Are there such a thing as secret societies.
I mean actual evidence that they exist.

then they wouldn't be a secret would they.

you could call the US government a secret society, they exist. not much of a secret though.

demonbob

This is such a vast topic that it has to be answered step by step; in "chapters" that I can�t write in one go. So this is only the first part of the answer...

If I take your question literally, the answer is no. A secret society can�t, per definition, be evidently known.

Mme Blavatsky and others have hinted at "the Great White Brotherhood", or "the Great 13" and similar, secret spiritual leaders, supposedly overseeing, and sometimes interfering with, the life of humanity. Needless to say, this has never been proven...

The term Secret Societies is, for most of the time, a misnomer for secretive societies, such as the Freemansons, the Rosicrucians and all other, more or less similar, Occult societies. Occult means in itself hidden, and nothing else, even if it�s now mostly used to hint at something sinister, such as Black Magic.

The Freemansons and the Rosicrucians have esoteric teachings that are kept secret, also to the members until they reach the right degree; i.e. the right level of education in the teachings. These teachings are of a spiritual nature, and have nothing to do with politics or similar things. Most Freemasonic Lodges even forbid the members to speak about politics and "ordinary" religion, during the meetings.

The teachings of the Freemansons and the Rosicrucians have always been seen as heretical, by the Roman Christian (Catholic) Church. And as long as the church had real power to go after heretics - with the help of the Inquisition, and other means - the "heretics" had to be very secretive. The Roman Christian Church also used propaganda to miscredit the Masons and all other religious "freethinkers". They were accused of Satanism, human sacrifice, sodomy etc, and also of having plans to "take over the world".

This seemingly became reality with the French revolution,and therefore also the American Revolution, when it became known that parts of the political ideology had been thought up within Masonic, or actually pseudo-Masonic, secret societies, such as the Ancient and Illuminated Seers of Bavaria, or the Illuminati, for short.

Already at the end of the 18th century, conspiranoiacs claimed that the Illuminati were the real initiators of both revolutions. Other conspiranoiacs followed this up with claiming that the, then since long defunct, Illuminati, were still at large, as a "Secret Government". As one of the founders of the Illuminati was Jewish, it was soon "natural" to call it a jewish secret society and therefore a jewish secret world government.

In the early 20th century a conspiranoiac by the name Nesta Webster wrote a few seemingly well researched books, claiming to prove that the Illuminati were still going strong and ruling the world, according to a Jewish agenda.

Nesta Webster can also be said to be the mother of modern conspiranoia, of the kind that claims that the world is governed by this or that secret society.

Everything from the ZOG theory (or truth for those who believe in it), to the more long-going versions of the Majestic 12 theory, are in all their essentials Nesta Webster�s more than 80 year old "revealed truth" about the Illuminati. A lot of modern conspiranoiacs don�t even bother to change the name. They use the name "Illuminati" and apply their own pet theories to it.

Is there any truth in it?! Well, let us first assume that the world is governed by one secret society, or a conglomerate of secret societies.

Then we take a look at the world around us. Does it seem to have one singular, all powerfull government?! If so, does this government seem to be in control?!

Unfortunately I have to take a break here.

Meanwhile, those who are interested can go to the topic France and Russia�s Backdoor Dealings With Saddam (here in the Conspiracy Community).

In the first post on page 2 I have made a brief summary of the story of Opus Dei. One of the most influential, and one of the least known, secretive societies with a "hidden agenda", we have in this world.

For now...

Ewige Blumenkraft to ye all!

FoxLeonard



[This message has been edited by FoxLeonard (edited 11-07-2002).]

why not just call him a fucking moron and forget about it.
stupid posts don't deserve good replys.

quote:

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Originally posted by RAOVQ:
why not just call him a fucking moron and forget about it.
stupid posts don't deserve good replys.

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And what kind of reply does the post quoted above deserve?!

One part: Let me be the judge of wich posts I choose to reply to!

and

One part: Thanks for the kind remark about my post.

FoxLeonard

quote:

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Is there any truth in it?! Well, let us first assume that the world is governed by one secret society, or a conglomerate of secret societies

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Let's say we can also assume this isn't true based on the fact that there are multiple secret societys: illluminati, freemasons [templar], Rosicrucians, bilderberg.[sp?] One wouldn't be overpowered by the other, and thus no one secret society would have absolute control. So we can also assume there is a power struggle between the factions.

quote:

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Everything from the ZOG theory (or truth for those who believe in it), to the more long-going versions of the Majestic 12 theory

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Isn't the Mj-12 conspiracy based on aliens, and no world control?

There is enough evidence that all these societies exist, its just that most people thing x-files type conspiracies when thinking about them.

Bilderberg isn't even a secret society, its a loose correlation of people and groups dedicated to making more money for themselves. The only thing secret about it is whats discussed and talked about. You can freely gain a list of the names of the attendees.

Dion!

You have come to the right conclusion! and we don�t even have to assume. Your conclusion is already proven by history.

All secretive societies suffer from extensive infighting and splintering, already within the singular groups.

A look at the history of Occult societies in Europe in the late 19th century, shows that most groups had split into two or more groups, within a few years after the founding of the original group.

There is, today, about five separate Rosicrucian societies who all claim to be the only real one; the inheritors of the secret teachings of the original Rosicrucians. Freemansonry is split up in a similar fashion. and there are pseudo Masonic groups on top of that.

The groups that have actually aimed for political - or similar - power have suffered from the same. To some extent one conspiring group have sometimes managed to side with another, to both gain from it, but for most time they have fought, and fight, each other, as much as they fight for their actual cause.


Groups such as the Bilderbergs (or Bilderbergers) and the Club of Rome, are more "think tanks" than actual secretive societies. They are groups that come up with political ideas and try to make them happen, mostly by lobbying and similar, more or less "ordinary" political methods.

The Bilderbergs are one of the secretive groups that have made the European Union into reality. Working together with other similarly secretive groups, such as the League for the United States of Europe.

But they don�t rule, or even try to rule, the EU. They lobby, manipulate and conspire to make their ideas happen, but when the new part of the EU puzzle has been added, they actually let the politicians take over and use it.

Yes, the Majestic 12 conspiracy is about Aliens, and USA�s collaborations with Aliens. But some conspiranoiacs go further and claim that the Aliens rule the world, together with the Majestic 12. Most of the details that are used for these claims, are in all essentials borrowed from Nesta Webster�s, and her forerunners, books about the Illuminati, ruling the world according to a Jewish agenda. In the new scenario the Illuminati have been replaced by the Majestic 12 (and sometimes also the US government), and the Jews have been replaced by the Aliens. And voila�, a new conspiracy is born!


As you mention the Templars (or Knights Templar) in connection to Freemansonry, I can take the opportunity to say that Freemansonry claims to be the continuance of the Knights Templar and therefore also to know the secrets of the Knights Templar. Most traditional historians disagree, but they have always been so convinced that it was a myth, that they haven�t really researched it. Modern Esoteric historians, since the late 19th century and on, have found some facts behind the Masonic claims.


Most of the groups like the Freemansons and the Rosicrucians, didn�t have any ambitions at political power, or any kind of power. And they still don�t.

The so called Masonic groups that actually have been involved in political conspiracies, have been groups founded along the lines of Fremansonry; i.e. a hierarcic system with everything from 13 to 33 degrees, and esoteric teachings, one step at the time. This was very practical as they could recruit people to a seemingly ordinary, if Occult, society with esoteric spriritual teachings. Then they could see whom could be trusted and let them know little by little, one degree at the time, about the actual cause of the society.

The Bavarian Illuminati was one such group, and similar groups were founded in France, to make it possible to have meetings and recruit enough people etc, for what was to become the French revolution. In that sense it is right to claim that it was secret societies that were behind the revolution. But the claim is more often that it was Freemansons who were behind it. Some of the people involved were for sure Masons, but they also belonged to the other groups, that just looked like Masonic lodges. It would actually be more correct to call them political parties forced to work in secret.

Well, this will have to be chapter 2, even if it became a little muddled and sketchy...

Wiecny kwiat wtadza!

FoxLeonard

there are secret societies wihin some ivy league universities (I'm not getting this from the skulls even though that movie kicks ass)

[This message has been edited by DeusExMachina (edited 11-11-2002).]