Reincarnation? The christian bible does not believe in it. I believe in it, though I know very little about it. Astrial projection is possible, I've seen it done..
I believe in some witchcraft but not all. I study every aspect of religions. Does anyone know anything about Reincarnation?

I do! Or at least i think i do.

I believe that we are all souls that are using our current bodies as 'carriages' or 'tools' with which to make our way back to god. We spend our time in bodies to 'experience', and it's through this experience that we learn more and more about 'truth', which inevitably leads us back to god. Therefore we continue to travel from body to body until we have reached our true potential which is when we rejoin God.
This is why there is no need for a hell, because people that we consider evil, are people who have young souls and have a long way to go before rejoining god. What we call 'Evil' is only a result of an ignorance of Gods truths, but as the soul progresses it learns more and more of Gods truths and eventually gains wisdom akin to jesus/ buddah/ Ghandi etc

Sounds a bit like "Heaven's gate," but I went to their site a long time ago, so I could be mistaken.

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Originally posted by Evil Duckiez:
Does anyone know anything about Reincarnation?

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I don't know for sure i can only pass on my observations from life, i have seven children, five were homebirths and two in a hospital. Delivered everyone myself, the first without any assistance. On every occasion, catching those newborn babies, i see what looks like an old person, the best case for reincarnation that one could possibly imagine.

But, they change very quickly, in minutes, their features change, and having observed this thru seven, by the last few i was beginning to take note!

The first was born with her hand raised beside her head in a fist with a cry of triumph after a very difficult labour.
The second came out like a bullet, like catching a football.
The third cried his eyes out, he was not happy to be here!
The fourth was bloody, what a mess, and big, talk about a big seed.
The fifth born upside down as his mum squatted, still in his unbroken water sac, unreal! His arms were crossed over his chest and he had this absolute look of serenity.
The sixth, had mucus stuck up his nose, but the first thing he did was grab his mums hand - i can still see the look of concentration on his face as he refrained from breathing until his airways were cleaned. The seventh, I had to fight off a bossy midwife and I learned how much men have sacrificed to the gods of medicine. By the time i was able to observe his face he had already changed, and yet at the age now of three, this one has the sharpest most enquiring mind of any.

How did these babies know? How is it they are so aware?

So to my mind the case for reincarnation is far from closed, and the christian bible speaks of resurrection, surely another term for reincarnation?

And to my mind the subject of before life is as interesting as after life. How many have a memory from before birth, surely that is as fascinating as afterlife. I have a memory, i was as a small child, being instructed by a great entity that i must enter this world - I remember not being to happy about it.


And lots of clear memories from very early on, including circumcision(bastards!), being a baby in a cot, sucking on mothers tit etc. Like my own children I have often wondered how was i so aware at such an early age, where does the memory from before life come from. I have never been a believer in reincarnation, past lives etc, and yet i could not deny the possibility.

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Originally posted by Beany:
...as the soul progresses it learns more and more of Gods truths and eventually gains wisdom akin to jesus/ buddah/ Ghandi etc

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I don't know Beany, I've only known a handful of people in my life, that I would consider nearing godness.

Do all the "souls" live their lives at the same time? In the same place? because the interaction; all these fools working on their godliness, gets really comical at times.

Your question about reincarnation is too broad.

Are you talking about reincarnation of the body you now live in? I doubt it. However, St. John in the Book of the Revelation of St. John (the world's first written record of an LSD trip) refered to the actual reincarnation of human bodies on Judgement Day.

If you are talking about your soul/life spirit/energy/et al being reincarnated, that is a different question. Yes, I believe that your soul/life spirit/energy/et al does exist past the death of the body. Why? Within our brain, messages are sent via electrical impulses...aka energy. The Law of Conservation of Energy tells us that energy is neither created nor destroyed. Our entire conscious being is electrical energy. Upon death of the body, this energy departs the body and goes forth. Where to? Another body...and not necessarily right away. There's more, but enough for now.

Nox

Nox, why do you mention that Revelation was an LSD trip? I was under the opinion that it was more of an AP adventure,
Something a bit closer tho, in Revelation it says "He who overcomes I will make a pillar in the house of my Father *and he will go out no more*" or something very similar, I'm not sure about the first part, but this could be a reference to reincarnation, and fits with the Eastern versions of reaching ultimate state, whatever you want to call it.
Also one of the Gosples mentions that Jesus says that John the Baptist and Elisa(I think) are one and the same, this could also be a reference to reincarnation in Christianity, I think they're are others aswell, but of course there is a lot dispute of the issue, many of the early Christians did believe in reincarnation, which I think was more acaine to the Plationic version than the Eastern one, but they're still based on the same principles, I sure it's Platonic, but I might be wrong, somebody will be able to correct me I'm sure, these we're thrown out however when it became "The Holy Roman Empire"

There's a story about Shelly in which he and a friend were walking through a field in a area that neither had ever been before, and Shelly remarked that there would be a windmill over the next hill, which they're was, I'm not sure whether he claimed this to be a memory of a past life, whether he just "knew" or what, just that it happened,
I guess he could be lying about not knowing, it could have been an early childhood memory, a guess on Shelly's part (that he ran with), we can't realy know I suppose, but I've heard many stories about this kind of thing before, which couldn't be put down to any sort of memory from this incarnation, usualy to do with small children, some who go to see their previous families, these seem unlikely to be intentionaly misleading, but agian who knows,

[This message has been edited by evolove (edited 09-04-2002).]

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Originally posted by evolove:
Nox, why do you mention that Revelation was an LSD trip?

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Because Johnny was on more than alcohol to write that. And your example was yet another one where the Bible talks about physical reincarnation of the body.

Nox

I dont like the idea that every intelligent creature with a soul eventually joins god. It leaves no room for evil, and no room for responsibility. I think reincarnation is an evolution to one of two opposites, so that if you want to be a bad motherfucker, you will just get better at it as lifes go by until you are furthest from good. I dont see why having wisdom implies benevolence.

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Originally posted by Nox:
Our entire conscious being is electrical energy. Upon death of the body, this energy departs the body and goes forth.

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Electrical energy, as we can measure it in the brain, doesn't just "go forth", it ceases to be generated when the body dies and stops converting calories.

Just because something consumes or generates electrical energy, doesn't mean it has a soul. I don't think my toaster is aspiring for a better life as a blender.

And souls in animals would be pointless because they don't have the emotions that affect soul.

energy can neither be created nor destroyed it can only change forms.

they're probably looking for the wrong TYPE of energy.

i don't believe in reincarnation though, through the properties of the first statement it is quite probable that the matter in my body will one day end being part of another body. but will they recall my life, or will i be them, but shouldn't i be a part of all those who ended up with what my body came to be.

reincarnation just doesn't make sense.

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Originally posted by Evil Duckiez:
Does anyone know anything about Reincarnation?

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I was attending a seminar recently to do with work, and at a break was talking with one of the others(never met him before or since. He was telling me of a recent trip home to Britain, they took their son who is about 5(born and raised in Oz) with them.

Out of the blue he tells methat on their travels they visited a cathedral and soon after they entered their son began to get agitated and demanding to see 'the monkeys'.

They had no idea of what he was talking, and were completely at a loss to understand what he was on about. Next thing an old fat round lady entered the room and this boy ran straight to her(never met her before and shy around strangers) and clung on to her and asked her to show him the monkeys. She looked at the concerned parents and said it's alright, and proceeded to take the boy out of the main cathedral into a side chapel.

There in the chapel was a large chair/throne with monkeys carved on it, the boy ran up to the chair and sat on, seemingly at home in a familiar chair.

Five year old, never been to Britain, goes into cathedral where none of the family has been, demands to see the monkeys, meets an old lady he seems to know but the parents don't. And is shown to a chair with carved monkeys which he seems familiar with. Fact is often stranger than fiction!

Nox, I still don't think that it was bought on by any sort of unnatural chemicals at least,
Why do you say "physical" reincarnation, I've never heard that expression before, only reincarnation of spirit or soul, is there a difference, how could somebody pull up all the atoms of his previous body, even if in a modified form?

What is it that keeps the energy of the mind "together" when somebody is astraly projecting? Maybe for the same reasons/causes it's keep together after death,

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Originally posted by evolove:
Nox, I still don't think that it was bought on by any sort of unnatural chemicals at least,

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I say that because of some of the descriptions I have read from people experiencing LSD induced hallucinations. Example, the whole four-horsemen story reeks with the parallel.

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Originally posted by evolove:
Why do you say "physical" reincarnation, I've never heard that expression before, only reincarnation of spirit or soul, is there a difference, how could somebody pull up all the atoms of his previous body, even if in a modified form?

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This also comes from Johnnys book where on the Day of Judgement, the dead shall rise from their graves. The obvious implication is that the dead bodies will become alive and exit the grave. Remember the context of the time that this was written, the standard Roman funerary custom was creamation. The early Christians buried the bodies (many in the Roman catacombs) in anxious anticipation of Christs speedy return.

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Originally posted by evolove:
What is it that keeps the energy of the mind "together" when somebody is astraly projecting? Maybe for the same reasons/causes it's keep together after death,

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Good question. That hadn't occured to me before. Magic I guess.

Nox

I love magic

I've read some people sugjested that something like, if not, majic mushrooms were used by the early church fathers, but I'm not realy one for this idea, but your right there are many parrallels in such states of consciousness, and that of visons bought on by purely spiritual means,
I think revelations is a doctorine on the alchemy of spiritual progressions, cleansing of fire and brimstone to open a new state of concsiousness, but I'm split on whether or not it also has literal applications, things like the mark of the beast seem to becomming a reality, ie. microchips under the skin, as for the six,six,six part, I've got no idea how that would fit, and it would definately be a PR pot hole, which is basicly it

Do you think tho that it was meant the bodies would litteraly come to life?
I always thought it was a metaphorical thing, maybe fundamentalist were the same then as they are today? Hell I don't know,

You hit it on the head. The fundamentalists really do believe that the dead bodies will come alive. This may sound tacky, but allegorical thinking is something that fundamentalists give lip-service to but not real philosophical thought and/or meaning. They get so caught up in the literal meaning that any true metaphor goes over their head. Example, you talked about the mark of the beast. Fundamentalists truly expect to see the triple 6. A triple 4 won't get it. The other thing they don't get is the differences of translation...using one synonym instead of another. Then the absolute value of the sentence/word is significantly altered by which synonym you use...my favorite example, Thou shalt not kill...kill was the word used by the KJV translator. Murder is the better word to use when translating. A world of difference between the two words.

Nox

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Originally posted by IzzyReele:
...shouldn't i be a part of all those who ended up with what my body came to be.

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The answer is: what are you now? You're made of all those that went before you, so how much influence or cognizance do they have in your body?