...which includes myself: If you had to pick a religion, what would it be? I'm 14, so I'm not incredibly knowledgable about theology and the like, but if I had to choose one... it would probably be buddhism. It seems somewhat interesting to me. More so, anyway, than all the other religions, ESPECIALLY Christianity (which, to me, seems like the stupidest one of them all). Of course, I like to think as rational as I possibly can, so I know it's just as fake as any religion, but not quite as stupid.

If you are sure about atheism and the non-existence of God or any Supreme Being then no religion is ever satisfactory. You're more of an agnostic than an atheist.

I'd probably be an Epicurean Hellenistic.

If i had to believe in god it would be more among the lines that lostmind believes in god. If you wish to know how he believes in god to look at the millions of posts he has posted in this forum.

quote:

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Originally posted by MesserschmidtBf109:
If you are sure about atheism and the non-existence of God or any Supreme Being then no religion is ever satisfactory. You're more of an agnostic than an atheist.

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Nope, I'm an atheist. I was just asking if you had to pick a religion, what would it be? I don't believe in God, I don't believe in spirituality or anything of the like... I am an atheist. That's all there is too it.

But isn't atheism a religion? You have your beliefs about a higher power and you have your own fanatics who can't accept that other people aren't atheists?

This is what I think religion is:

re�li�gion (r-ljn)
n.

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.


Worship. I don't worship anything.

[This message has been edited by Brent (edited 01-02-2002).]

So you're asking, what do we think the coolest religion is?

Islam. I like the emphasis on humility and equality. The richest of Kings is buried in the same manner as a poor beggar. You don't find that anywhere else in the religious world.

Burial. Ha. The only good example of how a society seeks equality is what is done to peopel after theyre dead. LoL thats real useful to the poor beggar whose lived his life a poor beggar while the King has rooms made of gold filled with sex slaves.

For once.. I agree with you.

Everyone dies, you're dead for more time than you're alive. But that's not the point. Defiant, I thought you also admired Islam. (?) For different reasons of course, but please expound upon them.

i became an atheist at around 15, welcome to the club. one of the coolest religeons i've found since then is taoism. hard to exlain what it's about, one example from the tao te ching kind of gets it, it talks about being like the uncarved block.

the woodcarver takes a block of wood and takes pieces away from it to make it into a statue or whatever. it says you should be like that uncarved block, not letting pieces of yourself get taken from you to shape you into a "man", or society's definition of a "man". and by being complete you achieve happiness.

it's kind of idealistic, but a nice unassuming almost non-religeous religeon. i agree that buddhism is pretty cool, except i have no patience for the pointless ceremonies.

>>>>Everyone dies, you're dead for more time than you're alive. But that's not the point.<<<<

I know. Thats the weakest argument possible dude. If you think a religion is egalitarian because, after a life of massive rifts among people, burial is the same, you are foolish, blind and ignorant.

>>>>Defiant, I thought you also admired Islam. (?) For different reasons of course, but please expound upon them.<<<<<

They look at women as property. And dont believe in showing off wealth and judging people by that. And they arent egalitarian liars.

Q key broken?

Islam is actually one of the best relegions. But I still say Epicurean Hellenistic. In case anybody out there doesn't know what I'm talking about Hellenism is worship of the greek gods and Epicureanism was a branch that believed:
1. Do not fear Death.
2. Do not fear the Gods, because they either exist and don't care, or don't exist, but worship them anyway because ritual is neccessary.
3. Something else that I can't remember.

deism, would be(is) my choice.

thanks soullace.

Read Timothy Leary's book "Make Your Own Religion" if youre just looking for a cool religion, thats just about the coolest one you'll find. If your looking for true power and wisdom, try reading the Bible. and I mean read the actual Bible itself, not some atheist website devoted to taking bible verses out of context and pinning them up against eachother so they can say oh boy look at all these contradictions, good for me! what solid disproof ive found!

A funeral is more of a service for the people that are still alive rather than the person that died. I mean, they're dead, to what benefit is it to them?

My religion would not involve a god. Thus I would not be deist. If I was to chose a religion, it would be Buddhism, Taosim, or Confucionism. Eastern philosophy w00t.

actually, hinduism, taoism, and buddhism do believe in a god.

hinduism the dance of shiva="God and his creation are One. Yet God hides himself from his creation to give himself the joy of discovering God. God is both Creator and the Created. This is also known as the Wisdom of Balance. The Uncreated God and The Created God are One, yet the creation is attached to the grand illusion of separateness. Whenever God's creation discovers God, God discovers himself all over again. God delights in the dance of hiding and discovering his glory. The Cosmic Dance of Shiva."

taoism= "Every one of the seven religions represented by the seven candles have a special flame that illuminate a mystery. The Wisdom of Balance burns brightly within Taoism. Yin and Yang, the power and beauty of balanced opposites. Tao also teaches that there is Supreme State of Being, a pure perfection from which all beings, including man, are separated from it by a delusion of viewpoint. You will learn that separatness is an illusion. Instead there is only Oneness"

buddhism="Buddha was familiar with the teachings of the Supreme Personality of the Godhead from the teachings of the Hindu priests that attended the court. When Buddha achieved the enlightened state he connected completely to the state of Absolute Awareness which trancends all created realities. Buddha was the flame on the fourth candle before the throne of God. The candle is firmly in the candlestick that represents The Wisdom of Awareness."

Absolute awareness would rule, I always have a feeling that what I am seeing is not the whole picture or its artificial or something.

Feels like I'm in the Matrix.

I would go with Secular Humanism.

The fundamental ideals of it are
Belief in Deity: Not considered important. Most Humanists are atheists or agnostics.
Incarnations: Same as above.
Origins of universe/life: The scientific method is most respected as the means for revealing the mysteries of the origins of the universe and life.
After death: An afterlife or spiritual existence after death is not recognized.
Why evil? No concept of �evil.� Reasons for wrongdoing are explored through scientific methods, e.g. through study of sociology, psychology, criminology, etc.
Salvation: No concept of afterlife or spiritual liberation or salvation. Realizing ones personal potential and working for the betterment of humanity through ethical consciousness and social works are considered paramount, but from a naturalistic rather than supernatural standpoint.
Undeserved suffering: No spiritual reasons, but rather a matter of human vulnerability to misfortune, illness, and victimization.
Contemporary Issues: The American Humanist Association endorses elective abortion. Other contemporary views include working for equality for homosexuals, gender equality, a secular approach to divorce and remarriage, working to end poverty, promoting peace and non-violence, and environmental protection.

i know its not an official religion but i would go with transcendetalism. of coure i actualy belive in a religion right now however its not organized, its just me doing my own thing. i believe in a lot of new age type concepts (astral projection).

>>>>The fundamental ideals of it are
Belief in Deity: Not considered important. Most Humanists are atheists or agnostics.<<<<

Atheism is a religion too, it just makes people god. Hear me out:

>>>>Origins of universe/life: The scientific method is most respected as the means for revealing the mysteries of the origins of the universe and life.<<<<<

Which is woefully inadequate in explaining many things about even just our beginnings, let alone the beginning of the universe. The scientific explaination of matter fornming from energy and energy forming from nothing or whatever is taken on faith. The atheist puts his faith in science, even when science only has ideas (myths) to explain things because he cannot handle the idea of not knowing the answer to questions. Sound familiar? Let us on.

>>>After death: An afterlife or spiritual existence after death is not recognized.<<<<

This is not even true of many atheists, as many believe in reincarnation. There is no unified belief in what happens after death, but no matter what, any belief is just that; there is no scientific ground to say you know what happens when I die. It is taken on faith because the atheist needs answers to his questions.

>>>>>Why evil? No concept of �evil.� Reasons for wrongdoing are explored through scientific methods, e.g. through study of sociology, psychology, criminology, etc.<<<<

Wrong and evil are different. A Muslim cleric who kills different kinds of Muslims is not evil, but he might be wrong. Evil is malice and death and wishing ill on things. Wrong can have that effect, but with a pure heart.
Again here in the explaination of evil though, the atheist is religious. To the atheist, god is man with social harmony, tolerance, and all that faggot liberal jazz. By no coincidence, to an atheist, evil is the offspring of the opposite of the root of their good; it springs from an evil deity (poverty, neglect and deprivation, all things opposed to the atheist good "god", prosperity, benevolence, provision, etc) In their explaination of good and evil, man is influenced by their gods, either the good one of wisdom and love, or the evil one of selfishness and hate.

>>>>>Salvation: No concept of afterlife or spiritual liberation or salvation. Realizing ones personal potential and working for the betterment of humanity through ethical consciousness and social works are considered paramount, but from a naturalistic rather than supernatural standpoint.<<<<

I dont have to say much to argue this. You just used religious language and ideals but said it wasnt religious. There can no higher ethic without a concept of a higher law.
Lemme get this straight. You do "good" not because of the command of a god, but because of a force invisible to man but manifested in all life (your "nature").

>>>>Undeserved suffering: No spiritual reasons, but rather a matter of human vulnerability to misfortune, illness, and victimization.<<<<<

In most religions, the righteous suffer along with the wicked, with no relevance to their merit in heaven.

>>>>Contemporary Issues: The American Humanist Association endorses elective abortion. Other contemporary views include working for equality for homosexuals, gender equality, a secular approach to divorce and remarriage, working to end poverty, promoting peace and non-violence, and environmental protection.<<<<<

All stances that show belief in a higher law of benevolence, acceptance, and peace. There is no evidence that such a kingdom can exist, yet they strive for it.
Atheism is a religion, case fucking closed.

No it isn't. Religion is a belief in and worship in a higher power.

Very good Spirit. Well done.

I think I would go for the closest (religious) thing to Satanism (in the nihilistics sense NOT the worship of satan).

a�the�ism (th-zm)
n.

Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
The doctrine that there is no God or gods.

Godlessness; immorality.

Atheism is a belief in and worship of a higher power, it just doesnt call that higher power god.

Spirit, I know that you are probably a fanatical christian, so I will be blunt. Atheism is the belief that there is no god, no soul, no afterlife, and no supernatural forces. Atheists belief that a god or gods did not create man, but that man created gods. Oh and by the way, I do not neccissarily believe in the Big bang THEORY or the evolution THEORY. I am uncertain of the origin of man or the universe, but that does not make some fairy tale story of a god or gods the best answer.

[This message has been edited by Atheist_Jihad (edited 01-21-2002).]

"Atheism is a belief in and worship of a higher power"

What higher power? I have never seen a dictionary define atheism as that.

A higher power is a god. Defiant says that atheism is a belief in a higher power. When the dictionary says that atheism is the disbelief or lack of belief in gods it also means the disbelief or lack of belief in higher powers. What Defiant is saying is the total opposite of what the dictionaries are saying. He is calling atheism a theistic religion. It doesn't work out. It's what you call nonsense.

Religion is a belief in and worship of a higher power with a set of beliefs and practices. Definitions of other things will show that they are religions, like christianity. Do the DEFINITIONS of this thing called atheism show this? No. It is not a religion. Well, case fucking closed?? Ha ha ha...

quote:

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Originally posted by Atheist_Jihad:
Spirit, I know that you are probably a fanatical christian,

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No, he's a Romanic Nazi-Pagan. Get your facts strait.

The problem with people who worship themselves is when they get together their religions conflict.

I'm not an atheist per se, i more belive in nothing fully becuase to belive in something fully is to exclude all possibilities, and that gives a very limited viewpoint. However, if i had to choose one religion, definetly discordianism! Hail Eris, All Hail Discordia, and Bucket of Slack!

I thought slack was a subgenii concept?

>>>>Spirit, I know that you are probably a fanatical christian, so I will be blunt. <<<,

Not even close.

>>>>>Atheism is the belief that there is no god, no soul, no afterlife, and no supernatural forces. Atheists belief that a god or gods did not create man, but that man created gods.<<<<

***Atheism is the belief ***
****Atheists belief ******

How many times must I say, you do not need a supernatural power to have a god? The ancient Hebrews made a god of a golden calf.

>>>> Oh and by the way, I do not neccissarily believe in the Big bang THEORY or the evolution THEORY. I am uncertain of the origin of man or the universe, but that does not make some fairy tale story of a god or gods the best answer.<<<<

So, a god named God who symbolizes creative energy is a fairy-tale, but a god named nature, or science, or order, or chaos, or chance, doesnt qualify as such?


"Atheism is a belief in and worship of a higher power"

>>>What higher power?<<<<<

Reason. Logic. Science. Chance. Matter. The self. Humanity. Evolution. Society. Take your pick. You can name your god whatever you wish, and shape him however you wish. Some called god Thor and said he rode across the sky in a chariot causing thunder and killing giants with his hammer. Others called him Jesus and said he was nailed to a cross for your sins. Others call him science and see his work in the intricacy of the tiniest matter. There is no idea that does not spring from belief in some abstract thing outside of man.


>>>A higher power is a god. Defiant says that atheism is a belief in a higher power.<<<

A higher power is a higher power. A god is an immortal being, force, or conciousness. presumably of another plane. Religions only need a higher power, as in, something bigger than man that defines reality. Do atheists think people invented time and space? No, a Higher Power did.

>>>>When the dictionary says that atheism is the disbelief or lack of belief in gods it also means the disbelief or lack of belief in higher powers.<<<<

No it doesnt. Nature is a higher power. Astrology, higher levels of conciousness, there are a million examples of higher powers that atheists acknowledge and believe in.

>>>>What Defiant is saying is the total opposite of what the dictionaries are saying. He is calling atheism a theistic religion.<<<<

Is my god not a god because he is named Jupiter? Your god is a god even though he is named atheism, or science, or nature, or you.

>>>>Religion is a belief in and worship of a higher power with a set of beliefs and practices.<<<<

Will an atheist be married by a priest or a judge? A judge. That is a belief in civil law (higher power) and a practice of union.

>>>>Definitions of other things will show that they are religions, like christianity. Do the DEFINITIONS of this thing called atheism show this? No. It is not a religion. Well, case fucking closed??<<<<

Rest your case if you must. Argue semantincs and surface level 12 year old nonsense, fact of the matter is, atheism acknowledges higher powers. Whereas a priest calls his Higher Power God and seeks Him and His wisdom and truth on a cross in prayer, an atheist calls his God logic, or rationality, or knowledge, or whichever cult you prefer, and seeks It and Its wisdom and truth in science and learning. The atheist does so to learn of his higher power, to seek communion with it, to quiet his own mind, to answer his own questions, to tap for his own powers, or to motivate himself to be strong. Sound familiar again?

You can call science a higher power if you want, that is acceptable, but realize that it is an element (or all elements you could say) rather than a sentient being.

Cold is defined as the absence of heat, Atheism is defined as the absence of religion or a belief in God (in the conventional sense). If you believe there is some sentient force that created everything then you are not an atheist.

in response to VeneFrigus' post, well discordians and subgenii are very closely related - Omar K. Ravenhurst, creator of Discordianism along w/ Malcalypse the Younger, even said in the intro to the 5th principia discordia that a duel membership is allowed (unless you live outslide of Texas in a place where dueling is illegal, of course).

quote:

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A god is an immortal being, force, or conciousness. presumably of another plane.

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You go on to say that reason, logic, rationality, knowledge, science, chance, matter, self, humanity, evolution, or society are gods. Do those fit what a god is? Go through all of those. You'll find that none of them can be called a god. Are those things higher powers? I don't consider them higher powers. And Atheism says nothing about them. You know why it doesn't? Because atheism means so little, it only means 1 thing. It isn't like a religion.

Did atheists create the universe? If they do not believe so, they believe a higher power did. They just dont call him God and think it has human characteristics. What does a religion do that atheism doesnt?

What in the hell? No, they don't believe anything created it. If a person believes a higher power created the universe then they are pretty much believing in a god.

.never mind.

[This message has been edited by Brent (edited 01-24-2002).]

Take whatever force that created the universe and give it a name. "God" sounds good, wouldn't you agree?

But when you say God, everyone thinks omnipotent being that is all knowing and all seeing. Science is none of these so your definition of "God" does not conform to what it is universally accepted as.

Those people are Scientologists since science knows no good or evil, heaven or hell, moral and immoral and is incapable of thought or cognisance. Science is just the world we live in described in human terms.
My fingernail growing is science.

Do atheists kill science? Nope. Does science kill atheists? Yep. Science is a higher power. It is external to man, came before him, and will be here after him. Most gods dont agree with the omnipotent omniscient Christian model, but most atheists define atheism as, disagreeing with Biblical fundamentalism.

Do atheists stop at red lights when theres no immediate selfish need to? Laws are a higher power too.

join the grand unified theory

Science is the observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena. Something like that. Without man, it wouldn't be around. Most atheists define atheism as I do I think. A lot focus on Biblical fundamentalism too much, but they don't define atheism as disagreeing with that. And still, atheism isn't defined with anything about anything else besides not believing in gods. You don't have anything to call it a religion.

my religion is the religion of my penis, guys are welcome to admire and girls are welcome to participate... christianity is the most fucked up religion of them all, but the best part about it is christians will virtually believe anything you tell them, making them ripe for fucking them over with stupid religious cults... :> there is good aspects and bad aspects to religion and non-religion... non religious people generally are smarter and more open to new ideas, where as religious people are generally happy ALL THE FUCKING TIME!! its really quite sad, but i guess they are happy anyway... cant concentrate movie on... if you would like to join my religion please worship a dick near you... thats all i ask... :>

i'd make my own cult...

we'd worship everything said to be wrong in this world and find relief in the destruction of everything

but it wouldn't be a suicide cult... those are just plain boring...

The idea of a higher power is a power that is greater than the collective power of man. Science is a measure of that collective power. It is not beyond human power it IS human power. Government is how we apply our own power to ourselves. So stopping at red lights isn't yeilding to a higher power its yielding to the rules of the government. In which i stated above isn't a higher power. It maybe more powerful than you as an individual, but isn't more powerful than collective humanity.

And quit confusing a belief with a religion they are NOT the same.

As far of creation of the universe here is how i see it. Matter always existed. This took me a while to accept but it seems the most reasonable. Given this, an event like the big bang seems more plausable. This would allow the universe to expand like it is now. This also would get the ball rolling and allow reactions with hydrogen atoms, Colalesing(sp) into higher elements. Then they would collect forming planets allowing the building blocks for life. Given a constant energy bath, chemical reactions can occur to allow life processes to begin. Which leads to my most fundemental thought, that life is a property of matter. Like electricity goes from negitive to positive. Matter given the proper amount of energy (and materials) forms life.

If you think that is like a belief in god, you are wrong. It is a knowledge in the properties of matter. Much like we know fire burns, we know other things about matter to be true. We may never know EXACTLY how the universe was created... but we can get really close.