Just when I thought the Demos got the big picture (they put up their own economic stimulus package instead of just criticizing the one presented by President Bush), then they come up with today. First bill (extension of unemployment benefits) passed by the new Senate majority leader was blasted by the Demos. Same bill that the tax and spend Demos wouldn't do because of perpetual obstructionism was the first passed by the 'New' Senate.

So much for the Democratic mantra of the Republicans only doing things for the wealthy.

Hypocracy thy name is politics.

Nox

I also thought that their criticism of the relaxed dividend tax was wrong as well. It was charachterized as being favorable to the rich, but the diversity of stock ownership these days, means even janitors receive dividends. Everybody benefits, as I see it.

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First bill (extension of unemployment benefits) passed by the new Senate majority leader was blasted by the Demos.

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lol those silly democrats.

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Originally posted by user X:
Everybody benefits, as I see it.

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But how many people can afford enough stock for this to make any significant change in their income? Not many, or at least, no one I know.

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Originally posted by Nyk:
But how many people can afford enough stock for this to make any significant change in their income? Not many, or at least, no one I know.

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True. But that is not my purpose for owning stock. All of my dividends are reinvested. I have no intention of spending the dividends now. That stock is a "savings" plan for retirement to supplement the 'fixed income' that I will have then.

Something tells me that Nox ain't the only one doing that.

Nox

I was looking through the local paper, and in the cons section of a chart on this, they often put "benefits the wealthy."

How is that a con? The wealthy pay most of the taxes anyway.

If the bill was intended to lift janitors out of poverty, then it really would be landmark legislation then wouldn't it?

Besides, the people with the real cash will be more likely to invest in those sorts of industries that pay dividends, and thereby spur on the economy. Everyone benefits from that as well. PROPORTIONALLY speaking that is...

And here is an irony about the whole 'wealthy' bit. Wealthy is defined as a joint income of $92,500 (Husband and Wife combined income, two kids). This makes virtually 100% of all the top Demo's members of the 'wealthy' (and receiving the benefits of same) and signing the "poor man's song".

Gotta love those hypocrites.

Nox

$92K from 2 earners is average middle-class at best.

But that's Demo 'wealthy'. Class warfare at its finest.

Nox

something that never ceases to amaze me is when the perceived left fails to practice what it preaches, and then people act all surprised. there is very little diffrence between the two main parties in america at the moment, and in a time of national stress, the distance between them closes further.

i think america needs a true socialist movement, not this two faced hiprocritical bullshit that you have at the moment.

also, on the package, it looks to me (and although im not an expert at economics, im no fool either) that it is just handouts to the rich. im not sure how less tax on dividends helps those struggling to put food on the table, what i consider the priority. with a frighteningly large gap between rich and poor, i would have thought distribution of income would have been higher on the agenda.

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i think america needs a true socialist movement, not this two faced hiprocritical bullshit that you have at the moment.

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The last thing America needs is a group proclaiming the glory of turning it into a bigger welfare state.

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im not sure how less tax on dividends helps those struggling to put food on the table,

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Thanks to progressive income taxes, you can't cut them if they allready pay zero. The people that you are most heavily concerned with are the ones who receive the benefits of others taxes, not the ones who pay them.

Dividends help the middle class out and add more money to their pocket. It also encourages an entirely new viewpoint in terms of investing. It is a further incentive to invest in the long rerm and this new benefit would change how companies structure their stock plans.

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with a frighteningly large gap between rich and poor,

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Compared to the third world, this gap is not that large at all, and it is shrinking. It is also useful to examine how long people remain poor as a great majority work their way out of it, but their numbers are replaced by immigrants and others.

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Originally posted by RAOVQ:
im not sure how less tax on dividends helps those struggling to put food on the table, what i consider the priority.

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A true statement. However, I cannot think of any tax adjustment which will be equitable across the board including eliminating taxes (some don't pay anyway).

I favor the elimination of double taxing of dividends. I am biased. I own stock. I have always objected to paying tax on my dividends which is a punishment for saving money and contributing to the economy.

Nox

The thing with Democrats is that they play off the fact that a lot of people don't fully understand how this whole tax cut thing works. True, the rich get a little more money out of it, but they pay more in taxes in the first place. In addition to that, in the long run, everyone gets more money.. This is how it works:

The rich get more money. In turn, they invest this money which allows companies to expand. As companies expand, more jobs are created. Thus more people are able to get a pay check (which is better than any tax cut money) and the economic recession will end.

It's just that simple.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RAOVQ:
[B]]

i think america needs a true socialist movement, not this two faced hiprocritical bullshit that you have at the moment.
[QUOTE]

Please dont take this as offense but

Your from Australia. We don't need foreign experts demanding certain political movements etc

America never demands there be a ultra-Right movement in Australia, and we never chime in on every actions your government makes, and criticize it

America could have criticized your retaliation to the Bali bombings (nothing) but it didnt. Neither did the EU. Or the UN. Or the Middle East. We face alot more.

America is slowing turning into a welfare state unfortunetly. I think that welfare in America should be drastically reduced, and the system is in need of a complete overhaul. Less amounts of money need to be handed out, all people trying to get their welfare extended, or trying to get it at first, need to be tightly scrutinized by competant people and forcing them to get a job is a necessity Within the next 20 years, I think that we should only be handing out Welfare to those in dire need, not the lazy. We should be helping ourselves before we help others (cough thinks of the 20 billion we hand out in foreign aid) The days of free handouts should be over

Perhaps a Department of Corrective Labor is needed for people caught cheating the welfare system, or people to lazy to get a job that demand social services.....hmmmmm
MANDATORY DRUG TESTING MUST BE REQUIRED TO HAVE WELFARE
Here's how the process works right now:

A and B
A is the welfare interviewer, B is the lazy bum

A: How can I help you?
B: I need to go on Welfare. I dont have a job.
A: Have you tried to get one? When was the last time you had one?
B: I never had a job.
A: OK...heres 200 bucks, youll get one check every two weeks..
A: Thank you (goes out and spends it on crack) or alternative ending keeps having kids to get more welfare money and doesnt work

[This message has been edited by LebaneseFighter (edited 01-09-2003).]

I'll let NukeChild speak for me on conservative fiscal policy any day. The only thing that I would add, is another distinction between those that receive a lot of dividend income, and those that don't. One group builds factories, the other just works in them.

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Originally posted by RAOVQ:
something that never ceases to amaze me is when the perceived left fails to practice what it preaches, and then people act all surprised. there is very little diffrence between the two main parties in america.

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Yeah, it's pretty much either blunt fucking the employees in the oval office, or getting busted with a prostitute in a New Orleans motel room.

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i would have thought distribution of income would have been higher on the agenda.

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No, education and jobs are a higher priority. America is pretty much meritocratic.