Yes it does, I'm open to any explanations, what do you guys think? Do it really suck, and actually fucken answer, I want to know what you think, k? Damn SOoOo tIrEd......

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-@OsiriS@-
Homage to thee, O Osiris, the lord of eternity, the king of the gods, thou who hast many names, whose forms of coming into being are holy, whose attributes are hidden in the temples.

I wished I could agree with you...but America doesn't suck, it just isn't as great as many make it seem.

i love america, i think it's great.

the people on the other hand tend to be another story entirely.

quote:

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[/B] the people on the other hand tend to be another story entirely.[/B]

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That is my reason for not liking it. Other than that its's not that bad. I think the people are a bit to patriotic though.

In truth, America is the greatest place on earth....
You can do anything....
Anyone who says america is shit, is just jealous...
Anyone from America reading this....you don't know how lucky you are to be american.

those who say america is second to none, have you spent a reasonable amount of time anywhere else on earth?

they get fuck-up by some tiny country and go and cry in brintain for help remember how got fuck-up in vietnam they sent everything they had with no assisstance from britain the only time they win a war is if 3or more countries support them.

Well that is true, and for the record I have lived from Malta to Bangladesh, one thing though, i'm not an American. About the "you can do anything" quote, that is true especially as it seems that you can sue anyone for such petty little things.

DARKOMEN, shut up. The Vietnam War wasn't a war of expansion it was political. We could of "won" the Vietnam war, we just would of had to wipe out the Vietnamese people to save them from themselves. That is hardly an acceptable end.

Bringing allies and other countries into this is smart. It spreads responsibility accross the globe.

>>they get fuck-up by some tiny country and go and cry <<

If this was a thousand years ago, no tiny country would dare fuck with a larger one. They knew the larger one would send their armies to wipe out their civilization. The age of empires is over. Global stability is the new dogma of the righteous. It creates small countries that think they can get away with messing with larger ones.

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A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
-Groucho Marx

[This message has been edited by Sol463 (edited 10-26-2001).]

America kicks ass. Our transients are fatter than most people in third world countries. Not to mention they are somehow able to afford alcohol almost daily. Truly the land of opportunity.

Many other countries with poor conditions are living up to their potential. America is not.

>>Many other countries with poor conditions are living up to their potential. America is not.<<

Name them.

Cuba

Turkey

Turkey

American doesn't suck. Society sucks. America plays a role in society.

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Brought to you by delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol

so anyone else think darkomen is a dumbass?

you shouldn't have drop out of fith grade man.

America is a country that revers money. And as a country that revers money, it has no moral code nor any justice.

We have morality. Strength, loyalty, reason, and family bonds are taboos.

america is O.K. it's the americans that suck ass. I would live in america but there is to many ignorant, patriotic dipshits

Hah! Too much patriotism? If you thought it was bad before the 11th, then you'd find it downright scary now.

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"God has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist."

Both patriotism and hatred towards a national identity are futile sentiments. Countries don't make people, society does.

But governments often influence society...

>>We have morality. Strength, loyalty, reason, and family bonds are taboos. <<

sorry, but that is completely a dipshit response

morality. A small faction of terrorists attack new york's trade center...so it's all good and just to carpet bomb an entire innocent country (well morals are morals, a moral doesnt have to be good, killing someone because they have grey hair, which makes them a witch, is moral)

Strength. Obesity, is that what you call strenght? the average person in america sits on their ass watching tv for hours a day

loyalty. To whom? it takes time to prove loyalties, our country is uner 300 years old, are we loyal to britain? no, we just recently had ourselves an insurrection...are we loyal to israel? we give them slight ammounts of supplies to let them start a holy war...is that even loyalty?

reason. ...oh no...they are taking five extra minutes to make a hamburger here...lets get the war over with...this is TOO much...

family bonds. how many couples file for divorce every year?

defiant, you show a true ignoracne here

"America Sucks"
America does not exist
People live on a mass of land, and claim they are American

How can one claim to belong to a mass of land others claim belongs to them.

In any case, when talking about whether America sucks or not, we are condemning people, not a mass of land.

That a mass of these people feel their belonging to a mass of land, soil, dirt, so intensely frightens me, makes them look moronic to me. I refrain from condemning them however. It is not their fault. They have been conditioned by those who claim to own the mass of land Americans claim to belong to so zealously.

(Needless to say that by Americas general acceptance that these people do in fact own the land, they have simultaneously enslaved themselves to these people)

The majority of Americans have been kept ignorant of the situation outside of the country, or the history of their countries errors. Take the CIA inspired military coup in Chile, and the CIA sponsorship of Saddam, Batista, the south Vietnamese government, Milosovich, or the Taliban for that matter. If confronted with this and preferably a better education, perhaps the group of people who so proudly claim they are enslaved by the better mass of land they call America would reconsider.

I myself was born with documents claiming I was German and American, to people who not so proudly claim to be German because of enforced education towards the history of their country.
Having grown up on their mass of land it seems alien to me that people are not educated thoroughly in America. In Germany further education in college is free for all sensible enough to educate themselves in school.

Im sorry if what I have written appears to have left the topic area slightly, or vastly, who cares.

I prithy you, believe what you wish. If you believe it is true it is. All truth requires is someone to believe in it.

Ramblings once again. A common effect when I have been deprived of sleep.

Feel free to agree, disagree, or ignore what I have said. I felt like saying it.
Today I believe it, so its true.
Maybe tomorrow I wont, hopefully by then someone else will have decided to believe it,

Max

quote:

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Originally posted by RAOVQ:
those who say america is second to none, have you spent a reasonable amount of time anywhere else on earth?

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Yes, I have been to several European countries and found them to be quite wanting. I have also been to mexico wich really clinched the superiority of the United states in my mind.

quote:

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Originally posted by DARKOMEN18:
they get fuck-up by some tiny country and go and cry in brintain for help remember how got fuck-up in vietnam they sent everything they had with no assisstance from britain the only time they win a war is if 3or more countries support them.

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damnit man english is my language could you try not to butcher it. Though I doubt It made sence even before you translated it to pigeon english.

osiris, your name will take on new signifigance when I cut of your penis throw it into a river and send you to the land of the dead.

oh and for the rest of you neither morality nor justice exist. They are just pleasant concepts you percive to exist so you can sleep at night; ultimatly morality is only what those with the power to say what it is is, IE the media, religion, ect.

Don't make fun of people because they can't speak your language as well as you can. Think of it, do you speak German, or decent Spanish, or Dutch (Afrikaans) for that matter?

Well actually I don't think America sucks. I mean yes the corruption in the government, but not America, I just wanted to see what kind of responses I would get, so don't get mad Smithee....

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-@OsiriS@-
Homage to thee, O Osiris, the lord of eternity, the king of the gods, thou who hast many names, whose forms of coming into being are holy, whose attributes are hidden in the temples.

Habitual defensive response.

quote:

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Originally posted by RAOVQ:
those who say america is second to none, have you spent a reasonable amount of time anywhere else on earth?

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Yes, I have lived outside of the American Iron Curtain. The system of the United States of America is TERRIBLE. The land and Spirit of the land is BEAUTIFUL, but is desecrated by the corruption and greed of the system.

Most Americans don't know the difference between the system and the land. We have been brainwashed from childhood, to equate the 'system' with the beauty of this land, with songs like 'America The Beautiful' which speaks of the beauty of the land, (spacious skies.. amber waves of grain, purple mountains magesties.... from sea to shining sea' and that song was always followed by the National Anthem which speaks of the US revolution an Flag ... 'What so proudly we hailed, at the twighlight's last gleaming... and the Rocket's Red Glare, the Bombs Bursting in Air, gave proof through the night, that our flag was still there... Oh say does that star spangled banner yet wave, over the land of the free and the home of the brave.'

Then we place our hands over our hearts to say 'The Pledge of Allegience to the Flag of the United States of America' which is bullshit.

I don't know what they taught Hitler's Youth, but it couldn't have been any worse than this.

So, my point is that Americans have all been brainwashed since early childhood. Not even to mention the lies about our history taught in the schools.

The system needs those 'patriotic' bodies to feed the war machine

So now you have flag waving so called 'patriotic Americans' who basically and simply don't know any better.

We are not allowed to see what life is really like outside of the Iron Curtain of the United States. That this Country is the best is just pounded into our brains from early childhood.

I could go on with more clear and conspiratorial ways by which we are brainwashed to believe that this is the best Country in the world and best place to live, but I don't have the time right now

In Truth, all parts of the world are BEAUTIFUL and I would love to live for awhile in all of them. [The US tells us how bad and miserable all these other places are-most of them don't even have television sets!]

quote:

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Originally posted by Alan Smithee:
Yes, I have been to several European countries and found them to be quite wanting.

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Probably 'wanting' you to go back to where ever you came from Smithie.

I have been to your home of Portland, Oregon numerous times: homeless impoverished people, some with college degrees, others mentally ill sleeping in doorways, living behind and eating out of dumpsters, sleeping under bushes and bridges, muggers, child molestors and preditors of all kinds prowling the streets, drunks and drug addicts lying about, killings, stabbings, police cars all over the place, people being arrested and hauled off to jail.

Great place, Portland Oregon, USA


[This message has been edited by nsolitude (edited 11-04-2001).]

quote:

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Originally posted by RAOVQ:


Yes, I have been to several European countries and found them to be quite wanting. I have also been to mexico wich really clinched the superiority of the United states in my mind.

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I have seen Americans tourists in Hellas and they tend to value most its "old rocks" and beaches as the most important facet of Hellas. Alot of them show no sign of wanting to learn anything of the language of the nation they are visiting or its culture.

The most redeeming value of any nation you visit will be its culture, if you do not value learning new cultures you will not like any nation you visit and think your nation is better. The tourists who visit just to have sex, swim on beaches and take pictures of ancient ruins are odd to me as they can do most of that in their own nation for much cheaper. It also must be annoying to such tourists that they speak "Hellenic" as it must make things terribly inconvenient for them.

Anyway the point of my diatribe is if you do not like to learn a new culture, you will always view whatever nation you are visiting as inferior. Most people think their nation is the greatest nation in the world. The Americans tend to brim with this attribute, perhaps because they are so introverted and travel rarely to other nations despite their wealth.

How many people will even know what Hellas is?


[This message has been edited by Peter_Kropotkin (edited 11-05-2001).]

quote:

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Originally posted by nsolitude:

I could go on with more clear and conspiratorial ways by which we are brainwashed to believe that this is the best Country in the world and best place to live, but I don't have the time right now

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In school in the United States when I was very young they made you sing a Gutherie song in Kindergarten. This indocrination started during the Cold War days, so that we could have national pride or something.:

"This land is your land, This land is my
land,
from California to the New York island;
From the redwood forest to the Gulf Stream waters
This land was made for you and me."

We only went as far as the first verse as kindergarteners can not really memorize the whole song. It would have been a more realistic song if it went: "This land is indian land, We killed them, From California to New York, Now this land is for you and me!"

[This message has been edited by Peter_Kropotkin (edited 11-05-2001).]

It seems that there are those on both sides of this issue. Some stand behind America and some don't. Some know the big picture and othersdon't have the first clue.

Well, it's time to step up to the plate and either hit a home run or take the out. Contact me and ask for details about Dick Gregory's Twenty-First Century State of the Union Address. Once you become aware of the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, delivered in its courageous style, you'll become informed which will empower you to make informed decisions about the topic of this forum.

Your life, your way of thinking and your mode of understanding will never be the same again.

Let's hear from you.

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IfI Can Help Somebody, Just Ask! If Not, I Can't Begin to Help You!

quote:

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Originally posted by nsolitude or whatever his name is:


I have been to your home of Portland, Oregon numerous times: homeless impoverished people, some with college degrees, others mentally ill sleeping in doorways, living behind and eating out of dumpsters, sleeping under bushes and bridges, muggers, child molestors and preditors of all kinds prowling the streets, drunks and drug addicts lying about, killings, stabbings, police cars all over the place, people being arrested and hauled off to jail.

Great place, Portland Oregon, USA

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I Rarely see any police cars around and have never witnessed a crime more heinous than jaywalking. Im not sure what city you visited but it wasn't Portland. Also your rant about the mild amount of patriotism being instilled in children being at least as bad as the hitler youth only shows your insurmountable ignorance of history. Hitler youth was a compulsory program in which children learned to veiw Hitler as a kind of god on earth, the fact that there are people like you in this country that harbour such hate towards its institutions is proof against your arguements.

VeneFrigus, I have been gone a while, but I would like to dredge up this argument again.

>>Many other countries with poor conditions are living up to their potential. America is not.<<

Name them.

>>Cuba<<

>>Turkey<<

Ha ha ha hah.

Yeah, like a retarded kid in the special olympics is living up to his potential.

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Uh... something like that.

This is what officially made the U.S. into a police state.

That Statue of Liberty's gotta come down now, the inscription on it ("Give me your tired, your poor, etc. etc.") and what it once stood for now no longer applies.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Alan Smithee:
Hitler youth was a compulsory program in which children learned to veiw Hitler as a kind of god on earth, the fact that there are people like you in this country that harbour such hate towards its institutions is proof against your arguements.

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America has had periods where it was illegal to be a radical. I do not expect a jingoist like you to remember or even care about those periods. One of those periods was called the McCarthy Era. In America you are taught to harbour hate to any social or political system that challenges the current ones.

I dont hate communists because the government tells me, I think there wrong because I hold libertarian veiws, and yeah that is pretty sickening how people are willing to give up rights and liberties for security. Hopefully the people can be brought to their sences.

"America Sucks"

Like many subjective statements such as this, I will have to both disagree and agree.

1. Disagreeing
I disagree in the fact that America is far better off than many countries. This is of course obvious.

America has many rights set forth by the bill of rights and thus isnt bad in that manner. This again is obvious.

America is somewhat free and good overall I suppose. Hey, we're better off than 3rd world countries - thats one way to look at it.

2. Agree
But... then again there is GW Bush, republicans, religious folk, and others.

Let's look at Canada, Amsterdam, and the UK. My 3 favorite countries.

Canada is very much like the united states.. except more liberal. Canada has come close numerous times to legalizing/decrim. marijuana. Canadians are liberal in their religion. Canada rocks compared to the US.

Amsterdam we all know is a liberal haven. Prostitutes, weed... what else could you ask for? Oh yeah, like Canada and the UK, they dont have capital punishment. Go dutch.

Then there is the UK. The UK is a great country. It has the good qualities of Canada (and other civilized nations), minus the French (heh), and also is just really cool becuase of those awesome accents.

Need I say more? I just listed countries that are living up to their potential. American doesnt like those countries very much. Who would have thought?

I couldn't agree with nsloitude more. In Germany they called it propaganda. America it's called patriotism. Germany it was the jews who were the evil ones. America it's them sand niggers that are "the evil ones". Germany had the SS. America it's gonna be the FBI that comes to haul you off. Germany justified it's war by means of revenge against the french for taking their land. America justifies it's war by a terrorist act? yeah your country is really great. So was germany when hitler ruled. if you think about it.

Hitler was out to "purify" the human race through mass execution, not exactly what I would call a noble deed.

alright, here is my two points of IQ at work. america has the best foundation (the constitution) of any country, to ever exist on this planet. it is us the politicians, secret agencies, and the people who ultimately fuck it up. first the politicians, well these sorry assholes care more about saving their senate seat then assing a "controversial" bill that might do something to upset the capitalists. they also won't convert the nation to another source of "energy" because oil companies "donate" so much money to campaigns, charities that the politicians support,etc..... and we would rid our problems in the middle east if we used more hydrogen energy, windmills, solar, etc... secret agencies, well the nsa, spies on phone calls from around the entire world. what happened to foreigners privacy? not to mention the fact that they spy on us, monitor, emails, instant messages, phone calls, etc..... the cia trained and armed guatemalan death squads, responsible for 40,000 civilians deaths. i believe they killed JFK. they are in the drug trafficing business. now for the people the biggest problem, us for letting our politicians get so powerful, not putting a cap on how many times a senator can be re-elected. think about it, if you are a senator and you want to keep your seat you are going to vote the way the media portrays the way the public wants you to vote so they are satisfied and you will be in for another 6 years. not to mention to horrific foreign policy we have used. imf, adb, wto, world bank, all these insitutions are run for profit. these companies give loans to 3rd world countries so these poor countries can make life better for the people. well these gracious banks make these countries pay back the loans with interest. HELLO, the ADB's main goal is to rid asia of poverty, how the fuck are they going to rid asia of poverty when all these countries are spending what little money they have on paying back those loans. goddamn i hate banks. "patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries, because you were born in it" george benard shaw. in closing, if america is so great? why do we have more criminals then any other country in the world? if our country is so great? then why do only 60% (give or take a couple of percent) register to vote, and only 50% show up to vote? why do we have people dying of very curable illnesses, beacuse hospitals are now run for money. not saving lives. this country was great now i wouldn't even wipe my ass with the flag because it already has too much shit on it. peace, this is my opinions some facts were provided, but these are my OPINIONS. please make the distinction between fact and opinion when reading any article, post, etc.....

The American Constitution is the most incomplete fundamental law there is. The Spanish Constitution is much better.

And most of what is great about the American Constitution comes from the Magna Carta

....and the law comes from the bible

no the magnacarta was a list of privelledges given to nobility. It does lend the protection against search and seasure and the the right to confront ones accuser but thats about it. the rest of it is derived from english common law, the works of Montesque, the works of Locke, the works of Voltaire, and the works of Jean Jacques Rousseau

quote:

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Originally posted by MesserschmidtBf109:
The American Constitution is the most incomplete fundamental law there is. The Spanish Constitution is much better.

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I am sure this is a completely objective opinion on your part.

especially from a spaniard living in belgium.

Yes, considering that the original American constitution has been amended 25 times. The Spanish Constitution about twice or thrice.

times change.

apparently a little faster here though huh?

>>>>>Yes, considering that the original American constitution has been amended 25 times. The Spanish Constitution about twice or thrice. <<<<<<<<

How many changes did Stalins regime make?

No, the Spanish Constitution included all the points that had to be amended. There was already a 5th Amendment, a 6th, a 15th, etc..., in the Spanish one.

When was it drafted?