The only thing that can be proven is that *something* exists. Everything else is a theory.

What the hell are you babbling about? You can't even prove that you are here. You can't prove that you aren't a figment of your sister's imagination, and you can't prove that you or she exists at all. Just because you believe that you're really alive doesn't mean that *Something* has to be there.

--Sorry if some of this stuff don't make too much sense. I've been up for a few days straight now, and I'm starting to to babble. Just keep an open mind when you read it.--

In reality, you have no idea what Nothing is, so how can you know what Something is?

Now tell me: "Because I have faith."
Screw faith. You think that "God" wants you to just kick back and have everything given to you? You think that he doesn't want you to use your brain and figure things out for yourself; that he wants you to read a book that some old guy wrote ***Which we have no proof that it is the word of God***, and everything will be fine if you do what the book says?

Forget all that crap. You have a brain, so think. We are the only creatures on this planet who can think logically, so why don't half of the people on this planet think at all?

I'll tell you why. Because all of almost every single person's life, he or she has been told what to think from as early as anyone can remember.

So here, let me think for you, since none of you seem to do it naturally.

Why would God give you a brain if he was just going to tell you to not even think about it, just have faith? Sounds pretty kick back to me, right? But isn't one of the seven *Deadly* sins sloth? (you can be lazy not only physically, but also mentally, mind you).

It's like saying "Why do I buy pants if I dont wear them?" You have the object, now put it to use.

It seems to me, that the "god" alot of people follow is in reality the false prophet leading to the coming of the antichrist. I'd watch myself if I believed that everything will be ok if I ask for forgiveness for something I already know is wrong and already feel bad about it.

Has anyone heard of Jesus' Gospel? Some yes, some no. Well, it was supposedly written by Jesus and the main point is, You dont need a church or book to feel God and Jesus, because you are the church. Why haven't some of you heard of that? Because the Roman Catholic Church decided that it wouldn't be good if people found out that they didn't need to pay to get into the heaven they were promised. (And yes they will get in, because "God" is bound by whatever a priest/pastor/religous man says here on earth... I believe it's called Dogma... Go rent the movie by Kevin Smith)


Have you ever noticed that when you do use your brain, you can actually get a bunch of stuff done which you never knew you could? That's because your brain is the most powerful thing on this planet.


We had to decipher the code of electricity, using imaginary symbols to label a quantity of objects. This all came from our brain, and using it logically. So why then, should it be any different with god?

Why would he just tell us that he's there and let our brains' go to waste? It's just not logical.

The most important possession you own is your brain, dont let it get dusty and worn down, especially when it has to do with spirituality.

Under



[This message has been edited by UnderHerCovers (edited 03-05-2001).]

You assume too much.
All i say is that *something* exists.
That does not mean that I am saying I am that something.
Neither am I necessarily saying that God is that something.
If I was a figment of my sister's imagination, then she would have to exist.
If what we are "living" is actually nothing then that doesn't matter, because nothing is actually something. In fact if everything is nothing then nothing is the only something there is.
And that is my point.
Nothing is not necessarily there, but *something* is.

Touche. But how can you say that nothing is something when you dont even know that nothing is really nothing at all, that it may really be something, but at the same time, something may really be nothing.

Under

Everything is nothing.

Especially the headache I just got from reading that.

There there, at least we all get our own heads. So everyone is able to think what they want. I think I'm sorry if you really have a headache.

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=/\__/\=
>'0"0'<
>>>Y<<<

theres no god, no afterlife, no being born again, we have one life, and we should live it to the fullest.

even if we don't jsut have one life, we should still live this one to the fullest just in case.

self-awareness is the proof of existance.

"i think therefore i am"

man and a couple of higher primates are the only animals with self-awareness.

this is tested by putting a mirror in front of them.

very few species have the ability to recognize themselves in the mirror.

and when faced with your image, you cannot deny existance.

as for the afterlife.

i believe there is one rc;

when you die the oldest part of your body is your bones; let's say you die at 80.

your bones are only 30 years old. every other cell in the body is at the most 10.

yet you retain memories from long before this.

you retain memories from a body that doesn't exist anymore. yet you are "self-aware" of events that took place in that body.

i think it's this "consciousness" that survives the death of the body.

lostmind: Just because you look in a mirror, and you think you see you, does not mean you actually see you. What if we are in someone else's dream? Then, in that case, you are not really seeing you. You are not in control of you. There is no you. Do you get what I'm trying to say?


UnderHerCovers: Your right! Since I don't really know what nothing really is...it could really be nothing. What we are living could really be nothing and then nothing would actually be nothing! In that case, I take it back--Nothing can be proven! Wait, I mean, *nothing* can't be proven, but nothing can be proven. If nothing is really nothing and not something, that is @_@.... Well, neway, what I am trying to say is that everything is a theory. The world around us is just a big theory. The books you read, the law of gravity, what your teachers or bosses or whoever tells you...it can't be proven!

=^p


[This message has been edited by person101 (edited 03-07-2001).]

very good, young grasshopper. Now you are beginning to have an OPEN MIND. The fact that what you see or feel or know MAY be right, but it also MAY NOT be.

Under

Alfa and Omega. Begining and end. Life and Death. there allthe same


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----Deathcharmer---
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you are confusing existance with reality.

self-awareness is the proof you exist.

reality is determined by what your senses tell you is there.

and anybody whose done acid can tell you that the reality you're accustomed to can drastically change; but that doesn't make it any less real.

your existance can be defined by self-awareness; the existance of the reality you occupy cannot be defined.

ok ive been thinking about existance too lately.

Every few days i have a new idea, and my ideas change, but something that always is part of the overall picture is the concept of time.

Perodic time (start to finish) is what we as humans are all familiar with, bu before the universe existed how we know it i belive time was much different. Time was one, no start or finish, then it started to expand, the expanded version is what we are living now, the tricky part is that the start and end of our time has already happened, we are just living a kind of cycle that we cant understand, maybe one day we will and the cycle can be broken.
let me try a little diagram


(how is started)
start of time--->|<---end of time

%#%#%#%#%#BIG BANG OR SOMETHING%#%#%#%#%#%#

then time started to expand

start of time--->| **********time as we know it*********** |<--- end of time

but we never really reach the end of time because the time as we know it just keeps expanding and expanding with our universe.

Its a little tricky to understand how my brain is trying to make sensce of time, but it is something that no-one really understands. One day someone will find a simple explanation, it will be a simple E=Mc2 sort of equation and our lives will be changed for ever. (I also belive that time travel will one day be possible so it mightient be the brightest idea to listen to me rationaly)

bye.

lostmind: Existance is part of reality. Imagive reality as everything that is around you, out to space and beyond(?). There are planets, there are stars, then as you get closer to earth, there is the atmosphere, then you zoom in on individual cities, then in on individual people. Zoom in on these people and you see fingers, toes, teeth, etc. Now zoom into their mind. That is their thoughts. It is all part of the same thing--"reality."

Here is an example. I heard this once, but I can't remember where. It was something like, our "spirits" could constantly be changing bodies, but we never know it because each time we switch bodies we get the memory and mind of the person's body we just switched into. You can't prove that this is incorrect, therefore you can't prove that who you see in the mirror is the person you really are. That was really confusing...hope ya understand....

PcThUg2ooo: ive been thinking about time, too. BUt my interest has been more about time...like...in the moment. What I find interesting is the moment that the future becomes the past. like, when exactly does the future become the past. really the present is merely the instant that this transition occurs. also, when you look at your hand when you are like waving it back and forth in front of your face, it is all blurry and stuff. i think that is really weird, and has something to do w/ what i am talking about about the instant that the future becomes the past.

the other thing that is weird to think about is what i was before i was born. its really weird when i start thinking about it.

person101 you are speaking of absolute reality.

we only have percieved reality.

for one who questions existance you seem to think that we "exist" withing reality.

but reality really exists within us.

and accident happens; two cars hit.

three people witness it.

there is one absolute reality.

and there are 5 perceived reailties; all different interpretation of the absolute.

or because they differ from absolute reality make them all liars?

no it is percieved reality which is different for each individual with regards to the same event occuring in absolute reality.

and since we can't see absolute reality because of clouded visions by experience; belief; angle viewed and a million other factors.

absolute reality may not exist; yet consciousness confirms that you do; and even if you are switching bodies the consciousness and memories of a lifetime lived in perceived reality.......

EXISTS.

What about this?
Everyone can seemingly attain something.
No-one can attain true nothing.
We see heaven as something beyond us : some sort of ultimate goal.
Wouldn't heaven then be nothing????

My cousin went loopy a few weeks ago on acid and came up with that. I think it is an interesting little theory.

Cogito, ergo sum / I think, therefor I am

maybr humans are just too dumb to ever figure out what exists.

even if we were somebodys dream or imagination this would stil be our life, where we get our pleasure and our pain.

and we should live this life in search of pleasure.

rc: you think, therefore you think you are

RC- are you king of the sofa? Also do you know latin or just a few quotes?
Are you really considering joining the military? How do you get away with not going to school? Do you hang out with delinquents fluent in Latin? Is the guy who rolled down the hill ok? Whats really going on? I question your existence, so this is on topic. I wonder how many screen names you've used, I wonder if I could guess which ones they were. Some people have all the luck.
Maybe not luck, maybe a good education , huh?

Damn winki, beat me to the punch.

haha.

p.s. your a very 'grounded' person too.. hehe

winki, thats greek not latin.

I was kicked out of school for this semester and last so I am currently taking cyber high (school on computer).

I think my existense is of importance to the human race as I know it but I could be wrong, we'll just have to see of the people of earth will need me.

I am thinking of changing my screen name for the sole purpose that I am bored of this name, if I change my name I will be sure to inform you all.

yes I want to join the army because it trains people for several different things plus they would feed me, shelter me, and take care of me as long as I learn how to fight, shoot, and take pain.

I couldn't see a better trade, I like to learn new things and am sure i won't feel like supporting my self after high school or at least for the first 3-4 years after high school.

I would probably sign up for a 1 year thing and if I am still unsatisfied with what I have gained I will reinlist for another year or two.

quistion my existence but even if I was the figment of anothers imagination I still believe that this is my one life or world and this is my only chance to live so I will live it to the fullest and I will invest in my happyness.

I like not going to school it gives me the opportunity of having a job, or at least to work more hours.



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Cogito, ergo sum

hmm.. rc, it gives you time to work does it?
and you do work right?
or you pretend that your doing school-work, and sit on your computer 24/7?
i think the later will be more correct.

But yes do join the army, it will make you grow up REAL quick.

Just watch out you arent thrown into ground infantry... it would be ashame for ALL that intelligence you have to go to waste. (hmmm.. =P)

To UnderHerSheets -

He can prove that he is "here" very simply. Being "here" is perception. It doesn't matter if he's a figment of his sister imagination or anyones imagination. He is "here", nonetheless. Where ever "here" is is the true debate. For all we know we could be the dream of some alien on a far off planet or in a television show or in a painting somewhere in a museum. But, that's really all irrelevant to being "here".

Cheers,
Lost

i think that somehow you do live when you die. It's your subconsious that awakens itself or your soul. I think that you can still talk but you can't hear your self, it's subconcious like how we can talk to ourselves in our head, or when we read a book quitely. I don't we ever die, one life is not enough to know everything but i do think there is a limit to knowing everything. Omn a take i think that's how lucifer came about, he wanted everything, and to be a god, he perfected his soul way to much and god became angry and so as we know today lucifer is down here with us pissed off.