totse.com | Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

2002-05-29, 01:04

Joe Boo

Regular

Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Well, Today, we bombed ADF sites that fired on our Jets in the No-Fly-zone. Sooner or later we are gonna go after Saddam again. Alot of European Countries don't like that except maybe the U.K. My opinion, Get rid of Saddam, his nutfuck sons and his Ba'ath party. What a crazy motherfucker. Gassing Kurds and Iranian civilians and giving his sons handguns and letting them kill a political prisoner on their 15th birthday. His oldest tortured sheep and other small animals when he was young, threatend to kill his school teacher for boring him, and keeping some girl captive and raping her, killing her then feeding her body parts to dogs. his brother flew an attack helicopter over his Repulican guard and rocketed them. then he killed the family's personal cook. It's like the Manson Family reborn and they are all blood or marriage related. Did you see Saddam get excited and fire in the air during his parade when those Missiles rolled by him? Testing a new batch of nerve and mustard gas on kurds? fuck leaving him alone, get rid of him now!

2002-05-29, 01:34

TheMouse

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

How do we go to war against one man? Send in assassination teams?

2002-05-29, 01:51

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Well, thanks to Senator Frank Church and the Church hearings, we can no longer do that. And it isn't just one man, we have a Republican Guard and his Army.

2002-05-29, 02:56

TheMouse

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

And a country full of people.

2002-05-29, 03:01

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

That want Saddam to go but are too afraid to fight back. Remember them surrenduring by the thousands?

2002-05-29, 14:33

tr0g

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

its kind of candy coated. Im guessing the big shots in the war room dont give a fuck about small children of iraq or any place for that matter.

But logic also says if you want to win elections you need to be popular. And in this day and age the liberal side is growing larger and they will not stand for innocent civilians dying no matter how bad their Government is.

Yes we live by the creed to sacrafice our lives for freedom and democracy but whos life is gonna get taken. its always the poor and never the rich and well educated Politicians. Sure some politicians like Bush Sr served in WW2 as well as J F kennedy but many do not (CLINTON).

Now the point im making is this and im not willing death on any small children of iraq. We need to get suddam out of power. This fucker wants to die a martre and will take out a big American City or Much of Israel if he can. We need to try and get his own people to overthrow him or build up a mass amount of Military troops to sweep into iraq. Kill as many Soldiers who refuse to lay down their arms. Try and spare as many civilians as possible and go on a big witch hunt for the Fat Bastard. Suddam if getting very close to making its first nuke and we must put an end to this now or the USA will suffer greatly. If the US is ever targeted by a nuke I guarentee you the reprecussions will be severe and may in fact start WWIII. we are coming very close this to time my friends and we need to try and control these small countries and their nukes before they destroy us all.

No matter how much bullshit the US has done in the past you have to admit we have controled our nuclear power and have controlled this use throughout the past 60 years. I really believe if Iraq or Iran or some of these other middle eastern or Asian nations had this power they would have used them by now.

2002-05-29, 16:26

sirenoftitan sirenoftitan is offline

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Saddam is an asshole, but so is the US. I think that going after him would be infinitely better the genocidal sanctions regime we have placed on Iraq. also, he has such a tight hold on all the media and even individual speech rights that no one is able to effectively cut against his power.

but at the same time, what right do we have to bust into other countries and arrange things how we like it? while saddam is a bad , perhaps evil, ruler, if the US overthrows him they will just replace him with a sorry puppet regime that will be nicely labeled an "interem government"

2002-05-30, 00:17

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

I dunno, but there are plenty of countries around the world for us intervening in their affairs and others that hate us for it

2002-05-30, 00:30

sirenoftitan sirenoftitan is offline

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

very true

#10

2002-05-30, 00:58

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Oh well, you can never please everyone

#11

2002-05-30, 02:23

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Well, any way you cut it, he and Kim Jong-Il are still two Penile implants the world would be better off without. i dunno, but I would compare them with hitler

#12

2002-05-30, 02:33

TheMouse

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

You'd compare that idiot in Korea and a nutty little dictator who already got beaten up, to a man who went to war all over Europe and needed allied forces to beat????

The world would be better off without Ariel Sharon and Kissinger, but I don't think we should drop bombs all over them.. or do I?

Hmm..

#13

2002-05-30, 05:11

hellis

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

It would be wise not to under estimate saddam or Iraqs war machine. During/before that conflict Iraq had the fourth largest army in the world, not to be toyed with. Saddam was humiliated and probably is pissed off because of that, his hatered for you guys has most likely grown considerably since then. Sanctions were imposed and a no-fly zone established. It was made clear that he was ordered to allow inspectors into Iraq to make sure he was following his orders and to see that his Chem/bio weapons were destroyed and not making them agian. He allowed this,barely. His air force always has tested your resolve in keeping the no-fly zone, he is not scared of you guys, he is sitting there taunting you. Do you seriously believe he complied? not in his nature. The conflict was a long time ago, he probably used this time to rebuild and improve his millitary. There is no way he got rid of his weapones of mass destrucion and is most likely on the look out for a nuke or two. Presently the activeties that occured after 9/11/02 has fueled the aggresion of the regions Islamic countries towards you, they hated you before; now its worse. They feel that it is not a war on terror, but a war on Islam. So they start talking jihad and the infidel america. This is a fire waiting for a spark. A mixture of humilliation and pride is very dangerousn and can lead one to do desprate things to save face, one charachteristic feature of a sociopath. We should proceed very carefully.

#14

2002-05-30, 13:27

tr0g

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

quote:
Originally posted by sirenoftitan:
, what right do we have to bust into other countries and arrange things how we like it? while saddam is a bad , perhaps evil, ruler, if the US overthrows him they will just replace him with a sorry puppet regime that will be nicely labeled an "interem government"

its not the US its the UN. its the nations of the world joining together to control the bad nations and their intent to disrupt the union and democracy. OK some of that is bullshit but if we dont kick suddam out now and try and control this situation now we are gonna be hating life in 20 years.

We will live in a cold war like scenerio all over again. but this time our adversary will be willing to drop the bomb on our heads where russia at least control their arsenal.

#15

2002-05-30, 14:36

preying mantis preying mantis is offline

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Iraq must be beaten and then split into two, one half for the kurds and half for the Iraqis. Plenty of land. Solve a few more world hotspots as well.

Arm the Kurds with half the Iraqis weapons and there you go. You've got enough hate their to keep the middle east occupied for years.

Plus, if the US buys its oil from their new friends, the russians, you don't even need to worry about the middle east, then they'll all stop hating you.

If things settle down, lob in a few missiles to hot things up again.

Yet another simple but effective plan devised by the Mantis to help the world.

#16

2002-05-31, 00:49

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Sadly Mouse, you aren't as smart as you think, Wasn't it 11 years ago that it took all of Europe to beat Saddam? or they were involved? yes mouse Saddam is similar to hitler in that aspect. As of Kim, It also took nearly all of Europe, along with the US to beat him and most of the UN. and Mouse sometimes I wonder if you think those two are saints. Perhaps in your mind the Catholic Church should canonize them as Saints like they are with Mother Teresa? I think the world is better of without the majority of people like you, but I don't think we should bomb them. or should we? hmmm......

#17

2002-06-01, 09:43

Rward46and2 Rward46and2 is offline

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

It's a shame that the people of Iraw are not willing to fight for their own freedom and it is therefore an awkward situation because a) we do not like to see people suffering this way and b) we do not want to solve the problem by intefering because we know that would likely just result in a new state that is just as dominating as the last one but with a smiley face. The world would be a better place if people took control of their own lives, not being governed by a state and basically just getting along as best as possible with the people around them and by their own means. In other words anarchy.

The only reason why we have wars and situations like the one in Iraq is because we allow small numbers of people to control vast armies to enforce their beliefs.

Anarchy would be possible if the will to fight for freedom among the masses had not been crushed by the state through the media, laws and force (this is the case almost everywhere).

I would put forward suggestions as to what we could do in Iraq by interfering but at the end of the day they would just lead to the rise of a new power - so they are not really solutions at all.

So as far as I can see the only forward is for people everywhere not just in Iraq to take control of their lives to do what they want, fighting for their freedom if neccasary. Revolution!

#18

2002-06-01, 19:59

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Muslims have a funny way of believing things. most are illiterate, and when a Mullah or an Ayatollah tell the masses that the Mullahs injustices are in the name of allah, they accept it.

#19

2002-06-01, 20:45

TheMouse

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Joe Boo. Try to think for a second. Hitler's army invaded large portions of Europe. Saddam tried to invade..tiny Kuwait and couldn't do that. Oooh.. biggie. Hitler had a huge following of his own people to create a nation of the master race or whatever. Saddam is a corrupt despot that was propped up by the US and now festers in the sand. Kim in Korea spends all his time watching movies and doing jack shit.

Compairing them to Hitler is giving them way too much credit. If someone who was a little more objective said they were like Hitler I would write them off as purposely trying to scare the masses.

Also, nice stereotyping there of billions of people, many of them not even living in the middle east. You totally regard the fact that there are a wide variety of Muslim sects. What would you think of someone who said that all Jews thought one way?

#20

2002-06-01, 20:52

segue

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

you know jo you could say the same about christian people, or jewish, or any organized religion, of course they belive what thier regilous leaders tell them, its not just muslims

#21

2002-06-01, 21:26

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Mouse Kim Doesn't spend time Jacking off and watching movies. His country is developing Missiles and he even test fired on over japan. Maybe if you had ever been out of fucking California and grow up then maybe you would know what is really going on instead of what the dumb liberals there want you to believe

#22

2002-06-01, 21:27

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

And Segue while we are on this topic don't forget Environmentalists and Vegans

#23

2002-06-01, 21:29

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Mouse did i say all Muslims Are like that? If so you take things way too literally. you remind me of some little schoolboy who cries and screams because his hankie isn't ironed the way he wants it. Just like you cry like a little girl with a skinned knee when someone doesn't agree with your exact ideas. Grow Up

#24

2002-06-01, 22:06

TheMouse

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Lol.. so everyone who tests missiles is like Hitler now?

#25

2002-06-01, 23:17

Swordman

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

well Joe....I see you have bought into all the propoganda that the US and its media allies has spoon-fed all the sheep.

First; Sadaam Hussein nor the Iraqi military "gassed the Kurds." You only think that they did because your lying government has been telling you so. The IRANIANS are the one who gassed the Kurds. It was proven to be the fact in 1991 by the United States War College and others. The Iraquis used Mustard Gas in that war and the IRANIANS used Cyanide. The Kurds were killed with Cyanide gas. WAKE UP!! YOUR GOVERNMENT IS LYING TO YOU!!!

If you will use your BRAIN, instead of allowing your lying government to TELL you what to think, you will come to the same conclusion that I did.......Sadaam Hussein, nor Iraq has never done a single solitary thing to us...US! NOTHING!!!

So why are we killing 2.5 million of their citizens over the last 11 years??? Because ISRAELI TOLD US TO!!!!

They really don't like arabs ya know....

Swordman-

quote:
Originally posted by Joe Boo:
Well, Today, we bombed ADF sites that fired on our Jets in the No-Fly-zone. Sooner or later we are gonna go after Saddam again. Alot of European Countries don't like that except maybe the U.K. My opinion, Get rid of Saddam, his nutfuck sons and his Ba'ath party. What a crazy motherfucker. Gassing Kurds and Iranian civilians and giving his sons handguns and letting them kill a political prisoner on their 15th birthday. His oldest tortured sheep and other small animals when he was young, threatend to kill his school teacher for boring him, and keeping some girl captive and raping her, killing her then feeding her body parts to dogs. his brother flew an attack helicopter over his Repulican guard and rocketed them. then he killed the family's personal cook. It's like the Manson Family reborn and they are all blood or marriage related. Did you see Saddam get excited and fire in the air during his parade when those Missiles rolled by him? Testing a new batch of nerve and mustard gas on kurds? fuck leaving him alone, get rid of him now!

#26

2002-06-02, 03:14

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Mouse mouse mouse. if you didn't take things so literally you'd see my point. When you get into the real world you'll understand

#27

2002-06-02, 03:18

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Swordsman, Iraq doesn't have just Mustard and Iran doesn't have just Cyanide. And for your info It was iraq that gassed the Kurds. And unless your from a foreign country, "your lying government" is also yours. unless your in some cult.

#28

2002-06-02, 03:35

TheMouse

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Ok.. since I'm so "not in touch with the real world", I'd like you to explain it. Explain how the puny dictators of Korea and Iraq are like Hitler.

As a bonus, I'd like you to explain what this "real world" is (just paying bills and making a living, doing extensive world travel, college?) and how "getting into the real world" would make someone an automatic expert in foreign affairs. The majority of America's population is quite in the dark about most foriegn affairs (as is our president), but I wouldn't say that they are in some kind of "fake world".

#29

2002-06-02, 04:56

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

First of Mouse, Kim and Saddam aare like Hitler in that They are both killing their own people, activly engaged in NBC research, and Have Ideology bordering on psyco. As for experience, Does reading a book on flying an airplane make you able to fly it instantly? no it doesn't. neither does reading magazine articles about what you think you know. Tell me what these magazine and news articles are. I would really like to know.

#30

2002-06-02, 05:07

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Also, Our president is being realistic about the rest of the world. First, he isn't a pussy like Clinton. He understands how the world works and if he doesn't he's got a great VP to help him on foreign policy. Second, his Secertary of Defense actually knows what the fuck he is doing. Not one of Clinton's picks for that post knew the difference between an M-60 MG and an M-60 Firing Device. This with the exception of Tommy Thompson and George Tenet is the best Cabinet any President has ever had. Gore? forget it we'd be fucking apologizing to Islamic Fundimentalists. Maybe you prefer to bowing to the east five times a day because of imposed religion? not me. My parents weren't wealthy at all and were teachers yet are greatful for Big Business because it gives money to schools for computers and other things. I have nothing but good things to say about Bush who is improving servicemen's lives and giving tax money back to the people instead of spending it on god knows what (I don't know about you but that $300 tax refund was much welcomed. Pissed because you didn't get yours? Blame the USPS then or Get off your lazy ass and find a job) and last but not least, Are you really sure those homeless are really Veitnam vets? Some really aren't they just tell you (welcome to the REAL world) most of those that are got spit on and got to see Veitcong flags waved at them and fucked over by liberal assholes like the last President.

#31

2002-06-02, 05:18

TheMouse

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

We strengthened economic support with Saddam after the gassing of the Kurds. What does that say about us? Right now the Kurds are doing fine and many of them don't feel like going to war because we've always encouraged them to rebel then failed to protect them! Some Hitler Saddam is.

I'm curious what type of "real world" you live in. You revere Bush for having brains and brawn and are a yes-man for anything the government does. If anyone disagrees with your worldview it's like "OMG GET IN TEH REAL WORLD LIBRAL !"

What kind of brains and brawn does your president have? He KNEW terrorist strikes were going to happen. It was common knowledge, with everyone telling him expicitly that air strikes were on the way. What did he do? Nothing. Not even beef up airport security and issue a warning to the public. Then acted all surprised when it happened. Right now most of the guerilla groups fled to Pakistan, while the media and hard right gets everyone riled up for Iraq, against the advice of the military. "Forget about Osama, my pops got a bone to pick with somebody!"

#32

2002-06-02, 07:36

segue

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

ok joe i realize your saying not all muslims fit into that catagory, but i think the number of radical muslims is comparable to the number of radicals in any religion, in usa we have the army of god who kill doctors, not quite sure what your comment about me meant? was that sarcasm i dected... while you did bring it up, bush is also one of the worst presidents in enviornmental policy

#33

2002-06-02, 20:20

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Mouse, In case you forgot, Clinton knew way before Bush that this was going to happen. It's been documented. Did you see the Democrats Shut up when they found out? If Clinton didn't know before Bush then we would still be hearing about it. Also Mouse you're forgetting that Clinton is responsible for dismantling nearly all of our ADF structure and sending those units to bullshit peacekeeping duties overseas. You forgot to mention that. We were supporting Saddam because we were looking out for our own interests. You think every country doesn't do that? You think every single country is charitable? Mouse i still can't believe you see nothing similar with Saddam, Kim and Hitler. Yes i know Hitler is the worst. Kim and Saddam Are just less worse and came into power soon after Hitler died.

I know that Islam isn't the only religion to have fundamentalists. My home town is full of them. including my parents. My brother is a cop in a town where he has to deal with them on a daily basis. I'll agree Bush is one of the worst environmental presidents. I dunno if he just doesn't care or he thinks we have to take care of ourselves first

#34

2002-06-02, 20:23

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Mouse, they are still hunting for Bin Laden. They have him on the run and now they are focusing beyond Afghanistan.

#35

2002-06-02, 20:30

segue

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

but joe we can do both, bush is cartering to the oil companys, why dont you think he wants to relese that crap to the commitie. Oil companies contributed millions to his campain now hes paying them back... simple

#36

2002-06-02, 20:39

TheMouse

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Listen Joe, get this through your head. I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT. I DO NOT LIKE CLINTON, AND NEVER DID. I DID NOT VOTE FOR GORE. DISLKING BUSH != SUPPORTING THE DNC. THX U.

Now that this is cleared up, we can proceed into this discussion without turning it into a partisan pissing contest. The Clinton administration having info and doing nothing about it does NOT excuse the Bush administration having info and doing nothing about it either. ESPECIALLY since it is the Bush administration that has shoved the unconstitutional Patriot Act down our throats in a frenzy of opportunism. They. Are. All. Crooked.

#37

2002-06-02, 21:43

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Mouse, No one shoved any patriotism down your throat. Nor is patriotism "unconstitutional". Neither is putting a sign with "God Bless America in a classroom unconstitutional. Mouse, In case you forgot, . Nearly everyone in the U.S. took up this patriotism. Including the firefighters, cops and EM people at NY or they know someone who was there, or have someone who was in the military and knew they were going to fight terrorists. No one forced you to wave a flag and I can see by the stuff you write you never have nor ever will. Maybe you think Bush should have predicted that they were going to use jumbo jets in a suicide attack?

#38

2002-06-02, 22:42

malaria

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

quote:
Originally posted by Joe Boo:
Swordsman, Iraq doesn't have just Mustard and Iran doesn't have just Cyanide. And for your info It was iraq that gassed the Kurds. And unless your from a foreign country, "your lying government" is also yours. unless your in some cult.

Agreed.

quote:
From Washingtonpost.com:
In Iraq, Kurds have faced similar repression. After the Kurds supported Iran in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war, Saddam Hussein retaliated, razing villages and attacking peasants with chemical weapons. The Kurds rebelled again after the Persian Gulf War only to be crushed again by Iraqi troops. About 2 million fled to Iran; 5 million currently live in Iraq. The United States has tried to create a safe haven for the Kurds within Iraq by imposing a "no-fly" zone north of the 36th parallel.

#39

2002-06-02, 22:51

TheMouse

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

You probably haven't even heard of it! The US Patriot Act is unconstitutional!

US Patriot Act does the following ..

-Allow for indefinite detention of non-citizens who are not terrorists on minor visa violations if they cannot be deported because they are stateless, their country of origin refuses to accept them or because they would face torture in their country of origin.

-Minimize judicial supervision of federal telephone and Internet surveillance by law enforcement authorities.

-Expand the ability of the government to conduct secret searches.

-Grant the FBI broad access to sensitive business records about individuals without having to show evidence of a crime.

-Lead to large-scale investigations of American citizens for "intelligence" purposes.

All this under the pretense of needing more information to protect against terrorism, EVEN THOUGH the Bush Administration DID already have information about incoming attacks from numerous sources and did nothing. What will it take for something to smell fishy to you?

#40

2002-06-03, 04:28

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Mouse, have you done anything that would cause the government to look into your activities? if so then why worry? I feel 100% safe knowing that these people Violating Visas are going to be hunted. while i don't agree with the detained indefinatly it did catch Moussoui. And even you must secretly relish the feds looking into businesses with little or no probable cause of a crime. shit that's in nearly every post you put up, And lastly in case you didn't know most extremists communicate by internet and cell phone. Cell Phone is easy to track because it's just like a radio transmitter, and The Internet watch may have prevented the Oklahoma City bombing. I feel totally safe in knowing this. There are many other unconstitutional laws out there Mouse such as gun control laws, Drug laws, three strikes and others. We can go on what is legal and what isn't.

#41

2002-06-03, 05:32

TheMouse

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

quote:
Mouse, have you done anything that would cause the government to look into your activities? if so then why worry?

quote:
There are many other unconstitutional laws out there Mouse such as gun control laws, Drug laws, three strikes and others. We can go on what is legal and what isn't.

Hmm.. what was that thing again, about people who would give up a little bit of freedom for a little bit of security deserve neither? You really think that our "leaders" would use that vast amount of power to only catch "terrorists"? Umm.. the saying "give them an inch and they'll take a mile" applies a great deal to power hungry people. The fact that you admit that there are many unconstitutional laws out there, and you don't seem to care one bit is kinda disturbing. You don't seem to care about real democracy or freedom. The only thing that matters is defending the crooked institutions that also have no respect for either. You are their model citizen. Congrats! If we had a monarchy, would you be out there defending His Royal Highness?

#42

2002-06-03, 21:46

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Mouse, Since you aren't defending our country, I'll just let you ramble on. Since I have to die to keep you free, and I volunteered to do it, You can just sit there, do whatever the hell you do, and leave it up the people who are trying to make the world a better place while you bitch about how bad your life is, when in reality you really have no idea how fortunate you are.

#43

2002-06-03, 23:06

TheMouse

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

I bitched about how bad my life is? My life is fucking great! I'm moving and getting married in three weeks. My life being great has nothing to do with the Bush administration or bombing the middle east, however. That "I'm dying to keep you free" is silly. Most of the wars we go to have nothing to do with keeping anyone free, much less the American civilians. If I were staying in America though, I would feel much safer if we just pulled out of the middle east all together and stopped giving arms to Israel, while strengthening border and airport security here and diverting money from the "war on drugs" budget to security.

Every imperialist nation has had to deal with terrorist actions against them, and the terrorist actions sputtered down to nothing when the imperialist nation just withdrew from the place they were barging into.

Zionist gangs blew up the King David Hotel during the formation of Israel. Britian left Palestine and the Zionist gangs stopped targetting Britain (omg they targetted civilians in terrist attack and got a state!!). When we pulled out of Beirut, anti American terrorism stopped in Lebanon. Same with the Brits and French in Algeria and Kenya and Israel vs Hezbollah in Lebanon.

#44

2002-06-04, 06:34

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

I'm so proud your getting married Mouse. And i'm so proud that your life is perfect. And I want you to drive to the nearest military base and say that to the first person in uniform you see. Also, why do you constantly leave out the fact that Communist nations intervened in other democratic governments? Slip your mind? How about China driving tanks over students wanting more personal freedom? Forgot that didn't you? Maybe North Korea isn't really stockpiling all the relief food for Senior party members and using the money for missile research. How about the USSR putting missiles into Cuba then lying in front of the U.N. several times claiming they didn't exsist? At least we were open about our missiles in Turkey and Italy. Maybe we have no business doing anything about China's oppressing the Buddists in Tibet? How about Jordan,Egypt,Syria and Iraq attacking Israel TWO FUCKING DAYS after it became an independant nation. It sounds to you like no big deal just a shame that Israel won in every single conflict with them. Not to mention that we didn't give any military support to Israel until after the 1956 war. Chezchslovakia and Hungary? For ever single barbaric act that third world dictators performed on their people after they promised them and us that they would hold free elections and then went back on their word, there is about four that Soviet backed leaders performed. Just thought I'd remind you, since you haven't acknowledged or mentioned that.

#45

2002-06-04, 08:14

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TheMouse:
[B]I bitched about how bad my life is? My life is fucking great!

No comment.. If I wrote one I would probably "flame" you, that would really give you some shit to post about me on Kingenrage's Bitch topic about me.

I'm moving and getting married in three weeks.

My wife just gave birth, I bought a brand new VW Jetta 2002, I'm working a kick-ass job, and getting my diver medic certification. Aren't we all happy?

My life being great has nothing to do with the Bush administration or bombing the middle east, however.

Mine is, An apt saying is "Fuck with the bull and you get the horns"

That "I'm dying to keep you free" is silly.

I wish you would say that to a servicemember's face. Why don't you? Go find one and do it.

Most of the wars we go to have nothing to do with keeping anyone free,

Millions of Americans would disagree with you on that point. Ask someone from Kuwait which he liked better, The Emir or Saddam? Ask a South Korean if they want to live in North Korea, or why they periodically have NBC drills, and whether German people are happy that they have little to fear from Germany's Baader-Meinhoff Terrorist group and are happy to no longer be divided by a fucking wall and see their family on the eastern side get shot at when they try to cross. Or Italians have little to fear from the Red Brigades. You forgot to mention them. did any "research" on them?

much less the American civilians.

Millions of Americans would disagree with you on that point. I could say more but i won't get too wrapped up

If I were staying in America though, I would feel much safer if we just pulled out of the middle east all together

So Daniel Pearl had it coming to him? Please clarify that, since you seem to be implying so.

and stopped giving arms to Israel,

And Egypt, and money to the Arab governments while they encourage terror against Israel. They fucking say on Saudi TV that Israel passover meals are eaten with Arab blood mixed in the food. I'm sure you don't believe that? then again, since it demonizes Israel, maybe you do. Can you elaborate?

while strengthening border and airport security here and diverting money from the "war on drugs" budget to security.

Shocking as it seems, I agree with you on that.

Every imperialist nation has had to deal with terrorist actions against them, and the terrorist actions sputtered down to nothing when the imperialist nation just withdrew from the place they were barging into.

Not quite accurate. but close. However, By "Imperialist" Do you mean like European Nations colonizing Africa? And that's the same as what we are doing in the Middle East?

Zionist gangs blew up the King David Hotel during the formation of Israel. Britian left Palestine and the Zionist gangs stopped targetting Britain (omg they targetted civilians in terrist attack and got a state!!).

*sigh* Mouse you wouldn't speak so easily if you said that to someone who lost a Mother, Father,Son,Daughter or other family member on Sept 11th. Also, Do you really think that our troops overseas really enjoy being there? Speaking from experience, They want to leave as bad as some of the locals would want them to.

When we pulled out of Beirut, anti American terrorism stopped in Lebanon.

Maybe your research isn't in depth, but I remember them holding American Citizens hostage there long after we pulled out of Beruit.

Same with the Brits and French in Algeria
and Kenya and Israel vs Hezbollah in Lebanon.

And Algeria is any better then when France left? There's plenty of hatred for France. You think once the last Frenchman got on the boat or plane and left all the people just stopped hating them? Hell no and they took the fight into France. I went to Kenya. Dirty fucking place, and had to listen to 80 different locals tell me how much they wished the U.K. was still there, Then it would be cleaner and healthier then it is now. First Hezbollah is a Shiite Muslim group backed by Iran, which kidnaps Israeli soldiers from time to time and then skins them alive. You seem to forget that there was a nasty little civil war there (I know because I lived there for a number of years) And it is just now being rebuilt

#46

2002-06-04, 15:13

TheMouse

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

I stated most of the wars were not about keeping people free. WWII is an exception I'll make. Iraq? Hooray, we went in and defended a monarchy that hired a PR firm to convince the American public that it was a "fledgling democracy". I guess fledgling means "non existant". Vietnam? Congrats, we went to war with people who were rebelling against French imperialism in their country. We're not "keeping people free". The dictators we propped up in the cold war to protect "private enterprise and freedom" were often worse. We often supplied weapons, arms, and support to the dictators to us against people in those countries who wanted a real democracy. The US does not want real democracy in many places in the world. It's much more convenient to deal with a dictator who will let us do what we want and support us all the time (give us cheap oil), than to deal with people who might vote for leaders that will stand up to us. Look what they tried to do in Venezuela. This isn't the cold war anymore, and this stuff is still happening. The peasants aren't all stupid. They're going to vote for someone who will try to improve their quality of life. To do that, they have to vote for someone who defies the IMF and washington proposed reforms, and yes, nationalize some resources and have protectionist trade policies.

Of course soldiers all think they're fighting for our freedoms. Propaganda is very necessary to convince people to go to war in the first place. No one would show up if they said "We need to go to war to protect Unocal and United Fruit!".

Algeria ~~ Hatred for France != terrorism against France. If that were true, many people around the world would be guilty of terrorism against France. Where is the FLN blowing up France right now?

Lebanon ~~ What routine kidnapping of Israeli soldiers today? They captured three in battle. Israel kidnaps their people. Skin them alive? Is there some evidence for this going on today or are you just making stuff up? Capturing people in battle is hardly "terrorism". Oh yeah.. in Zionist lingo, anything done against an Israeli is terrorism, even harming them in combat when they invade another country or taking them prisoner.

#47

2002-06-05, 03:26

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

quote:
Originally posted by TheMouse:
I stated most of the wars were not about keeping people free. WWII is an exception I'll make.

While Leaving out every single one before, And the current one, not to keep you free but to keep your worthless ass safe.

Iraq? Hooray, we went in and defended a monarchy that hired a PR firm to convince the American public that it was a "fledgling democracy".

And Liberated another monarchy that was being occupied by Iraqi soldiers and Prevented a major war by keeping Israel from entering because Iraq was firing Scuds for no reason other then shits and giggles.

I guess fledgling means "non existant". Vietnam? Congrats, we went to war with people who were rebelling against French imperialism in their country. We're not "keeping people free".

You were just born around the time that thousands of Veitnamese were fleeing The country, not to mention the mass evac we carried out the day Saigon fell. I feel sorry for those people that we left behind. Did you see them frantically trying to escape? No I guess not.

The dictators we propped up in the cold war to protect "private enterprise and freedom" were often worse. We often supplied weapons, arms, and support to the dictators to us against people in those countries who wanted a real democracy.

The leaders we propped up told us what we wanted to hear then turned right around and lied. We should be mind readers, I guess

The US does not want real democracy in many places in the world.

???? I really have no answer to that. If your that naive then yu should open your eyes. Your telling me Afghanistan is worse now then it was from 1994-2001? You think It was the Taliban's right to ban women from recieving an education? If the U.S. did that to American women you can imagine what would happen. Or perhaps Kuwait was better having Iraqi troops loot Kuwaiti citizens and stealing incubators from newborns then throwing the babies on the floor as they left?

It's much more convenient to deal with a dictator who will let us do what we want and support us all the time (give us cheap oil), than to deal with people who might vote for leaders that will stand up to us.

Your gonna tell me you aren't going to be pissed when our oil prices go up again? You really think so?

Look what they tried to do in Venezuela. This isn't the cold war anymore,

The cold war isn't over. it never ended and those that claim so are pretty gullible, not to mention stupid. the USSR may be dead but we still have enemies in the same places
and this stuff is still happening.

The peasants aren't all stupid. They're going to vote for someone who will try to improve their quality of life.

Come to Hawaii. That's all I have to say.
To do that, they have to vote for someone who defies the IMF and washington proposed reforms, and yes, nationalize some resources and have protectionist trade policies.

Of course soldiers all think they're fighting for our freedoms. Propaganda is very necessary to convince people to go to war in the first place. No one would show up if they said "We need to go to war to protect Unocal and United Fruit!".

So did you do what I asked you to do? go tell what you said to a servicemember?

Algeria ~~ Hatred for France != terrorism against France. If that were true, many people around the world would be guilty of terrorism against France. Where is the FLN blowing up France right now?

Lebanon ~~ What routine kidnapping of Israeli soldiers today? They captured three in battle. Israel kidnaps their people. Skin them alive? Is there some evidence for this going on today or are you just making stuff up? Capturing people in battle is hardly "terrorism".

Israel Does not kidanp their people. You really need to find more news sources. unbiased news sources. Also, do a Search on Petty Officer Neil Roberts. Tell me that what happened to him was well deserved

Oh yeah.. in Zionist lingo, anything done against an Israeli is terrorism, even harming them in combat when they invade another country or taking them prisoner.

You Know the definition of combat. Does that include blowing yourself up at a Passover dinner with elderly and toddlers running around? if so your a pretty sick fuck Mouse.

#48

2002-06-05, 04:32

TheMouse

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

quote:
While Leaving out every single one before, And the current one, not to keep you free but to keep your worthless ass safe.

I'd really like to know how going into Iraq, Vietnam, Grenada, etc kept me safe.

[Guatemala] has become an increasing threat to the stability of Honduras and El Salvador. Its agrarian reform is a powerful propaganda weapon; its broad social program of aiding the workers and peasants in a victorious struggle against the upper classes and large foreign enterprises has a strong appeal to the populations of Central American neighbors where similar conditions prevail. -U.S. State Department official, 1954

I'm so glad I was protected from those scary agrarian reforms in latin america.

quote:
The leaders we propped up told us what we wanted to hear then turned right around and lied. We should be mind readers, I guess

Umm.. no sorry. We knew what those dictators were doing. That's why we propped them up. We kept supporting them after it was common knowledge they were fucks. We increased economic and diplomatic support with Saddam after he gassed the Kurds.. hello? Remember? We used to like him because he did our bidding, just like we liked the Taliban, liked Pinochet, liked the Contras, supported Indonesia, supported the El Salvador government, etc.

quote:
???? I really have no answer to that. If your that naive then yu should open your eyes. Your telling me Afghanistan is worse now then it was from 1994-2001? You think It was the Taliban's right to ban women from recieving an education? If the U.S. did that to American women you can imagine what would happen. Or perhaps Kuwait was better having Iraqi troops loot Kuwaiti citizens and stealing incubators from newborns then throwing the babies on the floor as they left?

Fact: Feminist organizations all over the country and around the world were trying to warn the US about the Taliban and get us to stop supporting them. But instead we gave them a ton of money because they eradicated poppy fields. The human rights and democracy of anyone is the last reason we ever go to war except as told by the US press to keep the public supportive.

Fact: The babies and incubators story was a lie. It was started by the daugher of one of the Kuwait monarchs and spread without any proof, many thanks to a PR firm that Kuwait hired. Hospital workers all said it was nonsense and bunk, as it was later found to be. Remember how we used to say that Germans scewered babies onto bayonets? You still think that's true?

If they turn on their radars we're going to blow up their goddamn SAMs [surface-to- air missiles]. They know we own their country. We own their airspace... We dictate the way they live and talk. And that's what's great about America right now. It's a good thing, especially when there's a lot of oil out there we need. -U.S. Brig. General William Looney, who directed the bombing of Iraq in the late 1990s

quote:
Your gonna tell me you aren't going to be pissed when our oil prices go up again? You really think so?

It won't effect me. I'm walking distance from everywhere I need to go, and live right next to the c-train. That's mass transit.

quote:
The cold war isn't over. it never ended and those that claim so are pretty gullible, not to mention stupid. the USSR may be dead but we still have enemies in the same places
and this stuff is still happening.

All empires have enemies.

quote:
Come to Hawaii. That's all I have to say.

My sister lives in Hawaii. It's an island state off the US. What does Hawaii have to do with places like Venezuela?

quote:
So did you do what I asked you to do? go tell what you said to a servicemember?

Want me to just go knock on someone's door and say "Hey any servicemembers here?". Besides, what are they going to do? Punch me if I disagree? Is that supposed to somehow change my mind?

quote:
Israel Does not kidanp their people.

LOL! No, they wouldn't call it that. Israel is more sneaky. They'd call it "extra judicial arresting" or something.

http://www.hrw.org/press/2000/04/isr041800.htm

Or is Human Rights Watch an evil Arab propaganda tool in the worldwide Anti-Semitic plot too?

#49

2002-06-06, 02:11

Joe Boo

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

Here is something you need to read Mouse. It hits the nail on the head, It's called "The Way of the World is Force" It's on TOTSE also

#50

2002-06-06, 02:55

TheMouse

Regular

Re: Iraq, Leave them alone or Kick Saddam's ass?

I'm going to say that the next time you even begin to rant about Israel or the WTO getting bombed.

"The way of the world is force"

quote:
U.S. investigators no longer believe suicide hijacker Mohammed Atta met with an Iraqi intelligence agent in Europe last year, eliminating the only known link between Saddam Hussein's government and the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

American and Czech officials had believed the meetings between Atta, the alleged ringleader of the 19 hijackers, and Ahmad Khalil Ibrahim Samir Al-Ani, an Iraqi diplomat widely believed to be an intelligence agent, took place in Prague in April 2001.

Some observers said the meetings suggested Iraq's complicity in the Sept. 11 attacks _ providing the United States with a reason to attack Saddam. The Iraqi government denied the meetings ever occurred, and charged the reports were fabricated to justify making Iraq a target in the U.S.-led war on terror.

U.S. officials said the content of the alleged meetings was never definitively laid out. Some Czech officials said Atta had contacted Al-Ani, who was later expelled from the Czech Republic, to discuss an attack on the Prague building that serves as the headquarters for U.S.-funded Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty.

But Czech authorities have since retracted their statements to the U.S. government, saying that no such meetings took place. Atta is now believed to have been in the United States during the time he was supposed to have been meeting with Al-Ani, said a U.S. official, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

As recently as December, however, Czech and U.S. authorities said they believed the meetings took place. But Czech media questioned the claim, and President Vaclav Havel acknowledged the meetings may not have occurred.

In addition to being chief among the 19 hijackers, Mohammed Atta also led an al-Qaida cell based in Hamburg, Germany, which included two other hijackers and several more alleged co-conspirators who have not been captured.

U.S. officials have established numerous ties between the hijackers and al-Qaida, but none to Iraq's government -- and not for a lack of trying. Similar efforts to tie bin Laden to Hussein have yielded few ties. Officials say while opposing the United States is a common goal, bin Laden's motivations are religious, while Hussein's are secular.

To answer the question of this thread, I'm not "sold" on a war againt Iraq yet.

[This message has been edited by TheMouse (edited 06-06-2002).]