Think natural.

Man is the only animal with an inborn desire for religion. Think natural.

There are people that don't have an inborn desire for religion.

What you said makes no sense, your sayng people are afraid to die, so they make up a god, now your sayng there is no God, theres nothing after your dead, what your doing is recreating what in your point of view was first, by sayng that there is no God, you said thats what people were thinking at first. But thats what your tryng to believe right now.


Or are you tryng to say theres no God cause you dont want to believe in the fact that there is a hell? Why do you want to tell people theres no God? Cause you wont to be sure of it by yourself? If you dont care, let them believe what they want. You think theres no God they know theres a God. If you still have wonderings if its true, the fact that you persuade others or see that others agree wont help.

And were not animals, if you want to believe that you have some kind of monkey ancestor, I dont care. I prefer beeng called a beautefull creation of God. Just dont laught at that, cause that way I can call you, homosepian or homorectus, what ever you think you were or are.

No people dont have an inborn desire for religion, but for God, but they cant find it cause this world is full of sin.
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If people dont have an inborn sense of religion, how come there was one atheistic society in the history of the world? The Soviet Union is the only one I can think of, and it was a religion in itself. It sucked too and barely counts. The mass of country folk were not atheists anyway.
Thinking of yourself as an animal, or as a creation of God can have the same significance and beauty. If you believe in evolution, you should be most flattered that nature crafted you after millions of years to be the lord of the food chain. We are natures chosen if not Gods.

There are people that do have a desire for it. What are you talking about inborn sense of religion? I can sense religion.

now here's a nice reasonable discussion!

here are my groundless and illogical opinions on the subject:

the desire for to have a "god" is something related to being rational self-contious and all that

creatures that think in the popular meaning of the word need to understand and to have a consistant point of view with which to view the world. creatinga god is just an ez and conveiniant way to make nice big unquestionable world view.

Your Marxists teachers have regurgitated garbage well. Neither of you are making any sense though. A belief that there is no god is religious in nature. You dont just say, there is no God, and leave it at that. No one can, because people have an inborn moral compass. They will still find ways to justify their actions, still find things to condemn others, and still explain the inexplicable.

Why do you insist that atheism is always a belief there is no god? It isn't always that. For most atheists they just don't believe in any gods. They don't happen to be a theist. Not believing in any gods is not the same thing as believing there are no gods. But an atheist can lack a belief in one god, but deny the existence of another god. They can believe that other god doesn't exist.

I lack a belief in any god out there. I don't have it. If someone were to ask me which god I deny existing, then I'd say the christian god. That belief that this god does not exist isn't religious in nature at all. It comes about from reasoning and thinking about it. If I had an inborn desire for religion I would already be believing in some religion. Not everyone has an inborn desire for religion.

Your word for the arbiter of morality, be it god or reason, is irrelevant. You still have a basis for right and wrong, something that justifies yoru actions and condemns the short comings of others, and explains the inexplicable. What others call Yahweh, Vishnu, Buddha, or Quetzalcoatl you call Reason. I call it nature. Vikings called it Odin. Messer calls it logic. You still have a religion. Your belief system is identical to others in personality, it just lacks the window dressing of an immortal in the sky. So what? It accomplishes everything those tales set to accomplish. You needed reason to answer your questions and justify your behavior because you have an inborn desire for answers and codes. All do.

No...

Morality does not have to have anything to do with religion. I do have beliefs, but are they religious in nature? No. Do I have a system of beliefs? No. I don't worship reason. I don't worship anything. I don't believe reason created the universe. I don't believe anything did. I lack a belief in any gods, afterlifes, souls, miracles...etc. In_other_words, I lack a religion.

In the world I live in, I don't call a chair a cat.

sorry fred,

i have to agree with defiant.

either way you are speaking of a belief.

a belief with no evidence to support it.

i wouldn't necessarily call it a religion, but it is still taking a theistic stance,

which proves what spirit is saying.

if it was not inherent in man to believe or not believe in something more,

you would not care how your position was viewed,

because even if misinterpreted you just wouldn't care.

WHAT belief are you talking about? A belief that no gods exist? I don't have that belief. I've already explained that.

As the once great enigma said;

Christianity:

� Come join our cult, little children. God loves you so much that he will take you to heaven if you believe in this book of Jewish folktales. And if you don't believe, then he will send you to a place where there is fire and burning and pain and torment forever and ever. But he loves you. Sort of like how Santa only brings toys to kids who believe.

We're the only animal who can _reason_ and _understand_ we are going to die.

Animal instincts with a fear of death added along with a horrible society.......................

I just can't wait for sunday.

Many people think of God as illogical, I think the concept of God is alogical.

I'm not saying the current definition of God is, just the concept in general.

you mean to tell me fred that you KNOW god doesn't exist.

present your evidence, i'd love to hear it.

and so would the rest of the world, i'm sure.

if you don't know it, you BELIEVE IT.

No, I don't mean that. Not believing in any gods is not the same thing as believing there are no gods. That's how it is.

The problem is there is no evidence in either direction. And belief in either way is irrational.

Now this is where personal prefence comes in: either you bow towards logical reasoning which states if you can sense it its not there. Or you bow towards your own feelings and believe its there.

Either way you had to choose a postition based off of how you were brought up.

also on morality:

morality is tied to religion, but doesn't need to be.

And i mean religion in the defined since. Christanity, buddism, etc. Don't give me the crap that every belief is a religion in which its not. So don't even try...phew.

quote:

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Originally posted by soullace:
The problem is there is no evidence in either direction. And belief in either way is irrational.

Now this is where personal prefence comes in: either you bow towards logical reasoning which states if you can sense it its not there. Or you bow towards your own feelings and believe its there.

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Firstly, I have to say there may not be any evidence to support the belief in a God, but logicaly, he could (and maybe should exist).

There are 3 main thoughts on how we came to be here.

1) We came from nothing
2) We have been here for ever
3) Someone/thing put us here

The first concept in my mind cannot exist. Nothing => something just dosnt fit.

The second one is the science view (my view also) in one that we have been here for ever, whether is be the theory that the universe infinatly repeats or whatever.

The third belief is that a God type entity (which has existed for infinity) put us here.

The first cannot of happend.
Therefore an infinity must lie somewhere.
The other two simply place the Infinity of the creation in different places, evidence can be found for both 2) and 3), but it is very hard to disprove either of them. From experiance i have found that it is very rare that people will change between beliefs 2 & 3, i'm not sure why, maybe its they way that they were brought up, maybe its genetic.

But IMHO neither are more provable, but i choose to belive in 2 rather than 3 simply for the reason that if there is a god, he i belive he will be a nice guy/gal, and since i leads my life in a resonable good way, i will get into heaven ne way.

Evidence suggests we exist but not how we came into existance. So any thought that might make sense is still irrational because there is no proof for what you called 2 & 3. Our exsistance doesn't prove in either direction. It may prove that 2 or 3 might be more possible than 1, but they still don't provide any proof.

So i re-iterate: since neither are provable they are both illogical.

Hey Lostmind, prove the invisible pink unicorn(pbuhhh) doesn't exist.
www.geocities.com/ipuprophecy/ipu.html

quote:

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Originally posted by soullace:
So i re-iterate: since neither are provable they are both illogical.

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No, neither are provable, but logically we must have come from somewhere. These are the only two posibilities that can exist, so logicaly one must be correct.