Not too important, but a European friend of mine living in China wrote an email to me in which he talks about their economy...Chucky, notice the straining drive away form agrarian communism toward capitalism (and the typical communist corruption in all levels of government and business).

quote:

---

its cold in beijing. cold winds are descending from the north and engulfing the entire north east region. a heavy snowfall has covered the city for two days but hasn't lasted that long due to the heat drooling from car exhaust's and the rest of the city's carbon emissions. life is sometimes pretty rough out here, and taking me on a whole new dimension from the bumming around i was carrying out back in europe.

there are some good things coming out of the work. most of the projects undertaken are actually helping the development of china's economy - - infrastructure projects such as the export of medical equipment, construction of roads, railways, water retreatment plants, electricity generation plants... i'll be learning more about how the financing is put into place. i'd like to point out that mainly well off areas, benefit from these projects since import licenses are restricted and expensive, making the projects even more dependent on returns. This implies the further increase in income disparities within the provinces, hopefully a waterfall effect could follow.

another little aspect i've been observing about this market is the latent corruption, it's everywhere. this makes me realise it must be that much worse in Africa. having ideals is great, but sometimes the facts of reality slap you harder, and constrain your dreams...

on the positive side, people are doing something about the general poverty. its only through small steps, but better than nothing.

a different approach needs to be set up within a project's development stream. environmental and social impact assessments should be implemented automatically along with the project. its great to develop, spend and build, but shouldn't we think about the long term effects more carefully? institutions should reflexively think about such issues before looking into the financing. responsibility is a core concept. and poorer countries are definetly not aware of this... globalisation and regionalisation are beneficial if experienced institutions in the us, japan and the eu shoulder their newly formed counterparts in africa and south east asia - - this is already happening - - this has already been happening for a while... the media shows us all these problems constantly, bombarding us with the bads of society... when do we ever get told about the efforts being pushed forth in the opposite direction? - - ray bradbury had a good insight, talk about mind absorbing tv screens...

---

The american people are clueless to everything. This is what they "know"
-Economy bad now
-Republicans fix economy
-Terrorists bad
-Republicans fix terrorists
-my wife suspicious of me and me secretary

Homer

I have heard that most Chineese cities are the most technologicaly advanced. It is one of the better examples of Communism.

well since i was born in china, i reckon its about the same, better in some ways, worse in others, and no the people (shanghai) do have freedom, i mean i came to a western country when iwas in the 2nd grade, it didnt seem that different, except people were white(duh).

The american people are clueless to everything. This is what they "know"
-Economy bad now
-Republicans fix economy
-Terrorists bad
-Republicans fix terrorists
-my wife suspicious of me and me secretary
ahahahahahahha homer just cracks me up

The shift is probably a good thing. I will be much more likely to support a semi-Communist regime than a totalitarian Communist system where the basic untested principles of Marxism are used and nothing else will do.

Why can't a Communist country have profit? The profit would go on good things for everyone, and life would be good. Much better than teh idea of Communism making NO profit, and making NO deficit, that would only result in a static country. And nobody would get to play on a SNES. BUT, if profit existed, and SNES existed, the profit of the SNES could go onto providing schools with better PCs, and ultimately, result in a better education system.

totalitarian Capitlaism is as bad (and by my lefty standards worse) as totalitarian Communism. Everything is there to make profit, if it doesn't make a profit then it dies. That's okay, but then we are left with McDonalds and we would lose out on other nice little things which are very expensive to make and are lost because they can't make a profit.

Do you think that Corruption exists only under Communism. It exists much more profusely in Capitlism. It's just legal there, so it can't be called corruption. Bribes and bungs to every politician from the richest businesses so that policy can favour 1% of the population is corruption. And it is rife in America. The only reason you don't notice it is becasue you only notice crime if it is perpetrated by a black guy. "The suspect is descriped as a Black male in his early 20s". How many crimes have been commited on you, and how many of those crimes were by a brother? You may also notice that the government is very white... that must mean they can't commit crimes? Even your own President is a convicted felon, so what hope is there?

In the last 2 years the Republicans have done nothing but cut funding... Exactly WHERE is the saved money going? Err, try Donny Rumsfelds back pocket. "OH , but they can't be stealing from the treasury because it is the Communists who steal" BULLSHIT. The Communists are like Robin Hood, the Capitlaists are like Rob Roy. follow?

Ah... Another day, another ChuckStone post to dismember. Time me, Nox, I think I can beat my old record.

- You support a change in China to a more democratic system, yet in another thread, you just said that China is one of the most democratic nations on the planet, because it has only one party. Please explain this discrepancy.

- Please give an example of "totalitarian capitalism" in world history. Any example at all. Because there are so many out there, aren't there Chuck? Sure there are.

- Give examples of what policies of the American government benefit "the top 1%" at the expense of the rest of the population. Also, support your claim that crime is only noticeable when committed by African-Americans with actual evidence. And all of your charges of racism for that matter. Fuck you, by the way, I happen to love people of all races. Just ask my friends Ahmed, Shir, Khidar, Pao, and Bingyi.

- You level some extremely serious charges at the Bush Administration. Please support them. Unless you can't. Bitch.

- By the by, the "rich" the Robin Hood stole from in the original tale were rich because they were tax collectors, not capitalists. Taxation is a huge part of your beloved communism. I doubt Robin Hood would be on your side here.

TIME!!! How long was that?

Ah another day over another strange tingling as Armed tries to lightly pull at my limbs before giveong up in a failed exhaustion.

-I specified a change to a more CAPITALIST system. Capitlaist is not the same as democratic but I'm sure you already knew that, so I won't bore with you with the fetails. So err, no discrepancy to explain mate (you really screwed up on that particular dismemberance)

-Sorry, I think my vocabulary may be totalitarianly out of whack. I think I meant totally capitalist, like the USA and Indonesia. BUT there are totalitarian capitalist states such as Batista's Cuba, Hitler's Cuba, Bush's America, Indonesia, MOST OF AFRICA AND ASIA. There are plenty to choose from... Somalia, Nigeria, Cote d'Ivoire etc etc and then there is obviously Malasia Singapore and Burma, to a lesser extent.

-from 1979 to now the richest 1% have seen their wages rise by 157% whilst the bottom 20% have actually lost $100 pa (adjusted for inflation). In the last year that there are available figures 44 out of the top 82 corporations have not paid the 35% tax that corporations are expected to pay...17% paid NOTHING, and some such as General Motors have actually paid negative figures in tax (ie, the government paid THEM millions). Also, the first tax cut of Bush's reign...43% went to the richest 1%. Perhaps it was a mistake, but it was big wnough a mistake to be noticed by a 16 year old Brit, so I should think that even the Bear in the Big White House (favourite childhood book is the Very Hungry Caterpillar, which was published when I was the right age). Just think back at all the crimes perpetrated against you in the years, think about how many were done by a white guy, now look at the prison figures and see just how many inmates are black or hispanic and see if they correlate. There is your proof... but I can't be arsed so you do it!

The fact that you have actually named your friends who are of a race other than white is testament to your racism. Whether you love foreigners or not, you have still noticed the fact that they are not white. I'll bet you introduce them as "My Indian friend Ahmed" or "Pao the Jap guy"... until you can look through the skin colour then you will be a racist, albeit a friendly racist and not a paticularly strong racist. Have you ever assumed Ahmed's curry is better than Pao's, do you look at Pao's dog and think "I thought you guys ate them", probably not, but the racial awareness is there and the stereotypes affect you... and if they don't then I apoligise, but that does not change the fact that Culture means that you cross the road to avoid a black gang wearing bandanas, but have you ever been afraid of a white guy wearing his V neck and drinking StarBuck's? Have you ever asked a black dude for some dope because he looks like a rasta? You follow?

-$39m from libraries, 35m from pediatric trainig, 50% off research into renewable energy, research into more effficient cars lost 28%, 200m from training dislocated workers, 200m from Childcare and Development grant, banned connie coveragew for federal employees (though viagra is still covered),700m from public housing repairs, 0.5b from Environmental Protection Agency, 15.7m from child abuse programs, proposed to dig up Alaska. Where does the money go? nobody knows, could go into Iraq, or it could go into Bush's pocket

-Feudal taxation went 100% to the king... muy bad.

Chuck , your numbers are off.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p60-218.pdf

Check out page 21. As I've posted in another thread, in 2001 adjusted dollars, since 1965, we've reduced the number of households that make less than $25k by 1/3 and tripled the amount of households that generate $75k or more.

Where is the $100 lost? Does "pa" stand for per annum? Do you mean that the lower 20% have somehow seen their incomes lowered by $100? Write your thoughts out slower; you make no sense. And CITE YOUR SOURCES, please, otherwise you're immediately discredited.

My opinion (without reading most of the replies)

China is turning into a Totalitarian Socialist country(i.e. 1984)

China is the greatest threat to the US's hegemony.

the loss of $100 pa is after adjustment for inflation (not the most realistic way of assessing what the average disposable income of a demographic group can buy).

I have a feeling that his source was Michael Moore... (I'll leave you to be the judge as to whether that immediately discredits it)

quote:

---

Originally posted by ChuckStone:
Hitler's Cuba

---

Here you go again Chucky. Just exactly where is this place?

Do you ever proof-read your drivel?

Nox

Nox has locked the Che thread, so the battle must be continued here...

- Your tax numbers are mostly wrong, but even where they're technically correct, they're nonetheless misleading. Even when CORPORATIONS actually avoid taxes, the CEOs and other management types didn't. Once they get their share of the profit, they do still have to pay taxes on that - a problem that can't be remedied by simply setting up a holding office offshore. Again, almost 70% of all federal income tax revenues are paid by the top 10% of earners. This is why so much of the Bush taxcut went to "the rich" - they're paying more in the first place.

I ask this in serious curiosity, Chuck. What do you think is an APPROPRIATE tax rate for the rich?

- You've got quite a bit of nerve if you're seriously calling me a racist. For one thing, I haven't had any crimes committed against me in the past year, at least not any committed by individuals (the government on the other hand...). So I'm not sure where the hell you're going with that. And the number of minority individuals incarcerated hardly seems relevant to charges of racism. Does it occur to you that the individuals in captivity, regardless of their race, may have actually COMMITTED the crimes they have been charged with? Can you offer any proof for your claims that all of these minority convicts were discriminated against? If not, I don't see what your point it.

- Your comment about my friends is really just silly. For one, Ahmed is Pakistani, and Pao is Hmong. For Christ's sakes, if you're gonna rag on me for petty crap like this, at least get it right. Secondly, why is it wrong to appreciate the fact that my friends are of a different race than me? What happened to celebrating diversity? All of my friends WANT to be acknowledged as being of a different race. Ahmed is damned proud to be Pakistani; Bingyi's home is decorated with all manner of Chinese artwork; Khadar once regaled our English class with an eloquent reading of the Koran. To simply ignore their race would be silly.

I've never crossed a road to avoid a black gang - I travel in groups and carry multiple weapons. However, I can see why one would. I can also see why you would cross the road to avoid a hispanic gang, or a white gang, or a Jewish gang. It's not because of their race, dumbass, it's BECAUSE THEY'RE A GANG. I don't know about British slang, but here in America, "gang" is generally a term used to describe a group of individuals gathered together for mutual protection and criminal activity. Perhaps this is just a difference of terms here, but if it's not, you're really stretching in search of racism here.

And why would I be scared of a white guy in a v-neck drinking coffee? I'll skip over the fact that you yourself just utilized a racial stereotype, and just point out the fact that a guy sipping coffee, regardless of his race, isn't really a threat to anybody.

- "Where does the money go? Nobody knows..."

By this statement, am I to assume that YOU don't know? And that you're "evidence" of massive Bush Administration corruption is therefore entirely circumstantial and, to a great extent, existent only within your own head?

The white guy in the V neck is the fucker who'll fire you, whou'll sue you, who'll insult your family and then get upset when you take offence. The black dudes are minding their own business.

Now Armed&Angry.... FUCK OFF! There is no battle you immature little shit. And frankly, NOX LISTEN TO ME PLEASE, DELETE THIS POST. DELETE ARMED'S POST AND STOP THIS NOW!

quote:

---

Originally posted by ChuckStone:
The white guy in the V neck is the fucker who'll fire you, whou'll sue you, who'll insult your family and then get upset when you take offence. The black dudes are minding their own business.

Now Armed&Angry.... FUCK OFF! There is no battle you immature little shit. And frankly, NOX LISTEN TO ME PLEASE, DELETE THIS POST. DELETE ARMED'S POST AND STOP THIS NOW!

---

The homeboy who fucked off in school is also getting a college education for no reason other then he's black.

Armed is totally on the mark, and you seem pretty frantic about this post being deleted, I would too, Each and every post you do makes you look like a Blue Ribbon, uneducated fuckup.

Chuck, you fool. There IS a battle. The pursuit of knowledge is, itself, a battle between opposing views; the correct view ultimately wins. Natural selection is at work in more fields than mere biology.

The white guy in the v-neck is sitting there, drinking coffee and minding his own damn business. Wearing a sweater and enjoying an expresso is not, in any way, a coercive act. You assume that, because this gentleman is a white guy drinking coffee, he'll do evil malicious things to others. Why? How is this view NOT racist?

The black dudes, on the other hand, are in a gang. You said so yourself. By the very nature of their association as such, they are likely to be individuals with less of a respect for the rights of other individuals. This isn't because of their race; it's because of their affiliation. I'd say you'd be entirely justified in avoiding such people.

And now you plead for Nox to save you. Funny, you can say whatever you like, up to and including baseless charges of racism and slurs about members of my family, but as soon as you face the terrors of, you know, LOGIC, you cry to the moderator.

Funny how you spent so much time bitching Nox out for his "censorship" - i.e. doing his goddamn job. Now, you want him to exercise his powers towards the very censorship you decry. You're dumb, stubborn, AND hypocritical... my advice would be to wise up, because those three traits will take you nowhere fast.

[quote ] The fact that you have actually named your friends who are of a race other than white is testament to your racism. Whether you love foreigners or not, you have still noticed the fact that they are not white. I'll bet you introduce them as "My Indian friend Ahmed" or "Pao the Jap guy"... until you can look through the skin colour then you will be a racist, albeit a friendly racist and not a paticularly strong racist. Have you ever assumed Ahmed's curry is better than Pao's, do you look at Pao's dog and think "I thought you guys ate them", probably not, but the racial awareness is there and the stereotypes affect you... and if they don't then I apoligise, but that does not change the fact that Culture means that you cross the road to avoid a black gang wearing bandanas, but have you ever been afraid of a white guy wearing his V neck and drinking StarBuck's? Have you ever asked a black dude for some dope because he looks like a rasta? You follow? [/quote]


Are you gonna try and deny everyone's color?
your gonna be blind on true human nature?
Fact is everyone is differnt. age is differnt, sex is, color is, u have to ajust to that. you can't deny it.
lil example. Lets say u wanna bum off a cig ( if ur old enough to smoke )
Would u ask the same way a 67 year old black man for it then u would a 20 year old chinise chick? No?
Why... because they have differnt values, And a differnt amount of respect towards you and ur assface. Why? because you are differnt from them. They know and will treat u differntly and u should not deny it.

wow powerful we have here ladies and gentlemen and of course arm&gay. dude just stay out of it

Wow, that last post would be infinitely more informative it was spelled correctly and put into an English system of grammar. In any case, I think that last bit was a crack at me. "Arm&Gay?" Behold, the stinging wit of TheHurricane! Why, you couldn't find great debate like that anywhere else, except maybe a sixth grade classroom.

I just think its funny that Chuck slings this racist garbage at Nox and Armed while he is obviously racist,just because your racist towards whites doesn't make it ok,but apparently you have been brainwashed by the media who has made it ok to call a person from Virginia a redneck,but if you call a black man a negro,and your in a position of power than the media tears you apar, While it encourages Anti white sentiment, I am not saying that this is some massive conspiracy,but MUCH of the media has a leftist outlook on the world.