AOL SUCKS
netZERO cost 9.95
How would one start thier own personal ISP? I doesn't need to handle a million customers, just a few friends at most. I don't care what it might cost, I probly won't be able to do it anyway, but it would be nice to have an option.

you need an internet connection, and lines out for your friends to connect to

How do get an internet connection? is it just a phone line? I apologize for being a moron

You already have a connection if you are posting on totse...

Then I already have everything I need...

Now what the hell do I do?

well if you're trying to let them dial in, you're going to need multiple phone lines

you need deicated fibre lines such as a t1. you need mucho hardware and networking expertise and you need to know your shit in security. if you do start it let me know so i can be the first on my block to "own" an isp.

if you have to ask then you shouldnt be doing it!

can't you have a shitty slow, insecure, server with minimal equiptment?

Yeah, Scorched has it--try the AOL approach.

To do anything right, you need a high-bandwidth digital line (DS3, etc.), and a direct connection to one of the major backbones. Something like MCI's UUNET in the U.S. Then you need kickass routers, firewalls, spiffy authentication stuff, and thousands of dollars worth of other hardware that makes geeks wet.

hell, no, not another ISP that floods my postbox with discs ...

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Originally posted by ThetaReactor:
To do anything right, you need a high-bandwidth digital line (DS3, etc.), and a direct connection to one of the major backbones. Something like MCI's UUNET in the U.S. Then you need kickass routers, firewalls, spiffy authentication stuff, and thousands of dollars worth of other hardware that makes geeks wet.

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actaully there are quite a few isps poping up in rural area that use nothing more than a T1 or T3. they provide service via a wireless network interface. the whole system can be set up for under 40 grand which is cheap by isp standards.

ISP? Ask my friend Nick. He's created and ISP which costs absolutley fuk all, apart from electricity. He had a bit o help from some guy in lester (England) and he helped nick create the BIGGEST MOTHER FUKING firewall I have ever seen. He then proceed to try and hack it to see if it wass possible- he did it, but let off all the traps he put in it- 20 viruses, a worm, and a program for crashing you system, and any networked to it. Engenius, and I suggest u do the same- Hackers generaly try to hack the smaller prey- I'm on Demon internet, a small British ISP , devoted to people mostly in Devon. It goes down evey 4-6 days or so due to virus, hack, or worm problems. It's bloody fast though, but u need patience when they're trying to get rid of the hackers.

Few words of advice- If your a newbie, don't even think about it. If you can't network two PC'S together properly like me, then stay with AOL.

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Originally posted by neville122333:
stay with AOL.

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That's really bad advice.

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He's created and ISP which costs absolutley fuk all, apart from electricity.

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Since when has networking equipment been free? Who do I call? Tony Blair? Oh yeah, and free bandwidth/a dedicated line, how long has that been free for?

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he helped nick create the BIGGEST MOTHER FUKING firewall I have ever seen.

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The effectiveness of a firewall is not measured by how BIG it is, its measured by how well it keeps intruders out. Infact, the more rules a firewall has, the slower it will be. An effective ruleset is one that is small yet powerful enough to balance authorized and unauthorized traffic. Firewalls aren't the end-all-be-all of network security. And I've never seen a firewall, in which hemisphere do you have to be to see one of those?

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and a program for crashing you system, and any networked to it.

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So... if you ran that program against my PC which is attached to the INTERNET, then the internet goes down? Unfortunately not.

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Engenius

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Ingenious.

what would be the cheapest, barebones way to start an ISP? I probely won't be able to do it (yet), but I can't be the only one who has wondered. Any sites that sell old networking equipment? What if security wasn't an issue? what if the ISP was just for one person?

A few more questions. My basic understanding of how the internet works is my comp calls AOL, AOL calls website. Why can't I just call the site? I've used telnet to connect to a site for about 5 secs as the html loaded. Maby what I am asking about is a way to go online for free. but then, if you could get one comp on, couldn't other comps get on through a network or with a router?

I apologize for all the questions, if you people know of sites that would help educate me please post them. I want to learn, but don't know where to go.

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Any sites that sell old networking equipment?

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ebay.com might be your best choice, but even old stuff is not cheap.

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What if security wasn't an issue?

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Security is always an issue, even if it is a minor one.

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what if the ISP was just for one person?

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That does not compute. ISP stands for Internet Service Provider. If all you need is 1 connection, just get any old internet account. And besides to become an ISP you need some kind of internet access that will either come from your local telco or UUNET/WorldCom anyways.

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Maby what I am asking about is a way to go online for free.

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AOL does not get online for free. They either lease a connection to UUNET or some other major backbone owned by another supercorp like WorldCom, and that costs a bitchload.

Telnet has nothing to do with the direction or redirection of any connection.

What you are asking is totally unfeasible for yourself at this time. Unless you have load and loads of money to blow on equipment, dedicated line & infrastruture to your clients, along with knowledgable people to set this up, it won't happen anytime soon.

My question about itis this: who owns the final backbones that carry the net? Do they charge each other for connections to each other?

What if I was, say, out in nevada, and there just happened to be a huge fibre optic backbone going to LA running thru my backyard.

Could I just patch into it and get a free OC-3 connection? (not counting equipment of course.)

I mean, how is my cable modem different from what my ISP has in a basic sense? Is it jus tthe contract that keeps my from running an ISP to my neighborhood?

http://www.dieselsweeties.com/archive.php?s=71

This is starting to piss me off. the only way to get online is either by paying some isp monthly, or by starting your own, which would cost thousands?
Does anyone know the name or site of the organization that oversees the internet? You know, the people that you register domain names to. They might have more information.

InterNIC runs .com .org .net .biz .info if that is what you are talkning about. They wont have much info other than the fact that they are also the ones that sell IP address blocks which are incredibly scarce right now anyways... IPv6 is in the near future.

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My question about itis this: who owns the final backbones that carry the net?

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Basically, its just the supercorps like WorldCom. There are a few others. WorldCom backbones carry 30%-40% of the worlds business traffic.

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Could I just patch into it and get a free OC-3 connection? (not counting equipment of course.)

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No, you would need to know what IP adddresses are in use, mostlikely IP unnumbered or VSLM, and you would need to know how to setup exterior routing protocols... and on top of that, you would need to know how to make this patch into the line totally unoticable which is almost impossible because routing tables would change on all other connected routers. And the physical patch into the line would be hard as im sure most people here dont know how to splice fiber (is this even possible? i dont know).

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I mean, how is my cable modem different from what my ISP has in a basic sense? Is it jus tthe contract that keeps my from running an ISP to my neighborhood?

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You are just futher down the chain then your ISP. It's like a large tree shape extending down with then end users at the bottom and the supercorps running the backbones at the top.

Yes, fiber gets spliced every day.

Basically what it seems to come down too is your going to have to be a biatch to a mega corp if you wanna connect to any of the main server banks that host most of the information on the "internet". There are what approximately 4 of those server banks located in the USA? Also I have had a dream of owning my own global communications satelite network for quite some time just thought Id mention it :-D. If you want to avoid the coorperations and such start laying cable and make your own infrastructure but to connect back out from what you have laid your gonna have to pay someone just like even the mega corps have to pay each other...

I have been thinking of this as well. Basically my only concern is monthly payments. Do telcos charge monthly for their ds3 lines or T1 lines etc. . ? Or is it just a one time charge to install the line? As far as hardware goes, that is no problem whatsoever, I have an old 300mhZ system running linux as my firewall, and a 8-port switch. Except for a fiber compatable component and perhaps a gigabit networking card total cost is around $300. Gigabit NIC have come down considerably, you could find one for $50 easy. Not too sure about fiber compatable switch/hub, that will definately be most expensive piece of equipment aside from the fiber line itself. The only thing you should have to worry about is the telco. . . they like to keep all the bandwidth to themselves. . .

Unfortunately, your 300Mhz machine would not be able to route all the data that can come flying down a fiber line. The PC would be a massive bottleneck.

acutally its 450, i forgot i upgraded it for 15 bucks, and i think it could easily route all that data. Its a fairly simple firewall, and not necessarily designed to keep other computers safe, but to keep itself safe. I uncapped my cable modem and had a T3 connection for a while, but then the company caught me and slapped my wrist. During that time there was no bottleneck whatsoever, each of my 8 computers had no problem with the internet, the only bottleneck was the Ethernet card on the server, so i switched to 2 NIC's, one for internal one just for the cable modem, this helped alot. Linux is great at turnin a shity comp into something usefull, i have no doubt that my 450 mhz machine, with 32 megs of ram could easily route all the data comming through a fiber channel, the only bottle neck as i already said would be the NIC, which is why i mentioned getting a gigabit. . . Long live LINUX!

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I uncapped my cable modem and had a T3 connection for a while, but then the company caught me and slapped my wrist.

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That just proves you don't know what you are talking about. A cable connection and a T3 are hightly different connections, regardless of similar bandwidths. T3 connections run over twisted pair using AMI (Alternative Mark Inversion) coding where Cable runs over coax using CDMA (Collision Detection Multiple Access) encoding. Besides all that, T3's are multiplexed differently than cable.

If you think your 450 could route all the data running down a major backbone then your are not looking at the whole picture. Another note. Even if you upgrade to gigabit NIC, your PCI bus is slower than fiber at full burst. More data than just that of 8 computers is running down a backbone.

Cisco 12000 series routers (made for ISPs and other large corps) are designed for this kind of load and costs a shitload. If a 450Mhz 32Mb RAM PC could route all that data then why would ANYONE bother spending the money on a high power router.

I have a linux router myself for my cable connection. Its a 120Mhz CYRIX 20Mb RAM and it works just great for my 4 computers. Even though its a good system, I know it wont route data for even 100 computers very effectively.

And I do agree, LINUX ROCKS.

dude if you think that 450 mhz piece of crap is going to route shit then your in dream land. it takes all the power of a dual sparc 10 box to handle a single full gigabit NIC. and if you think you can even get a DS3 at your house then i think you have watched too much swordfish. youll be lucky if they would install a t3 in your home, let alone if you could afford it. and no they are not one time charges, you pay out the ass every month. this sort of ignorance just makes me incredibly mad. you need to do some serious reading

i did do reading, but mostly the telco's don't post their rates anywhere. . . And i know that the 450 can't handle all the data from a fiber, im just saying its probably beter to go with a 450 mhz than spend a couple thousand for a small performance boost. Of course an uncapped cable modem isn't a T3 i was just drawing a bandwidth comparison, actually it was around 100kbytes up 2000kbytes down. . .kinda makes its own catagory. . .
edit: haven't seen the movie swordfish. . . and this is about starting an ISP, not having a ds3 all to yourself. . .

[This message has been edited by ookabooka (edited 09-02-2002).]

Yup. See, most cable modems have a theoretical max bandwidth of about 10Mb/s. Some claim 30Mb/s. T3's run at over 43Mb/s. They also cost a few thousand bucks a month. They're quite a bit more bang for the buck than a single T1, though. Twenty-eight times the speed for just a few times the price...

no swordfish is a hacking/action movie and a quite good one at that. i just thought that you had seen the way that john travoltas character had a DS3 in his house and assumed anyone could do the same. i suppose if you lived cloe enough to UUNET in cali it would be possible but there is zero chance the telco would install the line for you and very little chance of them allowing you to get service.


anyway those thousands would yield a momentous performance gain over a 450mhz computer. as theta said a T3 is incredibly expensive and not worth the hassle. and virtually no individual home user could afford nor could they get the service of a DS3 line. if your staying with cable then the 450 is plenty good but if you decide to go fibre then your going to need some dedicated cisco gear or at least a fast sparc box

Now common... I feel to say that its "impossible" for a home user to get a ds3 line to their house is a lil outrageous... granted its not bloody likely but common $$$ talks if you can pay enough and prove to the company's you'v got the funds to keep paying for that service for years into the future.....

So then, If I went out and bought some top quality equiment to handle the bandwidth of a backbone, and said backbone ran through my backyard, how much would worldcom charge me to connect? Does WorldCom pay the other big corps to connect to their networks?

I don't know how much you would have to pay worldcom, probably all depending on your bandwidth usage.

As for WorldCom and other major backbone owning companies, they setup mutual trade agreements based on average bandwidth usage. The company that sees most of the worlds traffic percentage wise, will be compensated... HOWEVER: I really don't know if thats the case, but I liked the ranting aspect.

Anyways, I do believe that these companies are not just shifting funds, there has to be at least some level of mutual agreement.

Agreed.

I wonder what type of connection Bill Gates has wired up at his house.

First, you rent out this shit hot line, unless of course you want to run the cable across your country by yourself. Don't (I repeat don't!) settle for a T1, set your sights bigger: OC-3's, OC-192's or the big momma OC-768 (20Gbps). Then you set up your dial-up server and your RADIUS server (that's the authentication server) and you bring your customers and say 'check out my bitchin' shit, it's whack' or whatever those kinda people say today. If all else fails or confuses you, check this link:
http://www.anime.net/linuxisp/Linux-ISP-HOWTO.html

Word to your parent/guardian.

grasshopa

Dude, an OC-768 would feed phones to a whole fucking metropolitan area...

I don't care I want one!

can anyone tell me more about cisco? a friend i know is studying it in college and seems excited about it though he isnt that terribly computer literate he has got me wondering abot it.
thanks

www.cisco.com

they hold about 80%-85% of the market share for routers and switches. there is a lot that one could say about cisco so its better that you just learn the basic stuff first and then actually ask a more specific question.

hmm that is cisco systems inc,
what i am looking for is a course done at college in networking?
comes as part of most HNC/HND computing courses i believe.

cisco.netacad.net

im working towards the CCNP right now.