How many amps does it take to kill someone?
I understand that weight is a factor, so could you provide a few examples based on weight?

I'm new to electronics and my first experiment will be to modify the stun gun to be able to adjust the amps.
I just don't want to make it too powerful, but I do want it to be able to put down a 230 pound drunk (not to mention my neighbor's cat :) without killing.

Thanks,
Who's Your Daddy?

i vagely recall my science teacher (or my dad) telling me once that as little as .01 amps can kill someone. but thats with high volts- i don't know really, but i think its inveresly proportional to the amount of volts you have- that is to say, if you have 10million volts, its prob very small, but if you have 5volts, quite large. maybe someone knows a good site on electricity. try looking on the non-forums here.

Take apart an electric dog collar.

By the way, this is a bad idea.

volts dont kill they just jurt amps kill so i doubt the validity of that but mayby just the .01 amp my dad sayz that alot less then one amp will do it and hes an electrical engineer so im gonna trust him but volts has nothing to do with it

I'll make this short and sweet.

This is a felony idea not just a bad idea.

Remove your head from your nether parts and return it to your shoulders. Once there, start using the brain inside.

Nox

*reads stock answer from Nox*

Who gives a shit if my question, or any question, is a good idea or bad idea. It's a valid question.

I deserves a valid answer.

BTW, my goal is *not* juice someone enough kill them. If I don't know what the level is, I may go through it.

However, if you would like to *volunteer* for testing...just let me know. :)

A little bitty amount of amps can do you in. What makes the difference is where and how it is applied. Different parts of the body have different resistance. I got zapped with 125 amps(a large amount not normally encountered around the house) through a fucked up DC Arc welder. It knocked me on my ass but I lived. I took the hit through my hand and arm. The current didn't go through my heart, so I lived. If I had one hand grounded and one on the stinger, it would have gone straight through my heart and a much smaller amount would have toasted me.

On a stun gun the contacts are close so the shock doesn't have a chance to screw with anything major. So you can crank it up and it still won't have the immediate affect that you're looking for. Cranking up the current would necessitate a huge battery and everything in the circuit would have to be strengthened or else you would just blow the cap or transformer that's in there. Doing that would mean your stung gun wouldn't be easy to sneak around with anymore.

Look at how a cattle prod(hot shot) is made. They're huge as compared to a stun gun, yet still won't do any serious damage to a person. I don't know the numbers of the output of those fuckers, but it gets through leather and alot of meat and fat and will make a 2000 lb undercooked hamburger moving in a hurry.

Cool.

So I don't really need to worry about killing someone if am just using a 9V or a few Ds?

My goal is to make the stun gun adjustable so I can use it on a light weight, but crank it up for fat drunk.

So, should I concentrate on volts or amps?

Has anyone here been hit with a stun gun? I got zapped with a smaller one(60,000 I think) just out of curiosity. It will fuck you up for a little while. It doesn't drop you like on TV but it sucks everybit of energy out of you and you become very disoriented and weak. You can fight back if you absolutely need to, but you'll have to end it fast. For me(6'170lbs at the time) the stronger effects lasted about 30 minutes, but I was weak and naseaus(sp?)for the rest of the day.

In my opinion, stun guns are a good self defense tool, but an asp or OC would be better especially in cold season when people dress heavily. I took the hit on the bare arm, but a shirt or jacket would have cut the effects alot if not entirely.

Ohms law is E=I*R
E being electromotive force(voltatge)
I being current(amps)
R being resitance(ohms)

do a llittle bit of algebra and you find out that if you increase voltage, you'll also increase the current if the resitance stays the same. The resistance in this case is the person getting zapped.

A fat drunk would probably be a little bit sweaty and his concentration would already be blurred, so I think he should get a bigger effect. The stun gun doesn't necessarily act on pain,(hurts like a bitch) but by confusing the nerves and muscles.

Wiring a second 9 volt into the gun in parallel would increase the current, while putting it in series would increase the voltage. Increasing one will increase the other, but it's hard to tell how you should do it without seeing how the circuit is set up. It might have a regulator to keep people from playing with the power supply, or simply to make it more reliable.

What is an ASP or OC?

I read some where that the frequency can also make a difference. If you can match it the body's frequency it really screw up the nervous system. That is to say a total body spasam and a voiding of the bowels.

Thanks rlpinca.

I have just taken up electronics and follow what you say.

V=IR

I was think of using a potentometer to control the flow of power (V?).

An ASP is a little puny looking extendable baton that can fuck your world up in the right hands. Cops carry them alot, looks like a little tube about a foot long when it's collapsed.

OC is pepper spray. Some people say it doesn't work very well, but I've been hit with that also and it isn't any fun. Most people panic when sprayed and that is the main advantage. People that are drunk or doped up don't know to panic when their eyes and lungs burn, so it's not as effective on them.


Instead of a pot, how about a switch that disconnects one of the batteries? Is the one you're playing with basically, just a big cap and some control circuitry, or is it more complexe? I don't remember how they are set up.

I really like the switch idea. I'll use it(don't worry, there will be royalties paid

How does the ASP work? Is it electronic?

BTW, I found the schematic for the cattle prod. You're right, just bigger, meaner components (plus a transformer). The caps in the stun gun are two 4700 uFs. The prod uses 2 500 ufs and 2 2000 uFs.


What should I use for leads/prods?

It is manually extended by swinging it. Momentum and tight fitting pieces lock it together. The force is concentrated on a small area(the little ball at the tip) so it can drop a person quickly. A good hit to the thigh will put you on your ass quickly.

Why don't you solder in some more caps and put a switch on them? So that the extras only charge when you want them to. There should be a resistor after the caps to stretch out the discharge. If you were to reduce that resistance, the discharge would be faster and probably stronger.

A good conductor, maybe a little pointed is about all you need for leads. Regular copper or steel would work.

[This message has been edited by rlpinca (edited 10-01-2002).]

Would it be feasable to put the caps and resistors each behind a potentometer?

Like two dials or such? Dial up the caps and resistors for fine control?

Is it even worth it?

I'm really not sure. I'm a mechanic now, so I don't do very much circuit design. I used to be a mirowave radio tech so I was pretty good at rigging stuff up. Without seeing a schematic, I can't really picture the effects of the pot.

I think a switch would be alot easier to make work.

Remember that if they're electrolytic caps, they usually are polarity sensitive and can blow up if you do something wrong.

You know, it's those little details that no one putst in the books.

Like the if I reverse the leads on the cap IT WILL FUCKING BLOW UP!

Not that it bothers me or anything.

But...I guess I will go with the switches.

*sigh*

Here's a silly idea that I should have mentioned before. HOw about just buying a bigger stun gun? The engineers that make them can probably do alot better job than either of us.

But, if you're just fucking around with it trying to learn, then go ahead.

Yeah, it's mostly about learning how to diagram, label and quantify an electrical circuit.

Plus, I may try to fit it into a glove. Maybe make a pair.

Are you looking for a capacitor style discharge or a more steady closed circuit continuous charge when you "prod" them? You can actually get a bit more of a jolt out of a capacitor but it would require charge time whereas the closed circuit steady flow would be a bit lower power but ever ready as long as the power was "on".

I would go for the cap discharge.

If I was *actually* going to use it on anyone, I would want a quick jolt.

That would disorient them enough to finish the fight.


One another note, what component would I need to change the frequency of the charge. I heard if you can make it match the body's frequency it has a greater effect. (for all I know, this may be an urban legend)

Going from AC to DC is fairly easy with a few diodes. Going from DC to AC is pretty complicated. I'm pretty sure stun guns are DC, so it wouldn't be easy.

I don't know what to say about the frequency thing. I know 120 volts at 60 hz is pretty damn effective at fucking a person up. I'm not really sure what specific frequency you're talking about. The heart has electrical pulses that correspond to the pulse rate(that's what pace makers do), and the brain and nerves probably have a different set of pulses depending on what you're doing. Pretty much anything that is strong enough to interupt the heart's regulation would work pretty good, so matching the frequency probably wouldn't make too much of a difference.

I think it would be interesting to make a few of those 1 farad car audio caps into a stun gun. Although at that strength it would go from a stun gun to a small welder.

quote:

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Originally posted by rlpinca:
Ohms law is E=I*R
E being electromotive force(voltatge)
I being current(amps)
R being resitance(ohms)

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Um i might be wrong but im pretty sure all ohms law states is that it takes 1 volt to push one amp through 1 ohm. Volts and amps are completely indpendent of each other thats why stun guns can has so many volts without killing someone.

CTR

What kind of power source would that need?

quote:

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Originally posted by Who's Your Daddy?:
One another note, what component would I need to change the frequency of the charge. I heard if you can make it match the body's frequency it has a greater effect. (for all I know, this may be an urban legend)

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A crystal of the appropriate frequency resonance. It's the same principle behind putting Quartz crystals into an electric timepiece, or the crystal in a computer processor or motherboard...

Of course, you will have problems with trying to cycle high voltages through a crystal without shattering it...most crystal "clocks" run at very low voltage...

It seems we were wrong. This says that stun guns use tansformers and an oscillator to produce the needed voltage.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/stun-gun2.htm

So it's the voltage that matters.
An I need an oscillator to make the frequency (in hertz) match that of the human body (at least the muscles).

Any idea what that freq is?

quote:

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Originally posted by rlpinca:
It seems we were wrong. This says that stun guns use tansformers and an oscillator to produce the needed voltage.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/stun-gun2.htm

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Oooh, an oscillator...I hadn't thought of that...thanks man