in my belief there is no god, the only thing the bible is good for is to tear out a page and use it to roll a fatty.

I can't tell you if there is a God or not, but I believe there is God and I know there is GOd in my life, but I'm sure if God exists in everyones life because I kind of think that God created us to recreate Him, in a way. God is more part of the human collective conciousness and if you believe in Him, He exists, but if you don't He doesn't because God is part of your mind. But, I do believe it's more than that, I'm just having a particularily hard time conveying and articulating myself properly considering I'm running on 45 minutes of sleep.

Cheers,
Lost

What you percieve there to be, and what actually is are two separate things entirely.

No, but there is this little old man that lives way up in the sky and watches everything we do. Sometimes when we are sad or depressed we tell the little old man and he makes it all better for us. We build churches to worship this little old man and to tell him how much we love him and this makes him happy. If we make him happy enough he will let us come stay with him in Oz--err Heaven after we die. If we don't make him happy he lets us burn for eternity.

At least that's what I've heard.

well im not too sure there is a clear cut answer anyone can really give another person, its all personal choice

Maybe

No.

In the conventional christain form: no.

In any current specific religion? Probably not, agnosticism's the way to go.

An old man in the sky who makes things better for you is not the only version of God. There has to be a creative force though.

I'm sensing sarcasm.... Hmmm.

Cheers,
Lost

Nope.

THere is some cosmic force that started creation(why was tehre a big bang) but it might not even be sentient, and if it is, why would it give a shit about 1 little race, on one insignificant planet, in one tiny solar system, among an uncalculable number of galaxies? Humans are just a string of proteins, ad the lie that "god loives us all" is just that, a lie. If god has a brain, he's using it for more important things.

If God exists, then he (or they) or aliens that influenced the course of our evolution... that would explain all those gaps. But there is no doubt that we have evolved from lower homonids. There's too much evidence supporting Darwin's theory of evolution but to a Christian any sort of not-yet-explained gap automatically disproves any theory they disagree with.

share your proof of these gaps.

i'm interested.

I agree,

He's refering to the unanswered question of the origin of life.

i believe there is a god but i dont believe he/she/it really cares too much about us. thats not to say we have been deserted but merly we are not significant. i am leaning more tword the idea that god is a creative force but lacks a central consciousness (sp). it really comes down to the definition of god. is it an all perfect being, a creator, simply a higher force, etc.

the thing about aliens creating us is intersting and i have also contemplated that. it would make sense if we are those aliens but under evolved (if you buy evolution theory). in that case to them we would be like primates are to us. there would be no moral qualms about engineering us to study.

yet anoth theory is that if we are in the likeness of god then we are a product of his self interest. he would have most likely created us for enertainment (im not joking here its very possible).

finaly we may not even exist in this physical world. it may be a figment of our imaginations. it is possible that you dont even exist and are just imaginry beings created by my mind.

there are so many possible theories that would make sense that the only logical belife is agnosticism. perhaps im rambling here but i also dont belive in evolution. there has not yet been conclusive proof to show me that it is probable. even if there was proof i doubt it is possible (to any likely degree). i personaly believe in intelligent design theory. this isnt exactly creation by god or even creation necesarily but it means that some force designed our world and this physical reality versus it being a random set of events.

for the start of my rant, im going to ask one question:
does it really matter?
think about it, without definite proof (hiya god, nice to meet you) one has no way of proving existance or nonexistance of god.

if we dont know wether god exists or not and cannot find out at this particular point in time, then its best to keep your mind open on the subject. if god exists, so be it. if god doesnt exist, so be it. Either way, i will continue to think freely and pursue my goals, which i pick according to my ethics and ideas about what im going to do with my life, and unless he comes down and points out how im fucking shit up IF im fucking shit up, i will continue. Theres no point letting indescision stop you from doing what you would normally.
it all boils down to this,
I do what I do according to what MY perception of what should be done is, I learn from other peoples philosophies to construct my own, i dont follow theirs, I follow my everchanging personal ideals. noone elses.
and if god is going to punish me for eternity for what im doing, saying what i do is wrong, without showing me what is right or giving me the chance to correct my errors,
i will defy god.
For if god doesnt have the benevolance to allow me to correct my ways or correct my ways himself, then he is not a benevolent god, and not worthy of worship in my personal perspective.


put that in your pipe n smoke it gandalf.

thought i should add this

the flipside to that is an imperfect god, which brings everything to an entirely new dimension.
OR, god is someone elses definition of perfection. I cannot claim to know god, therefore i cannot claim to know for sure. noone can. But one can only go from ones own perspective, if god is imperfect, then god can make mistakes, probably not as many as we do, but the fact remains. (the existence of satan being an argument for this? if god was perfect, he wouldnt create an imperfect creature and a perfect creature would not cause itself imperfections.)

*insert definition of perfection/inperfection here*

man this subject is fucking complex. ill stop now.

cant keep myself away... must add one last point... *struggle*

theres always the moviestar dilemma, people project perfection onto god, when he's really not some superbeing, but more like the kinda person you'd be drinking beer with on a regular basis who also plays in a band sorta thing. you get what i mean.

it all comes down to defining what god is. i agree about the eternal punishment point you made. if god wants to punish me for following my own values and doing what is right in my mind then i will glady accept hell. i also dont believe in hell, its only purpose is to scare people into following. the whole concept is flawed. if hell was eternal punishment the it wouldent be bad at all. eternity is outside the physical property of time therefor the duration of it would be meaningless.

If you had no concept of time youd only know the second of your concious thought. Every second would be punishment...makes sense to me.

And since when is eternity outside of this realm? There was a beginning to time?

These questions arent meant to rebutt you, I have no idea if science says they have a beginning to time.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dark_Magneto:
What you percieve there to be, and what actually is are two separate things entirely.

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how do you know that?