Albert Einstein once said;

"I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists. Not in a god who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings."

I believe in Spinoza's God as well. Not that any of you care.

i care;

i've said many times that god can't punish us for what we do;

if he is omniscient; he would've known the outcome of freewill given to individuals;

would've know that we would blindly follow people who told us we were evil and that salvation can only be achieved by a weekly offering(i think god is the richest person in the world greedy bastard; correction religious zealots who pray upon the guilt inherant in human nature as they contrive the biggest tax shelter scam that the world has ever or will ever see) feeding off of individuals who are either to scared or ignorant to question the beliefs that have been shoved upon them by a man who chose this as a profession;

no they were not ordained by god;

you think invites to the ceremony would've been sent out as he anoints his chosen ones to lead the world(or the people who contibute 10% of their income every week on the promise that this shall undo all the wrongs you've done; which is clause allowing you to break the "laws of god" as long as you show up in court every week and pay your fine;

then after everybody contributes their money; they have a feast in the basement provided not by god; not by the man who accepts these payments on behalf of the lord; but by the very same people who contributed and conceal behind a fancy name like pot luck;

that's gratitude;

and not any god i believe in; nor any god i believe exists;

i wouldn't say i believe in spinoaza's god;

i would just say i believe in god; who made me to enjoy the meaning of what it means to truly exist; and experience all facets of that existance both good and bad; while trying not to interfere with anothers existance or interpretation of;

which we fail at miserably;

because as long as we pay our fines;

yell fifty names of someone other than god;

starve ourselves for a few days to prove devotion which should be known if omniscient;

we will continue to be free to do as we please even at the expense of others.

and for that we should all be ashamed; that we would have the gall to so deeply affect one's life in any way that that person would not see as positive.

some occurences are accidents; but others are paid in full at the end of the week; or other suitable fashion depending on belief.

actually if ya think about it if god is all powerfull then he could have created him self, i read in the bible that we are a part of him, earth is probaly like half of god. If we are a part of god and god is good, then how can we sin since sin always beats out evil. I think this is a dream that god has created, since he dreams this earth then he is this earth preaty much, not the exact earth but nature in it's self as what the article is saying.

there's an eastern philosophy forget which that says we are a dream in god's mind.

but to contradict you that if god is all powerful he could've created himself.

how come something that doesn't exist will itself into being.

mankind is so wrapped up in beginnings and endings.

all properties of time;

which exist only within the universe;

it's what lies beyond that i'm interested in.

where time has no meaning.

the universe is 10 billion years old; what was before that.

the universe is expanding; but what space does it fill.

both questions that can only be answered with laws of nature as we know them now.

which are a product of this universe.

infinity is hard to comprehend unless dealing with numbers.

no matter how high you count in either direction you can still add one more.

scientists say that we can go back to .00001 seconds after the big bang.

before that is not important because all laws we know break down before that point.

but in actuality if you really want to know where we came from you must look before that.

because we cannot comprehend or explain it does not mean its insignificant or not real.

kind of like god.

quote:

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Originally posted by lostmind:
but to contradict you that if god is all powerful he could've created himself.

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My best explanation to make this sentenced more believeable would be, i guess would be perfection, perfection of the soul, the body, and the spirit. Making it more of a whole, from which doing this makes you extreme, i think that's were we get our level of angels. I think lucifer was trying to do the same, perfect his soul to be that of a greater then god, god didn't want this and so he was cast down. I'm sure nuthing can be made out of something i guess. Oh and buy the way, if god gave us free will, the right to do as we please, and since god made us, then what would be the use of a hell? Because as long as were not coded with sins on our body then it's alright, doing a sin i think is kinda like putting an old magnet on a fridge, it stick for awhiler but goes away. But never stays and follows ya anywere else (maybe).

you really think there's a devil?

you really think there's a hell?

you really think that because the aztecs didn't believe in jesus and called their god a different name and performed virgin sacrifices that they will go to hell;

because their society was wrong.

by whose standards?

how would you define sin?

are cannibals sinners?

how about atheists?

are they condemned to hell because they don't believe although good people.

do you really think that god is racial profiler and would've saved only jews had it not been for jesus? what were all these other men and who were they created by?

was jesus really the son of god?

a great man

born of deity though;

nice excuse for a chick who was going to have a child out of wed lock in a culture that forbade it; which was probably an arranged marriage; and she got around anyway to the person she really cared about;

couple of months missing the period she says she's pregnant;

when asked who;

god!

i'm a deist.

i don't believe in any religion.

i believe in god.

if god created angels why would he create free will in them; what would be the purpose of creating man?

what would be the purpose of angels anyway?

to carry out god's law?

if god just willed everything into existance; don't you think he'd be able to handle little things;

like already knowing which doors the hebrews would blood over the door during the first passover?

or by letting lot know personally sodom and gamorrah were going to be destroyed.

and why did the angels hurry lot out; is god really constrained to a timetable.

or maybe he had a golf game with gabriel.

god made a universe bound by laws; these laws cannot be broken because it holds the fabric of space-time together.

during the crucifixion the sun was eclipsed for 3 days.

the other side of earth; which was witnessing the birth of great mexican nations at that time would never have happened because that side would have been sent into deep cold. most animal life would have been destroyed.

yet 1500 years later all these things existed when the spaniards came;

maybe the world was flat until columbus made it round?

never blindly accept things;

question them,

i don't believe miracles happen; as yet unexplainable things happen;

like how clinton got elected when i don't know one person who voted for him;

how michael jackson became so big.

what do we learn if everytime we get into trouble god would take care of it.

we'd eventually rebel saying things like i can take care of myself.

mankind the great experiment;

what can they achieve;

why do similar backgrounds spawn divergent personalities;

how come some people handle pain; others dwell on it;

why do we place such importance on things such as land and belief;

why will we kill or be killed for these things;

and all from a creature not much different from the rest of the animals it shared the world with.

at least these are the questions i have; and i believe when i die we will have a conversation; not judgement; conversation over that which has affected me and why i view things the way i do;

remember time is meaningless and is only a property of this universe;

i consider god to be somewhat lonely; and he wants conversation;

what fun would it be to talk to someone who thought exactly the same as you; it would suck and there would be no progression of talk because the thoughts are basically yours.

but to throw a bunch of people out there and give them an eternity(eternity) to become what they will; and then get an insight to an experience god would never know until the very first person died.

i always say this to myself, to ask questions is to learn, to learn is to live. Because life sucks if ya don't learn anything.