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I consider my being born American a coincidence. My concern is the world I live in. My fellow humans mean more to me then any sort of national identity. I'm not gonna move cause my family's here.

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Originally posted by TheMouse:
His clampdown on civil rights has more to do with a fake "war against terror" than a wish to spread the word of Jesus.

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Originally posted by TheMouse:
No. I hate their lobbies because they try to censor everything they don't like.

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Why would that increase my opinion of the Jewish community? I can't stand the NeoConservative Republican party. This just shows that the Jewish community has one thing in mind, which is Israel First. They should move to Israel if they support it so much instead of bribing all the politicians with PAC money.

[This message has been edited by TheMouse (edited 09-18-2002).]

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Mouse, you are full of shit. All kinds of successful lobbies exist, why hate the Jewish ones? They aren't even all that succesful if you ask me.

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It's also perfectly okay to be loyal to a country you're not a citizen of, if you believe in what it's doing, or feel empathy for it's situation. I'm loyal to the people of South Lebanon, because I feel that they're victims of Israel's illegal occupation. At the protests I attended, I felt kinship with the Labanese that marched alongside me. There's nothing wrong with believing in a cause.

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Originally posted by johnny doe:
nazi rodent

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OK, Mouse, I'll rephrase myself.
*clears throat*

They ARENT A DAMN BIT SUCCESSFUL!!"

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Originally posted by UnclNastyFingerz:
Civil liberties are fine, but you can't eat them.

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Originally posted by TheMouse:
The Zionist movement was founded by a bunch of secular ATHEIST Jews.

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Originally posted by TheMouse:
And if I were supreme dictator Prez for one day, it would be my right to deport their asses to Tel Aviv. They can practice their "right" to 100% support Israel in Israel. If them using their "rights" completely corrupts the political process and government, then I, as supreme dictator Prez for the day have a choice to make. End the corruption and stranglehood caused by a certain lobby group with loyalties that lie outside of the nation, or to meekly bow down to their "rights". I choose the one way ticket to Tel Aviv.

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Concerns In US About
Israel-To-China Arms Deals
By Carol Giacomo
Diplomatic Correspondent
9-9-2

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - China and Russia have faced repeated U.S. sanctions for their arms sales, but a largely unheralded player in what Washington considers the troubling proliferation game is Israel, one of the closest U.S. allies.

The Jewish state, recipient annually of $3 billion in U.S. aid, is second only to Russia as a weapons provider to China, U.S. congressional investigators say.

Some experts fear sensitive U.S. technology may show up via Israel in systems sold by China to Iran and North Korea, which President Bush termed "axis of evil" states after the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

"Israel ranks second only to Russia as a weapons system provider to China and as a conduit for sophisticated military technology, followed by France and Germany," according to a recent report by the U.S.-China Security Review Commission, a panel established by Congress to examine security and economic relations between the two countries.

"Recent upgrades in target acquisition and fire control, probably provided by Israeli weapons specialists, have enhanced the capabilities of the older guided missile destroyers and frigates" in the Chinese navy's inventory, it said.

The commission, which holds hard-line views on China, cited Israel as a supplier to Beijing of radar systems, optical and telecommunications equipment, drones and flight simulators.

"Israel has established itself as an important exporter of high-technology niche weapons containing more sophisticated technology than what is provided by Russia," it said.

WORRYING RELATIONSHIP

"Among the people who are aware of this (Israel-China) trade, there is a consensus that this is not a healthy relationship," commission chairman Richard D'Amato told Reuters. "There is a growing consensus that transfers of these technologies is worrisome given the balance of power in the Taiwan Straits," he said.

D'Amato referred to the fact that Israel-China cooperation persists even as Washington has sold increasingly sophisticated weapons to Taiwan as a defense against China.

Beijing considers the island a renegade and has pledged to use force, if needed, to achieve eventual reunification.

This creates an ironic possibility: In the event of war, China, with weapons supplied or enhanced by Israel that may have been supplied or enhanced by the United States, would face Taiwan, armed with U.S.-made jets and other military hardware.

In November 2000, China promised not to assist any country in developing ballistic missiles that could be used to deliver nuclear weapons and to enact strict export-control rules.

But Beijing only just now published the export rules and in the interim, the CIA said Chinese firms provided dual-use missile-related items, raw materials, and/or assistance to several countries of proliferation concern, including Iran, North Korea, and Libya.

Two senior U.S. officials told Reuters there has been little attention given to China-Israel arms ties since Bush took office.

Issues that could draw criticism of Israel are sensitive in America, where pro-Israel interests wield considerable clout.

"It is a concern when anybody sells the Chinese advanced systems -- and the Israeli systems are very advanced -- that we might, at one point, find ourselves opposite those systems in the hands of the Chinese," said one senior U.S. official.

But, he added, "I'd be more concerned about it if there was more evidence of (recent) activity" between Israel and China.

The Washington Times in July said U.S. intelligence identified an Israeli-made anti-radar weapon, the unmanned "Harpy" drone, deployed with Chinese forces opposite Taiwan.

A U.S. government source confirmed to Reuters that Israel provided the weapon to China. He called the transfer "astounding" because it is a key weapon that, in China's hands, could impair the effectiveness of U.S. Aegis cruisers.

China, a rising economic and military power, has embarked on a major military modernization and some U.S. officials and analysts view Beijing as a serious potential threat.

BUT DOUBTS PERSIST

Despite the U.S.-China Security Review Commission's concerns, some analysts doubt Israel made any significant recent transfers to China.

Two years ago, under U.S. pressure, Israel suspended the sale to Beijing of four $250 million-a-copy advanced early warning Phalcon aircraft, similar to U.S. AWACS planes.

The proposed deal alarmed the Pentagon and infuriated some members of Congress, who threatened to cut U.S. military aid to Israel if the lucrative deal went through.

U.S. officials and other knowledgeable sources say Israel was stunned at the vehement U.S. reaction and this made Israel even more cautious about future deals with China.

The proposed Phalcon deal "involved indigenous Israeli technology and would have provided lots of jobs for our defense industries," an Israeli official told Reuters.

But it was canceled "because Israel has an understanding with the United States that we will not act in a way that will endanger U.S. national security interests," he said.

"I think Phalcon was a watershed. It showed the level of our commitment" to the United States, said the Israeli official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Added a senior U.S. official, "Before the Israelis get in another situation where they are crosswise with us, they'll think twice about it -- the last flap still reverberates."

But D'Amato disagreed. "We still think they are involved in this in a serious way," including high-tech intelligence exchanges and a sharing of missile technology.

Israel began an arms relationship with China in the Cold War with U.S. backing as a means of balancing off the Soviet Union. But the ties have increasingly troubled Washington.

Six years ago, U.S. government reports accused Israel of illegally transferring U.S. technology from the largely U.S.-funded Lavi fighter plane program to China. China's new F-10 fighter jet is said to be nearly identical to the Lavi.

Analysts said that in addition to reaping profits and lowering defense production costs, Israel believes arms sales to China raises its influence with Beijing and gains it vital intelligence about its enemies, with whom China does business.

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Originally posted by TheMouse:
...them using their "rights" completely corrupts the political process and government.

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Originally posted by Alan Smithee:
I can see the headlines now "former leftist woman found dead of .22 caliber bullet wound to the head."

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Originally posted by TheMouse:
If I was supreme dictator president

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
Is there some kinda inside joke thing Im missing with the veiled threat thing, or is it just supposed to sound like a veiled threat?

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Originally posted by UnclNastyFingerz:
Nox, political opinions change.

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I'm surprised she took such a sharp turn so late in her life.

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Originally posted by UnclNastyFingerz:
Not gonna happen. I'll never stop supporting the Cuban Revolution. I've already went through political puberty.

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Originally posted by Spirit of '22:
Is there some kinda inside joke thing Im missing with the veiled threat thing, or is it just supposed to sound like a veiled threat?

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If Israel is made a state, then pro-Israel lobbies will be working on behalf of US Citizens.

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Originally posted by Alan Smithee:
The 22 is essentialy the calling card of the mossad. Its their execution weapon of choice.

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Originally posted by VeneFrigus:
My grandfather killed a deer with a .22

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Originally posted by johnny doe:
Anti-Semitism, is, (for the record Mouse) completely grounded in fairy tales.

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Originally posted by ChuckStone:
they are citizens of the world and deserve equal respect.

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Originally posted by Nox:
Equal respect - only if they earn it. I owe no one respect. I give it because they deserve it.

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Originally posted by ChuckStone:
Gotta say that if they blacks were white then they would be no different to the conventional whites. (excepting Wacko Jacko) but it is ignorance that makes people think it matters.

When someone murders a black man it is insatntly a "racially motivated attack". That is racism in itself, because the whites aren't given a look in. If a white man is murdered however no one calls it "racially motivated". Racism isn't just White on Black/Asian/etc. Does it surprise you that most people ARE racist. Every Polish/Irishman joke and every time you say "Lets kill the rag-heads" is racist. Who gives a fuck if they're black, white or fuckng rainbow coloured, they are citizens of the world and deserve equal respect.

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You complain about double standards in prosecutions and then talk about how ignorant it is for White people to notice that those who are terrorizing and killing them are not White

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