What do you feel about women? Christians, does the fact that Eve was the one to fall victim to the serpent, and later convince Adam, point to an inherent spiritual weakness? Are they more valuable? Less valuable? Your thoughts...

Women aren't inherently much different from men. They generally play a certain role in life, as do guys, because that's what they're taught. Teach a boy and a girl the same things, though, and they'll grow up to be remarkably similar.

How valuable does that make them? Equal to men.

No doubt women are different from men... but no worse or better. They're part of society, and an equal part.

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Women can only have about 12 children in their lives. That makes them a lot more valuable then men.
Women and men are extremely different physiologically, ass. Nature, or God even, crafted women to have children. Therefore, the ones who were better at it sharpened their skill and passed on those genetic traits. Theyre evolved to be good parents. That means, they are more worldly than men. Where men tend to get hot headed or angry or passionate about things outside the home, a healthy woman tends to think of things in terms to their relationship to her and her family. She does not get idealistic and charge off and fight. If she was programmed to do so, valuable child bearers would have perished and our species would have died out long ago.
Theres a reason female gods aer of the Earth, and male ones of the sky. I think Men are the more skyward leaning because they are expendable. If 10,000 men die in war, the remaining 1,000 will still father enough children to keep a tribe going. If 10,000 women die, the population would be doomed.

"She does not get idealistic and charge off and fight"

show me these women defiant, i want one.

You cant have mine.

Every great woman in history (truly great, not Marxist feminist fuckin airheads that never got laid and direct their repression outward) is true to this. That is the Feminine Principle. How many of you have listened to your mother yell at your father for doing something at work out of a sense of pride or defiance and dismiss it as impractical?
Women are designed to raise children. They were probably the first doctors, and are definitely the first teachers. They are designed for that. Part of the design is their conciousness. They relate things to people, rather than ideas, like men. Is it a coincidence the creators of ideologies are men? Is it a coincidence the woman is the home in Every society on the planet?

it sounds to me that you are trying to place priority on male and females.

they are equaly integrated and equaly important. yes a woman can have 12 babies. who cares. can a male not father HUNDREDS of children? does that make a person great? being a slut isn't a trait to be proud of and nor is it worthy of recognition.

we are all equal under God's eyes. thats what should matter.

Of course there's physical differences. Mentally, spiritually, any other way, men and women are capable of the same things. Teach a girl to be a fighter, and she'll be a fighter. Teach a boy how to nurture, and he'll nurture.

Way back in the neanderthal days, someone had to keep the kids in the cave, and someone had to hunt. The only real weapon they had was their physical strength, so the strongest- ie. the guys- went and hunted. So, the tradition began. Doesn't mean they're not capable of the same mentalities and beliefs.

This is probably the three hundredth time people with open minds have not listened to a word I said and responded with cliche dogmatic hatred.
Where did I say anything about not being of value to society? Where did I say anything about not being to integrate people? How come every single time someone acknowledges the existence of a difference between someone they are a heretic?
Emotional differences are physical, ass. Emotions aer chemical reactions. Chemicals are different in men and women. Women's emotions ground their loyalty to the home. Men's chemicals make their emotions loyal to other things. Neither is better. Both are necessary. But women are still more necessary. A man can have thousands of children, exactly my point. He is not more valuable, that means a society needs less men than women, ass. A woman is of more value than in that respect. Isnt the point of life to create and advance more life? Isnt that the only lesson Nature has taught us?

Defiant, how do you know that those differences don't arise from the society in which we live? Also, doesn't the fact that some women are idealistic fighters show that it can't be something as simple as chemicals in the brain?

I think women are in many ways stronger then men. They have to put up with our shit all the time. They have babies, clean the house, work a job, come home and prepare a tasty meal. As far as Adam and Eve goes, Adam stood by and watched to see what would happen to Eve! Some husband he was! Then like all of humanity; they both blamed it on someone or something else. Both were guilty.

Curious... what got you thinking about this subject anyway?

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If you will the rat race, your still a rat!

>>>>Defiant, how do you know that those differences don't arise from the society in which we live?<<<<

Because it is impossible for that to occur by chance in every society. Also, it would have to be based on something, people just didnt wake up one day and invent a stereotype or role for a group of people.

>>>>Also, doesn't the fact that some women are idealistic fighters show that it can't be something as simple as chemicals in the brain?<<<<

No. Some social animals are anti-social too. Psycholgical anomalies, wounds, and abnormalities occur often. But the general rule is, and the general predisposition is and always was, women are practical and relate things to people.

Society is our own construct. Let's not get mixed up with BIOLOGICAL things like defiant was mentioning earlier.. just the same as women mice are important to the mice population. That's kinda.. Given, isn't it?

Evidence suggests mens and womens brains work differently, more apt to different things. And perhaps the Y chromosone has influences cognative reasoning beyond that of a woman, perhaps not. Pysical strength, no contest. We win on all counts, including (and this is tested) stamina, pain tollerance. All that stuff about childbearth.. evidence suggests otherwise.

What more evidence do you need than, Every society since man has begun sees women as mothers first? How about the development of children's eye sight and facial recognition? Babies are designed to recognize their mothers faces as soon as their vision can see far enough. They automatically feel security when they recognize this.

Seems to be two schools of thought here.. thinking of women the way they should be, Nature's role for them and whatnot, and thinking of women the way they can be, what they're capable of.

These are views that don't generally lend themselves to a happy middle ground in a debate, and considering the participants here, almost certainly won't in this case. You may not care. Just consider it before you keep going..

How does one divorce what should be from what is according to Nature?

I'm not gonna argue about what women are supposed to be. You say it's all Nature's doing, because how could every society think of them in a mothering role if it weren't that way? Ok, true.. considering they're mothers, that would tend to follow. Being physically weaker than men, not to mention being unable to participate in things like the hunt while lugging around a kid in their belly, would give them, yes, a natural role in society.

What I'm saying is that the other line of thinking is based around what women are capable of, not what they're "designed" to be- in other words, they can and do step outside the shoes Nature gave them to wear. The two views don't necessarily lend themselves very well to a debate where a middle ground might be found.. since I doubt you're gonna change your mind, and I doubt too many people who are on the other side will change theirs, the only way this ends is when people stop talking. So, I'm simply suggesting that everyone think about whether what they want to say is worth saying, or if it'll just prolong a neverending argument.

Fair enough. The purpose of my post though, more than anything, was to get a religious perpective on women. I understand the secular egalitarian false one already. I want to hear a clerical, egalitarian false one now

Its interesting how things appear different once you are viewing the same point from a different standpoint or perspective. While we are all looking at the same point, the few that lack understanding expects you to see things as they do as being the right and only way.
Eg. Say a friend and I was looking at a rock. If we are both viewing the rock from different position, you cant expect me to see the exact same thing as he does. Probly from where hes looking he sees a crack in the rock while from where I'm looking from the rock is as smooth as a baby butt. Yet we might spend the entire evening arguing about the rock not knowing we are both right.
Well, this is my perspective on woman from my stand point. As I see it, the only difference between a man, and a woman is that the woman is a man that has a womb inside him. That is how the term ' Woman' came to be.
'Womb-man' minus the '_mb_'--> 'Wo-Man'.

Ever wonder why men has nipples that has no apparent use. The two gender is very similar except for the womb and what is associated with it.
As I see it, of course women are weaker. The reason I believe is that woman has to carry around extra baggages while men get to run around with our dick hanging looking for trouble to get into. If you are of those that view different people as races, imagine being the one carrying a bag full of stuff running in a very long marathon trying to keep up with men who are running with nothing more than their underwears. Wouldn't that be hard?

I am not trying to prove anyone wrong or force my views on anyone, nor do I appreciate people telling other people that they are wrong. We all have different views. This is mine, this is how I see it.
D3RetLa.

defiant.

woah. calm down. i was in no way insulting to you. there is absolutely NO reason why you should make things escalate to such a level. if thats the game you are going to play, im taking my ball and going home. instead of a flame, wouldn't a clarification be better? or rather more of a clarification than a flame?

and what do you mean 'dogmatic hatred?' that was in no way dogmatic. nor was it angry, let alone hateful.

please, dont bitch at me because what i read from what you wrote was the 'wrong' thing.

you used the words, and i quote 'valuable' and 'more valuable.'

is it my fault that i responded the way i percieved what you were saying RESPECTFULLY because what you wrote was obviously not precisely what you ment? is it my fault that you weren't clear in your initial questions?

no.

you asked people to respond in their perspective. SPECIFICALLY CHRISTIANS! dont bitch at me because you don't like the product.


all i hear is 'waah' from your side lad. if you want the 'right' answer, ask what you mean for goodness sakes.

>>>>Ever wonder why men has nipples that has no apparent use.<<<<

Yes they do. We walk bipedally, and people encounter us from the front. We need ways to get peoples attention. They are eye spots.

>>>>The two gender is very similar except for the womb and what is associated with it.<<<<<

Naturally. But motherhood is associated with that, and that implies a host of inherent character traits. Have you ever had sex dude? Have you ever loved a woman? How could you say they are men with vaginas? Thats pretty immature and stupid.

>>>>As I see it, of course women are weaker. The reason I believe is that woman has to carry around extra baggages while men get to run around with our dick hanging looking for trouble to get into.<<<<

Are you a lesbian now? What the fuck? Were supposed to take this seriously?

>>>>If you are of those that view different people as races, imagine being the one carrying a bag full of stuff running in a very long marathon trying to keep up with men who are running with nothing more than their underwears. Wouldn't that be hard?<<<<

Uhhhh...

>>>>I am not trying to prove anyone wrong or force my views on anyone<<<<

Good, if you did youd be a miserable failure.

>>>>nor do I appreciate people telling other people that they are wrong. We all have different views. This is mine, this is how I see it.<<<<

Get glasses.

Bar room hero, I didnt check yet what I said in response to you. Ill come back later. That last idiot made me stupider for reading his post and Im going to go play X-Com until my intelligence regenerates.

Ok, I checked it. I said ass a lot, other than that I dont get what youre so emo about.
In general, the reply How do you know its not society, is far too over-used and makes me kind of nauseated, so stop using it. Societies dont make women have a hundredth the amount of children as men. Societies dont make women have different hormones. Societies dont build wombs. Societies dont alter babies genetic behavioral patterns. Genes do.
I have a great challenge for all of you. Imagine a world where people can acknowledge natural differences, and not use them as a source of hatred. Hey guess who beat you there? Thats right, Mr Exile has long ago made this world his home.
I can look at a woman, see that shes meant to be a mother, educator, or healer, and say somethign to her other than, Bitch make me a sandwich. That you react with such fear of even looking at her naturally makes me think you cant.

quote:

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Originally posted by Defiant Exile:
I have a great challenge for all of you. Imagine a world where people can acknowledge natural differences, and not use them as a source of hatred. Hey guess who beat you there? Thats right, Mr Exile has long ago made this world his home.
I can look at a woman, see that shes meant to be a mother, educator, or healer, and say somethign to her other than, Bitch make me a sandwich. That you react with such fear of even looking at her naturally makes me think you cant.

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I do that. I think most of us do. What varies is our opinion of what constitutes a "natural" difference.

i wouldn't be able to hold a relationship for two years straight if i didn't.

I agree with exile. but i think that with the "advancement" of our society the differences and natural line has blurred. We live in a different world than out more primate-like ancestors, and the roles that nature had in mind then are not needed so much today, or even 200 years ago, as they were in primordial times.. so we've become more alike, our central nature is more or less the same as it was then, but as i said before evolution not needing those skills as much has made the line blur.

Janny

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They say I'm beat and rambling trying to put me down, but i take it and embrace it, and make it my own.

But our nature hasnt changed, just our society. Our genetic heritage is yet unchanged since the times our roles were defined. Our roots are the same, we are corrupting them and kidding ourselves if we think our roots are wrong and our reinterpration is correct.

The roots will always be there. They don't just go away. Humanity is no longer forced to stay close to those roots, though, so a lot of us don't. It's called growing. Would you say a tree is corrupting its roots by growing as well?

a tree that doesn't grow,

is called bush.

The higher a tree grows, the lower, deeper, and stronger its roots must be. A tree cannot grow tall without a strong base. Thank you for your analogy.

Right. Those most successful at growing away from their genetic roots are usually the ones that understand them the best.

We found a middle ground.. I'll be damned.

In understanding your genetic roots, you will come to realize they are not something to be overcome, just, realized. The best men are truest to their inherent, unconcious drives. They are just what we can be too. We lose out thinking we can beat our genes.

We are not trying to be untrue to our genetic roots, but we are made who we are as people from more than genetics..

Nature vs nurture.
Janny

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They say I'm beat and rambling trying to put me down, but i take it and embrace it, and make it my own.

What about it? Nature wins. It designed the structuer that nurtures, and is why we nurture.