You seem to like discussing theoretical things. What do you think about the electrochemical reaction to produce MDA contained at this link: http://rhodium.lycaeum.org/chemistry/tcboe/chapter7.html
Look for the nitrostyrene part.

Well I think the concept of piperonal & nitroethane would be a major hurdly for most clandestine chemists.

The concept is the same as that for meth, aldehyde + nitro alkane = nitrostyrene

Because of that nitro ethane sales often require written orders and the records for sucjh trans actions must kept on file. If I'm not mistaken piperonal is also in the suspiscion spotlight, due to the mdma boom.

Now let's just hypothetically assume all the chemcials involved were legal and you already obtained the corresponding nitrostyrene.

The electrochemical reduction resembles the festerlytical method. Interestingly there's no mention of palladium or platinum catalyst just copper or mercury.

Of course the reaction is obviously a bit different from other festerlytic reductions because we're talking about a nitrostyrene and not an ester of ephedrine or PPA so perhaps such an active catalyst is not required.

I'm a little concerned about the corrosion of a copper cathode in a dilute solution of sulfuric acid. Dilute H2SO4 and copper or mecury will result in the formation of sulfates when there's no charge going through the cell.

If my memory serves me right, an alternative route would be reducing the nitrostyrene in a solvent with iron(III)chloride to get to the phenlyacetone moeity and then work it into the amine or methyl amine using the amalgam reduction or the leukart.

Of course if it's just the amphetamine analogue you're after and not the n-methylated version, it seems like the electro reduction is worth a shot.

Sorry it took so long for me to reply, I have been away for some days.

Piperonal can be made from piperine, wich can be extracted from black pepper. Wich in turn can be synthesized into beta-nitroisosafrole.

As far as nitroethane goes, this can be purchased at a hobby shop (same as nitromethane). My friend has a remote control car that runs on nitroethane (not nitromethane). If push comes to shove, I'll just have him get some for me.

I do have specifics on a rxn that uses iron fillings in acetic acid to produce MD-P2P. But I was wondering because with the cell no MD-P2P is required. And of course, I am after the methylated version (although having the analogue around could be useful to me as well).

I am not too good in discussing theoretical things, but how would one go about introducing a catalyst to the solution? This electrochemical cell sounds promising, but I don't want to spend any money for bullshit. I want to research first. Thanks for your time.

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[This message has been edited by Dyler_Turden (edited 25-10-2000).]

Based upon my impression of the article you referrenced they are using something between a Clark and a Nelson cell.

It's essentially the same as the Festerlytic cells. A porus divider like a terracotta flower pot is used. You could whip one up for pretty cheap I'm sure.

The literature doesn't necessarilly make make mention of any need for a catalyst. However it's my assumption that the copper or mercury present as the cathode is acting as such. The addition of the hydrogen atoms is most likely taking place on the surface of the metallic cathode as the gas is being evolved. So to answer your question... just putting the cathode into the cell introduces the catalyst into the solution.

I wish someone more knowledgeable than I would comment on the choice of metal suggested for the cathode.

The article states "The solution is placed in the cathode compartment of a divided electrolytic cell containing a mercury, copper or metal of similar nature as the cathode electrode. The anode can be made of lead."

That strikes me as odd because based upon my logic the only other metal of similar nature would be gold.

I almost wonder if silver, palladium or platinum would be a better choice.

Thanks for the reply Dyler. I guess the only way to see is too test it.
I was thinking (since you said terra-cotta flower pot or something of the like) of a way to construct a cell. Here is what I came up with:
Anode
Take one of those big rubber buckets (the kind you find at home depot, we got a couple in the yard to hold dog food and water), and drill a hole in the bottom near the side of the bucket. Place lead anode through hole and seal with nonconductive silicone gel. Leave a little sticking out of the bottom to attatch a wire.
Cathode
For the cathode you could place one of those flower pots inside the rubber bucket, and fashion some kind of lid to go over the pot that would hold the cathode in place.
All you would have to do is place the solutions in the appropriate place and pass current through (electricity isn't a problem, I tinkered with electronics way before I even took drugs).
What do you think? You seem to be the most knowledgeable person to discuss this with. Once again, thanks for your time.

That's pretty much the concept, a little big in my opinion but it sounds like you got the gist of it.

It's nothing more than two pieces of metal seperated by a porus divider in a solution that will conduct current.

Cool, thanks.