We all know a lot of things that have to do with the US government are very dirty! And it's always a good idea to be aware, but how much can "we the people" do about it? I really would like some feedback on this issue. I live in Oklahoma city and people here are painfully clear on our government's ability to cover thier asses! Let me know what you think.
Irish

Move to the Carribean. I also hear the Marquesas are very nice, indeed. There is nothing you can do. Ass covering is what governments do -> Governments are composed of people -and> People are corrupt. Just like cells make up tissues, tissues make up organs, and an organ system is a human being.

Move away. The whole purpose of the United States, I hear, is to give the second and third world a better life. Since you don't need a better life you should leave the country to make room for them.

I agree and thanks for the response. Although it it was question prompted by all of the propaganda I read here. I figured if people have all of this time to rant on these issues that they must have found a solution by now!
I have been all over the world and believe me this is my home for many reasons far to many to list.I LOVE IT HERE! I just don't like loosing some of the freedom and security that has gone down the toilet since 9-11 for "homeland security". Say what you like but somehow I have to think you because you didnt answer the question you proably didnt have have a clue what could be done!
BYE, IRISH

what do you mean there is nothing people can do about it?
people can change things, show them the problem and theyll want to fix it. the thing is, many people don't see a problem, or choose to ignore it.

"People are corrupt."
how about power corrupts. seems a bit more reasonable. if someone has no power, they can't be corrupt. so, stop giving people power.

"The whole purpose of the United States, I hear, is to give the second and third world a better life."
unless this is some deep meaning wit that i don't get, i need to say that america is the main thing holding countries back. think of the world bank and WTO. they lend money to dictators to buy weapons, then when the country gets back on its feet, it demands the money back, and if the country can't afford it, social neccesities like education and welfare is sacraficed.

saying nothing can be done is the easy way out. things can be changed, it just takes organisation. if you want civil liberties back, organise a rally, petition, try the media, do something! alert people to the problem, then tell them how to fix it.

Well, alot can actually be done if you ever want to expose the "dirty" secrets or otherwise known as conspiracies. You can either report to the United Nations but only on conditions if it meant either a crisis or at a 'unhealthy' level for the people. But tell you wat, never 'fight' or take the "conspirators' on, be it the government or thier agents, you will never be able to do it alone. Well, that's all I can say for now, if you need any help or anything all, pls feel free to contact me at "******@**.com".

=)

[This message has been edited by Lokil (edited 04-18-2002).]

taking things on yourself is a bad idea unless you want to get 'inside'. the thing is not to actaully do anything until you can go all out. don't pop up and say one thing, wait for it to fizzle while you find another, then say that one. in australia we have had enough stuff to cause a revolution (or at least disgrunteledness) but it was spread out and people lost intrest.

quote:

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Originally posted by RAOVQ:
stop giving people power.

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Yeah, that works. That's why the Los Angeles keeps putting in lame duck sheriffs.

Quetaz,

For the sake of argument, you have just exposed every secret and nasty expose that the US Government has done, is doing, or will do. Now what?

Pretty please, don't give me the UN bit. Gabon, (this country on both sides of an African river) has the same vote in the UN as does the US. Do you think that it's possible that Gabon has its own set of dirty little secrets? How about ...(fill in the name of the country)?

The country/government named perfect doesn't exist. All of us hope for perfection and would like to think that our own government is as close to that ideal. Surprise, surprise. Welcome to reality.

Nox

Nox

I must say that you have given me quite a bit to reflect on. Though all governments are not ideal but we cannot live with some "critical" lies which they have kept secret from the people if it was even meant for the interest of the people. But I still believe that exposing such "acts" would be the responsibility of the people(citizens) to the people. Such responsibilities should have been self-improvised the very second Pandora opened her box.

But still in the end, people does have every right & freedom to know of such "acts" and act upon it.

Qeutaz

quote:

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Originally posted by qeutaz:
Nox

I must say that you have given me quite a bit to reflect on. Though all governments are not ideal but we cannot live with some "critical" lies which they have kept secret from the people if it was even meant for the interest of the people. But I still believe that exposing such "acts" would be the responsibility of the people(citizens) to the people. Such responsibilities should have been self-improvised the very second Pandora opened her box.

But still in the end, people does have every right & freedom to know of such "acts" and act upon it.

Qeutaz

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Here's some additional stuff to reflect on:

How would people know which paperwork has all the "dirt"?

Where would they begin their search for it?

Even if The People won the revolt against the Green Machine, how long could they hold on to that power before going belly up?

*Remember that during the Colonial Rebellion (Yanks)there were 10 domestic revolutions occurring at the same time!

All failed, but not before a lot of wealthy and poor people were killed(hangings, rapes, murders, assassinations, mutilations, etc.)

Power is never meant to be shared, and democracy is a farce! The Elitists have owned the day for over 250 years in USA and control the flow of informacion permitted the Public.

[This message has been edited by SunOptikos (edited 04-21-2002).]

Well Sun,

Since you put it this way, I can't agree with you more, but I would still prefer to look forward to and would still prefer to keep believing that in the near future, there would be a world where real freedom of speech and freedom to know what the government is doing for the people or to the people.

And I would galdly cling on to this believe and continue believing.

The way to differenciate between "clean" & "dirty" is really by ur self, how do you feel about it, if you think its right, its right, if you think its wrong, its wrong.
Go with what you think.
ThanX for enlightning me anyway.

Quetaz

It is quite obvious that democracy is a farce. It is a form of government.

Government- act of governing; exercise of authority; the systime of governing a state; territory over which rule is exercised; the administrative council or body; the executive power; control; rule.

Democracy- a form of government(control) for the people by the will of the majority of the people.

Here is something I don't understand;

Freedom- liberty, immunity, indecoruos familiarity.
Liberty- freedom(immunity) from bondage or restraint; power to act according to one's natural rights as an individual; PRIVILEGE; undue freedom of act or speech.
Natural- in accordance with, belonging to, or derived from nature; inborn; unconstrained; normal(hah); in a state of nature; unaffected; unassuming; true to life; illegitimate.
Rights- straight; proper; upright; in accordance with truth and duty; being on same side of person toward the east when facing north; in politics, implying preservation of existing, established order or of restoring former institutions.

Figure that shit out.

Now how about religion?

Religion- belief in supernatural power which governs universe; recognition of God as object of worship; practical piety; any system of faith and worship.

I for one, do not see anything Super-natural about that which governs(controls) the universe. In fact I don't think it controls the universe I think it is the universe.

System- whole scheme of created created things regarded as forming one complete whole; universe; organization; classification; set of doctrines or principles; the body as functional unity.

Organization- act of giving a definite structure or uniting in a society.

Sounds like religion is a way to unite a society in a set of doctrines or principles of faith and worship. The thing about it is, most religions would have you believe, they are the only ones who are correct. i.e. Christians, Catholics, Jews and Muslims. Hmmm... aren't these the most widespread of religions? So really, isn't this an effective way to actually divide people? I mean really, even if you say they don't believe they are the only ones who are right, they live by a whole different set of rules(control)i.e. you can do this, but not this, this is ok, this is not, this is how it is done, this is not. Hmmm... is religion just another form of government? I believe so.
Let's look at evolution, the most commenly accepted reason for how we got to were we are now. Darwin says, ' survival of the fittest'. I say these people BECAME the "fittest" because they learned/gathered information that others did not have. i.e. how to make fire, how to construct weapons, how to hunt, how to make clothing, how to build shelters. Basically this is knowing what the re-action could be if said action/s are taken. How can we as a people evolve as a people if information is kept from us? Some may say, it is for our protection, so what? What protection is it that does not allow a people to evolve? We as a people have extremely overpopulated the earth as it is, if some information causes people to become afraid, kill themselves or kill others, bummer. (yes, i am taking into account my self and family) You may say this is cold blooded, but what are you willing to do for the greater good of Humanity? How much are you willing to sacrifice for the entire planet to evolve, to become better? I'm not saying I would kill my family, but I would do what it takes to protect them and help them evolve. "Survival of the fittest" and all that.
I've blathered on long enough.