ok so i had an argument with a friend about 9-11 being a conspiracy, plotted by bin ladens cohorts and our man in charge. i generally stay in the music boards, but thought this was interesting, and wanted some insight on it.

DrLove847: im starting to think 9-11 was a conspiracy
AngrAndTheTruth: How do you figure?
DrLove847: i think it was planned by our govt to prepare us for war
DrLove847: and our oil interests in central asia
DrLove847: well the caspian sea
DrLove847: its been done before
AngrAndTheTruth: That's impossible to believe.
DrLove847: no its not govts have done this before
AngrAndTheTruth: no government (not even ours) would slam planes into 3 major national landmarks
AngrAndTheTruth: example?
DrLove847: adolf hitler
DrLove847: blew up his reichstag
DrLove847: peral harbor
DrLove847: the northwoods documents
AngrAndTheTruth: Pearl harbor wasnt planned out
AngrAndTheTruth: it was allowed to happen
AngrAndTheTruth: we didnt ask japan to nuke us
AngrAndTheTruth: we just let it go
AngrAndTheTruth: i am totally supportive of the idea that bush knew.
AngrAndTheTruth: but not that he planned it out.
DrLove847: i think he had a big role in it
DrLove847: cheney used to be a millionaire oil tycoon
DrLove847: and he was put in charge of it
AngrAndTheTruth: In charge of what
DrLove847: oil
DrLove847: but the biggest example of the us attacking its own citizens is the northwoods documents
AngrAndTheTruth: what is that
DrLove847: it was made a confirmed document a few years back
AngrAndTheTruth: and
AngrAndTheTruth: stating..
DrLove847: innocent civilians were to be shot on the streets and they were going to blow up boats in guatanomo bay or however u spell it, along with other terroristic ideas
DrLove847: all to prepare war with cuba
DrLove847: and yes it is a confirmed document
DrLove847: not a conspiracy
AngrAndTheTruth: but the united states never even went to war with cuba
DrLove847: because the plan was shot down when the plan was exposed
DrLove847: and what i meant by pearl harbor
DrLove847: was the admiral of japan was known to attack 12 days before it occured
DrLove847: Yamamoto i think his name was
AngrAndTheTruth: well the ties between the Bush family and the bin laden family are almost schoolroom knowledge, but i still have trouble believing that bush WANTED this to happen, but when it did, he grabbed a hold of the situation
AngrAndTheTruth: and he knew about it before
AngrAndTheTruth: right, but its still wasnt schemed by the US
DrLove847: i didnt say it was
AngrAndTheTruth: but i do think that these two sitauations are quite similar
DrLove847: but i did give an example of a time when it was
DrLove847: and its not like northwoods was going to make us go directly to war with them
DrLove847: it was made to rally public support
AngrAndTheTruth: well of course
AngrAndTheTruth: that is necessary
AngrAndTheTruth: the public must be swayed first
DrLove847: im just saying i have reason to believe
AngrAndTheTruth: My idea is that one big catastrophe branched off to many injust proposals (patriot act, homeland security, war on iraq) that bush makes behind everyoens back, while waving a flag and shouting god bless america at appearences
AngrAndTheTruth: adn then he'll need soldiers for the war, so he puts out propoganda, which is an age old tradition of world powers
AngrAndTheTruth: as we all know
DrLove847: its all a feeble minded power excercise but im just saying that he had interests in central asia and it all seems a bit too convenient that he can now grasp the untapped oil reserves in the caspian sea
DrLove847: 2nd biggest in the world
DrLove847: next to saudi arabias
DrLove847: homeland security and the patriot act would be non existant
AngrAndTheTruth: of course
DrLove847: if it werent for an attack on americas institutions
DrLove847: so it seems like it was intricately planned out
AngrAndTheTruth: well i mean of course they did that after 9-11
AngrAndTheTruth: he*
AngrAndTheTruth: he wasnt going to just sit backj
AngrAndTheTruth: he was going to capitalize off of a disaster
DrLove847: bush senior had ties with osama
AngrAndTheTruth: i know
AngrAndTheTruth: i said that a ways back
DrLove847: osama led the i.s.i
DrLove847: gen mahomoud ahmed of pakistan wired over 100,000 to mohammed atta who was the led terrorist hijacker in 9-11. he was on an official visit form the 9th to the 14th of september, in which he met colin powell and george dennet and such.
AngrAndTheTruth: where are you getting this
DrLove847: hes has links with bush and the terrorists. on a sociological viewpoint it implies
DrLove847: well i think u got it from here
DrLove847: i had a talk with a friend of mine earlier
DrLove847: his argument was so convincing i agreed with him
DrLove847: im not that stubborn
AngrAndTheTruth: just because he had a convincing argument?
AngrAndTheTruth: still you shoudl think what you want to think
DrLove847: just because his point of view seems way more logical
AngrAndTheTruth: well is what you told me basically what he said?
DrLove847: no there was much more
AngrAndTheTruth: oh
DrLove847: but from what ive heard i think theres a pretty big chance this was planned out
DrLove847: im not like copying and pasting
DrLove847: i just remembered a few things
DrLove847: things that stuck in my head
DrLove847: u could have a way better argument with him
AngrAndTheTruth: when you say planned out, do you mean that a certain while ago, bush sat down with bin laden or one of his reps and they came up with the solution to kill about 20,000 people and then go to war?
AngrAndTheTruth: like you always say, the government isnt a "creature of the night"
AngrAndTheTruth: and thats a pretty creature-esqu thing to do
DrLove847: right there not evil
DrLove847: but
AngrAndTheTruth: profit-seeking i know
DrLove847: we do live in a dog-eat-dog society
DrLove847: not to mention a capitlalistic society
DrLove847: to stay on top of the world
DrLove847: we need to americanize and conquer
DrLove847: and the best way to stay powerful is of course
DrLove847: a powwerful military
DrLove847: and to have all of these attacks and such take place
DrLove847: we need public support
DrLove847: to get public support
DrLove847: the public needs to be shaken up and scared stiff
AngrAndTheTruth: you make a valid point
AngrAndTheTruth: btu only for war
AngrAndTheTruth: there are so mayn other ways
AngrAndTheTruth: you you should join the totse message boards
DrLove847: a peaceful way that would work?
AngrAndTheTruth: sure
AngrAndTheTruth: tell the publiuc something
AngrAndTheTruth: make up a sotry
AngrAndTheTruth: sory
AngrAndTheTruth: story
AngrAndTheTruth: its so easy
DrLove847: but whats a story with hard evidence
AngrAndTheTruth: we did it in the gulf war
DrLove847: like the song says
DrLove847: the explanations dont add up to the facts


I have yet to be provided with evidence that proves anything. keep in mind, i am not a hardcore activist or socialogist, so i am not up to date on my terminology and facts.

which one were you?

i am angrandthetruth

if thats true bush is really fucked up and should be tortured for weeks then killed

If find the fact that People say that Bush didnt want it to happen insane. He obviously knew it was going to happen, the hole lot of them knew, they didnt care, and more to the point let it happen because bush understood its propaganda value. George Bush has been waiting for this to happen, its makes his job much easier because it gives him the excuse to attack anyone and have everyone begging at his feet to do so, in the interests of "National Security". Attacing Iraq will be the first step in a whole sequence of discusting events that will probably occur in the next few years. When the soldiers go in to kill people in Iraq, dont tell me that it will cause even more retaliation. Ill only lead to more people getting mad, leading to more terrorits attacking here. Then what do you think Our goverment will tell us we need? Anouther fucking war! In the end it will lead to a situation where its not safe to walk down the street, and Bushs gonna love it, beacuse it putts even more power in his hands.

what a selfish butthole!

[This message has been edited by devoiced (edited 12-21-2002).]

http://www.totse.com/en/conspiracy/institutional_analysis/167500.html

I dont know, I dont fully support either. But I m leaning towards Bush being a part of it.

oh stfu

all u stupid ppl and ur stupid ideas and conspiracies.

Now what i think. I think that the world is a huge conspiracy and this isnt really a planet. Its a expermint by huge monster and they are gunna eat us. How bout that

I'd say you're pretty stupid. I'd say you're pretty stupid if you mean it or not.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/

ur a fukin idiot.

ya SHUT THE FUCK UP

ppl and thier stupid ideas lead to this nonsense

...yeah, these guys should 'shut up'. I mean---this is, after all---the Conspiracy Forum! There is absolutely NO ROOM for this kind of talk here!

Loan Nuts Da Clown
a.k.a. yet another purveyor of sarcasm

There is a possibility that it could be true, so people should really look into it.

Also don't believe everything you read. It's a lot harder to steal half the world's oil, than you think.

Is your friend a retard?

History gives us a man called ramsi u'sef (probabaly mispelled but i don't give a fuck) who was responsible for the first bombing of one of the WTC towers back in 1993. He fled the country but was later captured a few years later. During his flight back into NY, he said "the towers will fall."

Sure we had a warning, every militant islamic fundamentalist terrorist organzation known to man in the eastern hemisphere at one time has threatened to take down our tallest buildings for decades now.

allow me to quote from a rant i wrote on my web page

I think George Bush let 9/11 happen. A president who actually cared about the disaster and the dead people would not have used it to further his position. Nothing but good things have come of 9/11 for George Bush. He's got more power, he's virtually stomped opposing parties into the ground because the fear looking unpatriotic. He's started a war and will start more wars with no fear of repurcussion, and no purpose other than to serve the oil companies he's sold his soul to. Over one-thousand Afghan civilians were killed during our bombing raids, oftentimes by deliberate misinformation from Afghan warring factions. Why? Because our precious American soldiers, and let's remember they are in fact soldiers, not a single one drafted, couldn't go in and fight our fight before spraying the entire country with bombs. We might as well starting bombarding hostage situations at bank robberies with hand grenades so the police don't get hurt. Let's remember, we were "supposedly" fighting to free these people from the "evil" Taliban that was killing innocent civilians. I thought you weren't supposed to kill hostages you were trying to save. Oh wait, you can kill hostages as long as you're Russia and you can trade your support of the U.S. for their support of your murderous bully tactics.

Let's be honest people, that's what it is. Prior to his election, when asked about the fighting in Chechnya, he said he thought Russia was wrong, that the world needed to stop the killing of innocent women and children. Now that Russia supports his actions, Bush calls the Chechynians terrorists. Let's remember than Chechnya in no way joined Russia voluntarily. They were hostilely and violently invaded. At times in history Russia has actually attempted to move the entire male populations of Chechnya to Siberia. So now invaded countries can actually be deemed terrorists? Hardly, only in this world can they get away with. In a world of uneducated blind masses, a world where profit outweighs moral obligations of the media. A world that seems to be leading only to Orwell's 1984.

I digress. What about George Bush and 9/11. What right do I have to accuse him of letting it happen. Let's use an American system. What those examining a crime so often called means, motive, and oppurtinity. Means. Of course he had the means, he's the leader of the United States, the person deemed by most to be the most powerful person in the world. Motive. Bush's power has done nothing but skyrocket upwards since 9/11. Sure this is obvious in hindsight, but it's pretty fair to state that even the most retarded idiotic political analyst could tell that a president who pretends to be the nation's big brother and accuses anyone who opposes him of being unpatriotic is going to gain power after a terrorist act of this magnitude takes place. Oppurtunity, did George Bush have the oppurtunity to know of this attack, and do nothing. You're Goddamn right he did. In July 2001, an FBI agent named Bill Kurtz was leading a team when Kenneth Williams noticed a lot of their suspects were taking flying courses. The memo they subsequently wrote was completely ignored. From January to September of 2001, 15 memos were issued by the FAA warning of possible domestic hijackings of airplanes. At least 2 of the memos named bin Laden as a suspect.

In Januray of '95 Philipinne police raided a bomb factory and got information stating that there were plans to crash an airplane in a CIA building. In Aug. 6, '01 Bush was briefed about possible attacks and was informed that bin Laden might be interested in hijacking airplanes. August 17, '01 Zacarias Moussaoui was arrested by the FBI due to tips from flight-school workers. Agents are warned that Moussaoui may be planning to fly something into the World Trade Center. On May 16, '02 Condoleezza Rice(Bush's right hand woman, she is often the first person he sees when he wakes up and the last person he sees before he goes to sleep) states at a press conference "I don't think anybody could have predicted these people would take an airplane and slam it into the World Trade Center." Oh fucking please bitch, little Bush boy forgot to mention to you all these warnings? Fucking bullshit, all I can say is God save the souls of the people murdered on 9/11, and I'm sorry you could have been saved, but were left to die so Bush could further his own cause.

And you know what, Goddamn the fact that this country has Mr. Rogers flip the coin at the Rose Bowl.

to the best of my knowledge everything i put in there is true and was researched in some magazines and books

and fuck anyone who says any conspiracy is stupid, they're conspiracy's for a reason, because they benefit the party names as the conspirator and because it is, however improbable, a possibility

i will "hypothetically" kill anyone who says george bush is a good guy, labels themself a republican when they could make a different decision on each issue instead of eathing the bullshit pie a party feeds them, and anyone who disagree's with me, however entitled to their opinion they are

[This message has been edited by kaos_ill (edited 01-06-2003).]

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I think George Bush let 9/11 happen.

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lol i'm sorry but he's not that powerful.

not that powerful?

he's the head of the executive branch, the branch which enforces the law, if he doesn't want someone to do something, then ta dah!

all he had to do was not tell the (insert pathetically underfunded undermanned agency here) that they needed to take action, instead he could just let the warnings keep on streaming in

The legislative branch makes national headlines more often than any other branch of government. I don't fear the executive branch.

quote:

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if he doesn't want someone to do something, then ta dah!

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You are over estimating the man's powers. Most people who don't understand the constitution of the united states of america do. It's okay =)

quote:

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he had to do was not tell

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Regarding thet threat of terrorism the executive branch gets the same information that certain members of congress and the senate (making up a specific commitee - a kind of mock homeland defense panel) get during closed sessions.

Ever hear of "letting your guard down" ?? Decades prior to the attacks threats against airlines poured in by the dozens on a daily basis. If I had to blame someone speficially it would be the FAA for not taking everyone serious and have the resources and means to follow up on each and every one.

[This message has been edited by I Love Poop (edited 01-07-2003).]

i'm not overestimating the political etc. power of the president, i'm quite sure he can coerce and make "deals" with most anyone he would have needed to to ensure that inadequate measures were taken to prevent 9/11

if you'll read what i posted i mention a specific briefing in which bush met with an actual person and was told about the threat, i don't know if this is equal to or lesser than whatever the legislative branch recieved, but i'll go ahead and agree with you that they probably knew the same things since it does seem more likely and since i don't believe there's a way we can find out

exactly, bush failed to respond to a decades old threat even after people got in his face and told him, idiot, we're probably going to get attacked, a guy we just caught said they want to crash something into the world trade center,

and i fully agree with you that we should blame the faa, i mean after all, the executive branch > dept. of transportation > faa , and george bush is the head of the executive branch

i only take this to mean that since bush had direct knowledge of a man who's taking flight school lessons and who's admitted there are plans to crash something into the wtc, someone made a big fucking boo-boo, or turned their head

don't get me wrong, i'm not sitting here saying bush called osama or some bullshit and said hey i need you to make something go boom, i'm saying he realized a terrorist attack on the u.s. would benefit him and he deliberately left a channel of attack open because he thought if anyone ever did think he left the channel of attack open, they would look like some nutcase on totse saying he let it happen, hence the conspiracy theory i guess,

and let me also say that it was my mistake that i said repeatedly i believe he let it happen, i meant it's a possibility he let it happen, and anywhere i've said i think he did etc etc what i'm saying is i recognize there's a possibility and i won't make up my mind either way until i know more

[This message has been edited by kaos_ill (edited 01-08-2003).]

Hmm... All I can do is think about that... Seems very believable

Im a believer.

This is the biggest pile of red, white and blue all american bullshit i have ever seen in my life here on totse

quote:

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bush failed to respond to a decades old threat even after people got in his face and told him

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And what did clinton do? He recieved all the same intel. The embasay bombings and the uss cole bombing were on his watch. What did he do? Lob a few cruise missles that didn't hit their intended target and then he went back to getting some sucky sucky with monica.

what does me saying it's a possibility bush let 9/11 happen for his own benefit have to do with clinton??

besides, if you'll look at the date of the capture of moussani and his admittance of plans to attack the wtc, it happened during bush's term

and the fact that clinton stuck his dick in a girls mouth has nothing to do with anything, it's the fact that he lied about it, you people should be bitching about clinton being a liar, not a nympho wanna be

i also never said it wasn't partially any previous president's responsibility for not raising faa security, i've clearly repeatedly stated that my argument is that it's a possibility that bush let 9/11 take place for his and his party's own benefit