Some belive, some are relgions, some are neither, some are both. Thee ones who belive and are not religions, they are avoiding the adventure of relgion by beliving.

Religion IS an adventure, it allows you to expant and collapse the negativity that has surrounded you, it allows you to be yourself without being told who and what to be or belive.

Adventure is something to belive in, Adventure is fun, adventure leads you to places, weather in a frenzy or slow and steady, we are ready to udnerstand, those who do not want to belive are afraid of what there is to see.

Those who want to avoid religion are afraid to being told what to believe, those who are afraid to belive in religon or have a religions belief are both afraid of what there is to find.

And above all the confusion that comes from teh fusion of the conversing existensialist ideas is at the very least, a comprimise of the factioning of the human psyche, but thats something else alltogher

Just because your told to believe in something doesn't make it true. It actually makes it pretty damn far from it.

I don't find religion an adventure because you have already conceded to a preconcieved conclusion, reguardless of what the evidence indicates or what the reality of the situation might be.

The adventure is in seeking the truth and trying to find out what the real answer is and not just subscribing to some elaborately engineered manmade system that is more than likely innaccurate on it's accounts.

If you cant find a religion that absolutely fascinates and enthralls you, you have problems.

If you cant find a person that absolutely fascinates and enthralls you, you have bigger problems because your going to die alone and, while not always, most likly less happier then if you had. who cares about religion? "oh oh i love god" why? does god hold you close at night and keep you feeling warm and comfortable and safe? no, because god's not there to hold you. does god, any god, give you an insanly happy feeling when you look into its eyes? no, because you cant see its eyes or you can only see the cold lifeless eyes of a painting or statue that someone decided looked like thier god without ever actually seeing him, her, or it, unless of course they took too much acid. when god smiles at you do you fall hopelessly in love with god? no because you cant see god smile! who cares wether you find a religion interesting or not?!?! none of them a even a millionth as great as even the mere concept of love. i'll take my fiance over any god any day. anyone who thinks religion makes them truely happy isn't truely happy to begin with.

>>>>If you cant find a person that absolutely fascinates and enthralls you, you have bigger problems because your going to die alone<<<<<

Ok. and? Are you saying you have to choose between being in love and having a religion? Im religious and I am madly in love.

>>>>>and, while not always, most likly less happier then if you had. who cares about religion?<<<<<

5 Billion living people, and about 99% of all who ever lived.

>>>>>"oh oh i love god" why?<<<<

Because a god is a force encompasses, creates, or is otherwise associated with things worth loving.

>>>> does god hold you close at night and keep you feeling warm and comfortable and safe?<<<<<

Sometimes. Saying, "In the name of Jesus I command you to leave" has sent demons away, so Id imagine if a demon were keeping you up at night by making the room 12 degrees and stuff, being warm, safe, and comfy would be a direct result of a god.

>>>>> no, because god's not there to hold you. does god, any god, give you an insanly happy feeling when you look into its eyes?<<<<

Maybe. Have you ever looked at the face of God? People who claim to have seen other gods seem happy if its a good god, or nuts if its a scary one.

>>>>> no, because you cant see its eyes or you can only see the cold lifeless eyes of a painting or statue that someone decided looked like thier god without ever actually seeing him, her, or it<<<<<

Then that would be looking at a statue, not god, wouldnt it?

>>>>> when god smiles at you do you fall hopelessly in love with god? no because you cant see god smile!<<<<<

How do you know? And if you absolutely cannot, when ask about your reaction when it happens?

>>>>>who cares wether you find a religion interesting or not?!?!<<<<<

Almost everyone.

>>>>>none of them a even a millionth as great as even the mere concept of love.<<<<

Yes they are. Im madly in love, and I would leave my woman to die for my religion.

>>>>i'll take my fiance over any god any day.<<<<<

Youre going to show her this post, arent you?

>>>> anyone who thinks religion makes them truely happy isn't truely happy to begin with.<<<<

anyone who needs a fiance to be happy is probaly dumb enough to think that.

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
Saying, "In the name of Jesus I command you to leave" has sent demons away

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A personal experience?

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You're going to show her this post, arent you?

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You both look whipped from where I sit.

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
Im madly in love, and I would leave my woman to die for my religion.

Youre going to show her this post, arent you?

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first of all actually no im not planning on showing it to her. i dont see the point. and second how can you say you "madly in love" but that you would leave her to die for a religion? i would have to say that you most certainly are not madly in love. you may think you are, but if she feels the same way and you truely were madly in love with her i would not believe that you would cause her the imense(how is that spelled?) pain of losing you. especialy(ack stupid lack of spell check) for something like a belief that hasn't even been proven to you first hand. religions are based on stories, most of them very good stories, but you can't ever really know that the stories are true or not. you can believe they are if you wish but you can never truely be sure and if they are real or simple works of fiction. its about what you believe and what you dont. however, if you are willing to die for what you believe to be true but sre not sure is true, if you are willing to end your life and cause everyone including this girl(and i say girl cause im convinced you cant be older then 14 at the most) a lot of pain at missing you(not that im certain all that many people would) well then you are a fanatical fool who probably deserves to die and i would wish it upon you except for the fact that i would feel bad because while you may deserve it for your aparent stupidity(i say apparent because i really cant be sure your not smarter then this and just being annoying) others in your life who may truely care for you do not deserve that pain. esspecially not over something as trivial as religion.

>>>>>>>first of all actually no im not planning on showing it to her. i dont see the point. and second how can you say you "madly in love" but that you would leave her to die for a religion?<<<<

because my religion (natural law) demands certain things of its men, and protection of its people is one of them, so if my people were threatened, it is my duty to go defend them. I love my woman, partly because she understands and respects that.
Nations of men who think like me tend to win and are able to go home to their women. Nations of men who think being in love gives them an excuse to burn their draft cards and hide between their wife's legs tend to lose, have no dignity, and can offer the women they love nothing.

>>>>>i would have to say that you most certainly are not madly in love. you may think you are, but if she feels the same way and you truely were madly in love with her i would not believe that you would cause her the imense(how is that spelled?) pain of losing you.<<<<<

Her pain in losing me would be relieved by pride in sacrifice, and my family should that happen would take good care of her.

>>>>>especialy(ack stupid lack of spell check) for something like a belief that hasn't even been proven to you first hand.<<<<

It has.

>>>> religions are based on stories<<<<<

No theyre not. stories are usually based on religions.

>>>>> but you can't ever really know that the stories are true or not.<<<<<

Yes you can.

>>>>>if you are willing to die for what you believe to be true but sre not sure is true, if you are willing to end your life and cause everyone including this girl(and i say girl cause im convinced you cant be older then 14 at the most)<<<<<

21.

>>>> a lot of pain at missing you(not that im certain all that many people would)<<<<

Save the smug asshole routine pussyboy. If your woman thinks staying with her in times of conflict when you are needed is love, she is just as defeated and worthless as you.

>>>>> well then you are a fanatical fool who probably deserves to die<<<<

Except your false and apologist backpeddling pity, how is your thinking me worthy of death for disagreeing with you different than Torquemeda's point of view wanting to kill you for disagreeing with him?

>>>> esspecially not over something as trivial as religion<<<<

LoL. Yeah. Timeless and immortal roots of being and the infinity of the micro and macrocosm are trivial compared to your fiance. You get yelled at for watching football, dont you?

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:


because my religion (natural law) demands certain things of its men, and protection of its people is one of them, so if my people were threatened, it is my duty to go defend them.[B]

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natural law isn't a religion its a concept and im sure you wont find many people who would agree that they are one of "your people"

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[B]
Nations of men who think like me tend to win.

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men like you are the reason for problems that lead to war and nations of men like you start wars.

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Nations of men who think being in love gives them an excuse to burn their draft cards and hide between their wife's legs tend to lose, have no dignity, and can offer the women they love nothing.

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except love which is what they should want in the first place unless they're gold diggers like yours probably is... but then i dont know you strike me as the trailer trash type...

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Her pain in losing me would be relieved by pride in sacrifice, and my family should that happen would take good care of her.

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ask her sometime... and if its true well then i pity you, her, and your family.

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It has.

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no it hasn't because like i said natural law isn't a religion

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No theyre not. stories are usually based on religions.

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yeah stories about religion

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21.

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i doubt that.

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LoL. Yeah. Timeless and immortal roots of being and the infinity of the micro and macrocosm are trivial compared to your fiance.

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since you're obviously to dense to catch my point i guess i'll have to be more clear...
possably imagined and unproven timeless and immortal roots of being and the infinity of the micro and macrocosm are trivial compared to the concept and truth of love.

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You get yelled at for watching football, dont you?

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i dont watch football. dont you find watching sports on your 12" black and white tv in your beat up old lazy boy with aa big bag of grease chips and a beer resting on your gigantic gut boring? i dont know i guess i never tried it that way but hey to each his own...
you get yelled at for watching porn, dont you?

Natural Law is definitely not religion. A god may have created it, but it's not that god's religion.

I also believe in the infinite micro and macrocosm. To think that we are the center of anything (beyond this planet) - is arrogant.

Answer my question about the Christian incantation repelling the demon.
___

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Originally posted by Askr:
12" black and white tv in your beat up old lazy boy with aa big bag of grease chips and a beer resting on your gigantic gut

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36" Toshiba, optically cabled to a DA80ES Sony w/ 43" AR towers. Italian dark blue leather reclining love seat, end table - for remote and beer.

[In the voice of Hank Jr.]

ARE YOU READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL?!

As the ghost of Dick Vermeil fades from St. Louis, it is becoming clear that the '99 Superbowl victory was his, as much as anybody's. He has managed to put together an outstanding team in KC - only lacking a QB in Trent Green. Given the 0-3 start, and the new division that they're in, St. Louis will have to make some coaching changes soon, or the team will fall apart to where it can't be fixed. Martz should hand off the play calling chores to the booth upstairs.

I dont watch TV, but trying to make fun of me for being poor is pretty sad and a feeble reach.

User, not personal experience, just something of a family thing.

Anyway....


>>>>natural law isn't a religion its a concept<<<<<

Natural Law is the one thing that has never changed and has crafted and motivated the creation of all things and forms of being since the dawn of time- that sounds a lot to me like god.

>>>> and im sure you wont find many people who would agree that they are one of "your people"<<<<

I dont see how anyone could deny my belonging to a particular socio-biological group. Its just one of those things that are facts and cant be argued.


>>>>men like you are the reason for problems that lead to war and nations of men like you start wars.<<<<

Yep. And beat nations of men that hide behind their wives. They tend to kill the men and take the wives- ah-ha.

>>>>except love which is what they should want in the first place<<<<

Being loved implies the one who loves you would sacrifice things for your safety and well-being. Telling someone you love them while hiding from the effort that will help them is pretty pitiful.

>>>>unless they're gold diggers like yours probably is...<<<<<

I think if I bothered to keep a tally of totally baseless cheap shots that couldnt be more wrong, wed be up to about 11 now.

>>>> but then i dont know you strike me as the trailer trash type... <<<<

12. You are insulting the intelligence of everyone else here at Totse by thinking they or anyone else will fall for your stupid programmed charged bullshit language, throwing around words that get negative reactions with no reasonable basis to actually use them.

>>>>ask her sometime... and if its true well then i pity you, her, and your family.<<<<

For understanding that man has a duty to things other than himself? You feel sorry for the woman I love because she respects and understands my belief that I should serve something with my life or death?

>>>>no it hasn't because like i said natural law isn't a religion.<<<<

Why not?

>>>>yeah stories about religion<<<<<

Obviously. Thats exactly what it means when I say, a story is based on religion, duh.

>>>>i doubt that. (me being 21)<<<<<

13.


>>>>>since you're obviously to dense to catch my point<<<<

14.

>>>>>i guess i'll have to be more clear...
possably imagined and unproven timeless and immortal roots of being and the infinity of the micro and macrocosm are trivial compared to the concept and truth of love.<<<<

You must be whipped hard. Love is for nothing if your people are all dead, agreed?


>>>>>i dont watch football. dont you find watching sports<<<<<

Dont watch sports. 15.

>>>>>on your 12" black and white tv<<<<<

16. And why is it so bad to have a black and white TV?

>>>>> in your beat up old lazy boy<<<<

17.

>>>>> with aa big bag of grease chips<<<<

I hate potato chips too. 18

>>>>>and a beer<<<<<

19. Beer makes me want to vomit. I dont know how one can "acquire" a taste for urine.

>>>> resting on your gigantic gut boring?<<<<

My gut isnt very big. Im pretty fat, but its a generalized, whole body experience.

>>>>
you get yelled at for watching porn, dont you?<<<<

Sure do. For the same reason Id yell at her if I saaw her watching porn.

quote:

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
Natural Law is the one thing that has never changed and has crafted and motivated the creation of all things and forms of being since the dawn of time- that sounds a lot to me like god.

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natural laws is not god nor is it a religion if you had the slightest idea what you were talking about you would know its a concept favored by athiests, not a religion and most certainly not a god.

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I dont see how anyone could deny my belonging to a particular socio-biological group. Its just one of those things that are facts and cant be argued.

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that doesn't mean they are "your people"

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Being loved implies the one who loves you would sacrifice things for your safety and well-being. Telling someone you love them while hiding from the effort that will help them is pretty pitiful.

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no one is hiding. dieing for a cause that in most cases does't directly effect you and those you love is not an effort that will help them but a cause of meaningless and pointless pain with no direct gain to speak of.

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I think if I bothered to keep a tally of totally baseless cheap shots that couldnt be more wrong, wed be up to about 11 now.

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i'm only responding to you, spirit, unless you consider the term "pussyboy" to be a compliment.

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stupid programmed charged

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come on now thats not even a real term. it doesn't mean anything

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Obviously. Thats exactly what it means when I say, a story is based on religion, duh.

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and religious vleiefs are based on those stories. without the stories religions wouldn't exist.

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Love is for nothing if your people are all dead, agreed?

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first, they aren't my people, and second, i dont love them. i love one person. however, unlike you im just enlightened enough to have compasion and understanding for all people. i just dont love them.

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Dont watch sports.

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good for you

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Beer makes me want to vomit. I dont know how one can "acquire" a taste for urine.

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so your saying you've tasted urine so you could make that comparison?

>>>>natural laws is not god nor is it a religion if you had the slightest idea what you were talking about you would know its a concept favored by athiests, not a religion and most certainly not a god.<<<<

It is too. Its the expression of my god. What other than natural law would make sense as God's will? How are you going to tell me what my god is and isnt?

>>>that doesn't mean they are "your people"<<<

Yes it does. Again, cultural and biological facts cant be argued, stop being a dick.

>>>>no one is hiding. dieing for a cause that in most cases does't directly effect you and those you love is not an effort that will help them<<<<<

Obviously Im not speaking of things that dont affect them.

>>>> but a cause of meaningless and pointless pain with no direct gain to speak of. <<<<<

I know. If you live for only a "direct gain", you should be herded onto a frigid plain with the other bovine specimens and slaughtered for food.


>>>>i'm only responding to you, spirit, unless you consider the term "pussyboy" to be a compliment.<<<<

Its quite appropriate when in response to your pansy little ass-kissing of your fiance in response to anything that requires you sleep somewhere other than next to her.


>>>>come on now thats ("stupid programmed charged") not even a real term. it doesn't mean anything<<<<<

Yes it does. I believe that was in response to your baseless insult that said I lived in a trailer. That would make the insult stupid, because its not true, and if it was, it would be a programmed and charged word, used only because it is designed to conjure images of Jerry Springer, and not because of any validity or relevance to this argument. It is thus stupid, programmed, and charged.


>>>>and religious vleiefs are based on those stories. without the stories religions wouldn't exist.<<<<

Which takes us back to my original ascertation, stories aer usually based on religion; to which you replied, "Stories about religion" - which, I will repeat, is exactly what I said.


>>>>first, they aren't my people<<<<

Ok. If youd accept life as an island of a man with connections only to your fiance, I guess not.

>>>>and second, i dont love them. i love one person.<<<<

I didnt say you did love them. I said your love for that one person is kinda stupid when everyone around you is dead, right? Answer the question.

>>>> however, unlike you im just enlightened enough to have compasion and understanding for all people. i just dont love them.<<<<

Then why would you not defend them? What kind of compassion can you have when your attitude is, "theyre not my people" anyway?

>>>>so your saying you've tasted urine so you could make that comparison?<<<<<

Yuck yuck yuck yuck.

quote:

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
[Natural Law] Is the expression of my god. What other than natural law would make sense as God's will?

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I agree with this in principle, but I don't use god and religion as descriptors - because of their connotation of failure.

Something so intrinsincally pure, should have a pure name.

Gods sure sound pure to me.

What god represents the natural world, without any bullshit thrown in?

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Originally posted by user X:
What god represents the natural world, without any bullshit thrown in?

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Umm....uuh...Ra?

Why does it need a name?

And Jupiter is pretty natural. So is Neptune.

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
Why does it need a name?

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Everything needs a name. Imagine you're passing his story down to your son, without being able to use a representative noun.

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Jupiter is pretty natural. So is Neptune.

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The Greek and Roman versions of Jupiter were both more concerned with man's law. Don't know much about Neptune... besides, the inclusion in a pantheon, presumes that it's gods have the charachteristics of human interaction.

Jupiter has no use except when marching to war, and Neptune is only useful when at sea, or digging a well.

And building temples is the most useless of all, when the real temple is the sea, the woods, or your favorite - the battlefield.

User,

That's really deep.

Nox

Liquidsmoke I think you might have a point!

User, you question the signifigance of Temples.

But men cannot build forests, or oceans. Well, technically they can, but I don't think that's what you're talking about.

But temples have signifigance for the community. More than the gods themselves, they're a signifigant part of mortal-divine relations.

Also, they represent the works of humans for the divine.