i would like to keep this topic as serious as possible. i was wondering if anyone here has ever had any sort of transplant or a replacement of some sort.

for example: i got bone cancer 3 years ago (i was 13 i think, yeah i was) and had to have my knee replaced. they didn't cut it off, they just took it out and put a titanuim/cobalt/steel alloy knee joint in there and closed it up. i am debating wheter or not to have it removed and have my leg... lets say, "drastically shortened" only because of the effects that i have to live with for the rest of my life.

just lookin for some people like me. PLEASE feel free to tell me that i am full of shit. i dont need to prove myself, i would just like some honest answers.

cheers

~Bar room hero

What "effects" are you mumbling about?

If you're seriously contemplating getting your lower leg cut off because of these effects (unless it's something like blackouts while you're driving or chronic diarrhea) then you're full of shit.
Unless you replaced it with a wooden peg leg. That would be cool.

this is the short version z3m. also to answer your question evil, this will basically reveal the method to my madness.

well, basically, the scar (which is about 18 inches long and is almost as long as my leg itself) is made of what is called, hence the name, scar tissue. it dosen't only lie on the top. Scince they had to cut actual bone, and tendon (not to mention nerves) the scar tissue grew there too. now it keeps the knee from bending. i can get 20 degrees of bend on that damn thing, and that is with intese physical therapy. they said, they couldn't go any further because the pegs that fit into my shin and my femur would fracture the surrounding bone due to the pressure exerted upon the leg to bend and the place on the bone that the pegs are putting the most pressure. in such a case, my leg would either collapse at the upper shin, or the upper femur (thigh). i will probobly have to get it replaced in about 7 years due to the nature of machinnes falling apart through use. i wouldn't be able to play any contact sports or run(obviously) even if i could have gotten full range of motion. i was starting midfielder on my school's soccer team. the midfleider's job is to run. thats what i did. i enjoyed it. so much that i would be an asshole at practice that the coach would make me run laps the entire time.

now, imagine for a second, that your "liberty" in this country was taken away. having once tasted freedom, one would die if only to achieve it again even just for a second. any loss is nessacary (sp?) to achieve that goal, at least to the person striving for it. now, think how magnified that desire would be after 3 and a half years. it would no longer be a desire, but a need.

I am that person in question. Running is my freedom. it couldn't be attained even if i could have full range of motion in my leg.
the only way i could possibly be able to run, is with a graphite prosthetic leg. people can sprint on those. my quality of life would be greatly enhanced. i would be able to do things "normal" people would be able to do, with only minimal drawbacks.

it is NOT because all i want to do is run. The other effects that i have to deal with as of now (and for the rest of my life if i never do anything about it) is that i can't drive, because i can't fit in the driver's seat (due to the orientation of my leg in relation to the space of the leg room available). i have lymph fluid problems. during the surgery, they had to cut lymph vessels and lymph nodes in my leg. so now i have swelling in the left foot and lower portion of that leg. that is easily (but painfully) remedied, and it is a daily thing that is a pain in the ass. i knew that there were some other things, but i forgot them. oh well. that is basicaly it.

it is only after we have lost something, that we really recognize it's actual worth.

~bar room hero.

[This message has been edited by Bar room hero (edited 07-24-2000).]

ECHO ECHo ECho Echo echo...

Your sugeon must have fucked up if you only got back ~15% of function. I can't see how replacing it would do anything besides create more scarring.

On the other hand I'm dog sitting this stupid dog that won't fucking listen to me. It begs whenever I eat something and I refuses to eat it's food. I guess it'll just starve.

my plan is not to get it replaced. i want the thing gone. i would rather have no leg than have to deal with this. but my folks are pushing for more surgery to get the scar tissue removed (that is exactly what i said to them). what they think they will do, is that when they go in there, they are going to remove the scar tissue, bend the knee, close me up, and then put me on some machine that flexes and straightens my knee right after surgery.

the whole reason that my leg dosen't bend is because after my 1rst large surgery, they had to cut through so much shit that i needed, like nerves, blood vessels, and lymph vessels (not to mention nodes) that my leg actually started to die in certain spots through lack of circulation. which they would actually have to cut even more of to carry out the operation that my folks want me to get, the one to remove the scar. oh my god... you have no idea what it feels like to be restrained because the shivers you get are classified as low level siezures. all the while, you are watching your left leg turn black and die exponentially each day. but because of this, i couldn't be put on the bending machine mentioned earlier because my skin would literally flake off. i had no hope of survival if this had kept progressing. so they decided to give me a skin graft. that was one of the most painful experiances of my life. especially scince the donor site on my ass (where they took the skin from).

now that i had a skin graft, my leg had a decent hope of survival, but if it got infected, i would have to get my entire leg taken off. and saying that to a kid who has just been taken off of chemo (which destroys your resistance to any sort of infection or sickness for a short time) was pretty messed up. but even through the skin graft, i still couldn't be put on that machine because the skin graft would tear when my leg bent.

so, scince i was never put on that machine due to all of the problems that occurred, when the leg healed, it also becamed scarred down so much that i could only bend it a small fraction of my "desired range of motion".

he didn't screw it up, it was out of everyones hands.

If I was in your position I'd want to cut my losses(pardon the pun) and get it removed. The art of prosthesis has made huge strides(oops another pun) in the past 30 years.

yer a true bastard man...

FINALLY!!! someone who agree's with me...

oh don't worry about the puns... my folks are much worse. from them i have heard, lemme see, shake a leg, break a leg, oh... and my favorite: you don't have a leg to stand on.

thanx for seein things from my perspective

~bar room hero

[This message has been edited by Bar room hero (edited 08-05-2000).]

hmm, now back to my origional question, has anyone ever had a transplant or anything of the sort?

hell with it.

has anyone had surgery??

[This message has been edited by Bar room hero (edited 08-05-2000).]

Hmm, when I had my wisdom teeth removed, they called it "dental surgery"

Yeah man, if more surgery isn't going to help much, then I would get the prosthesis. I've seen those things before, the ones they use for running, and they're really top quality. Eventually, the prosthetic devices will become better than actual legs. They actually have gasoline powered boots that allow sprinting to 25mph; that tech in a prosthesis could restore full functionality for running. But of course I don't know enough about your specific situation to make an educated decision.

BTW, gas boots: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_820000/820398.stm

nah, that wont work. i gotta have both my legs for that. hehe. i don't think it would be a god idea to just use one of those things either... damn. ehehhe might knock my hip outta joint with one step

I agree you know, if your quality of life would be better without the leg and with the prosthesis, you should do it. I know how much of a problem scar tissue can be for people.

I've never had surgery, but my father has, which is why to this day any movie where people get digits chopped off freaks me out.

Happened when I was 12 or 13, he was working on a machine (he was maintenance for a concrete building blocks factory) that had had concrete dust and rain combine to make concrete, clearing it out and checking it worked still. While he was doing that, someone turned on the machine.

Mashed fingers..
He had to have the ring finger of his right hand removed below the lower knuckle, because it was so badly damaged. And the middle finger was split down the middle. To this day he has 2 fingernails on that finger, because the nail bed was split. So I have this vague *ugh* feeling about things like that to this day (hey I was pretty young)

thank you. there is also an alternate surgery that they can go in my leg, and loosen up all of the scar tissue. the only thing that will do is make me able to bend my leg. it won't give me any more possibilities for physical activity (besides Casually riding a bike or casual skating which i am not too fond of anyway). my folks (my mom mainly. my dad doesn't talk usually) just keep pushing me to do that operation mentioned above. i am on the edge of exploding into a colourful barrage of swear words and hostility. i can't wait till i am outta the house and i can play my cello in the subway and beg for food like a normal college student...

suziegirl,

i hear ya. i am completely jaded as far as gruesomness goes. i can tell hospital stories that make Nam veterans sick and pale. when i had my operation done, (i had some complications so i had to do one aday for the next four days) i was a bag of nerves. but i my way of dealing with anxiety is that i make it so bad that i basically become a vegetable for the next 30 minutes. i watched braveheart right before my surgery. i watched it again afterwards. i kinda smirked every time someone's leg got taken off, because i know that they didn't have to go to a hospital and piss a month of their life away being literally bored shitless (i could have gone into ceptic shock) and begging for morhpine every ten minutes. the pain was searing even with an epidural. i couldn't move my body below my hips, and yet it was excruciating (sp?) to the point that i made my gums bleed from clenching my teeth too hard. hmmm i think i just told one of my nasty stories.... damn. im sorry... ill shut up now.

~bar room hero

[This message has been edited by Bar room hero (edited 08-05-2000).]

I didn't mean you should put one of those gasoline boots on unmodified, only that the same technology could be used to design a better prosthesis.

oooooh!!! hahhaa. im dumb

If it was my leg I'd demand to have what I want done to it.

Why does your mom want you to go through this? Does she just want you too keep your leg even though it doesn't work?

its not a leg that dosen't work, it could work just fine if i had that operation (to get the scar removed and then be put on that machine immediately) which is what she wants. but i would still never be able to run. that is what i want to do. i can't explain it any other way... 3 and a hafl years with no running. no wind in my face except on a erm... windy day...

Maybe you should just point her in this direction and let her read all this..

I know how you feel, at least I think I do.

The reason I'm so paranoid about losing fingers etc, is that I'm a musician. Piano players dont' do too good with missing fingers, neither do violinists or horn players. If I was in a situation where I could no longer play any of those instruments, it's quite possible I'd go crazy, so since running is to you as music is to me, I totally understand. Well as much as someone can understand without all the morphine and pain and stuff like that..

Suzie, so you're six feet tall, you're ex-british, you play piano, violin, etc AND you have tits? I am childishly in love, people, just bury me here to commemorate the most violating of all feelings, the vile and eager happiness of everlasting youth that has clawed it's way to my heart with that one and only name on my blood-red lips...suzie....tho shall f'ever be in my dreams, for all I see is t' blue of thy eyes in the haven of north america...

If they're not blue, it's ok, just tell me later, in the morning...

[This message has been edited by sckbch (edited 08-04-2000).]

Hey, im a cellist. i need my fingers too...

lol. it gets better, my eyes really are blue. I'm not blond, but I am fair skinned and haired.

yes, I'm six feet tall, have breasts and all other usual womanly accompaniments, half a degree in physics, various musical and artistic talents, and I can drink better than any girl I've ever met.. and better than many guys.

oh, yes, I also have a boyfriend.. sorry

all this display of eccentric fervor is quite amuzing, but the topic has strayed from hospitals, death, and gore, to an episode of "As the world turns." please, lets try and keep this one about the topic...

Not possible.
It's a metaphysical requirement that no topic at totse ever stays on topic. You've done well for it to go this far without being abducted

well, my topic was written while i was incorporating pataphysics!!! HAAAA!!!

metaphysics means basically : what is beyond physics.

Pataphysics is essentially: beyond what is beyond physics...

mwahahhahaha!!!!

[This message has been edited by Bar room hero (edited 08-05-2000).]

Kinda like postmodernism and beyond post modernism?

more of a post post modernism

[This message has been edited by Bar room hero (edited 08-05-2000).]

Ok then, that deserves a post back on topic, because so few people know what the hell you are talking about when you talk about postmodernism and post postmodernism.

I've never had surgery, but I've been in hospital a few times, and if theres one piece of advice I want to leave the world with, is refuse to ever let a doctor take your blood. Make them go get a nurse to do it.
I have really really hard to see veins, you see. It takes a really experienced person to draw blood from me the first time around. Without doubt, doctors are the worst. I once had one stick a needle in my arm, and then dig around inside my arm trying to find the vein for like 5 minutes. I've been known to come out of blood tests looking like a drug user with a 6 inch bruise along my arm... I'm not squeamish about needles, or anything like that. Needles don't freak me out like they do some people (aforementioned father is a diabetic, so when you see someone stick a needle in themselves every day twice a day, you really aren't bothered by them at all), but still, nurses take blood more often than doctors do, so never let the doc do it. It'll be over faster and less painfully if you make them get the nurse.

YAY!!!! you rule

yeah i realized that about a week into my treatment. i don't even want nurses to do it. shit... i would even demand a "Clin 1" (their job is to take blood...). i had a LOT of anger when i was on treatment. i think i still do... but anyway, i played the wimp and "needed" to have a nurse (one that i didn't like at all) hold my hand. due to my cello playing, i have extremely strong hands. i enjoyed crushing their latex covered fingers almost as much as i did going home. one walked away with a HUGE bruise. all four of her fingers on one hand were dark purple. i must have destroyed a vein or something... i dunno...

Any amputation will reduce your expected life span by about 5 years.

Oh, and Suz, don't be so sure all nurses can find veins. Once I went in for a blood test, and redecorated the office into something that could only be described as a gothic horror motif. She was a real dumbfuck, she stabbed me in the muscle about four times, then when she started to suck the blood, it was only half in and on an angle so blood poured everywhere, then she managed to expel the blood from the syringe all over the walls. Man she was a fucking dumb bitch. I can't believe she passed the nursing test. Maybe she was a doctor pretending to be a nurse or something.

Well, ideally you want a haemotologist, but failing that, a nurse is way better than a doctor.

My college nurse was the one who gave me the 6inch bruise along my arm..

But the doctor was still worse.

Barroom, you're evil. Be my friend..

yeah, the people in the oncology unit were really good drawing blood... the clinic is also mixed with the hematology clinic. what was REALLY scary, is that in washington DC, where i got my big operation done, all of the blood drawing people were arabs... i have no problem with arabs, believe me, its onlt that they are working in an american hospital and they don't know english, or the english that they know is remidial. you have not known fear until an arabian guy jerks open your door at 4:00 AM in the morning gibbering in his native tongue that he wants to draw blood. in english it sounds as if he is going to kill you and fire his uzi into the cieling screaming: for alah!!! (no offence to any musilms or arabs here...) my biggest veins are in my hand. i prefer a needle in my hand than my arm. try telling that to someone who doens't speak english well. oh my goodness...

**blush** suzi wants to be my friend... heee

You can't see mine in either my hand or my arm.

I can see how scary that would be, yes.

oh and trippy,

i find it quite amusing that you of all people would be commenting about something that shortens your life span. don't drugs do that too? but anyway, thanx for the objective information.

I have lots of veins.

Hero: I've had minor surgery before on my knee. I have bad knees from being a little too roughneck when I was a teenager. Nothing that can compare to your troubles however, I am sorry for your suffering. I would advise you to have the operation that your parent's request. People have recovered from injuries in ways that no doctors could predict or even would say is possible. You say the doctor's feel that you could walk after this operation? that speaks of a great deal of latent potential to me. If you want soemthing bad enough, and I feel you do, it is amazing what you can push yourself to do. I feel that the mind has a potential that can far out pace the body, but when you find a certain symmetry with them you can push the body much farther than one would expect look to Qui Gong masters who brake spears by pushing the tips against their skin or yoga masters who pull their own innards from their body through the rectum to clean them before placing them back inside. Shaolin monks in Tibet practise an exercise where they sit in an unheated room (damn cold in a Tibetan monastary) and drape their unclothed shoulders in a wet sheet. Then they must dry it. This was recorded by National Geographic. You could actually see steam rising from the bodies of some of the monks. They recorded temperatures as high as 117 degrees if I'm not mistaken. Any human with a fever that high would be dead. They can do things others would not belive possible. Why can't you. Patience and discipline are the key. I suggest you have the operation and as soon as your rehabilitation allows find yourself a good Tai Chi teacher. That would be a good start to developing focus and discipline, and allow you to explore your potential a great deal more. Who knows where you could go from there. If you reach a point where you feel you must give up the struggle to remain whole then you can have the amputation at a later date when you are not under your parents control and better able to judge what the best decision is after your journey. Just my two bits.

thanks for the information eldritch. i'll keep that in mind. you are quite correct, i saw that same documentary. one can learn a ton about themselves if they go through something that can easily kill them.
for instance i have learned that i have a VERY high tolerance for pain. not that i don't feel the pain, or that i clench my teeth and brave through it (i triend that, i made my gumms bleed). but i can tune it out and it goes from a screaming agony, to pin prick. i can sleep through things that used to make me writhe in pain.

I think that men have to learn upping their pain tolerance, while women are kind of born with it. Certainly by the time you get to puberty, women experience severe pain on a monthly basis that would probably have a lot of men groaning in their beds... Boy am I glad I don't get stomach cramps or any of that crap any more. You definitely do learn to tune it out though.. Otherwise you can't do anything at all.

Weed taught be how to turn off my pain responces.

Well, it's more focusing on the pain rather than ignoring it. Works fine.

The moral is you should smoke more weed.

I'm crazy sleepy.

nah, i'd rather not. i try to abstain from things that destroy my body.

Whoah! You'd better run from that CRT then!

CRT? Cathode Ray Tube?????

[This message has been edited by Bar room hero (edited 08-14-2000).]

*desperately attempts to keep this topic alive*

i hate to be going in the other direction but ive spent too much time in the hospital bed...i dont mind it...ask for demerol...its better than morphine and they give it out more freely....surgery sounds like a better alternative just because of the fact that although the leg would seem better off gone its still waking up and never having that leg again....surgery isnt all that fun...specially like shattering the lower half of your tibia and having it replaced now having half your bone made of metal...its a cool story but i would reccomend it...but its nice to be able to tell the weather....

anyway...i think the surgery might be better just because you could always get the leg later....and vice versa aint possible....

oh and bass players need fingers too

el privo

as per request, Bar Room's pic, I made it a lil smaller though to cut down load time..

(He's the one in camo)

[This message has been edited by Suziegirl (edited 09-18-2000).]

*makes witty remark*

hmm. oh well. too bad ya can't see my face clearly. i guess that's the idea.... my legs aren't usually detached from my body.

thanx suzie!

damn.. dunno why its doing that.. the pic I uploaded was totally fine.. I'll try again later

I've had my left nut removed(and if a guy ever says that he'd give a left nut for this-or-that, he's a lying bastard), i have a dacron artery in my right shoulder, and my right shoulder blade was broken into 5 pieces. The doctors wanted to cut my right arm off, because it black from the blood being cut off, but i told'em i could still hit'em real hard with my left. they told me that if i didn't get gangrene, i'd probably never be able to use it. I could eat with it, before i left the hos[ital. Have patience.

------------------
j lawson

I just had a thought, if they can do arm transplants, it's only a matter of time before they can do leg transplants.

i wish.

man, if they could clone my right leg, but turn the anatomy around and make it like a left leg, i would be able to do some crazy shit. my right leg has compensated to the extreme. i can leg press 140 lbs easily. with my right leg only. i am not kidding. that is 90 percent of my body weight. one leg. if i had two... *whistles* that'd would be nuckin futz

if they could do that both your legs would be crazy strong
when i was 17 i had both legs shatterd from the knees down,(i also crushed my right wrist and forearn)and when they healde they were/are all stronger then the ever where.
i think once you put something in your body other then bone.you mind as well just cut it off and start over.you would probably be better off with the pros limb.the arthritis is what kills you.i bet you can feel the rain and what not???

no kiddin


MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!

Wow.... this hasn't been posted in for forever.

its nearing time to decide to get that operation. the doctor refused to even consider amputation like i had described before. i am still not ready to get the operation. things are pretty confusing... hmm. now that my choices are narrowed down to two... what do you guys think? do i get the operation and have my leg bendable (somewhat) or not. i am content with not, but some say that life would be easier with it done...

now that its a month later.......

This had always been one of those posts I though outdated me... sorry. I had no idea what it was about. I gather your still like you were when you started this post. No development towards more maneuverability. My father bent his knee the opposite way when skiing a couple years ago, he had surgery (god, nothing compared to what you described)(funniest thing though, he got the whole thing taped and he has the tape of them opening his leg and putting in pins... gives me shivers) he got pins, and was in one of those machines that keeps your legs moving constantly, for a week or two. So his leg wouldn't, like, die. He still skies, but wears a brace 'cause his legs still so weak... but that�s my closest, half, not even experience to what you've gone through. Endured. Man I felt bad when you talked about the shivers so bad they were considered convulsions. Did you actually have chemotherapy or just strait out operated and cut anything cancerous away? I hear chemotherapy isn't only painful but does you in psychologically. We seem to live in a time were it is inevitable that you will get cancer at some point in your life, and it's one of the things that scares me the most. You mentioned that common saying about not realizing how great things are in life until you lose them... and that�s to true. I have my opinion on what I would do if I was you. But before I go on I'd also like to say when it comes down to it, your choice should be for what you feel deepest about. People have said that, but, like, when it's all over, life you know, would you like to look back and say I did this and it worked out okay, or I did this I lived my life and it feels at least half for filled. What we also don't seem to realize is we only live once. One chance. (excluding other beliefs). Anyway, I wouldn�t think twice and go for the surgery your parents seem to be pushing, 'cause like some one said before the mind can contradict everything, and exceed all beliefs. Their just seems to be so many more chances... and with technology doing so much these day, don't you think they will soon develop some alternative to the metal joint you have ... which would let you run, with your own leg. Do you walk on your own strength or use crutches? I also wouldn�t enjoy the feeling of losing my whole leg. Do you live in America? I gather you do, this whole disaster must have cost your family a fortune. As well as these surgeries you�re contemplating. I hope thinks go your way. I take running for granted, even though I don�t see the beauty in it that you do. I hope that day comes.

yep. it costed us a quarter of a million bucks.

much more than my house.

If I was in your position, I'd have it lopped off. If your doctor won't do it, find one who will.

They have these deisel boots now... You could have something like that installed.

the gas boots? lol yeah. that would be kinda funny too.... hear a Brrrmmmmmmmmmmbmbmmbmbm down the hall and then a *step.. CLANK... step....... CLANK...........step......CLANK.....stepCLANKstepCLANKstepCLANKstepCLANK and so on*

...may I ask how you got even... money wise? I'm sort of doubting you had much help from insurance... you live in the states right?

we still aren't even. the insurance company did jack shit. they suck.

yeah, we live in virginia beach. right next to norfolk. and unfortuneatly we had to drive all the way to washington D.C. to get the surgery and treatment. for the chemo, we just went to norfolk. but for the big operation, we had to go to DC. it sucked.