Hello out there in cyberspace!!! First off, if anyone thinks i am wrong in saying anything in this post please tell me.

Now, to me organised religion is, by and large, bullshit. Christianity being the main example of this (once again i am sorry if this offends, and if you are a Christian, fair play. Remember this is only my opinion). In fact, the only 'religion' to come close to my way of thinking is Buddhism, and thats not a religion but a way of life.

I believe that people should be free to be their own religion, believing in their own 'heavens' and 'hells'. I personally believe in reincarnation. Anyone else feel like this????????????

loyal,

First post...Welcome. If you search down the topics on this forum you will find the answers to many of your initial questions. We look forward to discussions with you.

Nox

>>>>I believe that people should be free to be their own religion, believing in their own 'heavens' and 'hells'.<<<<

God forbid two people should agree on that. Then it would be "bullshit."

One post and I hate you already. Is regurgitating slogans and smug looks from Hot Topic supposed to make people look intelligent?

Don't worry about spirit Limpet. He's got a large gerbil stuck in his ass.

Spirit, give him a break. Once he's been in a few more conversations on Totse i'm sure his thoughts will be refined and polished up.

Yo spirit, why are you such a twat anyway?

Spirit, as always, blows. Probably one of the more intelligent users here. Yet, always seeming to suck ass. Why is that? I am not trying to be offensive, but most people here feel the same way. I have said it before, he strong willed here because he is very ineffectual in his real life. Period.

I will have to agree with whoever said Spirit was beginning to go down hill.

Limp, you will see this pattern repeated over and over again. New user or veteran asshole tries to make an argument based on a cute bumper sticker from the mall- I rightly hate and mock them for it- all the herd animals who do/have made the same arguments say, 'What a loser you are' while transparently losing site of the fact that a discussion of religion is being debased to cliches, slogans, and half-wit observations made by some worthless entertainer trying to sound wise.

He tries to slice the throat and disembowel legitimate questions with sarcasm, cynicism, and wit.

Spirit, how many times are you going to use that argument? You do realize it's a double edged sword?

As long as people come here and try to act smart by spitting out dumb shit that 9th graders wear on their back-packs, I will use the argument. I'm not the one being a fuckin idiot.

Perhaps some people are just new to this kind of thought.
I remember about a year ago when i first became interested in spirituality. I would have probably found this question a good one, but as time goe on and you learn more, your questions become more deep and original.
Spirit you think you know so much. I'd hate to have you as a father.

Because I would laugh at my son for thinking himself intelligent because he can vomit sayings meant to sell patches?

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Originally posted by syndicalist:
Spirit, as always, blows. Probably one of the more intelligent users here. Yet, always seeming to suck ass. Why is that?

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Perhaps ... Attention seeking behaviour? Maybe arrogance? or Ignorance? But probably just second rate herbs! LOL.

This post seems to have become a knockers forum, but hey, why not? Let's all just have a good old mindgame and ignore Limpet's attempt at communication. Poor as it may be, the questions are always the same for every generation. Who are we? and Why am I here? We all think the old fogeys know nothing so discard all their experience and wisdom.

The ancients were perhaps far more advanced spiritually and intellectually - the Australian indigienous people lived here for tens of thousands of years without destroying the place or breeding a generation of sick young uns. They did not build prisons cause they did not need them, and no fences!

Limpet, why is it that you feel the need to lump all religion together and stereotype it all as 'bullshit'?
Have you learned all aspects of every religion?


[This message has been edited by redzed (edited 09-06-2002).]

I think Spirit scared him off.
Well done Spirit!

redzed,

Great post.

Nox

>>>The ancients were perhaps far more advanced spiritually and intellectually - the Australian indigienous people lived here for tens of thousands of years without destroying the place or breeding a generation of sick young uns. They did not build prisons cause they did not need them, and no fences!<<<<

They also didnt build a wheel, and until the 50's had no idea sex had to do with conception. Chimps dont breed generations of worthlessness, or build fences, are they more enlightened than mankind? Aboriginal Australians are more primitive than Africans.

I do agree, however, that other ancient people were infinitely more advanced in matters of spirit than we are. Not fuckin austroloids with thick and burly browridges like homo erectus though, comeon.

Hello all limpet haters!
<Especially Spirit>
I see that my post brought out the asshole 'veteran' on the board. I honestly dont mean to be knocking off '9th grade' patches (Perhaps because i do not live in America). However, I see that my post was flawed, and i realise that some people took offence at having their religion called 'bull-shit'. I merely meant that the corporisation of major world religions (and indeed incresingly smaller ones) has destroyed any meaning they may have once had.

Feel free to comment monsieur 'veteran'.

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:

I do agree, however, that other ancient people were infinitely more advanced in matters of spirit than we are.

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Well, if you knew nothing about anything you'd probably come up with some pretty crazy theories also, and everyone would go along with them.

[This message has been edited by Bogey Man (edited 09-06-2002).]

Just to troll Defiant:


"Not "Alice in Wonderland", "Through the Looking Glass". Now that poem the walrus and the carpenter? That's an indictment of organized religion. The walrus with his girth and good nature, he obviously represents Buddha or with his tusks, the Hindu elephant God lord Genesha. That takes care of your eastern religions. Now the carpenter, which is an obvious reference to Jesus Christ, who was raised a carpenters son, he represents the western religions.

Now in the poem, what do they do? what do they do? They dupe all these oysters into following them and proceed to shuck and devourer these creatures en masse. Now I don't know what it says to you, but to me it says that following these faiths based on mythological figures insures the destruction of ones inner being. Organized religion destroys who we are by inhibiting our actions, by inhibiting our decisions, out of fear of an intangible father figure who shakes a finger at us from 1000 years ago, saying do it or, or I'll fucking spank you!"

-Mat Damon, Dogma

Brilliant quotes Dark.

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They also didnt build a wheel, and until the 50's had no idea sex had to do with conception. Chimps dont breed generations of worthlessness, or build fences, are they more enlightened than mankind? Aboriginal Australians are more primitive than Africans.

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Now that bit made me laugh, was watching an aboriginal leader once who was assailed with the wheel thing and he said so dryly and matter of fact "wheel, what did we want with the wheel? We walked everywhere!
Ha, laughed I almost split, it was such an insight, their culture is so different to ours, they did not want the tech!

They were happy, living in a garden of eden!

Met a guy from Minnieapolis, Minnesota(???) once on a rock shelf overlooking a waterfall, gorge and river of the clearest purest water, overhung with a fantastic canopy of rainforest majesty, sunbaking on the rocks in front of us were a pair of bare-breasted nymphs of stunning dimension. This dude dressed like a typical tourist just exclaimed "you people are living in paradise"! Could only agree as i headed off for another trip over the waterfall - yeehah! This is home to many families of aboriginal people, they are the most amazing people, check out their art!

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I do agree, however, that other ancient people were infinitely more advanced in matters of spirit than we are. Not fuckin austroloids with thick and burly browridges like homo erectus though, comeon.

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Guess that's to be expected from a declared nazi! Hey spirit are you six feet tall, blue eyes, blonde hair perhaps? Master race? Hahhahahahahahahah!

Ignorance man that's what it must be, pure and simple ignorance! Cause if you knew anything about the aboriginal people you would know they are every bit as intelligent as any!

I don't think he's a Nazi, but I can see that it's easy to make that false distinction. I think that when he dreams of the sound of boots marching on pavement, he's on the reviewing platform.

He's got a few really fucked up ideas rolling around in his head, but most of his posts, have a raw truth about them. And they're entertaining, because the raw truth is usually pretty goddamn funny.

>>>>
Now that bit made me laugh, was watching an aboriginal leader once who was assailed with the wheel thing and he said so dryly and matter of fact "wheel, what did we want with the wheel? We walked everywhere!<<<<

It would have helped when people with one could travel from one end of his landmass to the other in a few days, killing all his people.

>>>>Ha, laughed I almost split, it was such an insight, their culture is so different to ours<<<<

I know. Theirs is useless.

>>>They were happy, living in a garden of eden!<<<

Did you know the men once a month wade into the water and cut their dick with a sea shell, infecting it and making it useless for a week or so, to simulate menstruation? I wish I lived in paradise too...

>>>>>Met a guy from Minnieapolis, Minnesota(???) once on a rock shelf overlooking a waterfall, gorge and river of the clearest purest water, overhung with a fantastic canopy of rainforest majesty, sunbaking on the rocks in front of us were a pair of bare-breasted nymphs of stunning dimension.<<<<

Austroloidal nymphs? Lol, with a head squater than a half deflated basketball and a jaw similar to baboons.

>>>>This dude dressed like a typical tourist just exclaimed "you people are living in paradise"! Could only agree as i headed off for another trip over the waterfall - yeehah!<<<<<

Sabbath styled paradises where inactivity and nothing define perfection are the opposite of what I consider ideal.

>>>Guess that's to be expected from a declared nazi!<<<<

LoL, declared.

>>>>Hey spirit are you six feet tall<<<<

5'11"

>>>>blue eyes<<<<

Brown.

>>>>blonde hair<<<<

Brown.

>>>>Master race? <<<<

Slave race Dinaric with Mediterannean admixture.

>>>> Cause if you knew anything about the aboriginal people you would know they are every bit as intelligent as any!<<<<

And to prove this statement we have thousands of years of rich history of...nothing.

I am 6' exact, with blonde hair and blue eyes, do I win a prize? My middle name is Rudolf, does that give me anything too?

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Originally posted by malaria:
I am 6' exact, with blonde hair and blue eyes, do I win a prize? My middle name is Rudolf, does that give me anything too?

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Thanks for the smilie face, obviously no offence intended to 6ft, blue eyes, blonde hair! Me: 183cm Green/Blue eyes, grey hair. LOL

And as for Defiant Spirit 22, lemme recall. kicked off the .. pagan website, banned as Defiant, rides on as Spirit, yeah you have some marvellous insights and; are so full of torro faeces that one would need an excavator and a ten ton truck to dispose of it.

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Nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care!

(OZ expression - Author unknown)

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
[B]>>>>
[QUOTE]It would have helped when people with one could travel from one end of his landmass to the other in a few days, killing all his people.

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Kakadu in the Northern Territory is still aboriginal land, always has been, and at present always will be. If you want to visit some areas of Kakadu you will need a permit from the Aboriginal Council, an OZ Guv one is not enough.

There are said to have been over 500 different nations of indigenous peoples in OZ. Some of them saw it as in their best interests to co-operate with the europeans, as in America where many of the indigenous peoples entered nto treaties - including defence. Many aboriginal people fought alongside europeans in battles to save their lives from opression, our history is replete with accounts of the many mighty aboriginal warriors, those of the ancient past thru the capitalist expansion, and in the big one.

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>>>>, their culture is so different to ours<<<<

I know. Theirs is useless.

>>>They were happy, living in a garden of eden!<<<

Did you know the men once a month wade into the water and cut their dick with a sea shell, infecting it and making it useless for a week or so, to simulate menstruation? I wish I lived in paradise too...

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Bro there were 500 different nations! Just as many of the other world cultures have bizarre rituals - circumcision for example- some of them were cannibals. A tribe from North Queensland - home country - were reputed to capture the chinese working the goldfields, break their limbs then leave them hanging by their heels till ready for eating. Apparentlly they preferred the vegetable and rice eating chinese flesh to the salted beef taste of the europeans! LOL

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>>>>>sunbaking on the rocks in front of us were a pair of bare-breasted nymphs of stunning dimension.<<<<

Austroloidal nymphs? Lol, with a head squater than a half deflated basketball and a jaw similar to baboons.

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One was a blonde hair caucasian, the other looked southern european, olive skin dark wavy hair, built like a panther.

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Sabbath styled paradises where inactivity and nothing define perfection are the opposite of what I consider ideal.

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Care to enlighten us on your ideal?

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And to prove this statement we have thousands of years of rich history of...nothing.

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Ignorance it is!

To understand any people it helps to actually know some personally, this is the beginning of any honest search for truth. The truth of their history is in their present. We have aboriginal people succeeding in every arena of life and business, they are obvious examples of the intelligence and ability of the aboriginal peoples.

Working back from the present as we look into our recent history we see how many great things the aboriginal people have contributed to our nation. in fact many have wondered if this nation would exist as it does today without the sacrifice, help and co-operation of so many indigenous people.

Sacrifice yes! It's not a dirty word, our soldiers including aboriginal people fought and died in defence of this country when the massive Japanese forces approached via New Guinea. Not many outside of OZ would know of the history of those grim battles, but the aboriginal soldiers were right there alongside their european brothers fighting with honour, skill, and intelligence - and many times dying for the freedom of their nation, families, and friends!

And prior to the war, our pioneers really struggled to survive in many parts of this land where the native people thrived. Burke and Wills were a couple of early exploresr who set out to traverse Australia from south to north and back. Totally unknown country at the time, never before seen by europeans a journey of something like 4 or 5 thousand miles. On horseback these adventurous fellows ventured into the wilderness they perished on the return journey in an area were the antives were living no problem. Burke and Wills ran out of food that is the european type of food. They saw that the natives used a berry growing plentifully in the area and ate this. Apparently it is all in the preperation, these berries contained a chemical that leached all the B vitamins from the body and accelerates the effect of malnourishment. Burke and Wills perished, with all their advanced europeann knowledge they could not survive where the indigenous people thrived.

It's knowledge, intelligence may be nothing more than survival instinct, and knowledge of how to survive is certainly a hallmark of the indigenous survivors of massacres, skullduggery and attempted genocide on both sides of the Pacific. The aboriginal people knew something Burke and Wills did not, they knew how to remove the dangerous chemicals, not only of this particular food but many others throughout OZ. How did they come by this intricate understanding of bio-chemistry?

Somewhere between 30 - 50 thousand years the geological record of indigenous australians, their Dreamtime tells of a time in the distant past where mankind developed all of this technology as we see today, and it turned into disaster - sound familiar?

Their culture their 'rich' history is one of a spiritual life spent living as one with Mother earth, caring for their environment so it would survive for future generations, their vibrant spiritual beliefs included a kind of reincarnation, they believe the pnuema or soul we now have was once another persons and will one day be born again into another livng being, but that being will not be the same person as we are now.

Pretty good incentive to keep the simple hunter gatherer lifestyle, their legends spoke of the futility and dangers of technology and they believed they would be continually reborn into this life. They saw time not as linear like european culture, but like a ripple on a pool, expanding into infinity. Some are practitioners of arts we would call magic or witchcraft, some are able to tell of events a great distance away through perhaps a kind of mind transference.

They had prophecies too, one story of an early adventurer who spent some time as a police officer in the Northern Territory, concerns the story of a young missionary and his wife who came ot Kakadu to convert the natives. The description of them as they arrived was amazing considering the wilderness they were entering, but apparently very well equipped with all the latest in camping gear etc. The adventure/cop was called to investigate the disappearance of the missionary, he went there fearing the fierce locals had murdered him, to find that he had last beeb seen heading off up a the local mountain. Ad/cop follows and finds his body crumpled at the base of the cliffs, as he and his aboriginal tracker are standing there pondering the missionaries last moments, a large group of local indigenous arrive with a litter. Seems they had a legend of a holy man who would one day visit the mountain(a sacred site) and die upon it!

Anyway I digress,

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However, I see that my post was flawed, and i realise that some people took offence at having their religion called 'bull-shit'. I merely meant that the corporisation of major world religions (and indeed incresingly smaller ones) has destroyed any meaning they may have once had.

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No offence taken here, i agree with the latter part of your statement there is a story of a guru in the US i think who was the subject of the adulation of a large group/religion that had developed a beleif that there was an new great teacher coming to give mankind a vital key to our future. They chose this man as the fulfillment of their prophecy and installed him as the head of their by now large and growing congregation. Guru convened a meeting and disolved the organisation. He said they had chosen him as their prophet that they believed he had an essential truth for humanity. Then he said words to the effect that his message was that organisations such as theirs were finished with. That was the reason for closing down his congregation, his message could not be clearer. The organisation becomes the focus of the followers minds and in time takes over and becomes their God.

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Originally posted by redzed:
Burke and Wills perished, with all their advanced europeann knowledge they could not survive where the indigenous people thrived.

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...so if an abo gets crushed by a team of horses, while crossing a London street, that makes european civilization superior?

If the beautiful women were European, why are you citing their beauty like it redeems Aborigines?

Aboriginal 'nations' survive out of the pity and mercy of the British.

There is no redeeming quality about them.

Their cultural achievements are on par with New York water rats or congo simians. That is not admirable.

Obviously the rest of the world has bizarre and repugnant practices, but thats exactly why its stupid to consider their way of life akin to paradise.

Sunbathing and jumping in waterfalls is a paradise for oxen and children. I guess Im not enlightened enough to demand a little more than nothing from my life.

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
If the beautiful women were European, why are you citing their beauty like it redeems Aborigines?

Aboriginal 'nations' survive out of the pity and mercy of the British.

There is no redeeming quality about them.

Their cultural achievements are on par with New York water rats or congo simians. That is not admirable.

Obviously the rest of the world has bizarre and repugnant practices, but thats exactly why its stupid to consider their way of life akin to paradise.

Sunbathing and jumping in waterfalls is a paradise for oxen and children. I guess Im not enlightened enough to demand a little more than nothing from my life.

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Ever so charming in your egocentric and judgemental cynicism. Are you and yours then the pinnacle of evolution?

Technology itself has done many good things, but has also done many bad things for the cultures which have embraced it. Technology has made us fat, lazy, and stupid by doing for us "easier" what we can do for ourselves without it. It has made us overpopulace and has generated plagues where only a small epidemic would have bloomed and died. It has born the greatest of tragedies and aberrations of humanity as it enabled madmen to work their aims upon more people. It has and will continue to destroy the very vital ecosystem which we depend on for survival. Those who are adherents of technology turn to it for answers "Maybe the space program can save us when we use up our planet"...slaves...weakened cultures of slaves to their own tools. How many people of the "civilized" cultures of the world could live as the aboriginies do if it were required?...not enough. You think technology makes you a man (or woman)? You are a fool. Do not let the tool beguile your sense of truth. A society that cannot survive it's own technology's cost is far weaker than one who realizes that dread cost and avoids the purchase.

Yes I use technology, but I don't count it as the measure of my worth. I work with the tools at hand, no matter what they are. But to condescend to another culture for their "lack of technology" is the height of ignorance and hubris. That culture has existed for centuries in a land you wouldn't survive a week in.

They didnt survive a week when europeans didnt want them to.

Bacteria survive on the bottom of the Atlantic, are they better people than me too?

Why do you quote an entire post, especially when it follows the original, and then make a singular and unrelated comment?

The skill of survival, in a foreign environment, is a feat ONLY when it is mastered for multiple environments. When bushmen can survive (unassisted) in the harsh parts of the civilized world, then they've accomplished something.

And regarding technology vs survival; I'll bet I can go on-line and find just about all the survival skills I would need for a 2 month hunting trip in the aussie bush. Furthermore, I could buy any specialized gear that I might need, and my fucking airline tickets; on-line. I would like to see one of them do this, for a trip to my city - to test his survival skills.

Perpetual simplicity is not a redeeming quality for a culture.

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
If the beautiful women were European, why are you citing their beauty like it redeems Aborigines?

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Read the post spirit, i was referring to their living conditions, and relating an experience as to just how good it is. Like most 'modern' people i am dependent and somewhat addicted to technology, but the world the aboriginal people lived in was entirely satisfying for them.

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Aboriginal 'nations' survive out of the pity and mercy of the British.

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The brits, my arse! Had very little to do with the british race - pure and simple capitalism and empire building. Fact is the murderous hypocrites tried very hard to exterminate the aborigines, but they failed, just as they failed in their oppression in America. The aboriginal race has survived and is looking stronger all the time, what scares the hell out of the capitalists is that now they have learned british law, they are using it against the oppressors and have already won many victories including exposing the fiction of terra nullius. This means the High Court here has declared that as a matter of English/OZ law the land belongs to the indigenous people. In the future we may well see the indigenous people reclaim all the lands stolen from them.

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There is no redeeming quality about them.

Their cultural achievements are on par with New York water rats or congo simians. That is not admirable.

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The more you post the more you display your ignorance!

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Obviously the rest of the world has bizarre and repugnant practices, but thats exactly why its stupid to consider their way of life akin to paradise.

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Read the post instead of acting like an ignoramus, there were over 500 different nations with differing cultural practices, yet you stereotype as all the same.

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Sunbathing and jumping in waterfalls is a paradise for oxen and children. I guess Im not enlightened enough to demand a little more than nothing from my life.

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You rarely if ever have anything positive to say, seems you would not recognise paradise if it leapt up and bit you on the ass!

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
They didnt survive a week when europeans didnt want them to.

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So you rate the ability to commit genocide as the defining factor in a society's evolutionary progress or worth to the world?

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Originally posted by user X:
Why do you quote an entire post, especially when it follows the original, and then make a singular and unrelated comment?

The skill of survival, in a foreign environment, is a feat ONLY when it is mastered for multiple environments. When bushmen can survive (unassisted) in the harsh parts of the civilized world, then they've accomplished something.

And regarding technology vs survival; I'll bet I can go on-line and find just about all the survival skills I would need for a 2 month hunting trip in the aussie bush. Furthermore, I could buy any specialized gear that I might need, and my fucking airline tickets; on-line. I would like to see one of them do this, for a trip to my city - to test his survival skills.

Perpetual simplicity is not a redeeming quality for a culture.

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I quote as much as is relevent, and until the post is added to the threat one cannot be sure they will immediately follow the post they are replying to, as others could be posting and hit "submit" before you do.

As for surviving "unassisted" If you take any tools or knowledge with you that you skimmed off of the internet, that counts as being assisted. I'd give a bushman with a decent set of "indigenous" clothes (LA streetwear) a higher survival rate in south central LA's hotspots than I would give you running around the bushlands naked with a spear.

What qualifies you to judge the proper redeeming qualities of a culture? Would it be your overwhelming sense of ethno-superiority in which the standards by which cultures are judged are those that look favoribly upon your own? If that's the case, there's nothing wrong with that, as long as you bear in mind that to shut your eyes to the faults of that same culture is to promote it's decay and failure.

I really don't think any culture is "better" than another. They all have their problems and faults, some more than others. However it seems to be a general trend that the more faults there are in a culture, the more positive aspects there are to balance it out. It's not a matter of which is "better"...it's a matter of which is better for YOU. As long as you are happy with your own culture, yay for you. But it is quite horribly misguided to pass judgement so readily upon a culture you don't know or understand. The simple fact that most of the modern medicines we use these days came from information taken from old cures from the various "perpetually simple" indigenous peoples of the world's "primitive" cultures speaks highly of their achievments. You should thank the Primitives for your medical cures rather than passing condemnation for their "lack of contribution".

Edit: fixed a sentence fragment.

[This message has been edited by ChaosWyrm (edited 09-10-2002).]

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Originally posted by ChaosWyrm:
As for surviving "unassisted" If you take any tools or knowledge with you that you skimmed off of the internet, that counts as being assisted.

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No, that's cultural collaboration, and it is an example of technology's importance in civilization. The bushman is allowed to query his fellow tribesman regarding his trip as well. The "unassisted" part means that we get no help in the foreign environment.

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...you running around the bushlands naked with a spear.

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Why would I take a spear when I can take a 7mm? Again, technology. As far as being naked, I would probably wear shorts - to keep my balls from flopping around, and $200 boots.

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What qualifies you to judge the proper redeeming qualities of a culture?

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Why do my opinions need to be qualified? Who qualifies yours?

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Would it be your overwhelming sense of ethno-superiority in which the standards by which cultures are judged are those that look favoribly upon your own?

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Yeah, sure... I'll be using the standards created by my culture.

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I really don't think any culture is "better" than another...

They all have their problems and faults, some more than others.

However it seems to be a general trend that the more faults there are in a culture, the more positive aspects there are to balance it out..

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I can't imagine many "problems" in aborigine culture, simple as it is... This would mean then the western cultures have more "positive aspects" because we create a shit-load of problems for ourselves.

You made a lot of presumptions regarding my opinion of abo culture. Since they aren't a burden on my culture's resources, and they don't immigrate to my country, I really just see them as an evolutionary curiosity. My only point here is; your survival analogy is meaningless.

...and the thing about quoting an entire post. It requires more effort to read it, when the pertinent shit has to be located by the reader.

Im a you