First off, throw away all dictionary definitions. They will be of no use to you.

Conservative: Believes in natural rights give to us as human beings. Has extreme faith and trust in the individual. Believes in tradition. Unfortunately, many people like to think that conservatives want all women to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. *sad* Believes that if given the freedom, ordinary people can accomplish extraordinary things! Those are the people that made America great! They went through trials and tribulations, but came out stronger as a result.

Liberal: People are incompetent. They are a victim of something, and must be helped through it. Very anti-change. If you think about liberal people are some of the meanest people you know! If you disagree with them, they op to try and shut you up, instead of debating with you. Despite what you may think, they are racists. They believe that black ppl, minorities are so dumb, that they need affirmative action. They need to have standards lowered for them to get into Universities and be placed into jobs. They cannot do it on their own.

------------------
You're in a laundry room, You're in a laundry room, the clue just came to you? Oh.

Conservative : Believe people need to earn trust and respect.

LiberalL: Believe that people automatically are trusworthy and deserve respect.

Stop embarassing yerself. Conservatives are all about less government. They trust the trust the American people to live their lives and contribute to the country without Gov. watching over them. That sounds to me like they automatically trust people.

BTW which presidential candidate sa, "I trust you to give you back your money"?

------------------
You're in a laundry room, You're in a laundry room, the clue just came to you? Oh.

conservatives tend to be moraly reactionary veiwing certain practices, such as drug use prostitution and homosexuality as immoral and needing to be stoped.

Wheras liberals are moraly progressive in believing that people should not have The government regulating morality. However they oppose drug use and prostitution on the level of not trusting individuals to be truly free.

That Is why I am a Libertarian. What you discribe in your ideal, about trusting people to be free is the backbone of the libertarian party. The choice between republican and democrat is between large government and huge government and how you want your life controled, by a preacher or a nanny.

Libertarians are conservatives, right Smithee? And they are for an ending of the drug war. Gee, who knew?

If it's so important to throw away the dictionary definitions, why are you then making your own?

There's many a conservative who holds several beliefs you attributed to liberals, and vice versa.

People don't get boxed up all nice and neatly like you're trying to do. No wonder you seem like you're pulling out your hair, trying to figure everyone out..

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spiffy McBang:
If it's so important to throw away the dictionary definitions, why are you then making your own?
[B]

---

If I [b]did, liberals would seem like conservatives and vice versa. You are incorrect about me boxing people up.


------------------
You're in a laundry room, You're in a laundry room, the clue just came to you? Oh.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lokil:
If I [b]did, liberals would seem like conservatives and vice versa. You are incorrect about me boxing people up.[/B]

---

I assume you mean if you didn't..

So, if you didn't, your idea of liberals would seem like conservatives and vice versa. Didja ever think that might be because, much of the time, it's true?

Yeah some people say that, and to a certain extent they are correct.

Conservatives are dillusional patriots that believe in disregarding human rights and pursuing sick, capitalist ideals. They put an emphasis on morality in the law, in which money is wasted on punishing people for victimless crimes and imposing their personal beliefs on other people.

Liberals are lazy bums that think they can give out everything, and preach dependance on the gov't. They discourage people from doing anything for themselves, and they the country to exist in some sort of unrealistic union that will lead to no personal achievement.

Sorry, just being the devil's advocate. I steer to the left a bit, in that I don't want personal morality imposed on the country. But I do believe people should be able to do things for themselves. WIth restriction. Ah!!!!

All this thinking is making me wanna a good ol joint. Can't because the congress believes it's wrong.

That's what liberals make the mistake. They are scared to death that is religious people get elected to office they are going to shove their beliefs on their electorate. Not true! Religion is not a a hobby, it's more emcompassing than that. It's effects all aspects of one's life.

The liberals are freaked out because of people like John Ashcroft. Tell me he doesn't try to enforce his beliefs on the nation.

[This message has been edited by UnclNastyFingerz (edited 05-26-2001).]

I'm watching just as closely as you are. At least he isn't a Janet Reno, whew.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lokil:
That's what liberals make the mistake. They are scared to death that is religious people get elected to office they are going to shove their beliefs on their electorate. Not true! Religion is not a a hobby, it's more emcompassing than that. It's effects all aspects of one's life.

---

Wouldn't making laws be an aspect of a politician's life?

If someone is elected to office, the smaller the area they represent, the greater the chance they won't be "inflicting" their morality on the electorate that voted them in because the majority of them (at least, the ones who care) generally don't have a problem, if not agree, with the politician's morals. In some places, it's a basic reason for voting for a candidate.

Once you get into the higher offices, though (Congress moreso than the Presidency), you have people who represent one state out of 50 trying to press their moral views into law. The vast majority of Americans didn't vote for any given Congressman, yet some of them have enough pull with their fellow politicians to affect the entire country. When those powerful few are intent on basing laws around morals, it's troublesome to see and dangerous to what freedom we still have.

What balony, you need to lighten up, Spiffy (seriously) Religion is not prison, Jesus

Religion is a prison. Well, the current most popular one is. We have to do exactly as the old book says or we go to hell. And Janet's gone. I'd be happy if the person who replaced her wasn't 5 times worse.

Religion itself isn't a prison, but the way it's used, it might as well be.

Lighten up? I'm perfectly relaxed.. where was I wrong in what I said?

Last time I checked the Catholic religion, they were all about forgiveness as long as you wanted it badly enough.

Spiffy, I meant yer thought, I am relaxed physically as well. That could be because of the codeine but who really knows.

A poster on another board gave these amusing stereotypes:
Conservatives want to be your authoritarian god-king.
Liberals want to be your benevolent dictator.
Libertarians want to be your grasping feudal lord.

Hi Lokil.
This liberal is willing to engage in open and honest debate with you. Lets start with our own definition of our beliefs. A handy reference is Liberalism Resurgent.

quote:

---

( From it's FAQ )

What do liberals believe about rights, property and the "social contract?"

Liberals believe that group survival is more efficient than individual survival. That is why true hermits are so extremely rare. But any group effort requires group agreement, cooperation and coordination. This in turn necessitates a social contract defining each member's rights and responsibilities. In the U.S., voters have created their social contract in the form of their constitution and laws. Breaking the law constitutes breach of contract, and legitimizes the appropriate law enforcement measures.
What forms the basis of rights and property found in the social contract? Whatever the voters agree to -- which means they can be anything, as indeed history has shown. And how are their rights and property defended? Primarily by the enforcement mechanisms authorized by the contract: police, military, legislatures, courts, etc. Without such enforcement, the agreements themselves would be precarious, and nothing could stop a stronger neighbor from violating your rights or your property.

Many conservatives consider rights to be natural, inalienable, God-given and self-evident. But rights cannot be natural, like the laws of nature, because they can be broken. They cannot be inalienable, because history is filled with examples of people who never had rights in the first place, or had them taken away. They cannot be God-given, because the world's religions widely disagree on what rights are; even Judeo-Christianity allowed slavery for thousands of years, whereas today it doesn't. Rights cannot be self-evident, because slavery was viewed as natural by Aristotle and defended by the Church as such until the 19th century. The fact that rights have changed so much throughout history demonstrates that they are social constructs. Liberals believe that advances in moral philosophy and science are responsible for our improving concept of rights.

---

Liberals do not believe that people are incompetent.
We understand that there are larger tasks than any single person can handle by themselves.

Liberals are concerned with victimization.
We know from experience that some of us will make use of any advantage no matter what the cost to others so long as it is legal. We tend to support making forms of victimization illegal.

Liberals are pro-change, conservatives are anti-change.
Liberals want to make a better world. Conservatives argue that things aren't that bad and would be better if we could get back to "the good old days".

Some liberals are rude. Others are not.
Much like everyone else.

Liberals oppose racism. So do conservatives.
I myself am willing to admit that I have racist prejudices that got stuck in my head while growing up. I try to recognize and eliminate them but it's not easy.

Liberals do not believe that minorities are dumb.
We know that minorities are overrepresented in the underclass. We believe minorities need a step up because all too many white folks won't give them a fair chance. Racism continues to be ingrained in America. The Census shows that we are more segregated today than we were a decade ago.
-

One thing I do agree with you on is that many liberals are too hysterical about religious issues. I don't share the panic, though I am unreligious. I would rather see the majority have more power to shove their agenda through Congress. Let Bush push his religious program. But when someone else is elected let them have the same power to enact a different program. I'd like to get rid of the delaying tactics and the gridlock it enforces. Let's elect a government and entrust it with the power to fulfill it's promises.

-----
Just my 2sense

Man, you would make such a good politician..

I wasn't talking about physically (though I am relaxed), I was talking mentally. But, to the point.. If you want forgiveness in the Catholic state of mind, then it's all about forgiveness. Okay. But what does that have to do with enacting laws focused on religion-based morality?

Some people aren't Catholic, and wouldn't pray for forgiveness to a god they don't believe in. John Ashcroft are at a loss on how to handle this situation. That shows intellect on Ashcroft's part. He's a POLITICIAN that is trying to figure out ways to force his religion onto people.

File that under "People are incompitant." Oh, if you didn't know, John is quite the conservative.

arse.

Me?

Personnally, I think the South should've won the war of northern aggression, I think the world would be a better place for it. By the way, is correct spelling a lost art?

Personally, yes

Slavery is immoral. Now the shay whiskey reblion succeding would have been interesting.

Slavery is immoral, but paying a vietnamese kid 5 cents an hour to make your nike shoes is ok.