do wiccans believe their religion has a monapoly on things like magic and paganism? i'm not very clear on the ideas of the whole wiccan thing but it almost seems like it sometimes since most books on the two subjects, not counting magic in the form of illusions and slight of hand and what not, seem to be wiccan related or written by wiccans with wiccan views at the center of it even if the book is about another form of paganism. could someone help to clear this confusion up a little for me?

From what little I know of them and the subject of their beliefs, I think they could care less if they have a "monopoly" or not. My experience has been that they prefer to be left alone.

But maybe I'm wrong.

Nox

its not a monopoly, its just most peagans are wiccans... and what you mean is magick. The K is there to disguinsh it from cheap tricks. I looked into wiccanism when i lost my faith in christianity, "I found" most of it was hooey, but they still have good morals and what-not.

The dictionary definition of "magic" is the art that purports to produce supernatural effects, as with charms, spells, etc. it really shouldnt need the k i should think but anyway thats not important i just get confused when i look at books borrowed from a friend on things like voodoo and meditation and what not and they are all from a wiccan stand point wether they care or not. it just sort of confused me... but your probably right that most pagans are wiccans these days.

Its a good point, that Wiccans probably view themselves as the sole heir to any pagan legacy left by all preChristian religions. You can tell because even though it was originally a Celtic/Nordic hybrid ripoff, now there are books about Chinese Wicca, Roman Wicca, African, etc. I think theyre assholes, but thats just me. (and most other people)

I've found they're mostly teenage girls, hence it is vulgar to use coarse language to describe them.

I am pagan. But all pagans are not wiccans and all witches are not wiccan. And the use of Magick is throughout history, but most by religions whom have deities,and follow a pantheon. (more than one God or Goddess) Mostly follow the Goddess and Her Consort. And there is no monopoly on Paganism. It is the right to choose to belive what ever you want, eclectic mostly a combination of different paths.

>>>>Mostly follow the Goddess and Her Consort. <<<<

No they dont...What the fuck are you talking about? I cant name a civilization that doesnt have a manly war god in the sky as their principle deity.

Middle-Eastern civilizations worshipped a precursor to Jupiter, who threw lightning, lived in the sky, and killed his Godking father to become King of the Gods.

Egyptians chiefly worshipped a sun god who created the world by himself by ejaculating. No female influence there at all, actually.

Celts and North Africans worshipped a similar sun god Bel, a man who lived in the Sky.

Romans, Greeks, Vikings, Mayans, Aztecs, and american Indians all put their principle faith first in masculine gods from the Sky.

The idea that the world was once a flourshing pagan hippie topless paradise with everyone worshipping the Earth is bullshit. I think it was just Neanderthals.

Theyre extinct.

"Don't 'dis' '`da' neanderthals."

Anyway,

We can't blame them for the faults of modern "anthropology." Damn that Frazer.

Actually the Goddesses "consort" was/is called Pan, Cernunnos, Herne the hunter, etc. He is a god with horns who was later ripped off by christians and renamed satan. Another thing, goddess statues are one of the oldest symbols of spiritual power. Ever heard of the Goddess of Lillendorf? That artifacts over twenty thousand years old. Any dumb fuck who really thinks that the world has always been ruled by male deities is probably some christian fundamentalist who still jacks off with a towel to keep free from sin, and their stinking unwashed dickcheese!!!

>>>>Actually the Goddesses "consort" was/is called Pan, Cernunnos, Herne the hunter, etc.<<<<

LoL, what an insiginificant useless deity. He isnt even in most pantheons. THATS what you offer as proof of the primacy and almighty but oversited majestic reign of "the" Goddess? What a second-rate has-been weakling.

>>>> Another thing, goddess statues are one of the oldest symbols of spiritual power. Ever heard of the Goddess of Lillendorf? That artifacts over twenty thousand years old.<<<<<

The purpose of anything 20,000 years old is at best speculation. To find a statue of a pregnant woman and conclude she was the center of an earth-spanning religion is ridiculous. How do you know hunters or warriors didnt carve lil pregnant woman rocks to take with them to remind them of their wives, or for luck for the sake of their children or something? Sounds like something Id do if I were at war.

Of the existing stone-age religions that survived into the modern age (Injuns, Indonesia, etc), an allfather in the sky and allmother in the Earth has been pretty much the rule. Thinking the father was more powerful is likewise the rule. Asking him for the more abstract, higher things, is what tends to happen, and did in the case of every civilization I can think of. People ask the Earth for plants or animals. They ask the sky for revealations, prophecy, wisdom, inspiration, strength, etc.

Whatever, you towel humping fuck.

If you're going to go the route of ad hominem, can you please leave the irrelevant and immature sexually related comments out of it?

LoL, way to put up a fight.

Dude, Im not even a Christian...LoL

You're right. ...I'm so ashamed.

And gay. LoL (carrying the torch from the other thread)

I wonder how much effor i should put into salvaging this potential thread of good ideas.

Here goes

Paganisim in genereal is gaining a mainstream acceptance again (the military has accepted Wicca as an accepted Religion despite some Xtian attitudes from teh higher ups). Wicca is a relativly new Pagan theology, and is becoming more and more based on personal preference than stated dogma or fixed concepts bur rather a loose form of dealign with the natural energies that all religions seem to point to and dividing them into at least 2 or 3 concepts (the God, Goddes and the unity thereof).

I know of Xtian Wiccans who still worship Jesus as their God, Mary as the Goddess (or mother of the God) and the 'Holy Spirit(for lask of other definiton)' as the divine unity therof, they take their actiosn without harm and without prejudice. They see Satan as the negative energy that should ben neutralilzed or removed form teh scene for productive actions to take place.

are stage magicians Wicca, i am assuming that stage magic would attract a pagan audience as well as pagan perfomrers, you never know what people belive, the 1st amendment is an inalienable right that applies to all who live in these borders of this Great Nation, As all memevbers of the human race are created equal, all religions and belifs are created equal.

Peace and Power

Shut up.

quote:

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Originally posted by likuidsmoke:
I wonder how much effor i should put into salvaging this potential thread of good ideas.

despite some Xtian attitudes from teh higher ups).

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Are you implying the military is controlled by xians? Haven't you heard of Michael Aquino? Of course, I expect he hates you too...

quote:

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Wicca is a relativly new Pagan theology, and is becoming more and more based on personal preference than stated dogma or fixed concepts bur rather a loose form of dealign with the natural energies that all religions seem to point to and dividing them into at least 2 or 3 concepts (the God, Goddes and the unity thereof).

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Ugh. Oh well, it never amounted to anything anyway, so not much loss there.

quote:

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I know of Xtian Wiccans who still worship Jesus as their God, Mary as the Goddess (or mother of the God) and the 'Holy Spirit(for lask of other definiton)' as the divine unity therof, they take their actiosn without harm and without prejudice. They see Satan as the negative energy that should ben neutralilzed or removed form teh scene for productive actions to take place.

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So Wicca is purpetuating the xian problem? Yet another reason to destroy it.

are stage magicians Wicca, i am assuming that stage magic would attract a pagan audience as well as pagan perfomrers, you never know what people belive, the 1st amendment is an inalienable right that applies to all who live in these borders of this Great Nation, As all memevbers of the human race are created equal, all religions and belifs are created equal.

Not sure how that fits together, but unfortunately the 1st ammendment doesn't exclude certain people.

Anyway:

1. Humanity isn't a race.
2. Not all humans are created equal.
3. Not all humans are neccessarily created.
4. Not all religions are created.
5. All religions are certainly not equal.

quote:

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Peace and Power

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Interesting combination.

Actaully i was referring to our Great President G.W. Bush (chuckle) and his opinions.

I personally don't prefer xtianity, but Wicca is a way of transversing basic ideas into something more.

And actuallly i think the Masons are incharge of the military and most governments in the world and have assimilated the organized religions into their own idea of a one-world religion (which can get real messy real quick)

Given the nature of the responses is provoked, this is the last post i will make on this thread unless i have a damn good reason to try to provoke some thoughts from our braindead culture, untill then

The eye is upon you. . .

I just took a monster shit. Did you get a good view?

What I want to see is how many of them become born again christians when they start jobs as corporate drones.

LoL what?

Lets not lose sight of the argument that was fun a few weeks ago- Wiccans and wiccan apologists are telling me an earth-based feminine religion of matriarchy that worships a goddess as the primary diety is the natural religious state of man, and was a global first befoer mean fascist patriarchs ruined things. I liked that argument better than whatever stupid crap were throwing around now.

I agree, logic and reasoning bekons to the idea that acceptance and understanding are the way of the future, not prejudice and hate (look what it got us so far). To deny any one religion any recognition is for the individual to make, but when dealing with teh public opinion, you have to see and use the knowledge that is there for you to understand.

[This message has been edited by likuidsmoke (edited 09-26-2002).]