i am an athiest i say that there is no god and that all religious people are wasting their lives, i would like to be proven wrong. which god do you think is the real one? show me some evidence!

the bible is bullshit it constantly contradicts itself and it says the world is flat, if you ask me there is no god

If you ask me, thinking theres no god because a book of jewish folk=tales is obviously just a book of jewish folk-tales is mindless and nauseating.

That's why I think there is no Judeo/Christian God. Or any other God of organized religion for that matter.

Even if some type of God force exists, which is probably nothing along the lines of Biblical anthropomorphism, I doubt any religion has a deadlock monopoly on it.

This has little to do with the existence of a god.

Hi lost,

Long time no see. Welcome back.

You ask a difficult question. You are trying to prove a negative.

Unlike you, I am a diest. I am not part of the organized religion crowd...I just feel that there exists that which is greater than man. I believe in the "big bang" but I go beyond the bang and ask where the energy came from which started the bang. Quantum mechanics falls back on the spontaneous generation theory part of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, but I reject that. I will never believe in the concept, first nothing, then something.

The esoteric nature of the existence of that big bang energy is my "proof" of that which is greater than man. Notice I did not use the tired, worn out word God. I flatly reject the Old Testament YHWH (I know that you and I could spend hours on that subject- you talking, me listening). That 'God' is a mean, spiteful, nasty, psycopath. However, the 'God of Love' depicted in the Christian scriptures is an inconsistent nothing until the final days, when his psycopathic nature comes screaming through again. I won't dissect any other religions now because my fingers grow weary.

I don't know if what I said helps you any. So far, my warped views work for me.

XOXOXOXO

Nox

quote:

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Originally posted by lost_cause:
i am an athiest i say that there is no god and that all religious people are wasting their lives, i would like to be proven wrong. which god do you think is the real one? show me some evidence!

---

Everybody serves somebody, and your God will be whoever or whatever you serve. It may be yourself, it may be your partner, guru, boss or motorcycle, what ever one predominantly spends their life and time in thought and work for - that is their Ultimate expression of life or meaning - their God.

"A man believes what he wants to and disregards the rest".

We are our own gods!

I recognize that where I live, what I live with, who I live with are all part of the gods I know and love.

Was that confusing? Sure, but it wasn't supposed to be clear, I suppose.

i believe in a god but as for heaven and hell i think the idea is to scare people into having morals

Close, but you're all way off.
Beany

Lost_cause this is for you. You say the bible contradicts itself? You say you want prof? Put your bible away. Open your door and walk outside. Then look around. Dont see what man has created see what has always been..mother earth. What is the cycle of things? to detiriorate...to break down into there natural state. If you put an old junked up car into a junk yard..what do you have in ten years? a nice shiny 2010 BMW? no you have a pile of rust...returning to its natural state. as does EVERYTHING...as do you. Tell me know that you can say two atoms knocked into each other and well...here you are. People cannot begin to explain how or why some things are. Life is to complex to not have a God(notice I use the word God in a very proud and open way...) I belive in God.

When you see someone, they have wronged you in some way...you want to kill them...but you dont because somewhere deep down you know its wrong. You are standing and the dvd player section of a store, easy..just slip it in your sleave and walk out...no prob...but for a second you think...this is wrong. You yell at your parents...then feal bad...where do these fealings come from? The law you say. What law? Mans law? well it says right on the dollar bill. "In God we trust" Where did they get there law? Its a big circle...everything points to everything else....but in the middle of the circle is what makes it go round.

Let me tell you about a dream I had...just recently infact. A large building that had many stories in it. I was inside and found myself in a hallway. The building was made of glass. All the rooms where the same size, they all had benches and a pulpit. In each room there are people standing, some are looking at me. What I notice is that nobody is ackowledgeing any one in the other rooms. The walls are glass...its not like they cannot see each other. Each group of people is so blind in there conviction they are not willing to shift there gaze in the slightest to see what is around them...they just stare at me as if expecting something. Each "church" taught a different story, a different truth...why were they in the same building and teaching differnt things?

I really wish I knew what it all ment.

~GV

night all

The natural state of iron isnt rust...


>>>>When you see someone, they have wronged you in some way...you want to kill them...but you dont because somewhere deep down you know its wrong.<<<<<

No its not. Most people dont kill because they will get caught and punished by systems that see murder as a threat to its stability. Nowhere in nature is killing wrong. Only recently in mans history have some societies thought it wrong.

"I will restore the flash of the predator to their eyes- That is how I will erase 10,000 years of human domestication. That is how I will create the New Order."

>>>>>You are standing and the dvd player section of a store, easy..just slip it in your sleave and walk out...no prob...but for a second you think...this is wrong.<<<<<

No you dont. You think, "Is it worth it?" Stealing from a faceless international giant is not wrong.

>>>> You yell at your parents...then feal bad...where do these fealings come from?<<<<

Fear.

>>>>>>The law you say. What law? <<<<


Gods' (natural...)

quote:

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Originally posted by GV:
Each "church" taught a different story, a different truth...why were they in the same building and teaching differnt things?

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I have a feeling you already know the answer. The building is Earth, actually the universe. Each room obviously representing different beliefs. They all taught different truths because they are all true. But to the same extent they are all false. I have an important question, Is it a one level building? If so this would mean that all truths are equal, if not this would mean some truths are higher than others. Well I guess they are both actually, depending of course on your perspective.

Hello lost_cause
"You asked for Evidence?O.K,here it is and
this will Prove to you that there is a GOD.
"Can you handly the truth after I prove it
to you?If so then PLEASE PULL DOWN YOUR PANTS AND TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT YOUR DICK,AND
YOU WILL SEE THAT YOU ONLY have a 3.1in DICK."THAT is your PROVE THE there is a GOD because GOD only gives SMALL dicks to LOST
CAUSES like you."AND THERE IS YOUR PROVE.
AND YOUR GOD AFTER YOU DO THAT WILL BE THE GOD OF SMALL STANDARDS...LOLOLOLOL

"Now say AMENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN.

KHAINE

Go away.

quote:

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Originally posted by Khaine:
Hello lost_cause
PLEASE PULL DOWN YOUR PANTS AND TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT YOUR DICK,AND
YOU WILL SEE THAT YOU ONLY have a 3.1in DICK.
KHAINE

---

lost_cause is a female.

You are a rude jerk/idiot/moron/geek/fool.

I am:

Nox

quote:

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Originally posted by lost_cause:
i am an athiest i say that there is no god and that all religious people are wasting their lives, i would like to be proven wrong. which god do you think is the real one? show me some evidence!

---

your attitude speaks volumes about why you havent found him yet.

you shouldnt ask which one, because its both none of them and all of them. thats the wrong way to approach this question. try looking for "one" instead of "the one", look for what our religious interpretations of him have in common and then decide for yourself what makes sense. you probably wouldnt accept the answers others have found anyway and that is something good which you can build on. if your that critical then youll probably evenually build a case against beleiving in god and prove yourself right, or wrong. thats what critical thinkers do but stating your opinion and telling others to prove you wrong may not be the best way to soak up all the helpful info youll need to answer this.

im amazed at how many atheist people there are here. whats the current ratio of beleivers to disbeleivers? 20/80? even more then that? is there any way to do an accurate headcount?

quote:

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Originally posted by insomniazz:
whats the current ratio of beleivers to disbeleivers? 20/80? even more then that? is there any way to do an accurate headcount?

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Let's do a definition of terms here. Do you define 'believers' to mean Christians or diests? Makes a big difference my friend.

Nox

quote:

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Originally posted by GV:
Lost_cause this is for you. You say the bible contradicts itself? You say you want prof? Put your bible away. Open your door and walk outside. Then look around. Dont see what man has created see what has always been..mother earth.

---

The Earth has not always been and doesn;t prove anything but our existence.

I am God.
You are God.
They are God.
Everything is God.

If you do not believe in the existence of all that you see, feel, taste, touch, hear, think, know, and learn...Then you do not believe in God. This is my interpretation of your question. God is not some bearded guy in the sky with a list of things you shouldn't do or he'll cook you in the Hell-furnace forever....Religions personify, externalize, and bastardize the truth of "God"....They demean it in seeking to "identify" and "interact" with it in a way that attempts to bring the truth down to the lowest common denominator of the "sheep" rather than trying to raise the "sheep" up to the level wherein they can understand the truth.

Religion is a poor substitute for Spirituality...Spirituality does not necessarily have to be intangible theoreticals and hocus pocus...And when one man's spirituality becomes the altar you worship at, it becomes a religion, and you become a sheep, and fodder...

It occurs to me that those who do not want to see proof of God will not grasp what it is I've said here...Those who WANT to see proof of God will not grasp what I've said either....

What an odd predicament. I wonder who WILL read my words as they were intended...Maybe somewhere on some level, you all will. Maybe not.

It's extremely difficult to communicate such broad and powerful ideas within the limited scope of parameters that are presented by the arguments of most people who want you to "prove God exists"....Primarily their presupposition as to the definition of "God" and the predisposition to disbelieve anything they do not quite grasp....

Take it how you will...just my buck and a quarter.

It's nice to see more and more people who share extremely similar beliefs and understandings as me.
IE: Chaoswyrm, Insomniazz, curious monkey and Evolove. Maybe more

[This message has been edited by Beany (edited 09-28-2002).]

Nox, is this the same Lost cause? this one only has 2 posts.

You're right...I'm wrong. I'd better pay more attention in the future. Cursed alzheimers (or maybe I'm just stupid).

*Nox takes back XOXOXO*

Nox

quote:

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Originally posted by ChaosWyrm:


What an odd predicament. I wonder who WILL read my words as they were intended...Maybe somewhere on some level, you all will. Maybe not.

It's extremely difficult to communicate such broad and powerful ideas within the limited scope of parameters that are presented by the arguments of most people who want you to "prove God exists"....Primarily their presupposition as to the definition of "God" and the predisposition to disbelieve anything they do not quite grasp....

Take it how you will...just my buck and a quarter.

---

Inspired is my "buck and a quarter"! Rarely have I seen such a succinct statement of logic.

quote:

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Originally posted by Nox:
Let's do a definition of terms here. Do you define 'believers' to mean Christians or diests? Makes a big difference my friend.

Nox

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good point... diests to atheists then. beleivers to non beleivers. which side is winning?

quote:

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Originally posted by redzed:
Inspired is my "buck and a quarter"! Rarely have I seen such a succinct statement of logic.

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What exactly made you say so?

quote:

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Originally posted by ChaosWyrm:
What exactly made you say so?

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Exactly? Hard to say because the exact point you made was in harmony with the rest of your post and understood in the context of the other things you wrote.

This stands out as logic:

quote:

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It's extremely difficult to communicate such broad and powerful ideas within the limited scope of parameters that are presented by the arguments of most people who want you to "prove God exists"....Primarily their presupposition as to the definition of "God" and the predisposition to disbelieve anything they do not quite grasp....

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Life is a caberet my friend, full of different flavours, some are good, some not so good, the 'flavour' of your post was good!

"Values are like fingerprints. Nobody's are the same, but you leave 'em all over everything you do."
- Elvis Presley

lostcause i tought you were JEW one day you complained about ANTISEMITISME !!!

quote:

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Originally posted by redzed:
Life is a caberet my friend, full of different flavours, some are good, some not so good, the 'flavour' of your post was good!

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Fair enough, Thank you.

quote:

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Originally posted by lost_cause:
i am an athiest i say that there is no god and that all religious people are wasting their lives, i would like to be proven wrong. which god do you think is the real one? show me some evidence!

---

Bravo

God Is Nowhere

God Is Now here

quote:

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Originally posted by lost_cause:
i am an athiest i say that there is no god and that all religious people are wasting their lives, i would like to be proven wrong. which god do you think is the real one? show me some evidence!

---

Show me some evidence god doesn't exist...

quote:

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Originally posted by TigerJK:
Show me some evidence god doesn't exist...

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Tiger,

Bad logic train...You are asking someone to prove a negative. Can't be done.

Nox

I will always say that I am a Christian, in my replies, to show where I stand to start off with. I am really feeling What ChaosWyrm said about, "Religion being a poor excuse for Spirituality." Man will inevitably fuck up the spirituality that God has given him. There are only a few occurrences where this doesn't happen.


To whomever said something about the Bible always contradicting itself, I have come to find that the more true I am to my spirituality, the less the contradicting the Bible is. It only appears to be hypocritical because, of ones own contradictions.


[This message has been edited by Longsuffa R Malice (edited 10-08-2002).]

quote:

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Originally posted by Longsuffa R Malice:
To whomever said something about the Bible always contradicting itself, I have come to find that the more true I am to my spirituality, the less the contradicting the Bible is.

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I have come to find that the more indoctrinated, apologetic inundated, and brainwashed a person gets, the less and less flaws they will see within their own religion. The more you question the more you doubt.

quote:

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Originally posted by Longsuffa R Malice:
I will always say that I am a Christian, in my replies, to show where I stand to start off with.

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G'day LRM, please define Christian, it will help with understanding 'where you stand'.
Thanks.

quote:

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Originally posted by Nox:
Tiger,

Bad logic train...You are asking someone to prove a negative. Can't be done.

Nox

---

Thank you Nox...
I rest my case...

Whether God exists?
Objection 1. It seems that God does not exist; because if one of two contraries be infinite, the other would be altogether destroyed. But the word "God" means that He is infinite goodness. If, therefore, God existed, there would be no evil discoverable; but there is evil in the world. Therefore God does not exist.

Objection 2. Further, it is superfluous to suppose that what can be accounted for by a few principles has been produced by many. But it seems that everything we see in the world can be accounted for by other principles, supposing God did not exist. For all natural things can be reduced to one principle which is nature; and all voluntary things can be reduced to one principle which is human reason, or will. Therefore there is no need to suppose God's existence.

On the contrary, It is said in the person of God: "I am Who am." (Exodus 3:14)

I answer that, The existence of God can be proved in five ways.

The first and more manifest way is the argument from motion. It is certain, and evident to our senses, that in the world some things are in motion. Now whatever is in motion is put in motion by another, for nothing can be in motion except it is in potentiality to that towards which it is in motion; whereas a thing moves inasmuch as it is in act. For motion is nothing else than the reduction of something from potentiality to actuality. But nothing can be reduced from potentiality to actuality, except by something in a state of actuality. Thus that which is actually hot, as fire, makes wood, which is potentially hot, to be actually hot, and thereby moves and changes it. Now it is not possible that the same thing should be at once in actuality and potentiality in the same respect, but only in different respects. For what is actually hot cannot simultaneously be potentially hot; but it is simultaneously potentially cold. It is therefore impossible that in the same respect and in the same way a thing should be both mover and moved, i.e. that it should move itself. Therefore, whatever is in motion must be put in motion by another. If that by which it is put in motion be itself put in motion, then this also must needs be put in motion by another, and that by another again. But this cannot go on to infinity, because then there would be no first mover, and, consequently, no other mover; seeing that subsequent movers move only inasmuch as they are put in motion by the first mover; as the staff moves only because it is put in motion by the hand. Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.

The second way is from the nature of the efficient cause. In the world of sense we find there is an order of efficient causes. There is no case known (neither is it, indeed, possible) in which a thing is found to be the efficient cause of itself; for so it would be prior to itself, which is impossible. Now in efficient causes it is not possible to go on to infinity, because in all efficient causes following in order, the first is the cause of the intermediate cause, and the intermediate is the cause of the ultimate cause, whether the intermediate cause be several, or only one. Now to take away the cause is to take away the effect. Therefore, if there be no first cause among efficient causes, there will be no ultimate, nor any intermediate cause. But if in efficient causes it is possible to go on to infinity, there will be no first efficient cause, neither will there be an ultimate effect, nor any intermediate efficient causes; all of which is plainly false. Therefore it is necessary to admit a first efficient cause, to which everyone gives the name of God.

The third way is taken from possibility and necessity, and runs thus. We find in nature things that are possible to be and not to be, since they are found to be generated, and to corrupt, and consequently, they are possible to be and not to be. But it is impossible for these always to exist, for that which is possible not to be at some time is not. Therefore, if everything is possible not to be, then at one time there could have been nothing in existence. Now if this were true, even now there would be nothing in existence, because that which does not exist only begins to exist by something already existing. Therefore, if at one time nothing was in existence, it would have been impossible for anything to have begun to exist; and thus even now nothing would be in existence--which is absurd. Therefore, not all beings are merely possible, but there must exist something the existence of which is necessary. But every necessary thing either has its necessity caused by another, or not. Now it is impossible to go on to infinity in necessary things which have their necessity caused by another, as has been already proved in regard to efficient causes. Therefore we cannot but postulate the existence of some being having of itself its own necessity, and not receiving it from another, but rather causing in others their necessity. This all men speak of as God.

The fourth way is taken from the gradation to be found in things. Among beings there are some more and some less good, true, noble and the like. But "more" and "less" are predicated of different things, according as they resemble in their different ways something which is the maximum, as a thing is said to be hotter according as it more nearly resembles that which is hottest; so that there is something which is truest, something best, something noblest and, consequently, something which is uttermost being; for those things that are greatest in truth are greatest in being, as it is written in Metaph. ii. Now the maximum in any genus is the cause of all in that genus; as fire, which is the maximum heat, is the cause of all hot things. Therefore there must also be something which is to all beings the cause of their being, goodness, and every other perfection; and this we call God.

The fifth way is taken from the governance of the world. We see that things which lack intelligence, such as natural bodies, act for an end, and this is evident from their acting always, or nearly always, in the same way, so as to obtain the best result. Hence it is plain that not fortuitously, but designedly, do they achieve their end. Now whatever lacks intelligence cannot move towards an end, unless it be directed by some being endowed with knowledge and intelligence; as the arrow is shot to its mark by the archer. Therefore some intelligent being exists by whom all natural things are directed to their end; and this being we call God.

Reply to Objection 1. As Augustine says (Enchiridion xi): "Since God is the highest good, He would not allow any evil to exist in His works, unless His omnipotence and goodness were such as to bring good even out of evil." This is part of the infinite goodness of God, that He should allow evil to exist, and out of it produce good.

Reply to Objection 2. Since nature works for a determinate end under the direction of a higher agent, whatever is done by nature must needs be traced back to God, as to its first cause. So also whatever is done voluntarily must also be traced back to some higher cause other than human reason or will, since these can change or fail; for all things that are changeable and capable of defect must be traced back to an immovable and self-necessary first principle, as was shown in the body of the Article.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dark_Magneto:
I have come to find that the more indoctrinated, apologetic inundated, and brainwashed a person gets, the less and less flaws they will see within their own religion. The more you question the more you doubt.

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I never said that the flaws disappeared, nor am I any more apologetic than I have ever been. The more brainwashed, hardly. I like several things from lots of different ways of thinking and religions. Even you.
Even if a belief is considered to be wrong by the majority, look for the truth in it.
Cuz it's true to someone.
I don't agree with the KKK's thoughts about racism, but I try to understand where their retarded asses are coming from.
Nor did I ever say that everyone's truth lies in religion. So come correct next time.

"TheTruth�" is entirely subjective.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dark_Magneto:
" TheTruth�"is entirely subjective.

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What's "TheTruth�" I'm probably too young to know what you're referring to. But I'm speaking actual truth. It can be subjective if you want it to be. To some extent it is, but you know as well as I that there are absolutes.

Yeah, ther are absolutes unless your a nihilist or a solipsist.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dark_Magneto:
Yeah, ther are absolutes unless your a nihilist or a solipsist.

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Agreed, but that isn't you, is it. I need to become more well versed in those theories to able to speak on them, however.

[This message has been edited by Longsuffa R Malice (edited 10-09-2002).]

quote:

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Originally posted by redzed:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Longsuffa R Malice:
[b] I will always say that I am a Christian, in my replies, to show where I stand to start off with.

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G'day LRM, please define Christian, it will help with understanding 'where you stand'.
Thanks.

[/B][/QUOTE]


Sorry for not anwsering you quickly, redzed.
I believe in the trinity, the Bible's teachings and Jesus is the son of God of course, but am open to and curious of all other ways of life/religion. However, I won't sway in my belief.