okay, lets all assume that there is a god, and that he created everything. he is this really excellent person who knows everything and is everywhere.

so, why are there stupid rules? he is one super smart being that knows everything, so why does he care if someone has a wank, is gay or works on sunday? these are the type of rules that a spiteful person in power does to humiliate and belittle others. so, this leads me to two conclusions, either god is a complete prick, deserving of no praise, or these rules are complete bullshit made up by people with serious issues.

i assume that god is a pascifist. there is no reason that anyone who has created life wants them to kill each other. for any reason. he did, after all say 'thou shalt not kill' (one of ten definite things in the bible, and the most overlooked). any intelligent person knows that killing is wrong, and avoids it. god would be no diffrent, esspecially since he would not take sides and made everyone with the same amount of attention and love. a really understanding friendly person in the sky would not be petty, he would have the greatest perspective of all.

also, why should god care if anyone belived in him. as i said, he has perspective, so what does he care if someone refuses to belive he exists, or thinks of him under a diffrent name or form. he knows the situation down here, and he would be the most caring and compasionate fellow in the world, so its not like he would hold it against you. he exists whether you belive in him or not, so he is hardly going to take offence, and if was taking offence you think he might correct the situation and pay us a little visit. it wouldn't be hard for him, and would settle a fair bit of fighting down here.

he would only want us, his creation, to have happy lives before joining him in heaven. that means that he does not want us raping and killing each other for any reason. it seems only right. he loves everyone of us, playing no favorites, so therefore he would make no distinction between the murder of a catholic priest and a buhddist. he would not care if it is christians killing islamics or vice versa, all he would be concerned with is the fact that he has invented a phsycotic race. there was no asterix next to 'thou shalt not kill'.

you get the whole 'no one knows gods will' thing that seems to be of great satisfaction to grieving parents who have lost all their children in some bus crash or landslide, but i think that it is pretty safe to assume that god is a friendly dude who would defend us to the death in some bar argument.

i guess my point is that god is not how he is portrayed in the little books that are taken too seriously. it defies logic. the books were written by people with thier own agenda, not dictated by god. why on earth would god care what i do with my time that is of no consequence of anything else. he is not some pedantic overbearing paraniod egocentric who only cares about what people think about him. do you think a person like that could make the world in seven days?


this is all supposed, and some of it is why i shall continue to be a nihilist. no one who loves his creation could let it go to this much shit.

My gods arent all powerful and creators of everything.

then you might want to consider an upgrade. there has been some pretty big leaps in god technology in the past few thousand years. they bundled all the crap ones into a big massive one, who for some reason doesn't get a name.

fuck it though, theyre all inventions. i pity the people that need them.

Atheism is an invention of people who need to feel above people they otherwise couldnt, so they could feel pity for someone and make believe they are higher. Kinda like Christianity.

quote:

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
Atheism is an invention of people who need to feel above people they otherwise couldnt, so they could feel pity for someone and make believe they are higher. Kinda like Christianity.

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Atheism is the direct result of failed promises and inconsistent dogma. Do I, as an atheist, feel that I am somehow smarter than theists? You're damn right I do.

quote:

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Originally posted by ytrewq:
Atheism is the direct result of failed promises and inconsistent dogma. Do I, as an atheist, feel that I am somehow smarter than theists? You're damn right I do.

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I can see the logic in that. If someone came running in from the desert, living off of grasshoppers and honey, ranting about their invisible friend in the sky, I would tell them to get the fuck outta here.

Atheism is the direct result of crazy people needing a label for everyone who don't talk to their imaginary friend.

quote:

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
My gods...

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...are just hobby gods.

Their names and images are, of course. Those are the things that fascinate and intrigue me. You think contemplating a faceless, inhuman force with no physical shape and form is any fun and stirs anything? Hell no, a natural human thought process is symbolism. Its easier and more accurate to communicate absract things through symbols like Jupiter.

But all my gods are still just aspects of a greater energy, whose reality sets the rules even for gods.

quote:

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Atheism is an invention of people who need to feel above people they otherwise couldnt, so they could feel pity for someone and make believe they are higher. Kinda like Christianity.

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No. Not really. There's nothing to invent.

Is it your own insecurities with your beliefs and perspectives that makes you all have to attack those of the others who share their thoughts?

If you can't discuss these ideas in a mature and rational fashion, you are really doing nothing more than propigating a MGCBtSooYG equivalent of the 5-year old children playing cops and robbers wherein one child pretends to shoot the other and then they argue back and forth for hours as follows:

Kid 1: "I shot you"
Kid 2: "Nuh uh, you missed"
Kid 1: "Did not"
Kid 2: "Did too"
Kid 1: "Did not"
Kid 2: "Did too"
...<ad infinitum>...

Much like their situation, neither side can bring any proof of their argument, since it involves an object we can neither see nor feel except for in our imaginations. The age old concept of personified deific force...

Rather than continue in the argument until your mom calls you inside for supper, why can't you just agree to disagree and stop trying to one up eachother or prove eachother wrong. No one will change their mind about their beleifs because you called them a "dummy-head" for believing as they do.

Beliefs and Faiths are not changed easily, and most certainly they are not changed by simply saying "you're wrong" or making fun of a person's beliefs. If you feel you see a truth that others do not, and you really want to share your insight, feel free. If you just want to belittle the perspectives of others, perhaps you know nothing except insecurity which can only be assuaged temporarily by convincing yourself you rattled someone's reality with your shallow attacks upon what they attempted to share with you.

god is innocent of existing till proven guilty.

its only fair.

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Originally posted by RAOVQ:
god is innocent of existing till proven guilty.

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Hah! Despite it distributing all the signs of non-existence and none of those that would indicate otherwise, right?

If your going to reason like that, you might as well not discriminate with it. You should also be arguing for the existence of leprechauns, trolls, werewolves, vampires, pixies, etc. because they can't be proven to not exist. It's probably because there is no evidence to validate it either way, which is painfully obvious of non-existence, but what the hell.

lol, I called them "hobby" gods - just to push a button, and then you make the best post you've ever made.

DM, I'm afraid you misunderstood what he said. "god is innocent of existing till proven guilty," implying that there is no God until proof of one is found.

Hmmmmmm... I keep seeing a recurring theme on many of these threads. That is, "There is no God until proof of one is found."

What a fascinating concept! I have to wonder though... I wonder what sort of proof would be acceptable to those that make that statement. I mean, what sort of entity or miracle should reveal its self in an effort to establish undeniable, unequivocal, in-your-face, you'd-better-fucking-believe-it PROOF? Hmmmmmmm? Do any of you non-believers out there have any idea? What kind of proof would you accept? Or perhaps it's simply much easier to sit back, close your mind and deny the possibility that there MIGHT BE some form of creator that some people just might happen to call "God"?

Well, I must tell you, I'm not a believer in the illusiory "God" that is so highly over rated in the bible. "HE" is fiction. "HE" is some pretty good theological puppet strings. "HE" is definitely the "opiate for the masses".

But that doesn't mean I'm not a spiritual person. Quite to the contrary. I am very spiritual...NOT religious, but spiritual.
And I DO allow for the possibility for there being a creator of "all that is". Frankly, I see no reason for NOT keeping an open mind to that fact. I mean, what's the "down side" to keeping an open mind?

Has it ever occured to you that perhaps the "PROOF" of the existence of a creator is staring us right in the face but is simply not recognized or accepted or believed to be true? Hell, I can think of numerous things that could be ablolute PROOF of the existence of a creator! The question is, will that "PROOF" meet the test of ignorance, prejudice and fear that it would certainly be subjected to? I don't know of many things that WOULD hold up under such pressure!

[This message has been edited by Ursus (edited 10-13-2002).]

>>>>lol, I called them "hobby" gods - just to push a button, and then you make the best post you've ever made.<<<<

LoL. Sorry?

I won't believe in a creator that could care less.
Why would a creator who doesn't care about anything it creates care enough to create them?

The concept of a close minded atheist makes me laugh, I can't explain it, and If I attempted I probably wouldn't do it justice.

I create things like drawings, stories, etc, for my own amusement. I dont care about what happens to my creations, so long as I am entertained.

I create drawings and stories also. Rarely do I find myself finished, that's what entertains me.

My point is, it isnt hard to imagine something that creates things it doest care about.

First off I have to say I believe in a God or whatever etc. Far too many ironies have occured in my life to be just coincedence.

As far as God/Gods not caring for his/her/their creations think of it this way.

When you create a character for a video game, draw a picture, design a program, dress a doll, etc. Most of the time you do such things to upstage someone else. You want the best, and you try to make the best. So how do you prove your creation is better?
You test it.

As far as proof of God/etc. billions of people believe in one. It only takes a jury of 12 to decide someones fate here...

Hi Bogey Man,
You stated, "The concept of a close minded atheist makes me laugh, I can't explain it, and If I attempted I probably wouldn't do it justice."
I'd like to hear what you have to say...ya wanna give it a try anyway?
As far as you not wanting to believe in a creator that doesn't care... Just because you don't understand the purpose of creation does not mean that there is no purpose. To say that a creator doesn't care is to imply that you understand why you are living a physical existence. I would have to challenge that supposition, I suppose. IF the creator exists, and IF the creator cares about it's creation, then I see no reason why those facts need be made clear to our level of understanding. There are many things that we fail to understand, yet that lack of understanding or acceptance neither negates nor diminishes the existence of those realities. They simply remain unactualized.

"I'd like to hear what you have to say...ya wanna give it a try anyway?"

I guess I base my statement on my own experience. I know that starting as a Christian and working my way through different phases has forced me to keep an open mind. Going from Christian, to what I would describe as deism, to being agnostic, and finally atheism wasn't easy, and I didn't do it by turning my brain off.

As for the care free God, I was just bringing that up before someone brought up the old argument of why God would care about me.
I'm a big fan of fairy tales, but God goes against my principles.

>>>>When you create a character for a video game, draw a picture, design a program, dress a doll, etc. Most of the time you do such things to upstage someone else.<<<<<

LoL, you got problems man. Is this true of anyone besides him?

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
LoL, you got problems man. Is this true of anyone besides him?

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I guess I didn't put that into words very well, but I really can't think of any other way to put it. I guess what I'm trying to say is we are always comparing ourselves, or beliefs and trying to prove ourselves right or better. So I guess what I'm attempting to say as that as a creation of God were put through this hell of a life as a test to prove we are the best of creations. But then again that seems like a bucha sappy B.S. to me too.