of hate, sin, pain, a non-consuming fire that you will feel buring your flesh for eternity, and you will remember everytime that you could have chosen God but you listened to Satan instead and it will drive you insane. Or you could just believe God's word and ask him for forgivness and live eternity with God in heaven, where we'll worship the Holy One forever and live in a place with golden streets and gates of pearls!! I cant wait!! Well Jesus loves you and I'm going to continue to pray that God will strengthen you're hearts and come to know you and that you will not believe Satans lies any longer. Seeya!!

How can you know its god youre believing?

quote:

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Originally posted by JesusFreak77:
JESUS LOVES YOU!!

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Why?

quote:

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Originally posted by JesusFreak77:
He has such an awesome plan.

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To do what?

quote:

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Originally posted by JesusFreak77:
It's so sad to see that the devil has you wrapped around his finger.

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I didn't know that. Thank you for telling me. I wondered why my back was so stiff and sore.

quote:

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Originally posted by JesusFreak77:
God is the King of all Kings.

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I live in the USA. We don't have a king. Is God President of Presidents also?

quote:

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Originally posted by JesusFreak77:
One day, Ever knee shall bow and every tounge shall confess that Jesus is King!

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Your opinion.

quote:

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Originally posted by JesusFreak77:
He gave you a free will so that you could choose him willingly, or you could choose the world and listen to satan's selfish and stupid lies.

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Thank you. I have made my choice. Now why are you bothering me with this schtuff? I have accepted the fact that you have made your choice. I leave you alone. Why don't you accept the fact that I have made mine and leave me alone?

quote:

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Originally posted by JesusFreak77:
God doesn't want you to go to Hell. God made Hell for Satan and his angels. He never meant for his own people to have to suffer in hell.

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If this is true, I have nothing to worry about. If it is not true, then God is speaking out of both sides of his mouth.

quote:

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Originally posted by JesusFreak77:
Jesus Christ is on his way back to get his people.

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When? This phrase has been used for almost two thousand years and it ain't happened yet.

quote:

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Originally posted by JesusFreak77:
Hell is just a massive pit of hate, sin, pain, a non-consuming fire that you will feel buring your flesh for eternity

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If I am dead, and my soul is in hell, where does this flesh come from?

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Originally posted by JesusFreak77:
and it will drive you insane.

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It cannot drive me insane. I am already insane because I am responding to this schtuff.

quote:

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Originally posted by JesusFreak77:
Or you could just believe God's word and ask him for forgivness

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I do not have to do this. You already told me God loves me. What else needs to be said?

quote:

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Originally posted by JesusFreak77:
live eternity with God in heaven, where we'll worship the Holy One forever and live in a place with golden streets and gates of pearls!!

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This is exactly what my idea of paradise is, walking on lumpy (pearls) cold, metal streets, playing a harp (I have to learn how to play), singing praises (last time I sang, people ran out of the room screaming and holding their ears) to some entity that needs perpetual ego inflation, that only former mere mortals can provide.

quote:

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Originally posted by JesusFreak77:
I cant wait!!

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Well, by gum, I can.

quote:

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Originally posted by JesusFreak77:
Well Jesus loves you and I'm going to continue to pray that God will strengthen you're hearts and come to know you and that you will not believe Satans lies any longer.

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Since I haven't believed Satan's lies so far (don't believe in Satan either), I guess I should say thank you, save your breath.

quote:

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Originally posted by JesusFreak77:
Seeya!!

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We finally agree...Seeya!

Nox

What was I thinking? Jesus, your post has filled me with ejaculatory "truths." I'm going to go to church right now and sign off all my possessions (including my mind) in order to secure my spot in your gold plated bathroom.

Stop molesting our principles and raping our minds.

ALL people are children of god...your religion fools people to believe that the only child of god is jesus...your holy roman empire will someday fall...

quote:

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Originally posted by Nox:

<<<<He has such an awesome plan.>>>>

To do what?
Nox

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Conquer Rhodesia.

Praise the lord. Fight christain soldier. Slay Satan i feel the powwwwwwer

You know what the last time i talked to jesus he owed me an ounce, a six pack and $10.

If someone bothered to learn ancient greek, read the entire bible in the greek before it was ever translated to anything else, (like a certain relative of mine) I believe they would come to the conclusion that the christian bible never once states that humans will burn in hell for eternity, merely that they will be thrown into a "lake of fire" and burn. Nothing about it being eternal. That is reserved for satan and his angels. If it says that in the modern versions which i'm not sure of, it's a mistranslation. So you are either lying to us, or you have been lied to and believed it. The christian bible also states "by their works ye shall know them" Well, lying and attempting to misstate the bible to scare us. I don't think that is the work of a true christian. See you and/or whoever filled you with that bullshit in hell.

Of course I don't believe in god anyways. Guess I won't get to watch you burn. Dammit.

"For I know the plans I have for you,says the Lord plans to prosper yyou and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future,then you will call upon me and come and pray to me and i will listen to you, i will be found by you declares the Lord, AND WILL BRING YOU BACK FROM CAPTIVITY.I will gather you from the nations.--Jeremiah 29:11-14

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Originally posted by VeneFrigus:
Conquer Rhodesia.

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FAITH<--thats a biggy. Also, if you were to feel God the way I have, you would have no doubt in your mind that He is God. Jesus is so so so powerful. He can even break the bondages off of your life. Jesus Christ has such an awesome plan for you. You just have to accept it and quit being cold-hearted. Jesus loves you so much. And I know alot of people say "well if jesus loved us then He wouldnt send us to hell" but the truth is, you send yourself to hell. sin cannot enter heaven, God gave us a free will to take the narrow road or the wide road, you have to crucify your flesh daily and sacrifice worldly and ungoddly things to God but it will be SO SO worth it in the end!! Please trust me. I'll pray for you. if you want to email me back about it (please do) my email address is abbie_scott77@hotmail.com Have an awesome day!!

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
How can you know its god youre believing?

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"Faith"
I have faith that, if I believed in God, my God could beat the shit out of your God.

Give us reason, other than your worthless word, that we should believe in your God over any others.
If you can do it without saying "because the Bible says..." or "In the Bible..." you win a cookie.

How can jesus break the bondage of my life? I feel free i have no religous constraints maby YOUR RELIGION is trying to put the ones with free minds in bondage.

Didn't Jesus die for all our sins?

Our sins have already been paid for. So we can enter heaven, because we have no sin. We can do whatever the fuck we want and still enter heaven.

But then I don't belive in God so...

I still want to know how you know its jesus youre believing in and trusting. If i were Satan, the first thing Id do, since Im Prince of the Earth and all, would be to rewrite holy books and such so that it is made to look like I am god, and my adversary the bad one.

This, my friends, is an example of a rabid christian idiot. Notice that it does not understand the words it is saying, but simply repeats what it is told. It does not listen to rational argument, but simply repeats what it previously said in a louder voice, as if all opposition were ridiculous. It blindly ignores the errors and innacuracies of it's beliefs, preferring to believe in a lie that it likes to a truth that means admitting error. This is the type of person that many athiests try to portray all christians as, because this one is OBVIOUSLY a decieved idiot.

[This message has been edited by confuzious (edited 10-16-2002).]

is there a cure, doc?

"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today."

-Isaac Asimov

What would jesus Do when he comes back to save the world.

He would do it one step at a time, with tolerence, peace, harmony, and a focused determination to change the world in the best possible way based on his personal knowledge and expierences.

answer this:
Why is 'Lord' in all caps.

Hypothetically speeking wouldnt it be amusing if that lord came down and took everyone who wasnt a mindless religous drone to 'heaven' instead?

And anyway dont christians have a lot of assumptions on the way there god thinks isnt that some sort of blasphmey or something.

Shit there always saying that they're doing 'gods' work but in order to do that you would have to comprehend something thats incomprehensable. Ah so much bullshit.

Is it there god or is it the peopel who say that they speak for god. You know, the priests and ministers and popes and cardinals who determine what be the dogma for the xtian religion. Why is it that people are willing to follow demeaning and derogatory instructions which only enchance and further propagate the problems of intolerence and ignorance.

Why do they preach hypocricy like it is an act of saintliness, why is bigotry placed on a pedestal like the holy grail, why is the act of understanding being buried in long winded drivel every sunday morning.

Why is the act of actually thinking for ones self being rejected as communal and group thinking becomes forefront, Why are the there so much corruption with Xtianity and its derivitive organized branches?

These questions have answers, many are allready well known, others are being hidden. Its a new age and xtianity won't go away, but it will change for the better or for the worse, i hope for the better.

quote:

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
I still want to know how you know its jesus youre believing in and trusting. If i were Satan, the first thing Id do, since Im Prince of the Earth and all, would be to rewrite holy books and such so that it is made to look like I am god, and my adversary the bad one.

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Good point! Mix a little truth with some error, so some of it sounds plausible enough that the sheep will accept the rest.

Doesnt that mean that all religion could have been created by the devil?

Hey Jesusfreak,

I'm curious .. what do you think about all the other Gods people believe in ? Are thoose falsities or just perversion ? And take into consideration the Gods word your reading is an interprataion from an origirnal making it just as valid as any other interpratation. So then are all thoose "misguided" souls that are loving and worshiping who they beleive to be the one true god doomed to hell b/c the claim one differnt then yours ?

Dear Jesusfreak

I take the liberty of assuming that you have a brain, and can think for yourself, as well as read, even if you do have to use a finger on the page ...

Considering your deep knowledge of matters pertaining to religion, could you enlighten us less educated and blessed persons on a few little matters (At least to start with)?

- Please elucidate how Yahweh, the lesser god in the semitic pantheon charged with matters of war, mutated into God allmighty etc etc
- Please explain how it is possible that you, as a Christian, having been explicitly instructed by Yahweh that there is only one god ( Ref Ten Commandments) worhip three (Pappa, sonny and the Holy spook)?
- Explain to me whom it was that the son of Adam and Eve married?
- Etc Etc

In the 21st century it is unbelievable that anyone is still running around with this kind of unsubstantiated, unfounded propaganda, and still daring to do it in public. If you read the bible that you profess to use to guide your life, you will find a quotation " Blessed is he he prays on a street corner, and thrice blessed is he who prays in his home" Please go and spout your drivel in the privacy of your home

No. This is the religion forum. Shut up.

quote:

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Originally posted by thehellion:
Doesnt that mean that all religion could have been created by the devil?

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Hellion, for the sake of this discussion let's assume the devil is a real entity, an angel, a being created by an almighty, all knowing, omniscient, omnipresent etc, etc. The Almighty knew before the devil was created what was going to go down, right?

Hence religion could be both a construct of the Almighty and the devil, after all is logic not as accurate as math.

1 + 1 = 2 -- God + devil = religion?

However I have much difficulty understanding the christian(RomanCatholic/ProtestantFundamentalist)concept of the 'devil'. Reading the Roman Catholic/Protestant version of holy scripture shows that an 'angel of death' was in common employ by 'God'. Logic decrees that the creature is the creation of the creator, the creator being all powerful etc, it follows that the 'christian' concept of the devil seems to require a god that is either a being similar to the gnostic 'demiurge', or the unmoved mover of Aristotle.

Life as we know it may be the inevitable consequence of the all-mighty math theorom utilised by the creator to project the universe, and upon which the creation hangs in perilous balance - torn between negative and positive.

Zero equals infinity, the yin and yang of existence, pure math may be the lynchpin of existence. How does one make something from nothing? In math - zero is nothing and yet from this nothing we can create -1 & +1, -2 & +2 on to -infinity & +infinity. Is there room in math for aberrations? Is this world, this dimension, so finely balanced in a physics/scientific sense - between positive and negative infinities, that these are the only conditions that life - such as we experience - is possible?

Rambling on there so back to topic, i've been hearing about Jesus coming back for near on forty years and it's always with the same fervency and immediacy as yours. To you - JesusFreak77, I say now is the day, now is the time, today is the hour of your life, live it in the here and the now, for Jesus will come when He comes, as death will come when death comes, in the meanwhile let's live and let live.

I would like to know more about the Demi-Urge.

quote:

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
I would like to know more about the Demi-Urge.

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The demiurge was a term the gnostics used for the blind god they identified as the god of the old testament. The gnostics were apparently a 'christian' sect mainly of the Essenes - the folk healers of ancient times. Gnostics believed we are saved by knowledge, 'gnosis', knowing, having the true information, saves one in the here and now rather than at some promised time in the future. Some believe Yahshua(Jesus) was a member of this group, that he learned the gnosis and applied it to the healing of afflicted persons. However to a gnostic this was not miraculous or such, simply the logical outcome of applying the right knowledge. Check out the Gnosica Ecclesia website.

Anyways it seems the gnostics copped some pretty heavy persecution from the Roman Catholic Church in the fourth century. Condemned as heretics, they were matyred into extinction, and their writings destroyed, lost. That is until a farmer plowing a field investigated an object buried therein to discover pottery containing scrolls.

The Nag Hammadi, scrolls that apparently continue from where the dead sea scrolls leave off, written by the same people, the Essenes, the sect known as gnostics. The Nag Hammadi scriptures tell a very different story of the old testament god, no wonder the Rc's burned them! Totally different, in the gnostic thought the god of the old testament is no more than a powerful created being, an archon, higher than an archangel or a cherubim, the archon was known as the demiurge by the gnostics who saw this god as an ignorant 'blind' god. This god thought of itself as the original, the only, the singular divinity, when truth to the gnostic was that this god was no more than a tool of creation. This god was the god that walked in the Garden of Eden, an allegorical story of the emergence of consciousness and self-awareness. The demiurge is often called Yaldabaoth, and to the gnostics it was this god that ruled the hebrews, it was Yaldabaoth that gave the laws, again allegorical for the process of development in human thinking that gives precedence to the rule of law over reason.

The gnostics also have a very different view of Yashua, Jesus is not presented as the wandering miracle worker of the Roman Catholic bible, he is presented as the manifestation of divine reason. The reports of miracles are no more than ignorant minds attempting to explain the acts of a master, and Yaldabaoth the blind demiurge was confounded by Yahshua's reasoning, and incited the angel of death to kill him. Allegorical for the attack of the minds of those like the fundies and the RC's who are so bound by their dogmas and laws that they would kill those who seek to understand thru reason what may be known of life, our purpose and being: Who am I? Why am I here? Where do I go from here?

A word to the wise, I am not a gnostic, although I see much value in their thought, however some time ago my profession required the investigation of sudden deaths. The last grim moments of the elderley, the tragedy and horror of motor vehicle deaths, and the despair of suicide. The suicide of a sixteen year old, crystalised my thoughts, the fine looking son of the commander of a prison riot squad, a fundamentalist christian. This lad was a Queens Scout, he suicided by making a perfect hangmans noose and hanging off a hook on the outside of their house while mum and dad were at church. The utter devestation of that father was the greatest tragedy to behold, his fundamentalist faith would have sent his son straight to hell, he was disconsolate, bereft of any comfort, and quite difficult to interview.

Since, I have researched as many religions as possible, as content for a training manual for emergency service personnel. The manual is intended to facilitate the role of the investigator thru understanding the mindset of often distraught family members, as a means of obtaining the information necessary to discover the cause of death, satisfy any suspicions of foul play etc. So I have read a lot of stuff to do with religion, some of it inspiring, some downright ignorant, in the meanwhile I have discovered the spiritual life of mankind cannot be defined within the narrow confines of theology. Theology attempts to blindside people into accepting contradictions as a means of justifying a theological theorem about who or what god is. The gnostics, and later philosophers and scientists, reason that Yaldabaoth, the demiurge - is the god of old testament times, an interesting alternative?

Jesusfreak, here're some favorite biblical verses of mine. You should check them out:

Lev 26:22: "I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children."

Mark 16: 17-18

�And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues. They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.�

Deuteronomy 28:53 - "And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee."

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 - "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son.... bring him unto the elders of his city.... And all the men of the city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you..."

Revelations 14:03: "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.�

Luke 14:26 - "14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Mathew 10:34-36 - "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."

We've played this game before, and its stupid and just makes level-headed skeptics of the Bible look stupid, because these are obvious cheap-shots pasted way out of context, probably fifth or sixth hand from the original guy who compiled them.

This thread was great!
I think I'm converting from Solipsism to Gnosis.

Gotta finish reading up though. It's so compelling.

Why don't you just make up your own god like everyone else?

I'll meet everyone at the tree house, bring your action figure idols, and I'll bring a magnifying glass and some firecrackers.

damn, there are some long-assed postings on this thread...


Jesus might have been around once, and might have even been a really amazing guy (or he had one helluva P.R. Guy), but come on, 'Lord of the Earth'. Why the hell would he, supposing all this ridiculous stuff could be true (please, I know...), want to come back? Who would he come back for?

Religious people are sooooo silly.

I was at work yesterday, inqiring to religious co-workers about their beliefs. They are silly. Judeo-Christians really are all about faith, but can't answer of substance. All I did was ask why their God let his greatest arch-angel become an evil devil, and that shups them right up ('God" being omnipotent and all-good and all...)

quote:

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
We've played this game before, and its stupid and just makes level-headed skeptics of the Bible look stupid, because these are obvious cheap-shots pasted way out of context, probably fifth or sixth hand from the original guy who compiled them.

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I compiled these myself. Shall I post some context? Is the chapter enough, or would you like the whole book? Because you're right, the part where it says to eat your children, I left out the previous verse, which says "Don't:"

It's good to see at least one beliver around here other than me, i just dont have the balls to post that.

-ShadowFist

quote:

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Originally posted by Nox:
We finally agree...Seeya!

Nox

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O!!! gosh that was so funnnyyy!!!
hilarious, not that i necessarily agree or disagree, just thought to let u know that was funny and thanx!
laughter is good medicine for the soul

quote:

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Originally posted by RedBananaMonkey:
All I did was ask why their God let his greatest arch-angel become an evil devil.

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God didn't immediately destroy Satan after Satan turned bad because when God created all living things he gave them all a free will. Say God just destroyed Satan in one fell swoop. That would only serve to make us fear him. We would only worship him because we feared him. God doesn't want that, he wants us to worship him because we love him. Satan and all the "evil" people in this world will be dealt with at the end of time.
All you have to do to be saved is just to believe that Jesus died for you to save you. It's just that simple, accept him as your saviour. Now I know people are gonna be smart asses and say "well if we believe jesus died for us and then we are saved so why cant we just go on sinning?" If you truely believe Jesus has saved you then you would believe the Bible and walk in the way of Christ.

God knew that sin was going to happen, so he already had a plan that was set in motion a long time ago. And one of the most important events of the plan was the first coming of Jesus down to Earth. And why would Jesus want to come back? The first time that Jesus walked the Earth he died for all our sins. The second time he comes back he won't need to die anymore. The victory against sin will be complete.

And as for you JesusFreak77, with a handle like that you are just giving us christians a bad name. Go get yourself a decent handle. Though your enthusiasm is good to see if I wasn't a Christian I would have passed off your original post as some fool's babble which I'm sure most of you guys have.

And you Nox, in your first post in this thread you poked holes in JesusFreak's post, but at the same time you were being just stupid. I'm pretty sure you knew damn well that the bible was written a long time ago and that Kings were the rulers then. Amusing but stupid.

Any feedback and questions will be greatly welcomed. I cannot profess to be very knowledgable but I'll try to answer your questions. God loves doubters.

Actually, if you have already decided to not accept Jesus as your saviour then forget about it. I nor any of my fellow Chrisitans can force you to do anything. I'll continue to pray for you all that one day you will realise what you are missing out on.

Man, there's a definite shortage of intelligent Christianity defenders / apologists in all these forums. I knew one teacher at high school who knew so much about Christianity that even the smartest atheists in the class got their asses kicked in debates with him. It even compelled me as skeptical agnostic to think deep and hard about Christianity, and hey, believe its message somewhat. But ultimately, as will always be the case, when the Atheist and the Christian clash in a grey area of a discussion, the final bit of rhetoric from both will be "Eternity is a long time" followed by a "whatever" or "uh-huh, yeah, roast it up in hades". I guess that's just the way it is ...

It's people like you that come in here and just say that a certain group of posters are dumb that really fucking annoys me. I may not be knowledgable(as confessed in my previous post) but at least I'm trying. I don't see your fucking smartass teacher here now do I? So what if he can win a few debates? And please back up your "there's a definite shortage of intelligent Christianity defenders/apologists in all these forums" with some God damn evidence first.

You all know my choice of faith. Let it never be said that I support a crusade in this forum just because it comes from someone who follows my same faith. I never have, nor will I ever. Just wanted to make that crystal.

Easy now, Landed. I didn't say anyone was dumb that posted in these threads, I was just making the point that there seems to be more offense than defense in the religion posts, more specifically the ones dealing with Christianity. We need someone like the dude at STR.org who can argue to compel others to question their world view or show people that Christianity is not total bullshit.

Heh I usually don't get pissed off, but I know what you're trying to say.

EDIT: By the way, it's good to see a fellow kiwi. Where in NZ are you at bro?

[This message has been edited by just.landed (edited 10-25-2002).]

quote:

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Originally posted by Lazy Bastard:
Didn't Jesus die for all our sins?

Our sins have already been paid for. So we can enter heaven, because we have no sin. We can do whatever the fuck we want and still enter heaven.

But then I don't belive in God so...

---

not really you still have to repent for your sins or tou will go to pergatory

Jesus Freak 77 I have something for you: JESUS LOVES YOU EVERYONE ELSE HATES YOU

quote:

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Originally posted by punkrawkerstonershit:
Jesus Freak 77 I have something for you: JESUS LOVES YOU EVERYONE ELSE HATES YOU

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Assuming that Jesus Freak read this, you have just verbally fulfilled prophecy (think about that).

Nox

"Jesus will return?

Dont worry, I'm sure we can nail him up again."

I don't think it would be fair of such an all forgiving god to condemn me to a fiery pit of eternal darkness just because of my beliefs. And if that isnt what he wants for me, as you say, then why doesnt he change it? He's supposedly all powerful, after all..

As for Jesus loving me? Meh. I might have loved him too, if people hadn't told me all my life that I had to else I'll go to hell. I don't mean to crap over anyone elses beliefs, but organised religion, to me, seems like just another way to keep the people in line. I'm sure that christianity started with good ideals but it's been bastardised too much over the years to suit the needs of whoever was in control. Weren't parts of the bible rewritten in the 18th century for the sake of the Crusades?

Christianity seems to work on the same level as chain letters do. "Do what we say or you'll have bad luck" as opposed to "Do what we say or you'll burn in hell".

The bible is a mess of contradictions and even claiming that they are the fault of bad translation doesnt make it any better. Bibles aren't the word of any God, they are from an objective point of view.

Maybe it's just me, but I couldn't put all any faith into a collection of notes from three random people.

Dear Jesusfreak
"Jesus died for his own sins, not mine"
-Crass

Thank you jesusfreak77, i needed a good laugh.

Religious people make me laugh. LOL

quote:

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Originally posted by JesusFreak77:
Hey guys, I just wanted to remind you that.....JESUS LOVES YOU!!!

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"Jesus" wasn't even the man's name to whom you claim to be referring. Furthermore, some 2000 year old supposedly vanished corpse can't possibly hold any emotions for me.

quote:

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He has such an awesome plan.

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Too bad no one on the planet followed his plan for more than the lifespan of his 12 remaining disciples. Too bad you haven't a clue what his plan was or whether it was awesome or not, or even whether it involved you...all you have is a burning desire to WANT to believe something greater than you is out there, loving you, helping you, keeping you safe from the things you can't face, the things you don't know, and the death you can't avoid.

quote:

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It's so sad to see that the devil has you wrapped around his finger. God is the King of all Kings. One day, Ever knee shall bow and every tounge shall confess that Jesus is King!!

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Only if the Christian church succeeds completely as they tried to do in the Inquisition and kills all "heretics" leaving only the tongues of the imprinted flock to wave in a stereophonic echoe of their doctrine for eachother to hear as reinforcement that they are correct...because EVERYONE beleives it.

The Devil is a myth, perpetrated by the church to use fear as a sheep dog to herd the flock to it's banner. Don't spout your drivel to me and expect it to make any sort of impact other than annoyance at yet another pathetic revivalist fresh out of sunday school parroting their pastor's rhetoric in the vain hopes that you can convert the "wicked" to your "faith".

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I can't wait for that day to come. Jesus has such a strong love for His people. He gave you a free will so that you could choose him willingly, or you could choose the world and listen to satan's selfish and stupid lies. God doesn't want you to go to Hell. God made Hell for Satan and his angels. He never meant for his own people to have to suffer in hell. Please believe me. Jesus Christ is on his way back to get his people. Hell is just a massive pit of hate, sin, pain, a non-consuming fire that you will feel buring your flesh for eternity, and you will remember everytime that you could have chosen God but you listened to Satan instead and it will drive you insane. Or you could just believe God's word and ask him for forgivness and live eternity with God in heaven, where we'll worship the Holy One forever and live in a place with golden streets and gates of pearls!! I cant wait!! Well Jesus loves you and I'm going to continue to pray that God will strengthen you're hearts and come to know you and that you will not believe Satans lies any longer. Seeya!!

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Plain and simple, All the gold and pearls in heave is not enough to buy my eternal kneeling and ass-kissing to your god, nor is the threat of all the pain and suffering of hell enough to scare me into following your god in this life. I've seen death, been dead, seen hell and heaven...and none of it is what you or your religion claims...

I'm glad you are so concerned for my eternal welfare, but your concern is misplaced...I have more than words in a book or from someone's mouth to prove to me I'm right....I don't need faith, faith is a poor substitute for experiential knowledge. Remember this: Faith can move mountains, but so can camera trick on TV...Your religion is a snake oil, a collecion of parlor tricks bound into ritualism. Why would worship of a loving god include symbolic cannibalism, idolization of death, the dead, and symbols of torture, self-deprecation, guilt, fear, pain, and self-denial?

I know God, and your "Jesus" isn't it.
Sleep well, because when you close your eyes for good, you're going to be quite surprised.

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
I still want to know how you know its jesus youre believing in and trusting. If i were Satan, the first thing Id do, since Im Prince of the Earth and all, would be to rewrite holy books and such so that it is made to look like I am god, and my adversary the bad one.

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That's so exactly right, Spirit...I commend you for stating the obvious that most people miss....

yea keep believing in god intilu do something bad and wind up going to hell any way so worship the devil so when u go to hell u live in the punk paradice

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Originally posted by just.landed:
And you Nox, in your first post in this thread you poked holes in JesusFreak's post, but at the same time you were being just stupid. I'm pretty sure you knew damn well that the bible was written a long time ago and that Kings were the rulers then. Amusing but stupid.

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I was just perusing this topic and came across this, I missed it before.

I am aware of the political structure extant at the time of Christ. I think the point you missed in my post was that the Jesusfreak was trying to convince people today that Jesus was king of kings. While this may have meant something in antiquity (and to a few places currently) the meaning today is insignificant at best...hence my comment about the 'President'. Your thought process was too esoteric which is why you made the stupid comment and in that context I agree. However, I was far more 'earthy' in my response and unfortunately, it still went over the 'freaks' head.

I am glad you enjoyed the humor.

Nox

Hi everyone. Sorry I havent replied to your messages for a while. First of all, I'm am a 15 year old girl who can't even understand half of the words your saying. Haha. Dont use big words please. Now that I've told you that I'm only 15 your probably going to tell me that I'm young and have a lot to learn. And your right, I do have a lot to learn, but dont we all! haha. There was someone that asked me how I knew that my God was the real and true one. I go to a church camp with my youth group every summer...if any of you went there, just once, I can guarantee that you would think differently of how you think now and you would come home changed. God's presence is there! And it is so strong. Being in God's presence is the best feeling in the world. He just sets your heart on fire and your totally consumes by Him. So by feeling his presence makes me believe and love Him more every time. Another thing that makes me know He is the King of ALL Kings is that I have faith. And when I call out for Him, He's there. And when I need comfort, I can always count on Him. He's just so awesome. Right after I post this reply I can guarantee that every one of you that reads it will have something bad to say about it, and if you do, then thats ok. But please just for 3 minutes, understand where I'm coming from and try not to criticize every thing I say. God is so awesome. And one day, believe it or not, you will bow down to Him and confess that He is Lord over all the earth, that He is King. Get ready for what is going to happen in our world. God is coming very soon, and yes I know they have been saying that for "thousands of years" but it is so true now. God is coming. You will regret so so so so much not being ready for His return. God has an awesome plan for your life. You were put on this planet for a reason. Satan has a plan for your life as well, to keep you from Jesus and to keep others from Jesus. You are making Satan so happy right now with what you are doing. Do you really want to make Satan happy?? I know I dont. Just get ready for God's return. God is so awesome. Please believe me. And you may think "I have no reason on earth to believe a little 25 year old" but you do. God is awesome. And someone also said that all I do is repeat what I say or something like that and just say whatever I hear others say. I didnt really understand what you meant. So please explain. Well I guess I'll be going now! Seeya later! Jesus LOVES YOU!!! (think about that and dont just let it be words)
-abbie-

Reverend abbie!

Thanks for the sermon!

But any Deity that demands worship is unworthy of it!

FoxLeonard

I'm an atheist, but according to my friend who read the bible it actually says you don't have to worship God but just follow his teachings and you'll get into heaven.

I cant wait till the real messiah (AKA: NOT JESUS) or something to come along to kick your ass.

go fuck your self you reilgious sheep. you make me sick. how can you belive in something so blindly that was written by a bunch of dead white guys

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Originally posted by jtoastercamp:
go fuck your self you reilgious sheep. you make me sick. how can you belive in something so blindly that was written by a bunch of dead white guys

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At the time of writing they were still alive, according to most sources...

FoxLeonard

Jesusfreak, wow man you really set yourself up for a really long battle. I think its pretty cool what you are trying to do, but people usually respond better when you don't come out and tell them that they are wrong. Like the "you are twisted around satans finger" thing. I understand, but maybe you should get them on your side before you insult them. Keep fighting.

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How can you know its god youre believing?

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How do you know it's not?

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If I am dead, and my soul is in hell, where does this flesh come from?

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After the last day your body will be resurrected from the dead.

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If someone bothered to learn ancient greek, read the entire bible in the greek before it was ever translated to anything else, (like a certain relative of mine) I believe they would come to the conclusion that the christian bible never once states that humans will burn in hell for eternity, merely that they will be thrown into a "lake of fire" and burn. Nothing about it being eternal. That is reserved for satan and his angels.

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But then again, it doesn't say it isn't eternal, either.

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How can jesus break the bondage of my life? I feel free i have no religous constraints maby YOUR RELIGION is trying to put the ones with free minds in bondage.

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When you're tempted to do something that is wrong, do you have the strength to resist it or does it control you? The power to resist is the strength that the Christian has.

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Our sins have already been paid for. So we can enter heaven, because we have no sin. We can do whatever the fuck we want and still enter heaven.

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I don't recall God ever saying that. Original sin has been paid for, but we only receive forgiveness for that sin if we are baptised (with the conditions for baptism, of course). When it comes to personal sin (ie, something we do ourselves) we still need to ask God for forgiveness if we wish to enter heaven.

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I still want to know how you know its jesus youre believing in and trusting. If i were Satan, the first thing Id do, since Im Prince of the Earth and all, would be to rewrite holy books and such so that it is made to look like I am god, and my adversary the bad one.

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He does that already. Why do you think there are so many religions?

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answer this:
Why is 'Lord' in all caps.

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I'm pretty sure it's to distinguish between the LORD (God the Father) from the Lord (Jesus, God the Son).

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Shit there always saying that they're doing 'gods' work but in order to do that you would have to comprehend something thats incomprehensable. Ah so much bullshit.

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I also find the concept that life somehow made itself when it didn't exist incomprehensible. That God made it is more reasonable.

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Why is it that people are willing to follow demeaning and derogatory instructions which only enchance and further propagate the problems of intolerence and ignorance.
Why do they preach hypocricy like it is an act of saintliness, why is bigotry placed on a pedestal like the holy grail, why is the act of understanding being buried in long winded drivel every sunday morning.

Why is the act of actually thinking for ones self being rejected as communal and group thinking becomes forefront, Why are the there so much corruption with Xtianity and its derivitive organized branches?

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Are you saying that you are intolerant of my view? Or are you just jumping on the bandwagon of modern thought (another example of communal thinking).
People aren't perfect, you won't find anything without some form of corruption in it.

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Doesnt that mean that all religion could have been created by the devil?

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The way I see it is, God would have made the true religion, and the devil the rest.

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I'm curious .. what do you think about all the other Gods people believe in ? Are thoose falsities or just perversion ? And take into consideration the Gods word your reading is an interprataion from an origirnal making it just as valid as any other interpratation. So then are all thoose "misguided" souls that are loving and worshiping who they beleive to be the one true god doomed to hell b/c the claim one differnt then yours ?

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There is only one God....all others are false. The first commandment of God is 'I am the Lord your God, thou shalt not have false gods before me'.
They aren't necessarily doomed to hell, no-one can make that judgement except God. But they would be making the chances of their going to hell greater by worshipping false gods.

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- Please elucidate how Yahweh, the lesser god in the semitic pantheon charged with matters of war, mutated into God allmighty etc etc

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Lesser God? There is only one God. God is God, no more, no less. He has always been almighty, and all three persons of the Trinity are equal.

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- Please explain how it is possible that you, as a Christian, having been explicitly instructed by Yahweh that there is only one god ( Ref Ten Commandments) worhip three (Pappa, sonny and the Holy spook)?

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There are three persons in one God: The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit. One God, three Persons. Person \= God.

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- Explain to me whom it was that the son of Adam and Eve married?

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One of their daughters.

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If you read the bible that you profess to use to guide your life, you will find a quotation " Blessed is he he prays on a street corner, and thrice blessed is he who prays in his home"

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I couldn't find that in the Bible, could you please give me the reference.
But I do know the Bible says: "Go ye into the whole world and preach the gospel to every creature" (Mk 16:15).

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However I have much difficulty understanding the christian(RomanCatholic/ProtestantFundamentalist)concept of the 'devil'. Reading the Roman Catholic/Protestant version of holy scripture shows that an 'angel of death' was in common employ by 'God'. Logic decrees that the creature is the creation of the creator, the creator being all powerful etc, it follows that the 'christian' concept of the devil seems to require a god that is either a being similar to the gnostic 'demiurge', or the unmoved mover of Aristotle.

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You're right about the creature being the creation of the Creator, but I don't see how a great creature would reduce God's all-powerful nature.

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How does one make something from nothing?

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But then there's the alternative: How does nothing make something from nothing?

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Theology attempts to blindside people into accepting contradictions as a means of justifying a theological theorem about who or what god is. The gnostics, and later philosophers and scientists, reason that Yaldabaoth, the demiurge - is the god of old testament times, an interesting alternative?

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Are you saying that there can never be an exception to the rule?

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Why don't you just make up your own god like everyone else?

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Because I want to know the truth, not just have my own idea of truth.

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Why the hell would he, supposing all this ridiculous stuff could be true (please, I know...), want to come back? Who would he come back for?

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Because He loves us, and He would come back for His faithful.

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All I did was ask why their God let his greatest arch-angel become an evil devil, and that shups them right up ('God" being omnipotent and all-good and all...)

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Well, God didn't have the intention of making robots, He made angels and people with free will, which means He allows them to make their own choice. The devil and all the angels who followed him knew exactly what they were doing and knew that they would be punished, which makes you wonder why they rebelled in the first place.

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I don't think it would be fair of such an all forgiving god to condemn me to a fiery pit of eternal darkness just because of my beliefs. And if that isnt what he wants for me, as you say, then why doesnt he change it? He's supposedly all powerful, after all..

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Because He has given you the choice to accept Him or reject Him.
And how do you feel when somebody does something wrong against you?

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Weren't parts of the bible rewritten in the 18th century for the sake of the Crusades?

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Hmm, no, I don't think so, or at least the official Bible wasn't.

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Christianity seems to work on the same level as chain letters do. "Do what we say or you'll have bad luck" as opposed to "Do what we say or you'll burn in hell".

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Basically that's true, but that's only because if you're not listening to God, you're listening to the Devil.

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The bible is a mess of contradictions and even claiming that they are the fault of bad translation doesnt make it any better. Bibles aren't the word of any God, they are from an objective point of view.

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An objective point of view is one that has no bias and that is seen to be true....

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"Jesus" wasn't even the man's name to whom you claim to be referring.

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How do you know that?

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Too bad no one on the planet followed his plan for more than the lifespan of his 12 remaining disciples. Too bad you haven't a clue what his plan was or whether it was awesome or not, or even whether it involved you...all you have is a burning desire to WANT to believe something greater than you is out there, loving you, helping you, keeping you safe from the things you can't face, the things you don't know, and the death you can't avoid.

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Again, how do you know?

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The Devil is a myth, perpetrated by the church to use fear as a sheep dog to herd the flock to it's banner.

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All I will say is that the biggest lie the Devil ever told is that he doesn't exist.

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nor is the threat of all the pain and suffering of hell enough to scare me into following your god in this life.

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Don't blame anyone except yourself when you get there, then.

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I'm glad you are so concerned for my eternal welfare, but your concern is misplaced...I have more than words in a book or from someone's mouth to prove to me I'm right....I don't need faith, faith is a poor substitute for experiential knowledge. Remember this: Faith can move mountains, but so can camera trick on TV...

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But does the camera really move the mountain?
Everyone has faith in something.

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Your religion is a snake oil, a collecion of parlor tricks bound into ritualism. Why would worship of a loving god include symbolic cannibalism, idolization of death, the dead, and symbols of torture, self-deprecation, guilt, fear, pain, and self-denial?

---

Symbolic cannibalism? idolization of death? symbols of torture? Where is this in Christianity?
And what's so bad about feeling guilt and practicing self-denial? Pain is inevitable, and so is fear to some extent.

[QUOTE]I'm an atheist, but according to my friend who read the bible it actually says you don't have to worship God but just follow his teachings and you'll get into heaven.[.QUOTE]
Part of His teachings is that only He is worthy of worship, bascially what that means is that you have to put God before anything else.

If you guys have any more questions, I'll try my best to answer them.

===Symbolic cannibalism? idolization of death? symbols of torture? Where is this in Christianity?===

Symbolic cannibalism : the communion? (the body of Christ)

Idolization of Death : Jesus hanging from his cross?

Symbols of torture: see above. Worshipping a man who was flogged, adorned with a crown of thorns, then [I/]NAILED[/I] to a friggin' cross, before being stabbed in the side to make sure he's dead?

I was born and raised Catholic. I spent the first 18 years of my life going to a catholic school, I was baptized, I did my first and my holy communion. I know the teachings of god, and the words of Jesus.

I consider myself to be nothing. I'm not atheist, for I can't disprove there is a God. I'm not religious, because I can't prove he exists either. I don't follow any other religion for a very simple reason... IF there is a god, I don't want to anger him by worshipping a false god.

Instead, I follow my own 'religion', if you could call it that. I try to be a good person, treating others as I would want to be treated myself. And if there is an afterlife after this miserable pathetic existence I now endure, then any diety will gladly accept me, for I have done no wrong... except maybe not go to church on Sunday/Saturday/Whenever. And if this diety rejects me because of this, then he's not a kind, forgiving father figure, yet a viciously vindictive bastard who doesn't deserve worship in the first place.

As to religious people... I respect the strength of your convictions, and I hope you are right. I won't try to convince you of my right... so please don't attempt to do the same with me. I respect your chopices, so all I request is that you respect mine, and we will get along just fine.

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Originally posted by margeri26:
When you're tempted to do something that is wrong, do you have the strength to resist it or does it control you? The power to resist is the strength that the Christian has.

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It is also the strength that a morally independent human being has.

From what I've seen, there are more ethical Christians than fucked-up ones, and there are worse ways to instil moral values than Christianity.
However, in the interests of objectivity and rational logic, I am, in principle, against most if not all current mainstream religious followings (along with many societal statuses quo that exist today) because they don't encourage objective reasoning on an individual basis.

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Originally posted by ChaosWyrm:
I know God, and your "Jesus" isn't it.
Sleep well, because when you close your eyes for good, you're going to be quite surprised.

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Wanna bet?
To prove it, die for us, come back to life and tell us if God and/or hell really exist.

No, I am serious.

If you can do this, it will save us all the time and enegry to threorioze about everything.

Because I am sick of the "what ifs" and the "mabye so"'s.

I am sick of being hurt.

I am sick of being lost and confuse.

I am sick of hurting myself.

I am sick of not being prepared either.

I am sick of losing my mind.

I am really sick of wanting to die.

And I AM VERY ILL about some BS cycle of chasing pleasure and having my life being decived, strangled, smuthered and overall being a lie to those I care about and being let down by those who are called 'my friends'.

I really don't care about how you guys think about Jesus, God, whatever he is called.

Quite frankly, He's about the only one I can fully trust.

And the only family I seem to truly have left these days.

So far, I haven't been let down.

I just know that this life is a joke to what is promised us all by Him.

And I know for a fact that the first time around, Jesus came down to check out the place.

The second time He comes, he going to evict all the tennets who didn't follow the rules.
And not just with a scrappy piece of paper either.

I rather belive in someone or something that knows me well and be prepared for it then be in pain for not being prepared for it at all.

I just sick of this broken world period.


[This message has been edited by FourUntoFive (edited 11-25-2002).]

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Symbolic cannibalism : the communion? (the body of Christ)

Idolization of Death : Jesus hanging from his cross?

Symbols of torture: see above. Worshipping a man who was flogged, adorned with a crown of thorns, then [I/]NAILED[/I] to a friggin' cross, before being stabbed in the side to make sure he's dead?

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If you knew your religion then you would know that Jesus died and then came back to life to destroy the power of death and allow humankind to enter heaven.

I don't see communion as cannibalism. There is nothing bloody about it.

The crucifix is to remind us that Jesus died for every one of us.

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IF there is a god, I don't want to anger him by worshipping a false god.

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If I were God, I would be more angry for no attempt to find out who the real god is!

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As to religious people... I respect the strength of your convictions, and I hope you are right. I won't try to convince you of my right... so please don't attempt to do the same with me. I respect your chopices, so all I request is that you respect mine, and we will get along just fine.

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Yeah, but someone's right, and someone's wrong, and how will we ever find out if we don't talk about it?

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However, in the interests of objectivity and rational logic, I am, in principle, against most if not all current mainstream religious followings (along with many societal statuses quo that exist today) because they don't encourage objective reasoning on an individual basis.

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Yeah, but why would you bother to ask someone else to start from scratch to find an answer if it's already been found by several people and all are in agreement?

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Originally posted by margeri26:
Yeah, but why would you bother to ask someone else to start from scratch to find an answer if it's already been found by several people and all are in agreement?

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Because a consensus does not equal the truth.
(insert references to 'flat earth' theory here)

On another note, if several people are all in agreement, then why does Christianity have so many divisions?

I get nothing from watching someone else starting from scratch, but the searcher does. Their faith will either be strengthened from discovering further truths, or challenged from discovering further truths which contradict that faith.

Do you believe that blind, indoctrinated faith means anything to your God? Free will is a trait possessed by humans, and therefore supposedly provided by God. Doesn't faith only mean something as a choice you make?

Personally, I believe that any person, who intends to hold any religious convictions, should do as much research regarding religion as possible, and continually make educated decisions.
Those who are content to sit back and accept a superficial belief system with no regard for what it really implies, I find arrogant.

[This message has been edited by TigerJK (edited 11-28-2002).]

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If I were God, I would be more angry for no attempt to find out who the real god is!

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How bout' you just prove yourself and end this centuries old bullshit? people kill and die over what they "believe" is the right answer, but noone knows for sure.

We are expected to know though, even though there are literally thousands of religions in existence. For your God to then damn people to hell for being honestly mistaken and not knowing what the "real" religion was, despite being given no indication of what that may be makes your God the worst possible thing concievable. To go to hell over the equivalent of what is a full deck monte is the highest form of injustice concievable.

I want you to shuffle a deck of cards and then randomly draw a card from the deck. If you didn't get the suicide king, you go to hell. Simple as that.

Jesus hates you all.

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Originally posted by enterprise1701_d:
===Symbolic cannibalism? idolization of death? symbols of torture? Where is this in Christianity?===

Symbolic cannibalism : the communion? (the body of Christ)

Idolization of Death : Jesus hanging from his cross?

Symbols of torture: see above. Worshipping a man who was flogged, adorned with a crown of thorns, then [I/]NAILED[/I] to a friggin' cross, before being stabbed in the side to make sure he's dead?

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Correct

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"Jesus" wasn't even the man's name to whom you claim to be referring.
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How do you know that?

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Historical facts, the translation of the name of the saviour attributed as the "Christ" is more closely translated as Yeshua, or if you must use a "Modern" name, it's more Joshua than Jesus. At least according to the original writings submitted to the infant church and agreed upon at the subsequent Ecumenical councils.

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Too bad no one on the planet followed his plan for more than the lifespan of his 12 remaining disciples. Too bad you haven't a clue what his plan was or whether it was awesome or not, or even whether it involved you...all you have is a burning desire to WANT to believe something greater than you is out there, loving you, helping you, keeping you safe from the things you can't face, the things you don't know, and the death you can't avoid.
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Again, how do you know?

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Again, historical facts of the spread of historically verifiable individuals and doctrines, Christ's teachings were of an apostolic faith that shunned the very idea of a "temple" or "church"...If you don't know what "apostolic" truly means, I suggest you look it up for yourself.

As for knowing that you have no clue...the fact that you didn't know the things I told you or even grasp how I could know them proves to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that you don't even know the Saviour you claim to follow...You believe in a doctrine...Christ isn't a doctrine.

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The Devil is a myth, perpetrated by the church to use fear as a sheep dog to herd the flock to it's banner.
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All I will say is that the biggest lie the Devil ever told is that he doesn't exist.

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Yes, I saw The Usual Suspects too, good movie, but colloquialisms aside, I counter with this...the greatest lie the devil ever told was that he was without rather than within...or even that "he" was a "he"....

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nor is the threat of all the pain and suffering of hell enough to scare me into following your god in this life.
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Don't blame anyone except yourself when you get there, then.

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you mean IF....and I'm not overly concerned. Though if by some miracle I do wind up in your "hell" I will fully take responsibility for myself then as I do now...why would I blame you for my actions?...

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I'm glad you are so concerned for my eternal welfare, but your concern is misplaced...I have more than words in a book or from someone's mouth to prove to me I'm right....I don't need faith, faith is a poor substitute for experiential knowledge. Remember this: Faith can move mountains, but so can camera trick on TV...
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But does the camera really move the mountain?
Everyone has faith in something.

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Yes, you see it move, don't you? What a rediculous question.

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Your religion is a snake oil, a collecion of parlor tricks bound into ritualism. Why would worship of a loving god include symbolic cannibalism, idolization of death, the dead, and symbols of torture, self-deprecation, guilt, fear, pain, and self-denial?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Symbolic cannibalism? idolization of death? symbols of torture? Where is this in Christianity?
And what's so bad about feeling guilt and practicing self-denial? Pain is inevitable, and so is fear to some extent.

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See above for Symbolic Cannibalism, Death idolization and torture symbols...

As for guilt and self denial....
Guilt is an unneccesary and rediculous "feeling" that only comes from having the ability to do things you thing are "bad" or "wrong"...it is a by product of going against your nature, thus is unnatural and by extension must be a synthetic feeling. There is a big difference between guilt and regret...guilt is a killer of choice, regret is an educational tool in growth.
Self-denial is again unnatural and born of synthetic "moralities" which claim your nature to be "wrong" though the very same god they venerate created you thus...ironic, but true....

Pain and fear are not inevitable, only change and death are inevitable in life, and the two are very similar in truth.

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Originally posted by FourUntoFive:
Wanna bet?
To prove it, die for us, come back to life and tell us if God and/or hell really exist.

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I have died and came back, in this "life" once and I have lucid remembrance of other physical lives past before this birth. I'd be willing to take your bet that I'm wrong because I know I am not.

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No, I am serious.

If you can do this, it will save us all the time and enegry to threorioze about everything.

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I am serious too.

Yet has it saved us as you proclaimed? No, we yet discuss and debate, because it's hard for many to believe that what I say is true. Why is it so hard to believe that I could be the second coming of your Christ telling the world by the easiest medium how they have bastardized my teachings and trying to give you all one more final chance to repent your failures due to it not being your fault you were fooled by the institution of evil known as the Church?...If I tell you now that to not hear and beleive my words will surely condemn you to the hell of perpetual rebirth in this realm never to see the purety of God's truth, but live out an eternity of pain and suffering only to return here after death over and over again each time the shell you ride breaks under the strain...would you listen?

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Because I am sick of the "what ifs" and the "mabye so"'s.

I am sick of being hurt.

I am sick of being lost and confuse.

I am sick of hurting myself.

I am sick of not being prepared either.

I am sick of losing my mind.

I am really sick of wanting to die.

And I AM VERY ILL about some BS cycle of chasing pleasure and having my life being decived, strangled, smuthered and overall being a lie to those I care about and being let down by those who are called 'my friends'.

I really don't care about how you guys think about Jesus, God, whatever he is called.

Quite frankly, He's about the only one I can fully trust.

And the only family I seem to truly have left these days.

So far, I haven't been let down.

I just know that this life is a joke to what is promised us all by Him.

And I know for a fact that the first time around, Jesus came down to check out the place.

The second time He comes, he going to evict all the tennets who didn't follow the rules.
And not just with a scrappy piece of paper either.

I rather belive in someone or something that knows me well and be prepared for it then be in pain for not being prepared for it at all.

I just sick of this broken world period.


[This message has been edited by FourUntoFive (edited 11-25-2002).]

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"I am brother to Dragons and companion to owls".....

You have my deepest sympathies and condolences for your pains in this existence. Truly.

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Originally posted by margeri26:
=== Symbolic cannibalism : the communion? (the body of Christ)

Idolization of Death : Jesus hanging from his cross?

Symbols of torture: see above. Worshipping a man who was flogged, adorned with a crown of thorns, then [I/]NAILED[/I] to a friggin' cross, before being stabbed in the side to make sure he's dead?===

If you knew your religion then you would know that Jesus died and then came back to life to destroy the power of death and allow humankind to enter heaven.

I don't see communion as cannibalism. There is nothing bloody about it.

The crucifix is to remind us that Jesus died for every one of us.

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It's a SYMBOLISATION of cannibalism, not cannibalism itself. As to nothing bloody: have you heard the priest proclaiming the communion? 'The body of Christ', then 'the blood of christ'? They're symbols, true... but when you're objective about it, the priest feeds us human flesh and human blood, in the form of bread and wine. I'd say that's pretty much symbolic cannibalism.

And you yourself have proven my point valid... the cross is there to remind us Jesus died for us all. He died. Look at any crucifix worth its name... you'll see Jesus, nailed to the cross, wearing the crown of thorns, with a bloody gash in his side, and flogmarks on his body. The holy symbol of the Roman Catholic Chruch is a representation of a man who died in truly horrible conditions. Whatever his motivations were, it doesn't subtract from the fact that the man was tortured to death.

Sure... he returned three days later. So why aren't we worshipping Jesus standing in front of his cavern grave? Surely it's a more peaceful symbol then the dead man on a cross. It's a representation of death, just like the communion is a symbolic cannibalistic act. I'm not seeing them as religious acts, but as a rational, logical human being.

We can discuss our points... that's not the issue. Issue is that I don't want to fight over them.

edit: quotations didn't come out right

[This message has been edited by enterprise1701_d (edited 12-03-2002).]

Wasn't he supposed to come back like 2 years ago? What happened to the end of the world and Judgement day. I guess he forgot.

Jesus told his disciples that their generation will not pass away before the end of the world.

(Mat 24:34) Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.

Their generation did pass away, but the world didn't end.

Since veryone else has put their two cents in, here's mine. It seems to me that god used to be an active member of society, if you will. But these days, I don't see any direct action of god anywhere. All that I have personally witnessed (except for the simple fact of the existence of the universe around us), can be explained through science. However, I believe that god never did exist to meddle with our daily affairs and do direct work. I don't even believe that god (assuming he/she/it exists) has a heaven and hell waiting for us. Throughout history, god, in one form or another, has laid down laws mostly for the betterment of society. I believe that the notion of god was created by wise people who saw what lawless people could do and found that the best way to keep them in line was to play on their fear of death and the afterlife as well as lack of logical thinking, afterall, in ancient times, death was much closer than it is now. Yes, I am saying that god is a figment of someone's imagination, having been passed down through time as a method of keeping the people in line. It's worked great. The laws of many great countries are based on those of the Jewish bible. The laws of the U.S. are based on the Jewish bible. Maybe I'm an idiot, but there a few places that I'd rather live.

However, to be a good agnostic, I must say that the creation of the universe cannot (yet) be explained through science alone. I believe that if god does exist, he is but the ultimate creator, whose image was burned on the universe just long enough for ancient people to notice. However, I believe that now, god is either dead or eternally sleeping, as he has shown no active partaking in modern happenings.

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Originally posted by JesusFreak77:
Being in God's presence is the best feeling in the world.

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no, an orgasm is the best feeling in the world. Do as all a favor, and be in "god's" presence, don't hesitate to jump off a bridge, slit your wrists, or hang yourself and meet your "god."

[This message has been edited by econochrist (edited 12-10-2002).]

if he comits sucide he will go to hell. thats a sin hahaha. i dont belive in god but in jesus so :P

I won't ramble on about human nature, but one thing I must make clear: we as humans are scared of ignorance. The fact that something has no place, no order scares us. With this in mind, we can conclude that MAN CREATED GOD. God was created to add reason to teh unexplicable, in other words, to soothe us when we are scared of something we don't know.

You could argue that the creation of the universe has not been discovered, and therefore there is the possibiliity of a supreme omnipotent being. And centuries ago, you could have argued that the earth being flat was not proved, so there is the possibility of a supreme being.

Yes, it's hard to see my point, but what I'm trying to say is that sooner or later the thing that baffles us most will be proved by scientific discovery. God is the just the filler explanation that moves on to another enigma once the previous one was solved.

--Camel

i usually try to make my posts have meaning but:

christianity sucks

there, i said it

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Originally posted by ardene:
if he comits sucide he will go to hell. thats a sin hahaha. i dont belive in god but in jesus so :P

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The irony of your statement dodges you with supreme ninja skill....

*sigh*

Jesus was a hippie.

btw that's not a good thing.

[This message has been edited by Nyk (edited 12-12-2002).]

If Jesus was in a Final Fantasy RPG game, how many HP would he have?

Magus

I really get annoyed when people have such a one track mind and will not consider anyone elses views. Wouldnt it be smart to absorb all religions and follows things that make YOU feel good and dont tell people what is RIGHT or WRONG and what to believe... becasue you dont know anymore then anyone else. BELIEVE THAT!

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Originally posted by MagusWarlock:
If Jesus was in a Final Fantasy RPG game, how many HP would he have?

Magus

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Not that many.
He'd die pretty easily, but not before doing some profound stuff which affects the storyline of subsequent Final Fantasy games. (not always in a good way)

there is no 'right' or 'wrong' there just 'is'. There 'is' people out there who take the bible for its purpose: a bunch of stories and morals that tries to show you better ways of being a good person and getting along with everyone else in this life game, and there also 'is' a bunch of people out there too afraid of letting go of their physical world, that they have to make up magical tales of gods and devils - death aint so bad when you THINK youre going to go to a paradise filled with the treasures of your good deeds.
The bible's too contradictorary to be fully analyzed in a whole: because its 66 different points of view: 66 different books. of course with such a diversified source of fantasy there will be opposing opinions etc.

what you christian people SHOULD be doing is not worrying about the 'people that are damned to hell', certainly not forcing an opinion down their throat. they've made their choice, youve made yours. if you're right, what the fuck do you have to worry about? if you're wrong? well .. then we're all fucked

i just dont like the idea of 'serving' someone - not a king, not a old bearded white sheet wearing man, nor even a red firey pitchfork wielding horse gimp. i serve myself now, i used to be a christian. now i think for myself.