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| Politics: Left, Right, and Center National, state, regional, and local politics. Who's doing what to whom, and what you can do about it. How-to-get-action messages are encouraged. "How the government fucked up my life" stories are encouraged. Sharing new methods for cheating on taxes is encouraged. Sample "letters to congresscritters" are encouraged. Apathy and "I can't do anything" posts are discouraged. Left, right, centrist, or any other form of political-economic systems are all up for discussion. Be prepared to defend yourself, or at least have a good line of bullshit ready. Extensive quoting of economists and philosophers is frowned upon. We want to hear what YOU have to say, not what some constipated, impotent, dead guy dreamt up while suffering from the DT's over a hundred years ago thought. |
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This particular thread is a partial recovery - pages 1, 2 of its original capture were never archived, so some posts from those pages are missing below.
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#1
 2002-06-13, 13:10 |
UnclNastyFingerz 
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 How long will America last for?
Cuba has alot less cancer deaths per capita then we do. They have more recoveries per patient then we do.
Actually, that applies to every industrial country in the world, and even some of the second world. Worm wood may be too damaging to the psycosis, that researches tend to use it as a last resort.
You think good surgeons should be "compensated for their hard work?" That basically means they should charge so much that poor and lower middle class people can't afford them. Without nationalized medicine, the best health care is only accesable to the upper class.
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#2
2002-06-13, 17:33 |
Alan Smithee
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Re: How long will America last for?
>>>You think good surgeons should be "compensated for their hard work?" That basically means they should charge so much that poor and lower middle class people can't afford them. Without nationalized medicine, the best health care is only accesable to the upper class.<<<
No that only means that the poor and middle class cant afford them in a system where they pay about half their money to the state, or where the cost of medicine is six fold what it would be without government. Of course though you are never going to recieve care from the worlds best surgeouns unless youre wealthy because their world famous and in private practice. The European masses don't have access to these people only the people who pay out of their pocket do.
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#3
2002-06-13, 18:06 |
TheMouse
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Re: How long will America last for?
How come there is no mass disatisfaction with health care in the other industrialized nations, as opposed to in the US? As a whole, people with single payer health care in other countries are more satisfied with their health coverage than people here. Why is that, if government health care is supposed to be so horrible?
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#4
2002-06-13, 21:04 |
Joe Boo
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Re: How long will America last for?
quote:
Originally posted by TheMouse:
Why is that, if government health care is supposed to be so horrible?
Because, Government health care, like pretty much everything else government related, is carried out by the lowest bidder. hence poor care |
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#5
2002-06-13, 22:26 |
TheMouse
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Re: How long will America last for?
You didn't answer this part of the question though..
How come there is no mass disatisfaction with health care in the other industrialized nations, as opposed to in the US?
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#6
2002-06-13, 22:32 |
Joe Boo
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Re: How long will America last for?
All the complaints I've heard of the health care involve not being covered, doctor is a dumbass, etc etc
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#7
2002-06-13, 23:26 |
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Re: How long will America last for?
My healthcare is excellent.
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#8
2002-06-13, 23:32 |
TheMouse
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Re: How long will America last for?
quote:
All the complaints I've heard of the health care involve not being covered ...
Well, yes, not being able to afford coverage at all might have some effect on your satisfaction of our health care system! |
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#9
2002-06-13, 23:38 |
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Re: How long will America last for?
Since I've already got healthcare, can I whine about being excluded from private golf courses instead?
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#10
2002-06-14, 03:37 |
Alan Smithee
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Re: How long will America last for?
quote:
Originally posted by TheMouse:
You didn't answer this part of the question though..
[b]How come there is no mass disatisfaction with health care in the other industrialized nations, as opposed to in the US? [/B]
Because you don't see how much you pay for your inferior care directy, its simply an amount taken out of ones taxes. you don't know how much the ammount is and even if you do its abstract because you simply pay it, you are required to pay it, not to do so would cause you to be imprisoned. |
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#11
2002-06-14, 06:03 |
hp
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Re: How long will America last for?
quote:
How come there is no mass disatisfaction with health care in the other industrialized nations, as opposed to in the US?
Actually, TheMouse, most of the nations are displeased with their health care one way or another. Canadians, for example, suffer from a shortage of doctors because a good number of them has left Canada to pursue a more profitable career in the States. The current waiting lists in Canada, especialy in some provinces, are awfully long.
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#12
2002-06-14, 14:18 |
TheMouse
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Re: How long will America last for?
I have never heard a complaint from a Canadian. All the ones I've talked to are quite happy with their care. Ever poll I've seen places Canada near the top of the list in health care satisfaction. In the Canadian newspapers I read when I was over there, the main problem was just that people used it too much.. such as going to the doctor when they have a cold.
User, no one dies without a golf course. Health care is a necessity.
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#13
2002-06-14, 14:24 |
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nowhere in particular
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Re: How long will America last for?
i have excellent health care as well.
"How come there is no mass disatisfaction with health care in the other industrialized nations, as opposed to in the US?"
because it's a democratic platform to run on, they scare senior citizens saying their social security is going to be cut, and that somehow the hippocratic oath doesn't apply to american doctors.
if you have no health care and are hurt, they HAVE to treat you, you may not get the level of care you would with insurance, but they won't say get the hell out of here, unless you've got a hospital controlled by the hmo's as most of california does.
there's also the case for how high our health care is,
it doesn't matter the size of your bill, or how much you pay on it a month, you won't get in trouble for it, even if you've got a hundred thousand dollar hospital bill and you're only paying $5 dollars a month it, you are still paying it, and can't get in trouble, unless it is discovered you could easily be paying more.
at least that's the way it is at the hospital i go to.
and as for school children, every school child in my state is guaranteed dental, eye, and health insurance by the state if their parents have none.
the trouble with health care mouse is where you live, it's not controlled by doctors as it should be but by insurance agents and politicians.
there are no hmo's in my state, most businesses provide health care to their employees who want it, those who can't afford it get government help in their health care, and most importantly of all hospitals here aren't run by insurance companies with political agendas and political restraints and political policies.
i heard of a story in california where a guy needed a cat scan done immediately, but couldn't have one done til the hmo board voted on it's necessity or whether or not they'd pay for it, this was on a thursday night, the hmo board had fridays and weekends off, so he didn't get his cat scan til the following wednesday, monday to hear the case, tuesday to vote on it, and wednesday to pass the judgement on to the doctor.
in my state he'd have had the cat scan done on that thursday, regardless of type of insurance or whether or not he even had it.
democrats have fucked up health care more than they've done for it, which makes health care continue to be a good platform to run on every 2,4 and 6 years.
and of course who isn't for good health care in america, you must be out your mind or republican.
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#14
2002-06-14, 14:31 |
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nowhere in particular
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Re: How long will America last for?
and by the way, there are a lot of people in canada who complain about their health care, my aunt lives in toronto and would prefer to come to america for health care.
she doesn't like the idea of a neurosurgeon making the same amount of money as pediatrist.
this is a common feeling among the wealthier in canada.
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#15
2002-06-14, 14:53 |
TheMouse
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Re: How long will America last for?
The wealthy tend to complain about anything without considering the people who are not wealthy. Of course the upper class in the US has it made. It's the lower-middle classes I'm talking about.. the majority of the population. All the non-wealthy I've talked to in Canada have no issues with their care, and the lower and lower middle class people in the US basically say "What health care?".
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#16
2002-06-14, 16:37 |
Alan Smithee
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Re: How long will America last for?
As I have said though the discontinuation of ineffective government programs will mean more and better health care for all.
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#17
2002-06-14, 21:40 |
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Re: How long will America last for?
quote:
Originally posted by TheMouse:
...and the lower and lower middle class people in the US basically say "What health care?".
If you're trying to say that a service declines in value as it is marketed to those that can least likely afford it, then sure, I'll agree with that. But if it's those fuckers way down on the bottom, the ones that get their healthcare totally free, the ones with no tradable skills, if they're bitchin again, then just tell em to shut up. *pauses to make eggs* *returns, and after enjoying eggs, can think of nothing more to say* |
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#18
2002-06-14, 23:21 |
TheMouse
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Re: How long will America last for?
I'm talking about people who work full time jobs who can't afford health care and don't get health care from their employers.
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#19
2002-06-14, 23:47 |
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Re: How long will America last for?
Right, the ones that consume the municipally funded programs... and did you say the issue was quality of care?
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#20
2002-06-14, 23:52 |
Joe Boo
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Re: How long will America last for?
quote:
Originally posted by TheMouse:
I have never heard a complaint from a Canadian. All the ones I've talked to are quite happy with their care. Ever poll I've seen places Canada near the top of the list in health care satisfaction. In the Canadian newspapers I read when I was over there, the main problem was just that people used it too much.. such as going to the doctor when they have a cold.
User, no one dies without a golf course. Health care is a necessity.
How many Canadians have you talked to? You gotta get opinions from every single person in the country to form your own opinion on that. |
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#21
2002-06-14, 23:56 |
Joe Boo
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Re: How long will America last for?
quote:
Originally posted by TheMouse:
The wealthy tend to complain about anything without considering the people who are not wealthy. Of course the upper class in the US has it made. It's the lower-middle classes I'm talking about.. the majority of the population. All the non-wealthy I've talked to in Canada have no issues with their care, and the lower and lower middle class people in the US basically say "What health care?".
Since You say the wealthy tend to complain about everything then I take it you are in that group? And Mouse, If we did have universal healthcare, you and everyone else that thinks in the same lines as you would find something else to bitch about such as higher taxes, Shitty doctors, and a higher Hospital Administrators ratio to doctors. Which makes Doctors overworked. Ever read Robin Cook's Book "Toxin"? |
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#22
2002-06-15, 00:16 |
TheMouse
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Re: How long will America last for?
Well Joe, my fiance, his family, all his friends, and various canadians on the internet. They were all quite content with their health care and wouldn't like to have the US system.
No, I'm not wealthy at all. Far far from it. I'm moving to Canada, and if it's really such a huge nightmare like some people in the US make it out to be, I'll let you know. I have a feeling that I'm not going to be complaining much about it though. If my fiance was displeased with the care there, he would have let me know instead of saying he was happy with it.
[This message has been edited by TheMouse (edited 06-15-2002).]
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#23
2002-06-15, 00:41 |
Joe Boo
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Re: How long will America last for?
quote:
Originally posted by TheMouse:
Well Joe, my fiance, his family, all his friends, and various canadians on the internet. They were all quite content with their health care and wouldn't like to have the US system.
And their experience with the US health care is?
No, I'm not wealthy at all.
Neither am I. Although My wife and I will be by the end of the year. What is wrong with being well off? Jealous?
Far far from it. I'm moving to Canada, and if it's really such a huge nightmare like some people in the US make it out to be, I'll let you know.
Do you mean nightmare as in living in Canada, or nightmare as in you leaving?
I have a feeling that I'm not going to be complaining much about it though. If my fiance was displeased with the care there, he would have let me know instead of saying he was happy with it.
Does he have any experience with the care here other then your displeasure with it?
[This message has been edited by TheMouse (edited 06-15-2002).]
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#24
2002-06-15, 01:02 |
TheMouse
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Re: How long will America last for?
quote:
Neither am I. Although My wife and I will be by the end of the year. What is wrong with being well off? Jealous?
Did I mention anywhere that there is something inherently wrong with being well off? No, I didn't. Being well off by honest hard working means is fine. Being well off by fraud, breaking laws and screwing people over is not. My problems are with the second batch of people. quote:
Do you mean nightmare as in living in Canada, or nightmare as in you leaving?
This conversation was about health care, in case you forgot. quote:
Does he have any experience with the care here other then your displeasure with it?
How would he? He grew up in Canada. Him, friends, and family are happy with the health care there. That is the point. He has talked to a guy from the U.S. that had one arm going numb for a couple days though and couldn't afford to pay doctor bills. When polled, Canadians are generally more pleased with their health care than Americans. Lower class Americans have the most problems with medical access. |
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#25
2002-06-15, 02:14 |
Joe Boo
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Re: How long will America last for?
quote:
Originally posted by TheMouse:
How would he? He grew up in Canada. Him, friends, and family are happy with the health care there. That is the point. He has talked to a guy from the U.S. that had one arm going numb for a couple days though and couldn't afford to pay doctor bills.
When polled, Canadians are generally more pleased with their health care than Americans. Lower class Americans have the most problems with medical access.
Didn't you say before that polls mean jack shit? And your basing one opinion out of around 250 million? |
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