If one sits down to logically think about it, there is mathematic proof that there cannot be an ALL powerful being. If I have one random object, and I come across another random object, no matter what these objects may be, nothing can increase the amount of what I have. More simply, 1+1 cannot equal 3. It is impossible, period. Therefore there can be no truth in saying that God ( If there is such a being )is omnipotent. Thank you for your time.

[This message has been edited by TheGreatNothing (edited 02-01-2002).]

The only problem is that the theory says god is all powerfull.

power -> infinity

If god's power is infinite or approaching infinite, adding one to infinity is infinity. Adding any finite number to infinity yeilds infinity. You just can't treat infinity like any finite number. You will see this when you take calculus.

And just to let you know i don't believe in god, but all in the same your math and reasoning are flawed.

Ah, a witty remark indeed! Soullace, it seems that I have improperly worded my statement. I was merely trying to emphasize that no matter what, 1+1 cannot equal anything other than two. Is immeasurable = to infinity? These are questions that I must have answered. Any more input will be appreciated.

[This message has been edited by TheGreatNothing (edited 02-01-2002).]

No insult intended, but you think too small.

Let's look at this, shall we?

1.) 1+1=2. That's reality, right? Right.

2.) [Assuming he exists] God is all-powerful, right? Right.

The answer is simple: to make 1+1 equal anything other than two, all he need do is change reality. Simple, right? All-powerful has the ability to change reality, inclusive.

And besides that, math is only an invention of man to help describe the world around him [Boy am I going to hear arguments about this!]. In fact, several years ago I can across something in Omni [a great magazine for those too young to remember it] that talked about a mathematician who wrote out a multi [multi] page proof that actually proved that 1+1 did not equal 2. There's more about how math is but an invention and what not, but anything more I say would be in ignorance and I like to try and avoid such situations, if I can help it. Anyone interested enough could find what I'm talking about - it's not that obscure a thing [at least not in academic circles].

maybe i am wrong, but isnt mathmatics our way of explaining the universe, not just the world? Its really the only thing we have right now that explains why things are the way they are, excluding saying "O YA... UH GOD MADE THAT TOO"

Its not as simple as 1+1=2 because the 1 is a given statement, we just take it for the valuse that has been assigned to it.

You believe that 1 is equivalent to the minimum quantity of a given thing you can have while actually possessing it. The world works with science and logic but they only apply in reality, in this dimension, and within finite space.

The problem with proving god is way deeper than 1+1. The issue is wether we live in a "open system" or "closed system" mathematicly speaking.

Any glass bead game players?

Is it (infinity + one) or (one + one) or what?

Decide beforehand what you like, if you are to ask what you like.

I'm suprised someone else read Hesse Magister Ludi.

I'm suprised someone else read Magister Ludi.

how does that disprove god,

that just says that maybe god isn't all-powerful.

and there is one flaw with your theory.

what if you come across another object?

and holy shit i agree with soullace!

dark magneto made another point i was going to make.

it's the same faulty reasoning the moon hoaxers.

moon hoaxers apply the physics of world with an atmosphere and gravity to one without.

our sky would be black and starless during the day as well if we had no atmosphere.

nay-sayers apply the physics of this universe to that which lies beyond as well, when any physicist will tell you that at the point of any singularity all that we know becomes a lie.

"and holy shit i agree with soullace!"

lol! rare isn't it?

Most of our laws of physics rely on time-space. A singularity sucks up time-space into a single point. Simply meaning we can't apply our laws to it.

This is true for the concept of god. The reason why we can't prove or disprove him is because the concept of him is infinite and we can't apply any rational thought to him. We as humans can't _truly_ understand infinity.

And for the last time you can't use arthmetic operators on infinity. Infinity isn't a number. Its more like a destination.

1 + infinity is invalid it isn't a number.

Infinity is a concept.

Yes its a concept.

But the way to use it in a mathematical sense is like a destination you can never reach. Take some calc and you'll see what i mean.

Can't take Calculus until 10th grade

if your interested go online im sure there is material. You just need a strong algebraic and trigometeric background to learn "easily".

My IB Math Methods Standard Level bases itself on that so if you have any questions Regia just ask.

CHECK OUT MY TOPIC ON THIS SUBJECT PEOPLE ITS QUITE INTERESTING ITS UNDER THE HEADING
********THERE IS NO GOD-END OF STORY********

argg would you stop refering people to your lame topic!

My point is this you can't prove or disprove god (mathematically) because to do so you need to put it into a finite number system. Since the very definition of god is infinite, you can't put it into that system.

I see where you're coming from, but also, if you're looking at it scientifically: what makes you think that God works on the same plane as we do? What makes you think he may not work in a dimension where it is possible to have 1 and 1 equal 3?

Also, in my opinion, I don't think God is a man in the sky with a beard and a staff striking down with lightening bolts. All powerful and all controlling are two different things. I believe he is all powerful while he still isn't all controlling. "Mother Nature" is a good example of this: when things are out of balance, on some concious level (but not our own) "Mother Nature" knows and rights it one way or the other.

Whether or not humans are around the planet and the universe will take care of itself, and THAT is God. God is the cycle of things. He is the balance of everything. The gravity and the revelations. The rising of the Moon and the Sun. Not the Moon or the Sun, but the rising of it. He's much more of a conciousness than an actual being and he only exists to those who believe in it, because since he is only a conciousness, if you don't believe he doesn't exist, but if you do, he does.

We're not all working on the same wave-length. That's proven. All people have similiar but different brain waves, thus everyone has a different conciousness. We're all working on slightly different planes. So, what makes you think that God goes by "ours" or that he even has any concept of 1 and 1 equal 2?

I'd rethink your theory some.

Cheers,
Lost

"I see where you're coming from, but also, if you're looking at it scientifically: what makes you think that God works on the same plane as we do?"

I don't.

"What makes you think he may not work in a dimension where it is possible to have 1 and 1 equal 3?

It's highly possible that 1 plus 1 doesn't equal 2. The hole point is humans have excepted that some symbols in a certain sequence produce the same consistant sequence. If for god 1 + 1 = 3 then it is mearly a subsitution with 2 & 3. Even if god did math on different symbols entirely there is still a conversion. As long as the mathimatical system is finite we can convert.

"Also, in my opinion, I don't think God is a man in the sky with a beard and a staff striking down with lightening bolts."

Yes but when you say god this has a christain context. Higher being/power/force is more of what you are talking about.

"All powerful and all controlling are two different things."

They are and they aren't.

"I believe he is all powerful while he still isn't all controlling. "Mother Nature" is a good example of this: when things are out of balance, on some concious level (but not our own) "Mother Nature" knows and rights it one way or the other."

I don't think mother nature is really concious.

"Whether or not humans are around the planet and the universe will take care of itself, and THAT is God."

Not to mention the heat death of the universe, is that god too? And besides you have a funny concept of god.

"God is the cycle of things. He is the balance of everything. The gravity and the revelations."

He is gravity but yet not all controlling? Gravity is constant and unyielding. There is no force on this earth that affects you more than gravity.

"The rising of the Moon and the Sun. Not the Moon or the Sun, but the rising of it. He's much more of a conciousness than an actual being and he only exists to those who believe in it, because since he is only a conciousness, if you don't believe he doesn't exist, but if you do, he does."

You speak of things that aren't really conciousness. You speak of cycles, which may have no meaning behind them.

"So, what makes you think that God goes by "ours" or that he even has any concept of 1 and 1 equal 2?"

He would have a concept of it in whatever number system he uses. Considering there is a one to one translation in finite number systems.


"I'd rethink your theory some."

Not my theroy. I think its retarded.