i wasn,t sure where to post this thread , but has anyone tried that frequency thing with headphones to change the state o mind?
Do they work and do you know any good frequencies?
Some people may know what im going on about
Those of you who dont: http://www.nlpinfo.com/mindsync/index.shtml

Makes you think does it not?

eh it could be plausible.. wouldnt work for me cuz im deaf in my right ear and wouldnt hear the frequencies goin to the right side.. none the less it might set you off in a trance if it DOES work, and you wouldnt be able to snap out of it..

quote:

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Originally posted by frontalobe:
i wasn,t sure where to post this thread , but has anyone tried that frequency thing with headphones to change the state o mind?
Do they work and do you know any good frequencies?
Some people may know what im going on about
Those of you who dont: http://www.nlpinfo.com/mindsync/index.shtml

Makes you think does it not?

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I think it falls with in the definition here.

Theta & Kronikus, unless you really feel the need, can we please keep this one open; I think it fits? How about you?

[Of course, now we'll get bitched at for not closing a thread! LOL

[i don't see why it's not acceptable]

i think the "electronic drugs" are more of a meditation helper- your average raver isn't going to pop one of these on and be enlightened.

you first need the state of mind, then you need annoying buzzing, then you probably feel a little tipsy or halucinate the smallest bit because of a placebo effect...

drugs in powder, leaf, liquid, and tablet form have been proven easier to use.

yes but if you look on such sites that produce this stuff
they claim it can make you smarter,relaxed,energetic and even induce lucid dreaming (they also have good feedback for this)
imagine that! lucid dreaming at will!!
im sorry but if that worked then fuck drugs!!
i am a great fan of dreams and ultimatly the unconscious mind and i think that is fucking absolutly amazing!
i really want it to be true (and work)
IF I FIND THE SITE AGAIN ILL POST IT!!
please let us know if you have tried and been succesfull with it!

(i can hardly contain my excitment)

i don't think any of us have tried it.

lucid dreaming won't reveal the unconcious.
'tis merely electronics playing tricks.
no secrets unlocked, no freudian shits.
[oops i slipped]

[as for the above,
it's a pun: a play on words.
freudian slip, freudian shits.
oh fuck it, do i actually have to explain everything i say?! oh yea... i do.]

another great thing about drugs involving chemicals-
they affect your body.

lucid dreaming is like watching a movie directed by a neurotic schitzophrenic.
doing drugs is like being remotely controlled by a neurotic schitzophrenic.

see the difference?
[jesus and moses- Joses help me.
i didn't mean this as a flame, goddamnit.]

[This message has been edited by CRaZyAmishMaN (edited 12-04-2002).]

who said that it will unlock secrets and shit to the unconcius (not me!)
As for lucid dreaming , the possibilities are in fact endless, as is the potential of the human brain! if you cant grasp that concept then maybe you are doing too much drugs (or just plain ignorant)
And the fact that you may dream as if you are 'watching a movie' or whatever, that is your own personal visualization or dreaming technique. I would reccomend reading a introductory book on NLP.
SEE THE DIFFERENCE?
--------------------------------------------
Anyway, -heres that link http://www.brainwave-entrainment.com/bmv-series1.htm
check out the feedback responses!



[This message has been edited by frontalobe (edited 12-04-2002).]

quote:

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Originally posted by CRaZyAmishMaN:
i don't think any of us have tried it.

lucid dreaming won't reveal the unconcious.
'tis merely electronics playing tricks.

---

i dont mean to bitch (only to inform)
Lucid dreaming has nothing to do with electronics (in these circumstances, audio frequencies)
alot of people slip into these regulary,as do i but not enough /sigh]
if this could be done at will, the dreamer would in fact potentially have alot of control over the unconcious..

i'm sure it involves electricity.
are you going to hum the f'ing frequency?!
jesus.

[and yes, i now that lucid dreaming is... but "in these circumstances" it has to do with audio frequencies that were created E-LEC-TRON-ICALLY]

quote:

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alot of people slip into these regulary,as do i but not enough /sigh]

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regularly? i don't know about that.
if they did it wouldn't be special.
i can think of maybe one dream that could be called a lucid dream, but... well, it's borderline lucid.

quote:

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if this could be done at will, the dreamer would in fact potentially have alot of control over the unconcious..

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read much freud? [i have... and i suggest not to, damn, he did a lot of shit.]

[yes, yes, i realize. Freud = oldy moldy. i rather enjoyed his views on the mind. hey, who doesn't like an old "pervert"?]

you CANNOT control the unconcious.
[or, you cannot go "into" the unconscious through lucid dreaming and control it- track has been laid; you're just the train.]

if you could there would be no need for any stages of mental development. we'd be [mentally] perfect human beings.

i don't mean to flame... you've angered me.

[note to meta-
i have discraced myself...
i defend the post, thinking "hey, this guy deserves to be heard..."
and ugh... i've been flamed by him.

if you're having second thoughts about leaving it open...]

[This message has been edited by CRaZyAmishMaN (edited 12-04-2002).]

[let's point and laugh, the Amish were misunderstood again.

i meant your "lucid dream" is not affecting your body- how you act.
it may in YOUR DREAM, but it will not physically affect you.
joses, it was just an EXAMPLE!
see how in the first one-lucid dreaming- the "viewer" is not necessarily physically affected
and in the second one-drug use- the "user" is not only mentally stimulated, but physically also

quote:

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who said that it will unlock secrets and shit to the unconcius (not me!)
i am a great fan of dreams and ultimatly the unconscious mind and i think that is fucking absolutly amazing!

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excuse me?

quote:

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As for lucid dreaming , the possibilities are in fact endless, as is the potential of the human brain!

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did i limit us humans? no.

quote:

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if you cant grasp that concept then maybe you are doing too much drugs (or just plain ignorant)

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WHA... WHAT?!
thank you for pissing me off. and flaming me randomly. i have explained how i both understood and tried to tell you something. if you cannot grasp this it's not my FREAKIN problem.

my ignorance is not your problem. [and have i proven myself more or less ignorant through these posts? am i a "respected" poster or one who slops shit onto the boards?!]

as for the "doing too much drugs"... WTF? i think "we" almost all disagree with you on this.

IN FACT:
a big explitive goes to you!
doing drugs will convince me [b]more that the mind is limitless.
if you can't grasp that buy some chemicals.][/b]

quote:

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And the fact that you may dream as if you are 'watching a movie' or whatever, that is your own personal visualization or dreaming technique.

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i used that merely as an example. if you cannot grasp this... well, not my problem AGAIN!

quote:

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SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

---

OH, THANK you all mighty GIVER OF KNOWLEDGE!]

as for lucid dreaming:
NO control is necessary for it to be a lucid dream. it is only the fact that you realize you are dreaming.

[thought i'd clear that up and post this all where it makes more sense to a reader.]

[This message has been edited by CRaZyAmishMaN (edited 12-04-2002).]

look, what i said about 'i am a fan of dreams and ultimatly the unconcious'.That means that i like dreams and i like the unconcious.How the hell does that imply that secrets of the unconciousness can be obtained?-PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME!!
-quote-'i have explained how i both understood and tried to tell you something. '-NO YOU HAVE NOT!
-quote-'lucid dreaming is like watching a movie directed by a neurotic schitzophrenic.'
THAT IS NOT AN EXAMPLE, IT IS A STATEMENT!
-quote-'it may in YOUR DREAM, but it will not physically affect you.
joses, it was just an EXAMPLE!'
YOUR PREVIOUS POST DIDN'T IMPLY ANY OF THIS!
-quote-'you CANNOT control the unconcious'
YES U CAN USE THE UNCONCIOUS(THATS WHAT WE DO) AND TO USE SOMETHING MEANS TO CONTROL IT!!

IM REALLY SORRY I HAD TO DO THIS!
can we start a fresh? ( i believe this topic is worth that)

AND ANOTHER F'ING THING ON DREAMS!

whether or not they're lucid does not play a part on whether you have control [as i have said]

then there's the fact that you may FORGET your dream, lucid or not.

then there's the fact that you have to INTERPRET your dream. not you, mind you, you are a completely biased judge of yourself. you'd have to have someone trained to do so to hear your WHOLE dream expirience.
[oh yea, IT'S (IM)POSSIBLE]

[which is why Freud is... not completely correct with everything he said. Especially his (dream) theories, though they are a good read, and a great base for modern psychology.]

[scratch that, not a "great base" but a "healthy beginning" and a lovely "addition" to what would become modern psychology.

[This message has been edited by CRaZyAmishMaN (edited 12-04-2002).]

Hmm... It had great potential before that damn Amish guy started talking to himself.

I've tried such things before, using frequencies a few cycles apart in each ear to create the "beat" inside my head. I tried 4, 6, and 8 Hz, and I think the 6Hz was the most enjoyable. (Yes, that's Theta frequency. Aren't I The Man?) I won't pretend that it was as much fun as a chemically induced experience, but it's very mellowing. It's very conducive to meditative states.

quote:

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whether or not they're lucid does not play a part on whether you have control [as i have said]

---

Lucid means to know you are dreaming,
when you know you are dreaming you CAN do what you want in and with that dream, hence CON-TROL- it!
Well i can anyway!! And im sure..positive that i can find alot of people who would agree with me!
and can i remind you of the topic for this thread, if you want to talk about how dreams work (or how you think they work)please start your own thread!

ThetaReactor-
Have you heard that certain frequencies can induced hallucinations? an have you tried this? theres a text on it somewhere on this site (probably Drugs)?

(i was glad that someone made a thread about this audio tone stuff, as i was wondering about it... then it turned into pretty unrelated fighting shit)

so anyways

I found this on this page of this site http://www.totse.com/en/drugs/otc/no_drug.html

The simplest method is to don a pair of headphones where one earpiece plays a tone of 400 Hz and the other plays a tone of about 404 Hz. This sets up a beat frequency of 4 Hz inside your skull. Your brain "tunes in" to this frequency and starts resonating at 4 Hz. Don't try to just pump in 4 Hz to both ears because your ears can't hear much below 20 Hz, so the effect would be wasted.

has anyone tried this or does anyone have any ideas/tips etc?

and also,

ThetaReactor said: I've tried such things before, using frequencies a few cycles apart in each ear to create the "beat" inside my head. I tried 4, 6, and 8 Hz, and I think the 6Hz was the most enjoyable. (Yes, that's Theta frequency. Aren't I The Man?) I won't pretend that it was as much fun as a chemically induced experience, but it's very mellowing. It's very conducive to meditative states.

according to the article clipping i posted above, what you experienced was a placebo kind of effect since it says "Don't try to just pump in 4 Hz to both ears because your ears can't hear much below 20 Hz, so the effect would be wasted."

If you mean that you used different frequencies to get your brain to 4, 6, and 8, then I am wrong. If this is the case, what frequencies did you use, and do u have any tips/experiences to share about reaching these states? I smoke weed but I have never knowingly done acid or shrooms or other hallucinogenic drugs. maybe that will effect what i feel/see if i do these audio tone things.

I wasn't actually making 4Hz sounds. I can wiggle my fingers at 4Hz, and I certainly can't hear it. I think I was using 400Hz as my base, with the other channel being 406Hz, for example. Maybe Meta should lay out some quadrophonic harmonics for us to trip to...

There are tapes called hemi-sync, which are supposed to help induce out-of-boby experiences from The Monroe Institute...I'm sure there's a web sight.

I tried it and got no effect whatsoever. Its probably more a meditation tool than anything. Ill stick to drugs.

people wanna hallucinate and they are so lazy and say ill stick to drugs. i have tried this audio fone stuff. it is important that you have headphones that cover your whole ears. i got a friend from nyc who sent me this tape, it put your brain into its theta state. the recording i have is trancedental, it starts off in alpha, then beta, for the first 5 minutes, and then it ventures into the realm of theta and holds you there for 25, after that you can stay there on your own. i was first interested in this when i was listening to pink floyd this one time and when it gets to song 6, us and them, i always fall into that state. it doesn't just happen, you have to let go of everything and well its a weird experience and if you've experienced it you will know what i am talking about but if not when it comes you will know and it will take you a while but when you get there you will know you are there. there are other things beside the audio stuff, things that produce the flicker effect. the got those glasses you can make, you get swimming goggles and you put red LED lights in em and you have to hook it up to a computer but that is just a hassle. haha even though i was talking about people being lazy earlier i have been building a dreamachine not that it is hard once you get all the parts (although i still need to find the right parts) you just need to do a little work. part of the reasonj i havent is im not in the right state of mind right now to be experimenting with the dreamachine. exploring your dreams and subciouness although it is very interesting can be dangerous. like if you are fucked up and unstable, which is said about any drugs, but id say stay away from it. kurt cobain had one before he died. he used it 72 hours at a time but he was fucked up anyways. people have linked dreamachines to suicide since the 70s. well that is my 2 cent about the whole subject haha

Hey, does anyone remember 'Return To Oz' when theres that fuckin machine thing they take Dorothy to with the reels of tape on and shit!!
All those fucked up kids in the basment and that!!
(do you think this is related-it fuckin sounds like it)


[This message has been edited by frontalobe (edited 12-04-2002).]

if you do reach these states, do you hallucenate? or just go into deep thought? are each of the states different?

quote:

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Originally posted by teabaghookie:
kurt cobain had one before he died. he used it 72 hours at a time but he was fucked up anyways. people have linked dreamachines to suicide since the 70s. well that is my 2 cent about the whole subject haha

---

you think that trying the 400 Hz and 404 Hz headphone thing pushes people to suicide? and what do you mean by "part of the reasonj i havent is im not in the right state of mind right now to be experimenting with the dreamachine. exploring your dreams and subciouness although it is very interesting can be dangerous. like if you are fucked up and unstable, which is said about any drugs, but id say stay away from it." ? what is the definition of fucked up and unstable to you?

and pyro918v said "it might set you off in a trance if it DOES work, and you wouldnt be able to snap out of it.. " where did you get this from? and to people who have tried this, how do you get out of the different mind states?

Well like CRaZyAmishMaN said u cant directly control your subconsciousness but its possible to "manipulate" it. An example would be that u repeat and repeat saying something u would remember related to something else and when the thing related to it comes in my mind u might think of the thing repeated- hope i explained the way its should be understood.

i wuz jus thinking, that if u became so mellowed out that you wouldnt be able to snap out of the mellow state of mind. but ive never tried that so i wouldnt exactly know..

quote:

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Originally posted by pyro918v:
i wuz jus thinking, that if u became so mellowed out that you wouldnt be able to snap out of the mellow state of mind. but ive never tried that so i wouldnt exactly know..

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oh.

and, should people just sit down and do the headphone thing? or do it while going to sleep? would it be a good idea walking down the street doing this or would you fall asleep? (that would look pretty funny.)

quote:

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and, should people just sit down and do the headphone thing? or do it while going to sleep? would it be a good idea walking down the street doing this or would you fall asleep? (that would look pretty funny.)

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you'd want to do it in a quiet place where you can relax. whether or not you fall asleep it'd be enjoyable either way.

walking around would be... distracting and you probably wouldn't get "into" it.

[lucid dreaming can be when you control it, but not necessarily.]

i may sound stupid, but are there any risks to using the headphones method with (for example) 400Hz in one ear and 404Hz in the other?

unbreakable trances and suicide(?) were brought up on this thread. also, teabaghookie said that you shouldnt do this if ur "fucked up and unstable" or "not in the right state of mind"... i dont really understand this.

i'm not a drug addict or anything (im not trying to insult anyone by saying that), so would it be safe and fun for me to try these electronic techniques?

i am a pot smoker so i am not anti-drugs or anything, but this sounds like an inexpensive way to expand my mind and maybe hallucinate so that is why i am asking so many questions.

quote:

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i may sound stupid, but are there any risks to using the headphones method with (for example) 400Hz in one ear and 404Hz in the other?

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no. it's just sound.
there is a limit to your "trance" [if you even get into one] seeing as soon something's bound to happen to snap you out of it.

i'd just expect a strong "meditative" state, nothing mind-blowing.

[i highly doubt you'd get any ego-shattering halucinations... so no need to worry about your present mental health.]

thanks for the help, CRaZyAmishMaN.

Originally posted by hartattack2188:
if you do reach these states, do you hallucenate? or just go into deep thought? are each of the states different?</b>

<i>you don't notice the other states but when you get to theta you will know</i>

<b>you think that trying the 400 Hz and 404 Hz headphone thing pushes people to suicide?</b>

<i>i am not exactly sure on the Hz needed to push people over the edge, i read this one thing though and it was listed on a scale even though it didnt have the Hz but it was like "euphoria" "satisfaction" "mild dissatisfaction" "depression" "suicidal" so there are definitly different levels and different frequencys put you in different states. i am not sure if it has to do with the actual chemistry of your brain or the things you see and realize while there, i think it is a combination of both.</i>

<b>and what do you mean by "part of the reasonj i havent is im not in the right state of mind right now to be experimenting with the dreamachine. exploring your dreams and subciouness although it is very interesting can be dangerous. like if you are fucked up and unstable, which is said about any drugs, but id say stay away from it." ? what is the definition of fucked up and unstable to you?</b>

<i>if things just dont feel right yanno, or if you had something happen in your life that screwed you up or a chemical imbalance. basically if you get depressed a lot or you are currently depressed i wouldn't mess with it until you get over it.</i>

<b>and pyro918v said "it might set you off in a trance if it DOES work, and you wouldnt be able to snap out of it.. " where did you get this from? and to people who have tried this, how do you get out of the different mind states?

haha i fucked up that post. what i mean hartattack about the "fucked up or unstable" is just if you get depressed a lot or you are currently depressed because this thing brings things out from your subcousiness, perhaps things you weren't meant to see, it is a kind of ignorance is bliss thing, but some people can take it and some can't. well everyone can take it, but it will effect some people in certain ways and possibly make them suicidal. like kurt cobain for instance, he had a really fucked up childhood and he might have killed himself anyways, i am sure the dreamachine amplified whatever it was that made him kill himself. and like i said, lots of people have linked it to suicide, basically you gotta be the judge of this, if you try it and it works out good, then good, but if things go bad i would stop. and about what you should do when wearing the headphones or however you get there, i do what is more comftorble to me and that is lay down, what ever you do that will relax you is good. heh one thing about that though, do it in the middle of the day because a lot of the time i do it with headphones laying down at night i end up falling asleep haha.

hmm i doubt all of that suicide and depression stuff - like someone said, it is just sound. it probably will make you happier or more relaxed than you are, not make u depressed or suicidal.

on another note, on these forums, use brackets [ ] instead of the html style tags such as these < >. that way, you can correctly bold and italicize text. to quote someones post, click the quote button on their post. (it is an icon of a document with a red arrow to the right of it.)

thats sort of funny, i wrote my reply to your first post while you posted your second post. i need to get some sleep now, but i thought of this a few minutes ago: what if you smoke weed (preferrably alone in this case) and then used the headphones technique? maybe that would make the headphones experience much better.

yea dude, weed is suggested, good weed. well with the whole depression thing, i havent experienced any depression from this or anything so i dont know , basically all i am saying is be careful. if things get fucked up during the time of the trance don't worry about that, that is part of it. but if you start to feel shitty all the time when you are not using it and you think it has something to do with it give it a rest.

also i wanted to mention that some people say that they tried this and it is just a bunch of bs and didn't work. you can't be impatient about this. you need to give it a lot of time and maybe even try a few times or a lot before anything even happens and you can't just be doing it waiting for something to happen, you gotta clear your mind or.. let your mind clear itself. haha you probably get the point by now

quote:

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Originally posted by teabaghookie:
you gotta clear your mind or.. let your mind clear itself. haha you probably get the point by now

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lol

This stuff could make people more prone to commit suicide, but theyd have to have strong tendencies in the first place.
When our brains are in a particular state of mind e.g Relaxed,Excited it emits certain frequencies.The headphones just basically 'put it in' to create the affect!

[yes, i agree that to'manipulate' the subconscious may have been a more appropriate word to use] but were all just human

oh, and CrazyAmish
-Your My Hero


[This message has been edited by frontalobe (edited 12-05-2002).]

at http://www.bwgen.com/

frontalobe's my No1

[This message has been edited by PuReNeUtRoN (edited 12-05-2002).]

quote:

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This stuff could make people more prone to commit suicide, but theyd have to have strong tendencies in the first place.
When our brains are in a particular state of mind e.g Relaxed,Excited it emits certain frequencies.The headphones just basically 'put it in' to create the affect!

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bullseye!

if you're really scared of getting "stuck" use something with batteries.

and one that doesn't contain a bunny-
[now there'd be a funny commercial- a guy flipping out from a little walkman-type and scrambling to turn it off but it doesn't...
do YOU have the bunnie inside?

[does no one understand american comedy anymore?!

well, maybe you don't have the "energizer bunny"...]

frontalobe-
*while crying*
YOU are everyone's hero!

[This message has been edited by CRaZyAmishMaN (edited 12-05-2002).]

quote:

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if you're really scared of getting "stuck" use something with batteries.

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What are you babbling on about?
PureNeutron wasn't being sarcastic hes sticking up for me! hes my mate.
Pure-, post a note will ya!

hi frontalobe!

CraZyAmisH
They dont call you that for nothin' do they?

Frankly, your irritating!

front, why not just delete the thread and go elsewhere?

No, its OK. I think i hear him crying. ;)

if you get stuck just open your eyes or shake yourself out of it, you still have physical control over your body

hey, i know this post was started on this mindsync thing but have you had a good experience with it? i was trying to figure out if you can change any music and change the frequency to induce the theta state.

yes you can.
You merge the music with the frequencies.
The volume of the frequencies can be as low as you want and will still work.

I downloaded it and experimented. I was pleased. I brought myself from Alpha to Delta and held it for 20 min. It's like conscious dreaming. I had very scattered thoughts. I think people just expect to much from these things. They don't get you high. They just relax you. The best part about this program is how you feel when your session is over. I just finished a 30min. high delta session (high delta is right when your falling asleep, but not quite asleep) and I feel energized and euphoric. These feelings seem very natural though, not drug induced.

P.s. I used a generated tone for a carrier wave.

[This message has been edited by Impulses (edited 12-07-2002).]

just felt like bringing this to the new peoples attention.