My first post. I have been lurking for a while and have finally got my password which took a few tries to get sent to my email.

So the subject. Losing respect of the rest of the world. As the world single super poweer (miltarily speaking anyway) the situation for the world can only be less stable if the rest of the world does not respect it.

The following link talks about three elections where american foreign policy played an important part in the election and the outcomes were not favourable to America.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/DL21Dg03.html

So why is this? Is it because since the fall of the Soviet union the rest of the world see no reason for america to be as powerful as it is and are fearful of it? If so it is likely to be a constant and growing sentiment, likley to end up in arms races and other unstablising actions.

Anyway I'm sure you all have lots of thoughts about whether this matters at all or what the casuses/consequences of this are. Which I would be interested to hear.

Will P

Envy, it's as simple as that, the rest of the world is jealous of America's military and economic superiority.

The United has been a part of the worlds envy for so long. The history will back this up that we have been a bad ass country. Although with these bleeding heart liberals with gun control and pussy bullshit they are making America soft, thus loosing respect. By the way when there was not any gun control laws in this country the crime rate in all major cities was significantly lower. The only people that were getting shot were the criminals.

-kick ass

I'm not sure how much respect we have left to lose.

Get a load of you wankers

The only person that left this topic with dignity was Armed&angry.

For fucks sakes, no one respects or evies your government, people, Stupid Laws, Idiotic President and shady History.

I would be more jealous of a cancerous wart.

Dare i mention it, Sept 11th was an eye opener for the americans, you were all like "why dont you like us." And many people left the state of mind at the thought "people hate us since Sept 11th" well get this, people hated, hate, and will hate you. The fact that you have more than enough supplies in food for the planet and still Americans are starving let alone other nationalities.

Chief Running bull once said in 1879 (when seeing the depression)

"White man make all he ever need, but all white man need is to distribute"

So no one hates you more or less than ever, and no one is jealous of America.

(Sorry to offend)

Everybody be careful of your generalisations.

I would agree that some people envy the US, but the majority? I don't think so. To take the bully or policeman example. I don't think the worlds people want their country to become the worlds policeman/bully they just want america to stop being one. (This may not be rational but then since when were humans rational )

But also to say no-one respects or envies US is wrong. I think Fox Leonard of this board is an example of the former.

Now there was a time when the US (as powerful as it is now, and so probably as envied) protected the rest of the free world from the red threat, and I think that the US was more widely respected thenm than it is now. So what has changed? Is it simply the decaying of the communist threat or is it something else?

Will P

quote:

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Originally posted by Revolutionist:
The United has been a part of the worlds envy for so long. The history will back this up that we have been a bad ass country. Although with these bleeding heart liberals with gun control and pussy bullshit they are making America soft, thus loosing respect. By the way when there was not any gun control laws in this country the crime rate in all major cities was significantly lower. The only people that were getting shot were the criminals.

-kick ass

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You know why the crime rate was lower then? We had the oppurtunity (here in Ohio atleast, concealed weapons aren't allowed anymore) to shoot a criminal that was fucking with us. Now, the criminals are possessing firearms that are against MODERN laws, therefore, being listed as a crime, and the crime rate appears to go up, though, to me, some crimes are okay, simply for the fact that almost every new piece of legislation places even more control over the people.

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Originally posted by piggarro99:
The only person that left this topic with dignity was Armed&angry.

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I probably won't leave with what you call dignity either, especially since I don't agree with much of what you said.

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Originally posted by piggarro99:
no one respects or evies your government, people, Stupid Laws, Idiotic President and shady History.

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Not true:

Many governments are modeled after ours.

Many people around the world watch Hollywood products and emulate what they perceive as the 'American way' (although it isn't).

As long as you are refering to Bill Clinton as idiotic, I agree. Seems to me that a whole bunch of world leaders are following President Bush's lead in topics concerning Iraq.

And let us not get into the area of any countries' history. Maybe you can help me out and find the singular country in all of history that doesn't have a 'shady history'.

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Originally posted by piggarro99:
Dare i mention it, Sept 11th was an eye opener for the americans, you were all like "why dont you like us."

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That may be your opinion of us, but it was not the way I felt.

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Originally posted by piggarro99:
The fact that you have more than enough supplies in food for the planet and still Americans are starving let alone other nationalities.

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I assume that this statement doesn't also apply to your native land, nor the native land's of most of our Totse posters? No sarcasm intended, but: What is your point here?

quote:

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Originally posted by piggarro99:
Chief Running bull once said in 1879 (when seeing the depression)

"White man make all he ever need, but all white man need is to distribute"

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I need a history lesson here. Chief Running bull was from what tribe? We had a Chief Sitting Bull from the Lakota Sioux Nation and a Chief Crazy Horse, however, the name of Chief Running bull escapes me. I'll have to go back and check, but the 'Depression of 1879' escapes me as well. I am familiar with the 'Depression of 1873' but this depression was over a full two years before Chief Sitting Bull slam dunked Georgie Custer.

*Nox hopes this isn't another Brit trying to be an expert in US History*

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Originally posted by piggarro99:
So no one hates you more or less than ever,

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Here we agree.

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Originally posted by piggarro99:
and no one is jealous of America.

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Here we disagree.

quote:

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Originally posted by piggarro99:
Get a load of you wankers

(Sorry to offend)

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This statement offends me ... pretty weak apology.

Nox

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Originally posted by piggarro99:
So no one hates you more or less than ever,
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quote:
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Originally posted by Nox:
Here we agree
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I beg to differ. Have a look at the below poll review which suggests negative views of the US in the rest of the world is on the rise.
http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=165

Will P

Don't think for one second that these polls tell you anything.

The folks that hate the US, still hate the US.

The folks that don't hate the US, still don't hate the US.

The undecided still don't care.

This is called create news for a slow news day. We have nothing else for a headline so we will create one. Remember, bad news sells. Do you think there will ever be a 'world wide' poll that says the world 'likes' the USA. Aviating pigs will happen first. The closest the US will ever get to a positive world view is after another Del Monte Whoop-ass session like in 1991. And even that will be very, very short lived.

So these bogus topics that are initiated by non-Americans with the intent of somehow demeaning Americans are a bore. I guess I should start a topic about the respect for the Queen, or Princess Anne, or Bonnie Prince Charlie, or respect for the French, or respect for ...(fill in the blank).

This stuff inhales abruptly.

Nox

the only history that i know of is the russian revolution.

But i feel that this topic just goes to show that people are really up their own backsides over how good they percieve america to be.
The people losing dignity in this thread were the people who exclaimed all those that hated America were jealous of it.

Ok then, the system that you have set up in America was well put together and intergrated. It is the amount of Skullduggery that goes on in between those lines that lets the problems in to the USA system...

It must have been 1873, as i trust your knowlegde on that one. I also find the way that if i make a mistake on the history of a country that you typecast me as "another Brit trying to be an expert in US History"

i merely made a mistake with the evidence that i used to placate the argument that i was chosing to defend.

I am willing to compromise on the fact that the American system of politics isnt flawless yet it is well atuned to the Modern World. Where as the people that it puts forward to represent its powers are the reason that there could be at a downfall.

Tho the way that i put forward my last rampage was somewhat vulgar i stand by some of the comments that i made...

[This message has been edited by piggarro99 (edited 12-23-2002).]

Something to Add

Just because someone puts there hand up and says, i hate america in a poll one day, doesnt mean to say that they never hated america before hand, people can not just suddenly go from love to hate of ones Anarchtrialistic Compositions. It has to be a system of a down.

Merry Christmas Nox and everyone else (incase i dont see you all before hand)

I'm curious why you think I am trying to demean the US. I am simply trying to find out what citizens of the US think about the worsening view of people in the rest of the world, that I see. I have noticed it in the media and other places as well, however these do not translate well to the internet so I got something that I thought was a reasonable view of what I see around me.

Even in the simplistoc model where people do not change their minds, there will be some shift in opinion as pro or anti people die off to be replaced by pro or anti people, unless the ratio doesn't change.

I don't mind if you want to start a topic about our royal family but please do so in the spurious section where they belong , definately not politics. Please note this is only marginally about america, this is also about the rest of the world. I have not criticised the US at all, even though I don't agree with their policy, because I am more interested in the interaction between the US and the rest of the world and what will be the results of this, than in trying to get the US to change.

Merry Xmas and all that

Will P

i feel the royal family belong in a bag at the bottom of the see, and i as a tax payer would happily pay for it, then it would cut short the wages i would have to give them.

Pigaro, how can you talk about America when you don't even live here.

YOu said that there is a surplus of food that America has.

Then answer this for me. Why do so many American go to bed hungry every night?

I would rather live in America then any other country. It allows the most freedom and is not as oppressive as most European governments.

You do not see the U.S. passing all these ant-racsim laws that stifle freedom of speech. If you were to come to the U.S. you would see that is not that bad.

It is true that some people don't like America, but I would bet money that MORE PEOPLE HATE ISRAEL THEN THE U.S.

Some people in America don't like France or even the U.K.

This opinion will always be in the eye of the beholder. What does it matter if someone hates this country? I would like to live here over any where else in this world.

quote:

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Originally posted by piggarro99:
Ok then, the system that you have set up in America was well put together and intergrated. It is the amount of Skullduggery that goes on in between those lines that lets the problems in to the USA system...

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True. But how is this any different than anywhere else on the planet? Let us use Venezuela as our most recent example.

quote:

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Originally posted by piggarro99:
It must have been 1873, as i trust your knowlegde on that one. I also find the way that if i make a mistake on the history of a country that you typecast me as "another Brit trying to be an expert in US History"

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I respect you Piggarro. Yes, that was a nasty shot, but there is a certain Sheffield person who has tried to slur American history and that was the reference. As far as the 1873 part, be careful of that analogy and do additional research on 'Chief Running bull'. The problem is with this error (error of fact) is that it destroy's your point and/or argument. Right now (unless I am corrected later) I see three separate errors in one error of fact: 1. Chief Running bull, 2. Depression of 1879, 3. The quote itself.

You normally have great posts, but this one did not come off well.

quote:

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Originally posted by whazat:
I'm curious why you think I am trying to demean the US. I am simply trying to find out what citizens of the US think about the worsening view of people in the rest of the world, that I see.

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While your observation may be correct (from your perspective), I think that the average Joe-sixpack in this country could care less what the rest of the world thinks of him/us. I think the words from a song entitled "Garden Party" sum up the Joe-sixpack attitude: "Ya see you can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself". Your thought process on this topic is far to esoteric. Americans are so used to having some group or groups throughout the planet hating us for one thing or another, that some 'make news' poll about the world hating us even more is absolutely meaningless. The situation has its equivalency during the days of the British Empire. Was the average Brit at the time even the least bit concerned about what anyone (French included) thought? Hardly.

So you are getting defensive about my response. Don't. You may think we should care ... we don't. We are tired of having the rest of the World preach morality to us.

quote:

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Originally posted by whazat:
I don't mind if you want to start a topic about our royal family but please do so in the spurious section where they belong , definately not politics.

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I will not do. And if I did, I promise you that it would be right here in politics where it belongs. Please don't tell me that the royals aren't politics incarnate. O yes, they are definately Comedy Channel material, but they are total politics - by definition if nothing else.

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Originally posted by whazat:
Merry Xmas and all that

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Thank you. And I wish the same to you and yours. Remember (as you have), we can disagree without being disagreeable.

Nox

i post here for the arguments.

Having mainly met americans whilst not travelling in america, might give me a slightly esoteric view of them and a biased view of americans as well.

Americans should care what all the rest of the world thinks about them. Not for moralities sake, just for there own self-interest. The US's economic domination relies upon the dollar being the international trade currency to enable the deficit spending. But this also relies on people around the world accepting the dollar and not trading in something else (the ones I have heard about for Oil are the Euro and the Gold Dinar).

No doubt the brits ignored anti-british sentiment but eventually the sentiment grew in places like India and America! to our detriment.

Will P

some people may be jelous that the US has economic stability, but why would England give a fuck about your history, we have about 2000 years more history that you. damn, we gave birth to your country, it was us that founded it!

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Originally posted by Mr_Dont_Give_A_F�ck:
it was us that founded it!

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You get little argument about this from me. That was not my point. My point is that the nuances of any countries history require a deeper perspective than a mere cursory glance.

Many folks will take an event in isolation without considering the related issues. I will use a current American 'problem' as an example: Trent Lott and his "racist" comments. What a joke. There was little if any racism in the remark although his political enemies said there was. Even good old Hillary is hopping on the bandwagon- however, this is to be expected from the wife the America's "first black president".

My point, outsiders looking at the Trent fiasco need to be aware of all the other goings-on to get a clear perspective. If you haven't been following it closely, you miss it. This is even more true when you go back in history.

Nox

So then, all i can say about the trent Thing is that (even though i keep up to date with the politics of USA) i never even knew this was happening.

I feel so idiotic, or is that the way American Scandals work

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Originally posted by punkrawkerstonershit:
Pigaro, how can you talk about America when you don't even live here.

YOu said that there is a surplus of food that America has.

Then answer this for me. Why do so many American go to bed hungry every night?

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You just opened your mouth and let it flap.
i feel that America does have enough for all the rest of the world, but will not share it at all with (at least) other Americans let alone the rest of the world
((its tenuously suggested in this quote))

quote:

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Posted By Piggarro99:
The fact that you have more than enough supplies in food for the planet and still Americans are starving let alone other nationalities.

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I find this thread strange in the fact that people are writing things and they are being over looked, then we are getting all the whinging back and we then have to re-iterate what we said.

My final thought is that if anyone liked america they still do and not everyone is Jealous of America.

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posted by punkrawkerstoner:
Pigaro, how can you talk about America when you don't even live here.

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This is but a saga now.
A) piggarro99
B) i still have an opinion and i find it tragic it is less blind then yourself.

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posted by punkrawkerstoner:
I would rather live in America then any other country. It allows the most freedom and is not as oppressive as most European governments.

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Lol lets all cast back to the Patriot act, remember that, oh wait it is still in progress

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posted by punkrawkerstoner:
It is true that some people don't like America, but I would bet money that MORE PEOPLE HATE ISRAEL THEN THE U.S.

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What use does saying this really have in this topic, i mean really this is digression of the highest order, i am not exactly great at this nit picking, but come one. Stay on Topic. I think you will find that saying more hate this than that will not get very far in the way of the World.

quote:

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posted by punkrawkerstoner:
This opinion will always be in the eye of the beholder.

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In this whole post you have not added an opinion, rather other topics, and some miscellaneous rabbling.

Help me out here, what are you getting at.

[This message has been edited by piggarro99 (edited 12-24-2002).]

[This message has been edited by piggarro99 (edited 12-24-2002).]

quote:

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Originally posted by piggarro99:
i feel that America does have enough for all the rest of the world, but will not share it at all with (at least) other Americans let alone the rest of the world

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I can think of a couple other countries that export food ... Canada and Australia. Does your argument hold true for those countries as well?

Nox

It is not America's responsibility to feed the rest of the world.

i understand it is not their place, but surely they can put something in to the world to make it a better place.

I mean i dont care if they use it as a propaganda tool.

Oh and nox, the topic is on America, so i will not hold up to any comparison arguments,

America not Australia (and fuck venezuala)