The Homeland Security Bill is a dis-service to the people of this country, the Constitution, and our founding fathers. I am becoming more and more aware of the facts surrounding the H.S. Bill.

When I said, "there will be no new domestic intelligence department", I forgot that the Information Office already exists.

Terrorists are not a threat to your freedom. They are a threat to your security.

Why cant this country fight this war and win, while still upholding the constitution?

The Homeland Security Bill will pass and become law this week. The senators voting on this bill have not even read it. It is over 400 pages long!

This is worse than the patriot act. The HS bill will make the Patriot Act look like a cakewalk. The courts will uphold this un-Constitutional, asswiping-worthy legislation.

Why does everybody on totse and otherwise not realize the true impact of this legislation. People who express "subversive" viewpoints are the target. This means we will be catagorized with the craziest on totse.

Fuck John Poindexter!

Write your senators and tell them to vote NO on the Homeland Security Bill.

Homeland Security Bill:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:h.r.05005:

Write Congress:
http://www.congress.org

"I hate the government and love America"

-Rep. Jim Traficant


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

-Benjamin Franklin


"The aggregate happiness of the society, which is best promoted by the practice of a virtuous policy, is, or ought to be, the end of all government . . . ."

-George Washington


"There ought to be limits to freedom."

-George W. Bush, May 21, 1999

I am with you!!!!!!!!1
This government has gotten more facist and more dictatorial since it's creation.
"subversive speech" has been a pet peeve of the government since god knows when. until mid-1900s, any literature on birth control was considered subversive. After WWII, communist speech or association was punnishable (fucking mcarthy). Poindexter is just another mcarthy, and we have plenty of those.

Homer

The lack of media coverage on what is in the bill is mabye why not alot people are talking about it. Reportors may have not read copies of the bill because they have little time to read it all.

So inform us what is in the bill besides law suit protection for companies who produce small-pox vaccines or at least tell me your sources.

Ok, Ok.

The bill establishes the "Total Information Awareness" Program, which I have talked about extensively. If you dont know, see theh "Information Awareness Office" topic, started by yours truly.

I DO NOT want this thing to pass!!!


Here's the bill (source #1):
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:h.r.05005:

Here's the NY Times article (source #2):
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/14/opinion/14SAFI.html?ex=1037854800&en=3778829e1bec3dc2&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

Here's Neal Boortz's rant on it (source #3):
http://www.boortz.com/nov14-02.htm

Here's the ACLU's take on it (source #4)(should be on front page):
http://www.aclu.org

Ugggh!!!!


11/19/2002: Homeland Security Bill passes Senate 90-9.

Now, what does this mean for you? You probably won't notice personally. But what you CAN count on is that somebody is looking at your drivers license photo/mugshot and comparing your credit card records, medical records, employment history, tax payment history, phone records, every internet site you go to, and/or criminal history, all because you post on totse. I guaran-fucking-tee it. It will happen.

We will be targeted. So watch your step.

I call on everybody who loves freedom and privacy to inform us all of who is/isn't volunteering information to the federal government. I will attempt to start a boycott of any company giving my personal info to the feds. I will close my bank account. I will pay in cash. I will leave no paper trail.

The feds can find my rants on the internet. I will not cower in the face of John Poindexter, and I will not shut up. Fuck you, Poindexter!

This is a violation of 1st and 4th amendment rights under the 9th amendment.

The Ninth Amendment to the Constitution:

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

What does this mean? This means that the phone and internet were not around in 1789. Therefore, they could not enumerate these freedoms specifically, but they wanted to protect them. George Dubya Bush and Bill O'Reilly are construing the Constitution into whatever they want.

Personal, financial, and medical privacy are your rights, Goddammit! This is what Jefferson was talking about!

Our founding fathers realized that they could not conceive of what the future holds, and the ninth amendment was intended to insure that social changes and technology would not be used to deny the people of basic liberties.

It is now in the hands of Dubya. He holds the key to Door #1 of great freedom and Door #2 of fascism and civil war. Which is it, Dubya? Dubya is a good leader, where will he lead us?

Dudya can kill this program of "Total Information Awareness" while still reforming the federal bureacracy with the DHS. I truly hope he chooses freedom. The power lies with one man.

Dont choose Door #2, Dubya. Nobody wants fascism and civil war. If the government wont enforce the Constitution, then the people will. The people should reclaim the states and the title of "The United States of America". Fuck the federal government. What 'cha gonna do about it Poindexter? You dont have shit on me!

What the fuck we do now?


I think its time to leave this country because of this. If I do not leave, I might die because of some so called mistake in them dossiers.

Is there any way to get accepted in a foriegn army such as swedens or the dutch's army? Because people told me here to get in id have to have a skill or something to contribute to that country I wish to reside in and to me, enlisting in one of those countries' armys would be the way to contribute.
[This message has been edited by gombowlzombie (edited 11-20-2002).]

[This message has been edited by gombowlzombie (edited 11-20-2002).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by gombowlzombie:
What the fuck we do now?


I think its time to leave this country because of this. If I do not leave, I might die because of some so called mistake in them dossiers.

Is there any way to get accepted in a foriegn army such as swedens or the dutch's army? Because people told me here to get in id have to have a skill or something to contribute to that country I wish to reside in and to me, enlisting in one of those countries' armys would be the way to contribute.
[This message has been edited by gombowlzombie (edited 11-20-2002).]

[This message has been edited by gombowlzombie (edited 11-20-2002).]

---

It is not time to leave this country. That would be letting them win. It is time to protest this infringement of our rights. Although the loudest of us believe in this law, we cannot let them win over the silent majority or the ignorant majority.
We must also hold all hope that legal suites against this law force it into unconstitutionsl status, that is all that can be done.

And although I try to keep my political beliefs secular, I am going to say this once:
Whatever belief system you have, Islamic, Christian, Hindu, Jewish, Buddhist, or any others, please pray that this law is struck down. We need all the help we can get

Homer

Far as Im concerned, trying to get a politician or a power hungry military agent to listen or at least obey the constitution is a worthy cause but its a dying one. All the constittion does is delay the govermental abuses yet to come or make the goverment do them in secrect. So if leaving allows them win, let it be. No point trying because they will get us all in the long run. That what I believe from what I am seeing what is happening now.

No one is going to stop this law. Everyone is going to think its in their best interest because the media tells them its to get terrorists and crimminals and
politicians certainly are going to let it through because it gives them more power.

I doubt people will revolt when orwell's nightmare becomes a brutal reality and if they did, it be sucidial to start it within the U.S or near U.S borders.

[This message has been edited by gombowlzombie (edited 11-21-2002).]

Dude, I seriously dont know what is going to happen to this country. As Neal Boortz put it, this is the biggest violation of privacy rights in this country in 235 years.

Screw the federal government. I refuse to back down and withhold my shit-talking for fear of government retaliation.

The problem lies with the majority of people. The majority of people dont know their rights. The majority of people are willing to give up their rights. The majority of people don't understand the importance of rights. The majority of people are goddamn stupid.

Go to hell, John Poindexter!

Yesterday, Attorney General John Ashcroft compared Total Information Awareness to soap companies using marketing information. What an asshole. What a jerkass. It is happening, folks.

This is a clear and present danger to freedom. It is unconstitutional. It gives the people of this country the constitutional, and therefore legal right, to act appropriately to defend their rights. You fill in the blank, people.

"I think the kinds of technology that can sell soap in America should be available to help secure the people of America."

-Attorney General, John Ashcroft


So, do you think you Constitutional rights are as important as the type of soap you use?

Go screw yourself, Ashcroft!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by buttthrax (edited 11-21-2002).]

I am in total agreement with you. I wish for a new government, that some group of people, somewhere in this country, realize what is going on, and would fight to put in a new government. I am sick of the corruption and of the losing of our freedom, which we've been guaranteed for over 220 years now.

Dammit, gombowlzombie, don't go bailing on us. The opponents of this stuff need every man and woman they can get.

But, in answer to your question, you can join certain foreign armies. Perhaps most famous is the French Foreign Legion - anybody can join. However, you have to spend ten years as a French rapid respons trooper. Basically, that means you run to any trouble spots and catch bullets while the big boys get into place. Plus the law forbids the Legion from ever operating in France, so you'll usually be stuck in some God-forsaken African hellhole. But if you can get through ten years of that, you get French citizenship no questions asked. Why you would want to throw in with those cheese-eating surrender monkeys is beyond me, but hey, do what you feel.

Dont want to join the french legion. I prefer a swedish military or some thing of that sorts. If that dont work, im going to try to finish my nursing major quickly as possible.

Plus I need military experience of some sort. Just not from the us army. Thats gambling with my life.

Plus it aint exactly bailing out. Its called fighting from afar. That way if they disagree with what I am doing, I'd be outa their juristiction.

[This message has been edited by gombowlzombie (edited 11-21-2002).]

You are dreaming gb.

If you want milltary exp. join the US milltary.

Any other place will treat you like a worthless piece of human flesh if you are a foreigner, let alone being an American.

Now let's get back to the subject here at hand folks.

Homeland Security is and will be a joke.

It will be used more for political power moves then anything else.
The idoitic whims, of course, are rearing their ugly heads as we speak.

The problem here though is that when a country is founded, the main purpose of that nation is lost after a few generations.

Turns into a power-hungry animal.

Revolt it the result, and the cycle starts all over again.

I am beginning to belive this nation is starting to forget its ideals and reasons to why it exist in the first place.

We, as the thinking miniory, must remind our fellow civillians about the foundations of this country.

I don't think Ashcroft (or any other person in fact) is wise enough to help lead this nation through the bowels of hell, let alone to reap the benefits of roped soap in certain shower rooms.



[This message has been edited by FourUntoFive (edited 11-23-2002).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by gombowlzombie:
Dont want to join the french legion. I prefer a swedish military

---

If you could come on Monday Nov 25, it would be perfect for us. We are one man short in the 23d ski-batallion.

And bring warm clothes. You will be stationed in Lappland, in the far north of Sweden.

Hope to see you then...

FoxLeonard (2nd Commander of the 23 ski-batallion)

quote:

---

Originally posted by FoxLeonard:
If you could come on Monday Nov 25, it would be perfect for us. We are one man short in the 23d ski-batallion.

And bring warm clothes. You will be stationed in Lappland, in the far north of Sweden.

Hope to see you then...

FoxLeonard (2nd Commander of the 23 ski-batallion)

---

Damn I dont think Id make in 3 days.

Plus I dont want to go into the us army for
health reasons(aka, possible war with Iraq). If I get treated like crap in the swiss army, so what?

[This message has been edited by gombowlzombie (edited 11-24-2002).]

How did the Swiss military get into this post???

>> buttthrax
>> posted 11-19-2002 16:30
>>
<snip>
>> The Homeland Security Bill will pass and >> become law this week. The senators voting >> on this bill have not even read it. It is >> over 400 pages long!
>>
<snip>

While reading and weeping over the HomeLand Security Act of 2002, I stumbled on to the fact that the 107th Congress first introduced a "National Homeland Securtiy Agency" Bill on 03/21/01. Yes, that is NOT a typo.

March 21, 2001 == two months after the Election 2000 Coup and just short of six months before the 09/11/01 tragedy.


[Can't put the link to Thomas as it will "Temporary file open error. Display failed," but it's semi-easy to search.]

I will post a snipping:
=======================
=======

13. H.R.1158 : To establish the National Homeland Security Agency.
Sponsor: Rep Thornberry, William (Mac)
Committees: House Government Reform
Latest Major Action: 4/24/2001 House committee/subcommittee actions.
Status: Joint Hearings Held by the Subcommittee on Economic Development,
Public Buildings and Emergency Management and by the Subcommittee on
National Security, Veterans Affairs, and International Relations
(Government Reform Committee).

===============================

Bill Summary & Status for the 107th Congress
H.R.1158
Sponsor: Rep Thornberry, William (Mac)(introduced 3/21/2001)
Related Bills: H.R.4660
Latest Major Action: 4/24/2001 House committee/subcommittee actions.
Status: Joint Hearings Held by the Subcommittee on Economic Development,
Public Buildings and Emergency Management and by the Subcommittee on
National Security, Veterans Affairs, and International Relations
(Government Reform Committee).
Title: To establish the National Homeland Security Agency.
Jump to: Titles, Status, Committees, Related Bill Details, Amendments,
Cosponsors, Summary
TITLE(S): (italics indicate a title for a portion of a bill)

* POPULAR TITLE(S):
Federal Office to Combat Terrorism bill (identified by CRS)
Homeland Security bill (identified by CRS)

* SHORT TITLE(S) AS INTRODUCED:
National Homeland Security Agency Act

* OFFICIAL TITLE AS INTRODUCED:
To establish the National Homeland Security Agency.

STATUS: (color indicates Senate actions)

See also: Related House Committee Documents

3/21/2001:
Referred to the House Committee on Government Reform.

4/23/2001:
Referred to the Subcommittee on National Security, Veterans Affairs and
International Relations.

4/24/2001:
Joint Hearings Held by the Subcommittee on Economic Development, Public
Buildings and Emergency Management and by the Subcommittee on National
Security, Veterans Affairs, and International Relations (Government Reform
Committee).
COMMITTEE(S):

Committee/Subcommittee: Activity:
House Government Reform Referral
Subcommittee on National Security, Veterans Affairs and
International Relations Referral

RELATED BILL DETAILS: (additional related bills may be indentified in
Status)

Bill: Relationship:
H.R.4660 Related bill identified by CRS

AMENDMENT(S):

***NONE***
COSPONSORS(16), ALPHABETICAL [followed by Cosponsors withdrawn]:
(Sort: by date)


Rep Crowley, Joseph - 3/5/2002
Rep English, Phil - 9/14/2001
Rep Fletcher, Ernest L. - 12/12/2001
Rep Foley, Mark - 10/4/2001
Rep Ganske, Greg - 10/12/2001
Rep Hall, Ralph M. - 10/4/2001
Rep Hart, Melissa A. - 9/21/2001
Rep Hastings, Alcee L. - 9/21/2001
Rep Myrick, Sue - 9/24/2001
Rep Pickering, Charles (Chip) - 10/11/2001
Rep Ryun, Jim - 5/15/2001
Rep Shays, Christopher - 3/7/2002
Rep Tauscher, Ellen O. - 9/21/2001
Rep Taylor, G. - 9/24/2001
Rep Udall, Mark - 11/6/2001
Rep Weldon, Dave - 10/30/2001

SUMMARY AS OF:
3/21/2001--Introduced.

National Homeland Security Agency Act - Establishes a National Homeland
Security Agency. Requires the Agency's Director, who shall serve as an
advisor to the National Security Council, to: (1) plan, coordinate, and
integrate those U.S. Government activities relating to homeland security,
including border security and emergency preparedness, and act as a focal
point regarding natural and manmade crises and emergency planning; (2)
work with State and local governments and executive agencies in protecting
U.S. homeland security and support State officials through the use of
regional offices around the country; (3) provide overall planning guidance
to such agencies regarding homeland security; (4) establish command and
control procedures for potential contingencies, including those that
require military assets; and (5) annually develop a Federal response plan
for homeland security and emergency preparedness.

Transfers to the Agency the authorities, functions, personnel, and assets
of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the U.S. Customs Service, the
Border Patrol of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, the U.S.
Coast Guard, the Critical Infrastructure Assurance Office and the
Institute of Information Infrastructure Protection of the Department of
Commerce, and the National Infrastructure Protection Center and the
National Domestic Preparedness Office of the Federal Bureau of
Investigation.

Establishes within the Agency: (1) separate Directorates of Prevention,
Critical Infrastructure Protection, and Emergency Preparedness and
Response; and (2) an Office of Science and Technology to advise the
Director with regard to research and development efforts and priorities
for such directorates.

Requires the Director to establish mechanisms for the sharing of
information and intelligence with U.S. and international intelligence
entities.

========


(I'm lost in thought about the Reagan Adminstration's excess of "National Security Directives," one of which, as I recall, had a similiar plan to be initiated during a crisis [partially administered through FEMA] - it was a popular conspiracy-theorist item back in the day.)


<sigh>
We *were* warned by President Eisenhower....






[This message has been edited by ksandre (edited 11-24-2002).]

How could they do this?
I am starting to subscribe more and more to the theory that the government either did 9-11 themselves or that they knew the event was to take place and failed to stop it.
what I know for sure is that someone behind the scenes is engineering this to achieve their own ends.

Homer

quote:

---

Originally posted by gombowlzombie:
Plus it aint exactly bailing out. Its called fighting from afar. That way if they disagree with what I am doing, I'd be outa their juristiction.

[This message has been edited by gombowlzombie (edited 11-21-2002).]

---

There is absolutely NO PLACE ON EARTH that is out of the jurisdiction of the USA!

quote:

---

Originally posted by MR END:
There is absolutely NO PLACE ON EARTH that is out of the jurisdiction of the USA!

---

YEah but they would have to be more polite towards a foriegn country and actaully go through the courts to get me instead of knocking down my door and beating me to death.

seriously, you guys are fucked.

well, i suppose the small butthole towns of northern canada can prepare for another invasion of americans fleeing their own oppressive government, just like in the 60's. welcome to soviet canuckistan...high taxes, universal healthcare, no uncle sam?

I've read it.
Don't get it.

Most of these current agencies will be sevring under another agency?!?!?!?

Oooookkkkkkaaaaaayyyyy.....

What does this bill really do?
Is it (in threoy) to help 'pull' all these agencies' resourses together?
Or is it to help 'ease' the minds of American sheeple?


And gomble,

So what if they get what they want in the end?

Longer you fight them, the more time you have to plan and to prepare for the outcome, possibly even getting them to compremise or change their main adjective(s).

http://www.totse.com/en/conspiracy/institutional_analysis/167500.html

Worth a read, in regards to just this sort of event..

quote:

---

Originally posted by FourUntoFive:
I've read it.
Don't get it.

Most of these current agencies will be sevring under another agency?!?!?!?

Oooookkkkkkaaaaaayyyyy.....

What does this bill really do?
Is it (in threoy) to help 'pull' all these agencies' resourses together?
Or is it to help 'ease' the minds of American sheeple?


And gomble,

So what if they get what they want in the end?

Longer you fight them, the more time you have to plan and to prepare for the outcome, possibly even getting them to compremise or change their main adjective(s).

---

Its nice you are getting into the forums.

SHould I tell these poeple who you are?

[This message has been edited by gombowlzombie (edited 11-26-2002).]