Quite obviously, Americans seem to be able to deal high handedly with every nation but its own. It can deal death to millions, and yet somehow becomes mystified at how citizens of other nations can become upset. Newsflash of the day: Imperialist bastards who think they can get away with murdering, enslaving, and inhumane torturing of other citizens of the world can wake the hell up now, because we obviously are not going to take any more.
Innocents died, you say. Well they quite obviously deserved it. Every time you failed to overthrow the government that oppressed us, every time that you utilized more than your fair share of the world's resources, angered burned in the hearts of those that would be free. A pox upon all of you, that sat in your bedrooms and watched your biased news. A plague upon those who believed in America's racist policies abroad.

A new day begins upon the world.

Signed,

Humanity

So why exactly do you believe that every American supported those actions? And didn't Jesus rebuke the eye for an eye doctrine, what about turn the other cheek?

YOUR dearest friend,

Enlightenment

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Common Sense Is What Tells You The Earth Is Flat

Didnt Jesus renounce Nature, only to prove his fate was entangled with it? Why does a word he ever uttered matter to anyone?

No, I'm your dearest friend, you ridiculous moron. You see, every American probably supported your governments cruel actions because they didn't know any better! Do you truly need me to cite evidence against America's actions against the world? You seem to be slightly educated by a socialization process designed to create flag waving butt fucking zombies. So why don't you tell me where I have my ideas mixed up?
Did America not kill an estimated MILLION iraqi children when we decided to starve the populace by cutting of trade?
Did America not invade numerous peaceful democracies whose only crime was to advocate socialism for it's people? (For you brainwashed American Children, Capitalism does not equal Democracy, Nor does Socialism equal Totalitarianism. Capitalism and Socialism are economic systems, and Democracy and Totalitarian are systems of government.)

Your most dear friend interested in your countries welfare,

Humanity

P.S. Since when was this an arguement about religion? And why should I give a shit about your Jesus? What sense does a religion make when it says that they worship one god, who has three manifestations? Get a reality check going.

quote:

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Originally posted by The_Famicommie:
So why exactly do you believe that every American supported those actions? And didn't Jesus rebuke the eye for an eye doctrine, what about turn the other cheek?

YOUR dearest friend,

Enlightenment

---

Jesus! What the fuck does jesus have to do with your Imperialist ideology? Did Jesus tell you to kill innocents? Did Jesus tell you to enslave others for drugs and money? Did Jesus tell you to import women into the US and degrade them with your filthy sex practices? Did you God tell you to do all this? What kind of God tells you to enslave those who merely have a socioeconomic status that is poor, BASED on your countries interventions! So get on the fucking topic, you demented piece of shit!

quote:

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Originally posted by Defiant Exile:
Didnt Jesus renounce Nature, only to prove his fate was entangled with it? Why does a word he ever uttered matter to anyone?

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This sheds a funny light on the consequences of lying about freedom. Governments have almost nothing to do with the will of the people except when created along tribal lines. But most here maintain our government is very much an expression of our national will. So, that means if you believe this government to be yours, you support its actions and do then deserve retribution against you. Its a good thing I believe this government to be a tyrannical imposition and do not consider myself represented in Washington, on Wall Street, or in Hollywood.

What country are you from iamyourgodnow? Your obviously not from America. If you were, you'd realize that not everyone here supports the bombing. That not everyone supports the killing of a million of iraqi chilrden. Maybe your the one who has been brainwashed into thinking that all Americans are stupid beer drinking Christian's who love to wave their flags and shoot guns?

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"God has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist."

I hate this shit. Every fucking week some new idiot is here preaching what we should and shouldn't think.

Get a clue, freak. I don't buy gas from shell because I don't support their anti-immigration policies. The religion bit was included to highlight your ignorance of the word "humanity". I was bringing in morals and ethics you stereotyping, generalizing, fanatic of shit that the anarkizt undergroundz brought forth. Back to the sewers with you.

Your worst enemy,
Reasoning

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Common Sense Is What Tells You The Earth Is Flat

Dear Well Intentioned Ignoramus,
Many of the Americans here don't like American foriegn policy. Don't think that all Americans support the government. And stop posting stuff like this on all the boards. Besides, some of us don't really care. Don't confuse this with ignorance. Besides, where are we to find such entertainment but in the government?

Your Slightly irrated fellow revolutionaries,
The Non-steriotypical American and Callousness

"Do you truly need me to cite evidence against America's actions against the world?"

yes, so we can clarify your delusional views.

"Did America not kill an estimated MILLION iraqi children when we decided to starve the populace by cutting off trade?"

why would we support somebody who has brought nothing but instability to the region. the iraq-iran war, how many people even know what that was about, arab fighting arab, muslim fighting muslim. the invasion of kuwait, how many women were raped by iraqi soldiers in front of their children, how many men were hung in the streets, and this isn't american propaganda, this is kuwaiti evidence, arabs and muslims just like those who invaded them. and if american presence hadn't been in saudi arabia, he'd probably have that now as well remember they did cross the border. he's fucked with his own people the whole time, the only open attack on israel, was in the face of defeat hoping israel would attack and get the other arab nations on his side. how come he didn't take over jordan? seems so simple since his brother is king hussein.

and you must really be a jackass if you think food can be and has been an embargoed item. i notice saddam has a little pot belly, maybe HE should've distributed the wealth among his people.

GROW THE FUCK UP,

no you're right it was all our sanctions that starved the people of iraq, because although they know how to fire a gun they don't know how to plant a garden, how the hell did these people survive a thousand years ago?

"Did America not invade numerous peaceful democracies whose only crime was to advocate socialism for it's people"

right again, it's amazing how we overthrew the socialist economies of canada and many european nations.

"Did Jesus tell you to import women into the US and degrade them with your filthy sex practices?"

did allah tell you that women are worthless pieces of shit not deserving of an education, and that you can marry as many of them as YOU want.

"Did Jesus tell you to kill innocents?"

apparently allah told this to you.
"Innocents died, you say. Well they quite obviously deserved it."

"Imperialist bastards who think they can get away with murdering, enslaving, and inhumane torturing of other citizens of the world can wake the hell up now,"

are you talking about america here or libya, where they stoned a women to death which led to the death of her "child" in the center of town last week for being pregnant out of wedlock.

i forgot how civilized stoning and dragging the dead bodies of your enemy through the streets is.

"Every time you failed to overthrow the government that oppressed us,"

maybe instead of looking at america, you should look at those that hold direct authority over you, maybe since we have no voice in local policy you should look at those who do, or why hasn't one of these governments gone to war with us?

"every time that you utilized more than your fair share of the world's resources"

again look at your own leaders whose love for the american dollar makes him hand over more than our fair share.

"angered burned in the hearts of those that would be free"

woulda, coulda, shoulda never did anything, again look at your own leaders who live in palaces, what the hell could they possibly tell you people, 'i have all of this because of america, you have nothing because of america, and i can't give what i have to you for it was a gift and that would be like refusing it, by the way the parade for me will start tomorrow at sunrise and continue through the day'

"A pox upon all of you, that sat in your bedrooms and watched your biased news."

again i forgot how much the governments of the middle east revel in a free press society.

"A plague upon those who believed in America's racist policies abroad"

right again, a society that features every aspect humanity has to offer must be racist.

you know jack, we've had our differences, and i do respect your peacenik attitude, and you might be surprised that in this one lone instance, i'm not one myself, i've never been a fan of war, but i also have to be a realist and admit it does have it's place.

this is not a war, by any conventional terms though, these are people who don't fall under the ideology of a nation, or a nation that will admit it anyway.

i like to compare terrorists to a deadly bacteria,

bacteria is a life form, and unlike terrorists though, probably has no idea that it's very existance threatens the living entity it is a part of, you don't look for a way for your body and the bacteria to co-exist, you don't blame prior actions for the justification of letting the bacteria run rampant, it ultimately has to be one or the other, and if left alone long enough, you may even have to lose other elements of your body.

i view the human race as a single entity, every nation representing a part of the body, each performing a function necessary to the survival of the whole, now we've got a disease running rampant through our body that we've left alone for a long time, because a few hundred people dying in comparison to the whole world dying was trivial,

it went from a handful in the 70's to a few dozen deaths in the 80's, the 90's saw a few hundred meet their fate to an ideology that hid behind a name and a religion, and didn't have enough pride in their beliefs to show their face or even try to start a dialog of any kind to have their grievances heard.

the millenium went from a few hundred, to a few thousand.

a few thousand people dead, not in the course of a military campaign, not through the course of an epidemic, not in a month, not in week, not in a day, not even in an hour.

but a matter of minutes.

does anybody know how they tally up dead people in shit like this?

they count the heads, because body parts are usually all over the place, when they find a skull they make a tic.

rummage through 6,000 skulls, then think of 12,000 parents and the 6,000 husbands and wives and i'll be lenient and say 3,000 children whose life this skull was an intimate part of

21,000 people, not including friends to make a "statement" you can't show your face for.

which makes me believe that statements like the one below should not be understood, but eradicated.

"Innocents died, you say. Well they quite obviously deserved it. Every time you failed to overthrow the government that oppressed us, every time that you utilized more than your fair share of the world's resources"

if not history has only shown us that shortly after 2010 it will be several million people gone in a few minutes.

care to make a wager on which city will be obliterated from the face of the earth?

Hmmm. Perhaps I shouldn't have gone on such a rampage when my opinions were obviously a product of an incredibly adept socialization process. Maybe my own ignorance was a factor in the blatant idiocy I displayed as I typed my vicious propaganda. There is a possiblity that my rage at your American government is merely a manifestation of a hatred towards authority that I possess. Learning is a process by which one cannot find his faults unless he makes a complete mockery of his ideas and beliefs, which are based on the poltical dogma and rhetoric that the media has imposed upon my neanderthull-like skull. With such intellect to guide me out of my darkness, I hope to be able to correct my heinous flaws. Thank you all for your imput.

And an actually serious question: If, as I have head it claimed, the general citizenry of a country is not aware and responsible for the actions of a government, how can this fictious, imaginary country, actually claim to be a democracy, when it's practices seem to indicate it's very absense? Of course, the fact that you can read and understand this post probably means you have a greater social understanding than the rest of the populace, so this question may not apply to the social activists in this respectable online community.

Sincerely,

An Arragant Foriegner

Here is my reasoning on why Governments have the will of the people, and why citizens in democracies must take responsiblity for their leaders' actions. Correct me where I am mistaken, Defiant Exile.

A democracy means that you can replace the phrase "the government" with "we the people". So civic responsiblity is a function of direct access to voting via State Referendums, and voting politicans that agree with some of your philosophies into office. So you have a direct voice on a ballot, and you elect representitives. It seems fairly clean cut.
Thus, if the government your people IS compromised by people you elect, how is it that you are not responsible for your role in the actions taken by the world?
I may be a foriegn infidel, but I hold you accountable for these reasons, as an individual and as a society. Correct me where I am mistaken, I wish to learn my foolish blunders.
Also, how can government be a "tyranical imposition" if YOU ARE THE GOVERNMENT?
Sincerely,

Foriegn Infidel

quote:

---

Originally posted by Defiant Exile:
This sheds a funny light on the consequences of lying about freedom. Governments have almost nothing to do with the will of the people except when created along tribal lines. But most here maintain our government is very much an expression of our national will. So, that means if you believe this government to be yours, you support its actions and do then deserve retribution against you. Its a good thing I believe this government to be a tyrannical imposition and do not consider myself represented in Washington, on Wall Street, or in Hollywood.

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"Also, how can government be a "tyranical imposition" if YOU ARE THE GOVERNMENT?"

Hahahah Outlander

theyve found the best way of counting bodies is counting right arms.

"i view the human race as a single entity, every nation representing a part of the body, each performing a function necessary to the survival of the whole, now we've got a disease running rampant through our body" (lostmind). and your the cure?, or is the mighty democratic feedom loving United States Of America the cure, here to wipe evil off the earth for ever? cause that what it sounds like your implying.

maybe the disese is religion as a whole?
eradicate that, and people would be alot happier, more free, and they might think with there brians, and not emotions.

"Maybe your the one who has been brainwashed into thinking that all Americans are stupid beer drinking Christian's who love to wave their flags and shoot guns?" (jacks missing mind) im from australia (remember us, your devoted allies?) and that the impression i get, the only thing is, that to be a flag waving NRA fucker is good in your country for some reason, so you fail to notice it.

"to be a flag waving NRA fucker is good in your country for some reason, so you fail to notice it."

no, actually it's called freedom of choice. intent is obvious, it's the most basic privilege and responsibility of americans, be what you want to be. if that bothers you, maybe you should concentrate on your own 5% of village idiots?
show me a country where government is "we the people" and i will show you an oligarchy. "we the people" is what they used to put on the top part of ussr's newspapers, right until it collapsed. just because you prefer so-called democratization of all values doesn't mean that we have to drop acceptance of many different ideologies. it's a science of sorts, both madison and hamilton have theories of collective rationality and empirical political economy. southern defenders of slavery were the earliest to develop deterministic and authoritarian sociology, but after the civil war, northerners emulated them with social darwinism and myriad of causal laws to help them grasp constant change in industrial society. we didn't abandon premodern democracy in favor of atomized, idiosyncratic individualism. both have co-existed for a very long time. it's a basic concept. all of the aspects of american political culture and heritage are simple ideological commitments. interventionist politics are of simple nature as well - any nation-state, given the power would become a key figure in interventionist foreign politics. and if america has to be a deciding factor in post-conflict power sharing, well, too bad. if america has to design democracy for countries were only rule is that of a fist, then assumptions aside, we have something to gain from it. dead terrorist is good enough for me. if you think this is horrible, you can move to fucking iraq, because right now we have a unilateral support in any decision we make, courtesy of the 'the rest of the world' minus a few muslim states here and there. we'll buy you ticket, since it's going to be one way. iraqis see no difference in whether you're american or not. as long as you're white, it's ok to blow your brains out. children can wait, they were dying before america even got there, so what gives, massa mutambu?
you still think we fail to notice? i'd rather live with a flag-waving nra fucker than with ak-47 waving muslim fundamentalist. drunk christian is better than sober fundamentalist muslim. as for casualties - i don't remember anyone discussing 'possible civilian casualties during our attack on wtc towers. but oh, muhammed, but a buncha american dead if i fly plane into the mamajaglo, sen kimesa ra'gaatrakewtc oy, usama?
true democracy is utopia, just read plato's republic, see what the creators of democracy favored above all. it won't be "we the people." "you the people" cannot make collective decisions. if this was any other country, you'd still be arguing on what trucks to use to clear the rubble, and who has to do what.

I agree 100% that as a government we deserved this bombing in that it was a wake up call, and an opportunity for a country to know how it feels to be on the other side of the coin, the oppressed, not the violent oppressers.

Regardless, I can't take anyone that says 6,000 innocent people deserved to die. I just can't. So please shut the fuck up before people start to group the two of us for sharing the same premise.

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Brought to you by delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol

no raovq i am not the cure,

if i am wrong what do you suggest?

or do people throwing rocks through your window calling you a nigger lover make you think they might be right.

right and wrong may be philosophical differences,

but stupidity has a way of being appallingly apparent.

if they are doing this for their religion as the chosen people of an all powerful god.

you'd think just one of them would ask if allah is all powerful, and we are his blessed people, why wouldn't he get rid of those that oppress us himself.

you know why you never hear of the people that ask this.

because they aren't the people who blow themselves up.

i don't know what to do about this but im sure that bombing a country to get a small group of people (burning the haystack to find the needle) is not a wise idea, as this is what america has been doing for the past half-century and it has, i think by all acounts, ot worked.

no one deserves to die, not even bin laden (but what people deserve is rarely what they get) so maybe america should try to fix the problem, not hide the symptoms. america has the world record for diffrent countires bombed over time and this achives little, if anything. http://nyc.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=13474&group=webcast explains (although a long read) some reasons why this happened very well, even if you disagree.

The reason the US bombs so many countries is that it has so many forieng interests.

i see alot of buzzwords being thrown around, but not the concepts to back them up.

Like with our cherished freedoms come responsibility. And we are a resource hog.

America has long been the odds on favorite to play Policeman of the World. It is something that we as American's take for granted. Goes with the turf and all that happy shit. Admit it. So we finally got our little asses spanked. It was bound to happen sooner or later.

Hey that link RAOVQ pasted is fucking brilliant! Talk about good points.

here's a taste:
"With all due respect to President Bush, the people of the world do not have to choose between the Taliban and the US government. All the beauty of human civilisation - our art, our music, our literature - lies beyond these two fundamentalist, ideological poles. There is as little chance that the people of the world can all become middle-class consumers as there is that they will all embrace any one particular religion. The issue is not about good v evil or Islam v Christianity as much as it is about space. About how to accommodate diversity, how to contain the impulse towards hegemony � every kind of hegemony, economic, military, linguistic, religious and cultural.

Any ecologist will tell you how dangerous and fragile a monoculture is. A hegemonic world is like having a government without a healthy opposition. It becomes a kind of dictatorship. It�s like putting a plastic bag over the world, and preventing it from breathing. Eventually, it will be torn open."

It's a long report but definately the best one I have read on the subject.

With that whole thing about democracy and the 'will' of the people. We live in a republican democracy. We elect leaders to represent us. However, since a politician's words cannot be trusted, we vote retroactively. It isn't the greatest thing in the world, but it beats the hell out of rule by god-given right.

An even worse problem is our two-faced bi-partisan system. These two groups control most of the money, therefore most of the media. People are afraid to stand up and vote for the candidate that's truly the best because, due to the winner take all policy of the electoral vote system, people think that it's possible to throw their vote away.

Our system has it's problems, but things could be a lot worse.

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Common Sense Is What Tells You The Earth Is Flat

Two, three, four whatever party system. If you say that this political system we currently employ actually works likes it's supposed to, then you are either blind or a fool. We are still a resource hog. Stop avoiding the issues.

resource hog? I am supposed to be guilty for belonging to the most industrious nation of people on earth? sure we use up one quarter of the energy being prodused but we produce as much as the entire continent of Europe which posseses a population more than thrice that of ours.

In responce to that dullard Iamyourgodnow: I could make some logical responce to your militant stupidity but I really dont feel your worth it so instead I invite you to suck it, suck it long, and suck it hard.