(or Cathedrals.)

A thread created in response to Boris.

The meaning, I believe, is obvious.

Come again?I am quite confused....

Edit: Oh...I get it....

[This message has been edited by Agent Boris_KGB (edited 10-13-2002).]

I think VeneFrigus means me.

Nobody. The pyramids and cathedrals were built for religion. Religion is a form of control, "do what we say or you will burn in hell for all eternity." or "Do what we say and you'll be reward in heaven", so hopefully nobody will build any Pyramids/cathedrals.

The Pyramids were built to communicate universal knowledge of math and astronomy. It is a big encoded mathematical formula and map.

And the belief that a worldwide movement will overturn a million years of the rule of power or kings and install an envisioned ancient Eden of liberty is just as religious as any religion you condemn.

I thought the Egyptian pyramids were tombs. It appears that the American pyramids had a variety of functions (including tomb, worship center, records center, et al). I was also under the impression that a Cathedral was the church for the bishop. However, I was not raised a Roman Catholic, so this is just what I assumed.

Nox

Lesser pyramids are tombs, yes. The Great Pyramid predates them, has no evidence of ever having contained a body or even a coffin, no funeral art that adorns pyramid tombs everywhere, no inscriptions anywhere, and when first broken into, had no stored wealth and treasure.

Nobody knows for sure why the pyramids were built.

"And the belief that a worldwide movement will overturn a million years of the rule of power or kings and install an envisioned ancient Eden of liberty is just as religious as any religion you condemn."

There's a big differance between hopeing something will happen and trying to make something happen. Religion makes people hope something will happen, not make them do something.

That is an over generalisation I know, eg Catholisism in Latin America has played some part in overturning repressive regimes or The Ghost Dancers - a group of North American Indians who fought against White settlers, but for the most part Religion has been used as a form of social control.

if i lived in an anarchist society i would be so down to help build a pyramid. i'd like to build a pyramid now but i dont have the money.

>>>>There's a big differance between hopeing something will happen and trying to make something happen. Religion makes people hope something will happen, not make them do something.<<<<<

... I wonder how long until you contradict yourself and blame religion for starting wars.
needless to say, your statement is wrong.

>>>>>That is an over generalisation I know, eg Catholisism in Latin America has played some part in overturning repressive regimes or The Ghost Dancers - a group of North American Indians who fought against White settlers, but for the most part Religion has been used as a form of social control.<<<

Getting injuns to fight a war isnt social control?

Dude, the bullshit of your bias is dripping from every orifice in your body.

Obviously, god caused them to be built... by engineers and tradesmen.

Spirit of '22: I was talking about changing the system they were a part of, not trying to change an external system. For example the Crusades, Christians tried to take control of the Holy Land from Muslims, so yes, Religion did make something happen, but would those christians attempt to change the society they were a part of, if they realised how shit it was, no. Because their religion forbids it.

Yes. It was called the Renaisance. And the Reformation. And the Age of Reason. And the age of Nationalism. And then another age, and another age. You are braindead.

Yes, I confused Boris with Lazy Bastard. Sorry for the confusion.

What the Pyramids or Cathedrals are is unimportant. I'm using them as examples of great and wonderous buildings that serve no practical purpose (at least as far as the argus mediocris is concerned.) Yet it would be a tragedy for them not to exist.

Yet many systems lack the motives of their construction, or even the capibilities.

So it is I ask of all proposed systems, who builds the Pyramids?

ME ME ME

You wouldn't when you wanted food.

quote:

---

Originally posted by VeneFrigus:
What the Pyramids or Cathedrals are is unimportant. I'm using them as examples of great and wonderous buildings that serve no practical purpose (at least as far as the argus mediocris is concerned.) Yet it would be a tragedy for them not to exist.

---

You contradict yourself. If their absence has value; then their prescence must also.

quote:

---

Yet many systems lack the motives of their construction

---

Systems? The motive in building them is to pay homage to god and ourselves.

quote:

---

...or even the capibilities.

---

Any building that has ever been undertaken on this earth, could have been accomplished with levers, pulleys and labor.

quote:

---

So it is I ask of all proposed systems...

---

What the fuck is a "system"?

<<<<<<<<<<<<You contradict yourself. If their absence has value; then their prescence must also.>>>>>>>>

Of no importance to the matter at hand, meaning irrelevant.

<<<<<<<<<<Systems? The motive in building them is to pay homage to god and ourselves.>>>>>>>>>

In some situations people have no or little motive to do that.

<<<<<Any building that has ever been undertaken on this earth, could have been accomplished with levers, pulleys and labor.>>>>

Not really. Glassbox skyscrapers take more. And labor is not always readily available.

Alien gods. Silence yourself fool, and worship their terrible majesty.

>>>>Any building that has ever been undertaken on this earth, could have been accomplished with levers, pulleys and labor.<<<<<

Not really. Even our cranes cant lift some of the stones used in the pyramid. And their alignment and sharp angles, and passages could not be accomplished with the naked eye, or even, simple instruments. How the hell they carved shafts through hundreds of massive stones before they built the pyramid, then fitted them together is likewise incredibly difficult, if not impossible, even with modern technology.

And the "sarcophagus" in the Kings Chamber of the Great Pyramid was cut through solid rock with a diamond tipped drilling instrument that would have had to be as powerful as our own industrial ones.

Cassius:

Aliens? ???

Defiant:

That's interesting. I was watching a show on TV that said they did it by heating the rocks and smashing bronze orbs against them. I thought it sounded unrealistic.

quote:

---

Originally posted by VeneFrigus:
Of no importance to the matter at hand, meaning irrelevant.

---

Then why is it taking up space on my screen?

quote:

---

In some situations people have no or little motive to do that.

---

True, I have no desire to build temples especially for a god, but I do get satisfaction in building. Besides it's a job.

quote:

---

Glassbox skyscrapers take more. And labor is not always readily available.

---

lol, I knew someone would say this. Yes a foundry would be required to create the glass and steel, but they could be erected as I've outlined. The context was ancient building projects anyway.

Labor would be in abundance. Slave labor, people wishing to honor their god, etc. Things such as strikes and labor-markets would be of secondary importance, or non-existant.

So what are you getting at with this topic? You seem like an intelligent dude. You're not just asking the question here.
___

quote:

---

Spirit:
Even our cranes cant lift some of the stones used in the pyramid.

---

Cranes are designed to be mobile, and thus sacrifice capacity. And their design is intended to erect something quickly and efficiently. Modern cranes don't exist with this capability because we don't make lifts of large stone like they did.

quote:

---

And their alignment and sharp angles, and passages could not be accomplished with the naked eye, or even, simple instruments.

---

From what I've read and seen in documentaries, simple transit-like instruments could have accomplished this.

quote:

---

How the hell they carved shafts through hundreds of massive stones before they built the pyramid, then fitted them together is likewise incredibly difficult, if not impossible, even with modern technology.

---

My understanding was that they didn't carve the passages, but instead fitted them together to create the passages.

quote:

---

The Shafts of the King's Chamber Described:
The openings of both shafts are located at roughly the same level in the chamber, at the joint at the top of the first course of granite wall-stone. The northern opening is slightly lower, its ceiling being level with the joint, while the floor of the southern opening is roughly level with the joint. - link

---

"Joints" means fitted stone.

They're there as examples.

Some people don't get satisfaction in building. Especially when there are things that would be personally of more profit to them.


And I'm talking about in any system. Including those in which strikes and labor markets exist. In such cases these wonders could not be built.

>>>>My understanding was that they didn't carve the passages, but instead fitted them together to create the passages.<<<<

I know. First they carved them, then fit them together. It sounds simple when youre dealing with surface-level alignment and crap like that, but the shafts go through some pretty complicated stoneworking.

quote:

---

Originally posted by VeneFrigus:
They're there as examples.

---

Examples of WHAT?

quote:

---

Some people don't get satisfaction in building. Especially when there are things that would be personally of more profit to them.

---

No shit. Did I say everyone should? What I said was, that religious faith will motivate a large labor pool to accomplish these tasks. So will a whip.
___

quote:

---

Spirit:
It sounds simple when youre dealing with surface-level alignment and crap like that, but the shafts go through some pretty complicated stoneworking.

---

I agree, they're an awesome feat of accomplishment by today's standards, but still possible - by humans of the day. My point was to discredit any implication that they were assisted by extraterrestrials.

On my part?

<<<<<Examples of WHAT?>>>>>

I already answered that.

<<<<No shit. Did I say everyone should? What I said was, that religious faith will motivate a large labor pool to accomplish these tasks. So will a whip.>>>>>

Thus demonstrating the advantages of religious faith and whips.

the answer is so easy to see . its right there .. you know that really good p.2.p dope the bikers make. well they got it from chariots crowd . good crank thats the answer

quote:

---

Originally posted by VeneFrigus:
You wouldn't when you wanted food.

---

in an anarchist society food would be provided for me. why dont you accually READ about what you are critisizing before you make stupid comments.

and that food would come from where?

>>>>n an anarchist society food would be provided for me. <<<<


No it wouldnt...

quote:

---

Originally posted by 4ot:
in an anarchist society food would be provided for me. why dont you accually READ about what you are critisizing before you make stupid comments.

---

ROFL

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
On my part?

---

You and anyone else that were prepared to suggest it. It was a preemptive strike.
___

quote:

---

Originally posted by VeneFrigus:
I already answered that.

---

Why be a smug jackoff, when I asked respectfully?

quote:

---

Thus demonstrating the advantages of religious faith and whips.

---

Thus reinforcing my point that labor would be readily available.
___

quote:

---

Originally posted by preying mantis:
and that food would come from where?

---

As the communal cocksucker, 4ot would be assured of his daily meat.

quote:

---

Originally posted by user X:
Why be a smug bastard when I asked respectfully?

---

I don't like typing things twice.

quote:

---

Thus reinforcing my point that labor would be readily available.

---

Where there are whips.

I retract my compliment regarding your seeming intelligence; it was presumptous on my part.

Now I just wanna stomp you to a puddle.

I thank you. Bad references may be detrimental.

i did

quote:

---

Originally posted by user X:
I retract my compliment regarding your seeming intelligence; it was presumptous on my part.

Now I just wanna stomp you to a puddle.

---

And you regard yourself as more intelligent?

Not really, just trying to express my frustration with the little shit. I enjoy his posts, and I think he's intelligent.

Taking me up on that offer to go a few rounds?

That would be quite jolly.

I'll hope my fists aren't as ambiguous as my statements.

lol, the last part was directed at Preying, and it was a joke at that.

Edit: so who built em?

[This message has been edited by user X (edited 10-24-2002).]

Teamsters.

Duh. The Earths last great civilizers of the former Age, destroyed by catacylsm.

Right you, user X, lets take this outside.

Note the tense.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
Duh. The Earths last great civilizers of the former Age, destroyed by catacylsm.

---

Well I thought it was obvious too. Except for the cataclysm part. Pole shift would have left the pyramids, stonehenge, etc randomly unaligned; geographically and astronomically.

User x Assume That some survivors built it wher it stands today!

And another FACT For you dimwits

Some people think that it was built about 12500 yrs ago (10500 bc) This aligns with other areas on the planet (dont ask i forgot)
and the mass tetonic displacement theory (bit complicated)

Yes, they could have been built by the survivors.