How can idiots actually think the holocaust did not happen? Are people not convinced by the statistics and pictures of near-dead jews, jypsies, homosexuals, and others?

The only way to not believe the holocaust is this: one of their ancestors must have been born out of copulation between brother and sister.
Or in layman's terms, the person must be an inbread mountain person, or must be descended from a group of inbread mountain people.

It is that simple. One must have severe genetic defincies to actually buy into that shit.

If you think the holocaust did not happen,
a)fuck you
b)go to hell
c)Find me some evidence. GOOD EVIDENCE.

Homer

Patton was convinced that the holocaust happened. He was so enraged by it that he gathered all the local German villagers and marched them through concentration camps demanding how they could either tolerate or not know that this was going on in their back yard.

Define "The Holocaust" first.

quote:

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Originally posted by TheMouse:
Define "The Holocaust" first.

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Are you really that stupid?

The holocaust = The mass extermination by nazis of millions of gypsies, homosexuals, jews, etc. In the pursuit of making a "master race" of blond haired, blue eyed germans.

Homer

I ask, because many people dispute the exact numbers killed in this "holocaust", or they dispute methods of killing. If you think that people were shot and starved to death instead of gassed, you are called a "holocaust denier", even though you acknowledge that they died. If you think that 3 million Jews died instead of 6 million, you're called a "holocaust denier".

Now, based on your definition, I would have to be a "holocaust denier" as well, since you tossed in the "blond haired, blue-eyed" part, and I don't see any proof that the Nazis had any problems with brown/red haired and brown/green/grey eyed Germans.

long time ago I felt opon An article done by a team of researchers that visited the alleged gas chambers. I posted about it. BUT Lokil seems to wanna keep the conspiracy forum very clean. As a fact, the oldest topic dates from October.
The Article said that The 6 million Number was much to great. Since hitler officialy Ordered the Holocaust a short time before the end of the war ( not good with dateS ) the prison camps had to be turned into Death camps. This change took time. And also the gas chambers were only the showers.
The bodies had to be burned.... All goes to say that 6 million is to big of a number.
Ill try to fall opon that site again for it may prouve to be intresting for some of u.

quote:

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Originally posted by NukeChild:
Patton was convinced that the holocaust happened. He was so enraged by it that he gathered all the local German villagers and marched them through concentration camps demanding how they could either tolerate or not know that this was going on in their back yard.

---

\

My favorite president, Ike, did the exact same thing.

Has anyone else here seen that silent film that was taken once a detachment of the US Army had reached Aushwitz or something? I don't recall many of the details, but it was said that Hitchcock had some hand in the film. It wasn't released for a while but I saw it a few years ago in my 8th grade history class...

quote:

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Originally posted by kingenrage:
Ill try to fall opon that site again for it may prouve to be intresting for some of u.

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I would be interested in seeing that. You are welcome to post it here if you like.

Nox

How Proud I am of totse.
I found that article rigth here.
Good Job ppl. well here goes:


1. Gas Chambers

The results published in the _Leuchter Report_ are the important thing.
Categorically, none of the facilities examined at Auschwitz, Birkenau or
Lublin could have supported, or in fact did suport, multiple executions
utilizing hydrogen cyanide, carbon monoxide or any other allegedly or
factually lethal gas. Based upon very generous maximum usage rates for all
the alleged gas chambers, totalling 1,693 persons per week, and assuming
these facilities could support gas executions, it would have required
sixty-eight (68) years to execute the alleged number of six millions of
persons. This must mean that the Third Reich was in existence for some
seventy-five (75) years. Promoting these facilities as being capable of
effecting mass, multiple or even singular executions is both ludicrous and
insulting to every individual on this planet. Further, those who do promote
this mistruth are negligent and irresponsible for not investigating these
facilities earlier and ascertaining the truth before indoctrinating the
world with what may have become the greatest propaganda ploy in history.

2. Crematories

Of equal importance are Exterminationist errors relating to the
crematories. If these crematories, operated at a theoretical rate of
maximum output per day, without any down time and at a constant pace
(an impossible situation), and we accept the figure of at least six
millions executed, the Third Reich lasted for at least forty-two (42)
years, since it would take thirty-five (35) years at an impossible
minimum to cremate these six millions of souls.

No one by any stretch of the imagination would allege (or even
believe) that the Third Reich ever lasted for seventy-five (75) or even
forty-two (42) years, yet they would have us believe that six millions of
souls were executed with equipment which could not possibly have functioned,
in less than one-seventh of the absolute minimum time it could possibly
have taken.

3. Forensics

Forensic samples were taken from the visited sites. A control sample
was removed from delousing facility #1 at Birkenau. It was postulated that
because of the high iron content of the building materials at these camps
the presence of hydrogen cyanide gas would result in a ferric-ferro-
cyanide compound being formed, as evidenced by the Prussian blue staining
on the walls in the delousing facilities. A detailed analysis of the thirty-
two samples taken at the Auschwitz-Birkenau complexes showed 1,050 mg/kg
of cyanide and 6,170 mg/kg of iron. Higher iron results were found at all
of the alleged gas chambers but no significant cyanide traces. This would
be impossible if these sites were exposed to hydrogen cyanide gas, since
the alleged gas chambers supposedly were exposed to much greater quantities
of gas than the delousing facility. Thus, chemical analysis further supports
the fact that these facilities were never utilized as gas execution
facilities.

4. Construction

Construction of these facilities further shows that they were never
used as gas chambers. None of these facilities were sealed or gasketed. No
provision was ever made to prevent condensation of gas on the walls, floor
or ceiling. No provision ever existed to exhaust the air-gas mixture from
these buildings. No provision ever existed to introduce or distribute the
gas throughout the chamber. No explosion-proof lighting existed and no
attempt was ever made to prevent gas from entering hte crematories, even
though the gas is highly explosive. No attempt was made to protect
operating personnel from exposure to the gas or to protect other non-
participating persons from exposure. Specifically, at Auschwitz, a floor
drain in the alleged gas chamber was connected directly to the camp's storm
drain system. At Majdanek a depressed walkway around the alleged gas
chambers would have collected gas seepage and resulted in a death trap for
camp personnel. No exhaust stacks ever existed. Hydrogen cyanide gas is an
extremely dangerous and lethal gas and nowhere were there any provisions to
effect any amount of safe handling. The chambers were too small to
accommodate more than a small fraction of the alleged numbers. Plain and
simple, these facilities could not have operated as execution gas chambers.

5. Conclusion

After a thorough examination of the alleged execution facilities in
Poland and their associated crematories, the only conclusion that can be
arrived at by a rational, responsible person is the absurdity of the notion
that any of these facilities were ever capable of, or were utilized as,
execution gas chambers.

Because This text Resumes all my comments in a much better way I will Wait For Your no so well prepared Reply to anwser You back.

This is the Article I was talking about.
These People were actualy in those gas chambers, unlike many of u who were not even born.

" c)Find me some evidence. GOOD EVIDENCE. "

FOuND

Other "experts" beg to differ. I guess it all depends on which lobby group is paying them...

Alternative history sites -

http://www.ihr.org

http://www.codoh.com

http://www.fpp.co.uk

I hate the term "alternate history." There is no alternate history, only truth and lies.

In reference to the gas chambers, the story I heard was that they went to the "supposed" gas chamber and scrapped the walls for various nerve agents. The agents were found, but what the "appologists" claimed was that the gas was present not as a murder weapon, but was used to delice all the clothes of the jewish prisoners. You need more nerve gas to kill lice than people and that is one explanation of why there are traces of nerve gas on the walls. However it doesn't explain why there were holes in the ceilings for tablets to be dropped in or why their appear to be claw marks on the wall.

As for the crematories, the other "version" i heard was the claim that there was not nearly enough fuel to burn all the bodies. This however was countered by the fact that if heat was retained, as in continual operation, than all that was needed to maintain the temperatures needed to operate the crematories was a regular influx of corpses with high body fat. The other explanation was that some sort of plauge broke out among the prisoners and the bodies had to be burned to prevent contamination.

Parts 3 and 4 I directly contradict, so I will leave it at that.

These are the "Nazi apologist" stories or version of the truth that I have heard.

quote:

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There is no alternate history, only truth and lies.

---

The "truth and lies" part I agree with, but there is definately alternative history - alternative to a mainstream view that might have it's fair share of falsehoods.

The holocause (of WWII) wasn't that bad. What's a million or two. What's really going to suck, is the fact that it will repeat itself, over and over and over and over again. Just like it allready did a shitload of times in the past 5000 years. I don't hear the gays or the gypsies nag about the holocaust. I think the jews should concetrate on preventing the following one, instead of nagging about the last one, and trying to extract more money from the "victim-factor".

quote:

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Originally posted by XeNobiTe:
The holocause (of WWII) wasn't that bad. What's a million or two. What's really going to suck, is the fact that it will repeat itself, over and over and over and over again. Just like it allready did a shitload of times in the past 5000 years. I don't hear the gays or the gypsies nag about the holocaust. I think the jews should concetrate on preventing the following one, instead of nagging about the last one, and trying to extract more money from the "victim-factor".

---

Indeed.
The "victim-factor" has allowed the jews to steal land, property and money from thousands of palestinians, as well as arms and money from the US.
This needs to stop.
Yes, The holocaust did happen.
Yes, it must have sucked.
No, people like kingenrage don't deserve to live, and are stupid.
However, none of this means that others must suffer. And I do not believe that another holocaust is coming anytime soon, not with the US here anywho. Unless you would count a slaughter of all who live in israel, which is entirely possible; No one in the middle east likes israel, and would kill every jew in there if possible.

Homer

I seriously doubt Israel will be annihilated any time soon, what with all their guns and money and nuclear weapons and all, wherever they got them from (hint: they bought the guns from the US with money they got from the US, and they stole the nukes from the US).

quote:

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Originally posted by Vox:
I seriously doubt Israel will be annihilated any time soon, what with all their guns and money and nuclear weapons and all, wherever they got them from (hint: they bought the guns from the US with money they got from the US, and they stole the nukes from the US).

---

They stole no nukes from the united states.
Do you seriously think that the US would abide by people stealing weapons or anything from us??!!!!!!1
No, the US would annahilate israel if it ever did such a thing.
Every nuke that israel has comes from buying it or recieving it from the US. (They buy weapons from us, but they mysteriously get all the money and more back from the us, kinda like a Mail in rebate).

Homer

quote:

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Originally posted by NukeChild:
I hate the term "alternate history." There is no alternate history, only truth and lies.

---

History isn't what actually happened.
History is just what people record and remember.

History: An account, mostly false, of events, mostly unimportant, wich are brought about by rulers, mostly knaves, and soldiers, mostly fools.

The Devil�s Dictionary, Ambrose Bierce.

FoxLeonard

concerning the issue i agree with TheMouse and Raugy Garaudy

if you ask who is he?
check this http://abbc.com/garaudy/english/newbook.htm

Israel doesn't openly have nuclear weapons...

And Alternate History is a genre, closely connectected to science fiction, were a different occurance in history changes it.

quote:

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Originally posted by VeneFrigus:
Israel doesn't openly have nuclear weapons...

And Alternate History is a genre, closely connectected to science fiction, were a different occurance in history changes it.

---

Bravo!!!!1
There is NO alternate history.
There is only smart people and idiots.
99.8% of what history teachers tell us is true. The only deception is what is not taught.
The holocaust is taught.
The holocaust is truth.
If you don't think that the holocaust happened, tell me where the mounds of shoes (those that are kept in wherehouses of death camps) come from. Or tell me where the mounds of human hair come from.
Or the glasses.
All these things were on human beings when they were removed or cut off of human bodies, some dead, some alive.
The holocaust DID happen.
Your evidence is meaningless.
Perhaps the holocaust did not occor in the magnitude that is published, but it did occor.
By denying their deaths, you dishonor the souls of those put to death during this slaughter.

Homer

quote:

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99.8% of what history teachers tell us is true.

---

A little trusting, aren't ya?

Agreeing with the above post, it does not take 6 million people to make a holocaust. The very fact that a group of people tried to wipe out another in a mass mass mass Genocide concludes that the Holocaust did happen.

What ever anyone decides, the only dilemma that should be faced is if it should be called the Holocaust or the Shoah (death by fire) in hebrew. The dilemma should not be whether or not many many people were "executed" by the germans in a well calculated death maching. i dont care if one ten twenty or 6 million people died due to this, it was still an attempt to remove an entire culture from the genepool.

i have been to Auchwitz, ok i was severely hung over and they say no bird sings there (cos it is soo fucking cold) but i remember seeing the halls and the little 2 foot by 2 foot cells that 4 men were left to die in. The worst thing, the absolute pit of it all was seeing the deep perfect pictures that those people drew in the walls with their own nails.

Any one that does deny this took place stands to be the only person that the Holocaust should have happened to.

People used to "know" that the Nazis made soap and lampshades out of Jews. Elie Weasel actually "saw" babies being tossed into pits of fire and geysers of blood shooting from the ground. Right.

The term "holocaust denier" is a propaganda phrase against someone who questions details. If you think that 3mil died instead of 6mil, you're called a "denier". If you think that most of the Jews died of disease, shootings, and starvation instead of gassings and being thrown into pits of fire, you're a "denier".

Yes, Hitler wanted to get the Jews out of Europe. Boo-hoo, most of the Jews were communists. He also jailed a bunch of other commies, homosexuals, gypsies, etc. That is pennies compared to what Bolshevisk Jews in Eastern Europe wrought.

The irony is that today Jews are still demanding $$$$$ from countries because Hitler didn't want Jews in his country, but Jews throw a fit if anyone suggests that they should give Palestinians reparations and let them live in Palestine. Jews don't want Palestinians in their country and want to "transfer" them out. Why is it OK for Jews to "transfer" people they don't want out of their country and not for Hitler?

[This message has been edited by TheMouse (edited 11-16-2002).]

quote:

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Originally posted by TheMouse:
Yes, Hitler wanted to get the Jews out of Europe. Boo-hoo, most of the Jews were communists.

---

Mouse,

Don't forget that the identification and collection of the Jews was left up to the local authorities throughout Europe. Each of those countries actually PAID the Germans to take the Jews off their hands for "resettlement" (they really didn't care where or if) in Russia. So getting the Jews out of Europe wasn't just Hitler's idea.

Nox

Europe wanted to get rid of the jews, history speaks for itself that everyone wanted to get rid of the jews.

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheMouse:

Yes, Hitler wanted to get the Jews out of Europe. Boo-hoo, most of the Jews were communists.

---

Mouse, You are the most ignorant racist I have EVER spoken to.
SO THE FUCK WHAT IF THE JEWS WERE COMMUNISTS!!
How does that, in any way, justify anything or make any form of a point in any way!?!?!?!!!!1
Jesus christ mouse, get a damn brain ho.

Homer

quote:

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Originally posted by HomerJay603:
Mouse, You are the most ignorant racist I have EVER spoken to.

---

You are forgetting about SATURNROCKETX

quote:

---

Originally posted by jsaxton14:

You are forgetting about SATURNROCKETX

---

Indeed. Cheerfully withdrawn.

Homer

quote:

---

SO THE FUCK WHAT IF THE JEWS WERE COMMUNISTS!!

---

Europeans who experienced a real threat by murderous Bolsheviks and the Soviet Union "GAVE A FUCK THAT THE JEWS WERE COMMUNISTS".

quote:

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Originally posted by TheMouse:
Europeans who experienced a real threat by murderous Bolsheviks and the Soviet Union "GAVE A FUCK THAT THE JEWS WERE COMMUNISTS".

---

The point is, it was still not very nice of the germans to slaughter millions of jews, communist or no.
This topic is not about how many people were killed in the holocaust, or why, or in what fassion.
The point of this topic is basically, to debate who does and who does not actually believe that the holocaust happened. It is good that you seem to think it did mouse, because you seem like the type who would deny it.

Homer

Out of curiosity, how do you guys account for starvation and disease that was a direct result of the poor quality of the concentration camps? I ask this becuase it seems like a tacky legal maneuver where you are arguing that nature killed a man, even though it was you who dumped him 50 miles into the wilderness? Basically, how do you count deaths from neglect as they too would seem to be a direct part of the holocaust figures?

A tough topic, and one thats been discussed about a hundred times here at TOTSE.

But anyway, wahts the importance? HomerJay, why do you care so much that you'll personally attack mouse, someone who i consider to a highly intelligent poster here in the politics forum.

And on another note, history is one mans perception of the past. I used to hate the fact that the Nazis made British and Americans go on 100 mile death marches, but then several weeks ago, i heard an account from a brit that basically said, those death marches saved the majorities lives, as if they hadn't have been moved from the camps they were in, they would have fallen into the path of the red army.

So my opinions on that particular piece of history has now changed due to a change in perspective.

quote:

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Originally posted by HomerJay603:
The point is, it was still not very nice of the germans to slaughter millions of jews, communist or no.

---

"not very nice" ? MASSIVE understatement.

quote:

---

Originally posted by preying mantis:
I used to hate the fact that the Nazis made British and Americans go on 100 mile death marches

---

And the Germans did their 'death march' far differently than the Japanese did at Bataan.

Nox

There were millions of no Jewish Communists, and many Jews killed by the Soviets. There is a tangible connection between Bolshevism and secular Jews which may discredit some of the reparations claims but it certainly doesn't justify the holocaust, whether the details of it are exaggerated or not.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nox:
And the Germans did their 'death march' far differently than the Japanese did at Bataan.

Nox

---

Yes. The Japanese were far more brutal towards the Brits and Americans, whereas, generally the germans were ok to our POWs.

On a semi-relevant issue, has anyone read 'The Beast Reawakens'?

quote:

---

Originally posted by HomerJay603:
How can idiots actually think the holocaust did not happen? Are people not convinced by the statistics and pictures of near-dead jews, jypsies, homosexuals, and others?

The only way to not believe the holocaust is this: one of their ancestors must have been born out of copulation between brother and sister.
Or in layman's terms, the person must be an inbread mountain person, or must be descended from a group of inbread mountain people.

It is that simple. One must have severe genetic defincies to actually buy into that shit.

If you think the holocaust did not happen,
a)fuck you
b)go to hell
c)Find me some evidence. GOOD EVIDENCE.

Homer

---

Hold on, i just reread your first post, and you want the non-belivers to justify their half the story without you first providing any facts?

On the other hand, Britons held by the Japs in internment camps in China were fed (tiny amounts, but the guards were starving too) while those Chinese around them who hadn't been brutally murdered starved to death.

quote:

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Originally posted by preying mantis:
Hold on, i just reread your first post, and you want the non-belivers to justify their half the story without you first providing any facts?

---

Anyone who has been through junior high history knows well of the facts on my side of the argument. It would be just as boring for you to read them as it would be for me to write them. They holocaust has allready gone on trial after WWII (nuremburg). If one wants to appeal that decision, they need to provide evidence, no??

Homer

Read this, then tell me what you think.

Thanks Mouse,

I didn't know about the Cap Arcona. Somehow, now that I do, I can't say I'm wiser....just more disgusted.

Nox

quote:

---

Originally posted by HomerJay603:
How can idiots actually think the holocaust did not happen? Are people not convinced by the statistics and pictures of near-dead jews, jypsies, homosexuals, and others?

The only way to not believe the holocaust is this: one of their ancestors must have been born out of copulation between brother and sister.
Or in layman's terms, the person must be an inbread mountain person, or must be descended from a group of inbread mountain people.

It is that simple. One must have severe genetic defincies to actually buy into that shit.

If you think the holocaust did not happen,
a)fuck you
b)go to hell
c)Find me some evidence. GOOD EVIDENCE.

Homer

---

Idiot, the burden of proof is YOURS. If you want to PROVE something HAPPENED you have to show EVIDENCE. The people who disbelieve do not have to show evidence for something they believe did not happen. How do you show evidence there are no ghosts or aliens. No genius, those who CLAIM that something happened or exists must show the evidence. What you propose doesnt make much sense.

quote:

---

Originally posted by SATURNROCKETX:
Idiot, the burden of proof is YOURS. If you want to PROVE something HAPPENED you have to show EVIDENCE. The people who disbelieve do not have to show evidence for something they believe did not happen. How do you show evidence there are no ghosts or aliens. No genius, those who CLAIM that something happened or exists must show the evidence. What you propose doesnt make much sense.

---

Saturn, you are an ignorant pig.
THE PROOF HAS ALLREADY BEEN MADE!!!!!!!!!!1
HAVE WE HEARD OF THE NUREMBURG TRIALS!?!?!?!?!?!?!???
DUMASS!!!!!
To appeal that decision, YOU MUST PROVIDE EVIDENCE!!!!!!!!!!1
From you or any other person here, I have heard no conclusive evidence to overturn the nuremburg trials (figuratively of course).
Yes, there is evidence that the scope of the holocaust is much smaller than some estimate, (the most credible ones that I have heard range around one million) however no evidence has ever been conjured to state that the holocaust did not occor altogether.

I also find it very hard to believe that a massive government or jewish conspiracy was enacted to make the whole world think that a million or so jews, homosexuals, etc. were killed.

Saturn, try drinking less and thinking more.

Homer

[This message has been edited by HomerJay603 (edited 11-18-2002).]

"The holocaust is taught.
The holocaust is truth."

People were once taught that the world was flat, idiot. Just because someone says something doesnt make it true, Facts speak for themselves. There is no evidence of mass gassing of Jews.

"If you don't think that the holocaust happened, tell me where the mounds of shoes...come from."

Shoeshops?

"Or tell me where the mounds of human hair come from."

Barbers?

"Or the glasses."

Opticians?

My dear, foolish, homo. Id hate to be the one to take you on a tour of a shopping complex if you consider shoes and glasses as proof of mass murder.

The mouse and kingenrage have both shown very compelling evidence to back their claims, you have shown none. You claim anyone whos been through school knows your right. I went through school, i was never shown any evidence. So for the others like me on this forum, who must have missed the class on scientific evidence proving the holocaust, please, cite your sources for this "proof".

According to many of the professional victim groups, *you* are a "holocaust denier" for saying that less than 6mil died.

Anyone besides me sick of the term "The Holocaust"? It's too vague and too emotional. Everyone changes the definition whenever they see fit.

It's also too inaccurate, since the translation of holocaust means burnt offerings or death by fire. How is someone who died of a typhus epidemic a "burnt offering" or "death by fire"? "Holocaust" describes the allied bombing raids of civilian cities better than some Jews starving in a camp.


Why I'm sick of "The Holocaust" reason #2: Why is the Shoah implanted into everyone's head as the quintessential tragedy of all time, when Bolshevism killed many times more than Hitler? Everyone invokes Hitler as the man of ultimate evil, yet barely anyone has heard of Jewish Bolshevik Kaganovich, who was responsible for the deaths of millions of Ukrainians.

The population statistics provided by the reich itself account for about 4 million Jews in their territory. The only way they could have even had access to 6 million jews is if they occupied Spain, the British aisles, and Russia as far as goddamn Mongolia. And thats assuming a 100% efficiency rate, with not many survivors.

And the word is Inbred.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
And the word is Inbred.

---

I appologise for my spelling error.
Can you ever forgive me??

Homer